Tiny shower, can I steal space from attic if roof line is right there?
AJCN
5 years ago
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Comments (26)
AJCN
5 years agoRelated Discussions
snow on roof and attic insulation
Comments (11)to understand a little bit more about radiant barriers you should go to sites not selling products as mfg's give very biased info. sites like florida solar energy center and buildingscience.com will give you factual performance based info without the sales crap. this is the time of year that I get a LOT of calls about the radiant barrier install of laying on top of insulation. these companies come around and sell this install. I refer these calls to fsec's question and answer section on radiant barriers. they don't have to believe me..I'm not selling any product..but get factual advice..not just someone selling products. that they pitch to retired people really gets me going..but I won't get into that now! proper install of a radiant barrier adds R-10. not R-19 not R-23..R-10. with the proper install..on the roofline (techshield for new construction) or installed to undersides of rafters, with foil facing into attic space. will add R-10 to existing insulation value. While radiant barriers work well in hot climates for the extended cooling season..they do not perform for heating climates..ok sorry bout that..minimal performance for heating climates. They are not a fix all, and proper install is a bit more complicated than just rolling it out over existing insulation. My radiant barrier has been in place for about 5 years. my diy project. single sided foil on preforated denny foil guard paper. attached with button cap nails to undersides of rafters, foil facing into attic space. took me about 12 hours all totaled to install. (@ 10cents per sq ft material - my cost) I had a little wind damage (gable end venting) and was back in the attic once the hurricane had passed. cynic that I am...when I did my install I laid one piece of radiant barrier on top of my insulation by the gable end. another piece was laid on insulation mid point of my attic. this was back in 04 when I did my install. when I was doing my post hurricane repair last september..I took a look at the radiant barrier on the attic floor. the piece nearest the gable end..very dusty. the piece midpoint of my attic..also very dusty. I was only measuring dust buildup. But then I had to take it a step further.. took part of both pieces out of the attic. I laid both dusty pieces on top of a shed roof and went into the shed with my temp gun. the dusty radiant barrier didn't reflect heat nearly as well as the clean radiant barrier. there was a 20 degree temp difference between clean radaint barrier and dusty (and only 4 years of dust). So IMO those studies that say that in 5 years radiant barriers installed on the attic flooring loose 50% of their reflectivity are right on target. radiant barriers on walls..the problem is that you have to maintain at least a 3/4" air space between the foil and any other surface. it works behind bricks, but with hardi or vinyl,you would need to have furring strips between the foil and the siding. we do quite a bit of foam sheathing boards to the exterior..and most time use the foil faced sheating boards. the radiant barrier is useful (with the air space)on west walls, less so on east walls, and mininal on north south walls. the sun hits the roof all day, it only hits one wall at a time. so it isn't as great of a performance as attic installs. oh and fyi..all radiant barriers..single sided, double sided, foil bubble foil all perform the same. it is the foil that faces into the attic space that performs. the difference is like mine....10 cents per sq ft for single sided..30 cents per sq ft for double sided and 45 to 50 cents per sq ft for foil bubble foil. huge price difference (and just material..not labor) same performance. while I personally know the difference based on before and after in my own house, I use a software program that shows the benefits for houses with radiant barriers (again install install install). As we put our heating systems and ductwork in the hottest part of the house (yep..attic) the roofline install puts the mechanicals and ducts under insulation. this allows ductwork to perform better and extends life of mechanicals. not as well as locating both in the conditoned space..but there is a benefit. rileysmom..you would benefit more from air sealing before adding insulation. areas like recessed lights, cuts at bath fans and stove vents, around fireplaces etc. stopping warm air from escaping into the attic and cold air from entering the house from the attic. this is an air barrier. the tighter the seal the better. then insulate. insulation is the thermal barrier. insulation does not perform when air moves through it and insulationd does not stop air flow (unless it if foam insulation). stopping the air leakage before insulating is the best route. best of luck. we are a hot humid climate here..but we get some cold days. when I first got into construction I remember giving a ride to a friend who sold insulation. he would make notes of houses we passed that had no frost on the roof. curious soul that I am..I asked why. he told me that if the frost melts that the house needed attic insulation. I've found that to be true, but have also learned that house leakage and duct leakage cause frost to melt. if you can see areas of the roof that the snow melts from first..check insulation level, air leakage and duct leakage at these areas. houses tell us a lot..you just have to learn to listen and observe....See Moreattic roof fan and insulation for flat-roofed rowhouse
Comments (15)Thanks guys. Let me see if I can provide a clearer picture of what I'm working with. The house is over 100 years old--a brick row house in the center of a block. Most walls and all the ceilings on the third floor are plaster, with lots of lumps and bumps and a few small cracks, but mostly solid. There are no ceiling moldings. To call what is above this floor an attic is a an exaggeration. It is a space that ranges from about 3 foot tall at the front of the house to about half that at the back of the house (roughly 40-feet on that floor...first and second floors have a bigger footprint and do not need insulating between living space and roof.) There is a central air (newish high-velocity, narrow tube) system that snakes around the "attic". The blower is installed at the one access point there had been. This system serves ONLY the third floor and has two outlets in each of three small bedrooms and one in the tiny bathroom. The system serving the first and second floors is in a second floor closet. The insulation guys tell me that they can blow insulation in but will need to cut at least one new mansized hole in the ceiling to get in--possibly two, one toward either end. There are no recessed lights on the floor, and only three overhead lights at all. All other lights are wall brackets, wired from the floor up, rather than from the ceiling down. Of the three overheads..one was put in new by me, so isn't K&T. One the previous owner says was moved by them, so isn't K&T (But may connect in to K&T at the meeting of wall and ceiling. And one is the bathroom overhead, which can easily be checked. My electrician replaced the fixture there, so he should know what's above it. The roof is asphalt and fairly new (say 5 years old?) so, I'm not inclined to want to replace it anytime soon. I've gotten a quote for $950 to cut an access whole and blow in insulation. I'd have to pay someone else separately to fix up the access panel afterwards, probably adding another few hundred. Most neighbors don't even try to do much of anything with ventilation in their "attics", as they are all scared witless of cutting holes in their roofs. But I have found info on the Brooklyn Brownstoner blog about successful attic and whole house fan installations and one neighbor loves the whole house fan he has which sits in a sort of plastic cove on the roof. Unfortunately, he bought it with the house and has no idea who installed it. I don't intend to move in the near future, or even the more distant future. But I would like to make the third floor more habitable in the summer, especially since at some point in the next two years or so, I'd like to turn it into a separate apartment and rent it. Honestly, I seem to be finding such conflicting information and I'm so dubious about how knowledgeable folks you hire to do this stuff are about old and "out of the norm" houses that I really, really, do appreciate any and all help I can get here on this forum. Thanks,...See MoreInsulation in attic space in garage
Comments (7)Thank you both for your replies. I am in Michigan. John Manville makes a 2 inch foiled faced rigid foam board. I am concerned about the warmth being/staying in the bathroom not the garage. So perhaps because of my climate I could just use plain 2 inch XPS. But I was told to use the foil faced because it is fire proof. Mike and energy rater the garage temperature is the same. I wanted to use the foam board to reflect back and keep the bathroom warmer. The insulation company told me to place the foil face into the wall, that way any heat in the bathroom will reflect back into the bathroom. Boy this is so confusing to me. There is a heat vent in the bathroom under the vanity. I realize what you are saying about the supply problem in the bathroom, thank you for that. Interesting that I wouldn't see a difference in temperature in the bathroom with putting foam board on the garage side of the wall. I just had blown in cellulose in the attic and that is what the insulation guys told me,...to add the foam board to the garage wall that shares with it the bathroom wall. The other issue I have is the bathroom fan. The insulation company added the cellulose up to R49 and air sealed the attic...it is warmer on my second floor. BUT here is my question...The bathroom fan a new Panasonic when I first turn it on there is a whoosh of cold air that first comes out of it. I realize that there could be cold air sitting there at first on the attic side. BUT I felt it last night with the fan turned ON and there is a bit of cold air that circulates at the top of the fan. I stuck a tissue up there and it definitely sucks the air out of the room but it is weird. Needless to say it is it is chilly in the bathroom when taking a shower until the bathroom heats up from the steam of warm water from the shower. . Does anyone have any thoughts on that?? The duct from the bathroom fan is vented out to the roof and is an insulated duct. The only thought I may have is that it is not properly air sealed on the attic side. Any thoughts or ideas are most greatly appreciated. I am a new homeowner and am new at learning all of this. Your patience is most greatly appreciated....See Moreneed a plan! need new roof, hvac work, insulation, attic refinish
Comments (2)How tall is this attic space? How large are the joists in the "floor" area and what spacing do they have? How deep are the roof rafters and what are their spacing? What is the current attic ventilation? How would you plan to access the space with a stairway? There are certain minimum height requirements for living space, and the requirements for supporting live loads differ from those of just storage. Stairways have to have a certain rise and length for the height involved and eat up a lot of space. Where do you envision that space to come from on the second floor? Your project may be more involved than you think, or completely undoable depending on those factors. You need a site visit from a structural engineer, architect, and contractor to determine if what you want will even be doable. In the meantime, plain (not architectural) asphalt shingles are a fairly cheap item and well within most DIYers ability to install. Which means that they can be considered sacrifice at a later date if your other plans come to fruition. But, you need to take steps to protect your home from leaks, so needing a roof trumps all of the other "what ifs". As far as the ductwork goes, rigid ducting is far superior to flex duct. There is no need to replace it at all. Just make sure that the transitions are properly sealed and add additional insulation if you desire....See MoreAJCN
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