Hmm Here are some photos taken before the cabinets were entirely finished but you get the idea. The part I am referring to is the first part on the left side

As you can see that area is elevated to allow for seating; that is why we wanted to do something different with it such as the curve, but didn’t know how exactly it should look

If you curve it, do you still have the recommended 12-15” clearance for knees?

I think that having two (?) stools there would automatically lead to the occupants angling away from each other (following the line of the countertop), and not be very conducive to conversations.

I would skip it, personally.

Is the seating inside the kitchen facing out?

You needed counter space there at counter height. Lower it. That's just strange and really limits the functionality of the kitchen. No curve.

The really traditional and fussy raised panel doors will never work with an uber modern waterfall detail. That's chalk and cheese.

The seating space should be at the peninsula on the other end. That bar needs to be removed, and add in more cabinets there. As in large drawer bases. You really don't have good storage. And no real large drawers. No seating there. It's just wrong.

Definitely no curves. But what else is going to support your counter there? Where are the steel brackets?

Counter height is more comfortable and safer for seating for people of all ages, including kids. Since you’ll need to rework that to get in correct counter support, you might also think about lowering it down as suggested.

Cookskitchen,,,why would she need brackets? you can have a small overhang without support. 10" is usually the max. no steel brackets would be needed.

Nileen, why do you want the curve on this one spot? Just for something 'different'? Sorry, it just doesn't fit w/the rest of the design. Why didn't you just do regular cabinets on the end? what is the purpose of those shallow cabinets?

if you want seating there, the curved top is going to limit the accessible space. and can more than 1 person even sit there?

sorry, but maybe i'm confused. it just seems odd.

as mentioned, no long drawers. where do you plan on keeping large pans and pots? Large baking dishes and such?

I have 4- 36" drawers and they are barely ample enough for my baking/cooking paraphernalia. You have next to nothing!

Thanks all! Some clarifications:

Sammie J—the seating was intended for the inside but like Hillside House* said, we were questionable about the seating convenience too. That would only be done if it makes absolute sense too.

Live_wire_oak—- I appreciate your advice, but one thing we definitely wont be doing is lowering the counter height for this area. We are having seating space and a bigger overhang for counter space at the peninsula on the other end you are referring to :). The storage we have is a lot bigger and deeper than it appears and seem to be ample for our needs. I see what you mean about the modern look of a waterfall. The rest of our house is very modern now, its just the cabinet design that is not =/.

The Cook’s kitchen-these pics are before the cabinets are completely finished. There will be the correct support. Lowering it is not something we want to do to be honest. At this point the only changes we would Ike to make are with how the countertops will look and utilization of our Cambria Minera quartz

The span from left to right does not have any horizontal cross bracing. That is too wide to be unsupported. It needs a table apron and cross bracing at a minimum.

I’m also assuming that some overhang in the rear or end is wanted. That’s an assumption, but it’s what would make sense there. That will also need counter support.

Beth-good questions but actually the doors are misleading. Some look long And narrow, some look short and not wide but when you open up most of these doors, the spaces are HUGE with ample large gaps as well as shelving. If i was home i would take photos so everyone could understand but trust me there is soooo much space; its not what everyone is assuming it to be.

Emmarene, yes there are plenty of curved out pics, but not curved in unless they are like a rainbow with 2 curves on either side. It’s honestly just for aesthetics. Here is one example i found, although the shape doesn’t exactly match the one i roughly sketched

I was looking at this picture w/the cabs. If she wanted a radius cut (reverse radius?) she wouldn't need any support. (unless it's coming way out!)

this type, yes. a support would be added

Nileen. ok thanks for clarifying

No Problem Beth! The Cook’s Kitchen, thanks it will be supported!

for some reason the sample pic is not attaching, but basically leaving the cabinets alone and now just need to get the countertops done lol.

[Here is an example of an inward curve, different outer shape[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/reeds-landing-circle-traditional-kitchen-richmond-phvw-vp~124692272)

is this what you meant? forgive my scribble

I agree - no curve and no waterfall. I'd also do the same edge for all of the counter tops.

Yes Beth, that’s it! But if None of my options would look good to anyone, how do you guys think it should look instead? Assuming we cant change anything to the cabinet height unfortunately.

Side note related to the elevated cabinet height: above it was an entire wall that we knocked down. Behind the wall was a hallway which you can sort of see is still there, and behind that where you see part mirrors, is the entrayway to our house, with the living room on the opposite side (not pictured). we just felt it may look nicer to walk into our house and see a raised countertop area as the 1st thing, versus just regular sized counters. Not sure if that makes sense; wish i had photos of my whole house lol

You have busy floors and detailed cabinets ... I would keep the counters as simple as possible. Not every item needs to have a unique or special detail. You will end up with too much going on.

why not just do a regular overhang and waterfall side?

Why do you want people to sit facing away from one another? Or, if the want to face one another, even at an angle, they have to twist away from the counter. And the legs of the stools will get tangled.

Did you ever think that there's a very good reason that you can't find any pictures of such a counter on the web???

Thank you Beth! The 2nd photo you have (blue cabinets) is what we might do in that back peninsula area, if we dont do just a regular overhang there for more counter space. I’m not opposed to the idea of a regular overhang with waterfall for the 1st area in question (hopefully our traditional counters don’t kill the vibe since everything else is more transitional/modern ugh).

*Let me ask you—do you think it would look fine to do the over hang on the inside (where we had drawn the curve) to where we put seating like in the photos? not sure how much overhang to do on the opposite Side as well, since that is where our house entryway and living room are (and that is also why it would be odd to put the chairs on that side, right before the hallway)

Tatts, sorry for the misorder of my replies: i dont always get notifications while i am writing a post. I posted a photo example of the counter in green; you have to click the link. :)

Reeds Landing Circle · More Info

but I get the point you are trying to make. They will be both facing out looking towards those sitting in the living room perhaps. Or can turn away on the other side where the breakfast table/rest of kitchen area is?

Found photos of what I was talking about of what you see on the other side when you walk in! To the right Of these photos is the living and dining room which you can’t see. Straight ahead is breakfast area and patio. Please excuse the mess

I can’t believe I totally forgot to mention this. The curve idea came about first bc one end is unfortunately longer than the other. This was stupidity on our part for not making It even. Now it may be too late bc i don’t want to take the chance to crack our new porcelain tiles and then we would also have to Add a small piece of tile which Would look so odd.

so now Im wondering if we go straight from the longer side, is it ok? too far out?

Ignore the bar stools; these are not the kind we would use

to me this just looks odd. sitting in the actual kitchen. this portion will be higher, and come out farther than the countertop. The people who sit there, what are they looking at? Why would they sit there? If you're in the kitchen cooking or preparing, their backs will be to you, or they have to look off to their right to converse.

Why didn't you make that spot a peninsula? It would have look way better and been more useful. (maybe you still can?)

hey Beth, thought about a peninsula there, but then our backs would be facing the dining table and it would take up all the walk way area to get into kitchen and breakfast area like in the pic. https://st.hzcdn.com/fimgs/039294170c5254f8_9578-w240-h180-b0-p0--.jpg So we are putting the peninsula in the back (if we don’t do the elevated counter thing for serving). I see what you mean about odd seating in the kitchen—they would be looking into the dining table on the left and living room diagonal of them, so I just thought it would be a place to sit and converse with those in the living room. Maybe silly now.

Just get rid of the whole thing. It is weird, and not in a good way. If you don't want the extra storage of more cabinets there, rliminate the pony wall entirely and all of that. That is not a spot that anyone will ever sit in real life. Especially given the crescent moon shape that doesn't give any room to sit anyway.

It needs to go. Or put the wall back. The wall being gone is the root of all of your problems.

Thank you and everyone thus far!

we love the wall being gone, because it opened our home up a lot. it was a continuous wall with an old double swing door in between to enter into kitchen area. Very dated. We didn’t demolish the entire wall so that we could create those cabinets you see, and we kept that vertical piece initially thinking we can make something out of it, which now proves to be quite complicated given the lengths.

as i mentioned before, it’s too late now to alter anything with wall (for fear of damaging the tile and attaching an awkward tile where wall once met floor) and the cabinets because we spent a pretty penny on them recently and are not able to do any major changes like removing them or making them shorter And/or bigger

So really and truly my only options are to play around with how to design/template the countertop space, considering placement and current circumstance of working with what we got, which was my original question.

because we spent a pretty penny on them recently and are not able to do any major changes like removing them or making them shorter

I'm curious. Have you priced out two drawer bases vs the added price of a curved Cambria countertop with a waterfall? Because with Cambria @ $80-100 a square foot, just the vertical part of a waterfall in that space is going to cost +/- $1000. $1K spent on something that does absolutely nothing. An expense that you've already indicated you are willing to bear.

As seating, that location/ configuration just does not work. IF anyone ever sits there, the doors are likely to get damaged from feeting kicking into them. On an instinctive level, that spot isn't inviting. Nothing to look at as well as feeling vulnerable because your back isn't protected. (Watch where a dog settles down to snooze...a place where his back is protected and where he can see what is happening in front of him. Same thing, instinctively with us humans.)

I would either restore the wall, use the cabinets on the wall and install drawers bases...OR, leave the wall open and replace those cabinets with drawer bases. No disruption to the floor either way.

Those cabinets can be used somewhere else. Laundry room, office, bathroom, walk-in closet. Either side by side or stacked one atop the other.

Thanks ci_lantro, our fabrication cost is great with a reputable company and much cheaper than that range. No matter what design we do we have a locked price; unless it is a waterfall which would be few hundred more for us. But we agreed not to do a waterfall given that our cabinets are so traditional (although the rest of the house is contemporary/modern ). I now also realize seating probably wont be feasible, and now i wish i had bigger cabinets like you are suggesting. I will look into how much it would be to move those cabinets elsewhere and add bigger!

Add regular depth base cabinets and make them drawers.

The most expensive item in any renovation is the mistake that you try to work around. It will cost less to fix that now that after you try to compound it by adding more layers to it.

Any good contractor isn't going to crack tiles removing it. Even if that happens, you just grab a couple from the spare boxes in the garage and fix it. That's way cheaper than digging your heels in and creating something illogical and unused that just wastes money.

thanks vinmarks. Green designs, I hear you. Cracking is not my only worry, but also having to replace the floor with a awkward piece of tile, since our porcelain tile is a particular marble like design and large format, so it will be a visibly noticeable area when a smaller piece is added in the high traffic area.

Unrelatied Question*** Do most countertop installation companies charge $ to remove the old countertop, and if so approximately how much does this cost range from?

Most charges are a la carte. Most will charge separately for everything they can.

I agree that is a better look from the entry. Couldn't you still have that look with regular height/depth cabinets and keep the pony wall how it is? Just extend your backsplash to that wall section. That's probably what I would do to avoid the different counter heights.

However, if you really want or believe the best answer is to keep the cabinets as-is, I don't think it's awful. I could see my kids perching there while I cook dinner. Or my mom sitting there when she visits- close enough to watch but not so close as to hover. It's just an extra spot. Maybe turn it into a desk area.

Most homes have little quirky things and people find great uses for them. I would do more of a fluid curve than a direct shot from end to end to camouflage the end points being different. Or could you use a bracket/corbel on the short end to support the corner so you can do a straight across?

How would 2 people sit at the counter with it curving inward? Impractical!

I hear ya cpartist.

Thanks for all your suggestions justwantapool! Which look are you referring to as the better one from entry? Those are great ideas for designing the curve! To be honest I could live without it (I really wanted the waterfall which is out now) but another family member realllyyyy wants something like that so I’m just seeing if Its reasonable and how! I appreciate all the input and will definitely be looking into the cabinet situation.

LOL pirateroo,I agree a lot of (probably unnecessary) fuss..I think using it as a display or serving counter as such great ideas! We are actually talking about getting a dog once the renovations are all done—LOVE this suggestion. Lemonade it is! :) Thank you, you have a wonderful day as well

I just mean I like the looks better now than it would have with a full wall there or just looking like an extension of the kitchen counter (if you had lowered the wall even with the counter tops).

I think priateroo has a great point. It can become anything you want as your life changes. And a beautiful vase of flowers could be perfect!

To your original questions....how do you lay this out?

I would take a large piece of cardboard, foamboard, or something similar to mock up the shape.

Hi Nileen,

As a Kitchen Designer I would say check with your Cambria supplier on this design, countertops can be very tricky. Some countertop designs just don't work the way people think, the curve may not work well with the waterfall. You are spending a lot of money, Cambria isn't cheap, so be sure that your countertop will be sound. Your supplier/fabricator should know, generally if a design won't work they let you know and discuss your options.

It looks as though you will have seating there, if so the curve may have an impact on that. If I were you and your supplier okays it then I would go for a more subtle curve or an inverted curve (curving outward instead). You also need to think about your budget as this will add an extra cost (the curve) for fabricating your countertop.

I hope this was helpful

Oh ok gotcha, justwantapool. Thank you! :)

valid idea Roanoke woodworking, thanks

HU-628600249 Fabricator is coming tomorrow so definitely will discuss this further. Definitely helpful, thanks

Anyone know what this countertop is that Beth posted? I love it. (sorry for the thread hijack)

@Sheepla Fantasy Brown Polished

Thank you.