"with the own root, new stems will come up from the ground ? - aka, it has the ability to generate ? Whereas in grafted, am I basically at mercy on what buds have been granted onto the rootstock"... Not necessarily so. After couple years the majority of my grafted roses produce their own roots, from the part of the plants that is below ground but above the graft. I suppose this might be because I plants my grafts several inches below the soil line. (I notice this because I'm forever digging them up and moving them, not a good habit).

...however, don't plant a grafted rose too deep, either,because at least in my climate (Tuscany, Italy, about a zone 8),it will tend to root along the canes, thus producing multiple tiny potential plants,but all of this robs the "original " rose of vigour, and it will just languish! Otherwise, I think Seil basically covered it all,except, being in a zone 5, she didn't mention that in climates like mine with very hot, dry summers, own-roots have the advantage that, even if the top growth gets killed off by the heat, the roots may survive.

Ratdog, I plant mine about 3 or 4 inches deep but over time they seem to end up at soil level anyway. I very rarely have found that they've rooted themselves. Only a couple of my very oldest ones (think decades old) did that.

You're right, Bart. But that's sorta the same thing as our winter kill just from heat instead of cold.

7A where, please?

Seil -

Gardening has taught me alot about patience ;-)

When I see the pics of the bare root grafted, I can see the potential availability vs. OWN root. I wish there was some sort of GW approved consensus, LOL, so I can click/checkout my cart sooner. Too many answers I seek for this rose growing noob, on which are the correct/best decisions.

East End LI

The 'controversial' things on Gardenweb tend to be those where the Northeastern US disagrees from the rest of the country*. The way to handle those is to understand where you are, and understand where the people trying to give you advice are, and do your best to pretend you never heard what was said from people outside of your region. So you will get threads with 30 responses, where 27 of those responses would be ignored. If you don't do this, you will end up quite frustrated because the roses in your garden will never begin to look like those in the pictures.

*you want grafted

BTW, for those that respond graft, should I steer towards DA Direct - Dr Huey or Hortico - Multiflora rootstock

Not all the varieties I'm looking at will come own root from DA, so regardless, my final order will have some Dr.Huey regardless

I’ve been reading this forum for a year and still don’t know the difference between fortuniana/Multiflora/Dr Huey

#SlowOnTheUptake

The biggest difference between Dr. Huey and multiflora is pH preference. Multiflora prefers below about 6.5, while Dr. Huey prefers above that. Since liming to raise pH is easier than adding sulfur to lower it, Dr. Huey is a bit more adaptable.

Fortuniana is cold tender. It doesn't seem to be reliable on the east coast north of zone 8.

What Mad said. I prefer Dr. Huey here in the Great Lakes but it depends on your location. Have your soil tested and see what that says. If you're still unsure contact a local rose society and see what they think. They can be a great source of info specific to your area. If you get any freezing temps for any length of time stay clear of Fortuniana. I've heard that if you can get it through the first winter it will be OK but have never tested that and don't intend to. With the price of roses and shipping today and the wonky weather it isn't worth it to me.

And in east-central near-coastal NJ, I prefer R. multiflora rootstock, the second choice is own root.

Just circling back to this as I was reading bits-pieces on Heirlooms site. They seem to be very anti graft. They also infer/suggest that own roots LIVE longer than grated.

Sorry. One more noob question. With shrubs where one sometimes cuts *old wood* to allow new wood potential.

Can you do that with a grafted or the 4-6 primary grafted buds is the primary framework of the plant----aka, should I expect to see potential new stems from the bud union ?

Found a good example. See this video

See the many own canes from the ground vs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEQxATSnPRA

I believe this is a grafted rose with 6 /ish primary cane

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJUS3eFEHrk&t=469s

Isn't own root superior with the production of it's own canes from ground ?

I think own root live longer. Multiflora roots I read might be less tasty to gophers. Dr. Huey tolerates alkaline and dry conditions better. Dr. Manners says Fortuniana grafted plants need to be staked and aren't as hardy. All my roses in Alaska that survived 33 years were own root roses.

I will throw in my 2 cents worth here if I may. I am not seeing any particular varieties being talked about in this discussion, and it can make a difference. The old garden roses generally do well on either own-roots or as grafted. If they are grafted, they are not as able to come up all over the yard which gallicas seem to want to do. Many older HTs, FLs, and GRs were never meant to be on their own roots when they came out. All of them were sold as grafted plants, and some of them just do not do as well on their own roots. Also, I have had very few of the Austins do well on their own roots. Mine have done better as grafted plants where I could get them. Own-root plants take longer to mature. With the way things are now, sometimes a particular variety is only available commercially as an own-root. It may do just fine somewhere on Long Island and can be worth a try, but you might want to see if you could get an own-root and a grafted plant of the same variety to try them together and see if there really is a difference where you are. Good luck with whatever you decide.

When I was browsing Heirlooms site, my impression was they were very anti-graft, but I also sorta concluded because they were primarily selling own root , there was some slight bias.

Upon stumbling across the videos trying to see how shrubs look when grown, my initial concerns about own root were very clear when looking at how the ~many canes~ vs the grafted/budded/formed cane framework.

"can be worth a try, but you might want to see if you could get an own-root and a grafted plant of the same variety to try them together and see if there really is a difference where you are. Good luck with whatever you decide"

That sounds like a 3-4 year test minimum like most shrubs. Settle in on the 1st year, and then by year 3, they really take off. I've got a boxwood hedge that I chose knowing it grows 1-2" per year. It's like watching paint dry each year.

At this point in my life, I'm all about the instant gratification, albit gardening is teaching me patience. When buying certain shrubs, I'm buying the largest G I am willing to pay for the size.

My order is in with DA already and most of them are grafted. I might take some cuttings down the road to observe my own-root curiosity, but many have said the grafted will take off faster, and quite frankly, as much as I think I like the framework more of own-root, I'd rather have growth.

a1an, these folks have tried a lot, and learned a lot as a result. They are trying to help you avoid frustrating mistakes they have already encountered.

I would not be *too* concerned with this stuff just starting out, as the differences they point out might not be readily observed by someone who is new to roses.

I say this as someone who is also new to roses. I planted about 30 last year and had no clue if they were grafted, own root, etc and with nothing to compare them to, I was pleased with the results anyway.

It used to be there were a lot of Californians who were convinced that burying a bud union would cause the end of the world as we know it. It always reminded me of the Bullwinkle episode where the North Pole was somewhere around Fiji, and the tag line after all was returned to normal was "The Phillies are in the cellar, and all is right with the world". (Yay Greg Luzinski!)

However, if you live in a cold climate, like eastern Washington, and have it drummed into your head that you should never, ever bury a bud union, growing budded roses is going to be extremely difficult. It was a bit of a revelation to those people that the east coast had been burying bud unions since the beginning of bud unions, and the North Pole had not noticeably moved closer to Fiji as a result.

Once you start burying bud unions, one of the interesting things that can happen is that if a rose prefers to grow own-root, it can send out roots from the scion, letting the original root stock atrophy. It also seems to make it easier for the rose to create basal breaks from the bud union.

MG - re: the last post and graft points. I'm growing a climber on a trellis I'm having my local ironwork fabbing.

For comparison purposes, I am also planting a tree standard. DA says it's zone hearty so if the graft is the weak spot, I guess it would be interesting to see if they stand behind their 5 years - unless they blame me that I did not wrap the graft joint in wool blankets and burlap during the winter ;-/

I found a KEWL PIC and a KEWL thread....

1st thread in this thread speaks wonders. Is this common

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/a-grafted-rose-going-own-root-illustrated-dsvw-vd~3516496

For me it's very common, but don't take my experience as universal. I don't know what conditions would account for it. I bury my grafts really deep. Maybe it's my soil, which is acidic loam, amended with plenty of organic matter.