Venezuela has an election Maduro is elected, then

tony jelly

another guy jumps up to claim the presidency. This is straight from the CIA playbook so it looks like we are interfering once again.

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sunflower_petal(5a)

" when an opposition leader swore himself in as the nation’s legitimate president, cheered on by tens of thousands of supporters and a growing number of governments, including the Trump administration. "

Imagine if people had held a huge protest after trump was elected, wore special hats, and other governments said 'Well looks like the people don't really want you, trump, we support Hillary instead."

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Kathy

Maduro just gave US diplomats 72 hours to leave Venezuela.

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Maddie AtHome

Just like in the US, a minority screeching the loudest.


Imagine if people had held a huge protest after trump was elected, wore
special hats, and other governments said 'Well looks like the people
don't really want you, trump, we support Hillary instead."


It's not too late for that.

Betcha quite a few countries would.

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Maddie AtHome

Wasn't Trump blabbering about Venezuela some time ago?

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mrskjun(9)

Looks like Trump and Trudeau are quite happy about this.

"Opposition Leader Juan Guaido took an oath swearing himself in as Venezuela's interim president on Wednesday as hundreds of thousands marched to demand the end of socialist leader Nicolas Maduro's government.

Guaido, head of the Opposition-run Congress, had said he would be willing to assume the presidency on an interim basis with the support of the armed forces to call elections.

Within minutes, Global Affairs confirmed Canada will recognize Guaido in the role. U.S. President Donald Trump issued a statement doing the same, and encouraging other Western governments to recognize Guaido as interim president. "

http://axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/Article_82875.shtml

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sunflower_petal(5a)

Oh, so NOW you agree with Canada?

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mrskjun(9)

You don't sunflower?

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sunflower_petal(5a)

Answer a question with a question?

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mrskjun(9)

hmm I thought you were making an observation after reading my post. Go back and read it again maybe?

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sunflower_petal(5a)

You said " Looks like Trump and Trudeau are quite happy about this. "

So, do you support that sentiment? (Being happy about this)

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mrskjun(9)

I certainly do, don't you?

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Maddie AtHome



Trudeau and Trump elect Venezuela's new President.

The Trump administration told U.S.
energy companies it could impose sanctions on Venezuelan oil as soon as
this week if the political situation worsens, according to sources.

Of course, those that hope to profit from it will support it: Follow the money.

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sunflower_petal(5a)

I am not sure; I actually haven't followed the Venezuelan situation enough to make a judgment.

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tony jelly

sunflower: we want to be in control the people of Venezuela don't want this, but the one percenters there are on board. Chavez and Maduro don't want this either, consequently, they need to be moved on, surely you have seen this regime change drama played out before?

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mrskjun(9)

You do know that Chavez is dead right? A look at socialism from those who are living it.

"A number of South American countries, including Brazil, Colombia and Peru, have also recognised Mr Guaidó as Venezuela's legitimate president.

It comes amid mass protests against President Nicolás Maduro who has overseen years of economic freefall.

Hyperinflation, power cuts and shortages of basic items have driven millions of people out of Venezuela.

Mr Maduro was sworn in for a second term earlier this month, after a vote marred by an opposition boycott and widespread claims of vote-rigging."


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-46980913

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Zalco/bring back Sophie!

The Venezuelans I know are praying for this to work. These people are starving. They have no medicine. There are Venezuelans walking to other countries. Walking to Peru, Chile, Columbia. Their feet are broken by the time they reach their destination- probably well before hey reach their destination. These people are beyond desperate. I am shocked it has taken the US this long to act.

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Zalco/bring back Sophie!

Here is what the Center for Strategic and International Studies from Georgetown has to say about Venezuela as a hub of state sponsored organized crime. Maduro is a criminal. He is running a Narco State and his people are paying with their lives. There is nothing legitimate about that government.

https://www.csis.org/events/venezuela-narco-state

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tony jelly

It is really hard to keep things on topic over here. My post was about democracy and kjun could have mentioned the democratic choice of Trump, because, right or wrong the people chose Brexit, Maduro and Trump (there are others.) So in this context is a people uprising relevant, even if it appears on the surface as an oxymoron? Can we vote this way today and another way next week?

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mrskjun(9)

If the Maduro election was rigged as the people claim, it would be a bit different than Brexit or Trump.

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Kathy

Not much different. Putin likes Maduro too.

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cait1

Except America is a Republic not a pure democracy.

Why can't people remember that?

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cait1

Have been reading more on Venezuela...

In 2015, the opposition won a 2/3 majority in the National Assembly. Unhappy with the loss, the losers, Maduro's cronies, started passing all sorts of legislation and packed the high court with 13 more Maduro loyalists - it had been packing the court since Maduro took over.

Then in 2017, Maduro decided to create a mirror National Assembly calling it the Constituent National Assembly and through what many people believe to be a fraudulent election, packed the CNA with Maduro loyalists... or sycophants if you prefer that term.

Then Maduro's packed high court declared the legitimate National Assembly dissolved in March 2017 and forbade it to remove judges - though that didn't last for long (decision was reversed on April 1), but long enough for riots to break out and people getting killed.

So Venzuela boasts 2 Congresses and 2 Supreme Tribunals of justice, one in exile in Panama after Maduro expelled 33 magistrates from the country.

I'm not sure why anyone would support a wannabe dictator like Maduro, but it takes all kinds.

Some of the articles I read:

https://news.yahoo.com/venezuelas-maduro-calls-vote-constituent-assembly-210525893.html

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-politics-idUSKBN0U626820151223

https://www.vox.com/world/2017/5/1/15408828/venezuela-protests-maduro-parliament-supreme-court-crisis

https://www.jurist.org/news/2018/11/exiled-venezuela-justice-department-issues-red-notice-for-arrest-of-president-nicolas-maduro/

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Maddie AtHome

It is really hard to keep things on topic over here.

Yep, constant attempts at derailing. The solution is to SOB, those attempts can be automatically disregarded.

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MissMyGardens
  1. Not one of all the stated reasons stopped the Trump Campaign from taking $500K contribution from Venezuela to the Inauguration Committee.

  2. We wouldn't give a crap about Venezuela if it didn't have oil.

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GOD

The election of Maduro was full of fraud and foreign meddling , just like Trump's

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mrskjun(9)

Thanks Zalco. You shed some light on the if Trump is for it, I'm against it narrative. In Venezuela they have already eaten the family pets and are now eating the zoo animals. How many of you want socialism?

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batyabeth

kjun, socialism is a broad brush. Sweden, France, and many other European and non-European countries have socialist -type systems, and you know it. (They also have national health insurance, that great socialist bugaboo tragedy oh no oh no). These South American countries are in deep peril due to hundreds of factors, not "because they are socialist". Mostly it's because they are utterly corrupt, with oligarchies and grifters having grabbed power.

Hmmmmm............

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tony jelly

There were demonstrations in Caracas today; they were protesting this unofficial claiming of the presidency. among the chants was "Yankee, go home." Not heard since the second WW.

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tony jelly

Do Trump's threats to Maduro mean nothing over here? We Americans are amazingly narrow in our view on foreign policy, but Pompeo has ordered diplomats that Maduro expelled to stay put. Now, what if Maduro takes them hostage and this scenario land in the incapable hands of Trump and Bolton? Both Russia and China support Maduro, but no, the wall and the kids taunting a native are way more important.

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barncatz

My jaw dropped when I read about Pompeo's order. (My niece's husband works for the State Dept, most recently in Central America.) I can't imagine that this is safe for those State Dept workers and their famiies. Especially now that the military has supported Maduro.

I don't feel like I have a handle on any of this.

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mrskjun(9)

batyabeth, go read indepth about those governments. They are not socialist. France makes a claim of socialism but is really crony capitalism.

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tony jelly

People in danger, so let's bang on about our misconception on Socialism.

If I remember tightly you were all over the Benghazi thing for precisely the reason we didn't protect our diplomats abroad.

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mrskjun(9)

“We call on the Venezuelan military and security forces to continue protecting the welfare and well-being of all Venezuelan citizens, as well as US and other foreign citizens in Venezuela,” Pompeo said in a statement on Wednesday evening, adding the US “will take appropriate action to hold accountable anyone who endangers the safety and security of our mission and its personnel.”

To bad Hillary and Obama didn't hold anyone accountable in Libya huh?

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tony jelly

kjun, have you any idea what this threat to a sovereign country means?

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MrsM(6)

I saw earlier tonight that China, Turkey and Putin are on board with Maduro. And yeah, I wish we'd bring our diplomats home from there pronto.

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barncatz

Will we hold them accountable like we held MBS accountable for Kashoggi's torture and murder?

Pompeo ignoring that Maduro currently has the power, pretending he doesn't, then daring Maduro to do something with our diplomats as the pawns, not big talker Pompeo, is appalling. This is our chief diplomat? Crikey.

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ubro(2a)

batyabeth, go read indepth about those governments. They are not socialist. France makes a claim of socialism but is really crony capitalism.

in batyabeths defence she did not say those governments were socialist, she said they had " have socialist -type systems,"

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Maddie AtHome

This is straight from the CIA playbook so it looks like we are interfering once again.

Rubio.

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tony jelly

Don't forget the 'why?' OIL

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Maddie AtHome

Yes. As always, follow the money. Blood money.

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tony jelly

Venezuela has more oil than Saudi Arabia, when Chavez thought it would be a good idea to share its wealth we went into character assassination mode instantly with undercover operations to try to enforce regime change. This is an all too familiar story to be newsworthy, and now this pseudo coup has happened we are up for it, together with the oil greedy capitalists in Venezuela.

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MissMyGardens

I'm struck by the similarity to Cold War actions of using other countries as proxy wars for one-upmanship between US & Soviet Union. Now it seems Venezuela is just the latest in US strategic and economic proxy war against China and Russia who are agnostic about anything on principle. If it makes money for advancement of national power then China's there as in Africa. If it makes projection of power to tick off the US then Putin's there as in Crimea and Ukraine...and Venezuela which is far outside their geographic sphere of influence. What seems like such a visible "backslide" to those days is not welcome at all.

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Cookie8

I was also curious about refineries. There are some pretty interesting articles out there. Venezuela is looking to expand refineries in 2021. Major players (Chevron, Citgo, Valero and the like have all declined comments in this matter.) It's also crazy the US wants to put someone (Juan Guaido) who is even less popular than Maduro? Also, how is this going to work with loans. Venezuela owes a lot of money to China and Russia. The US sure is taking the aggressive route. There must be something very big in it for them. Not the people of the US just a select few - like Iraq (wink).

I wish I was more informed on Venezuela because I find most of this very confusing but the norm, really. I would love to just say it's just about the oil but I don't know enough to outright say it - so I strongly hinted! I do know it is not for the people of Venezuela.

ETA: I also saw an article, yesterday, that the Bank of England won't hand over Venezuela their gold. Granted, I have no idea how easy this would be but an outright denial? Whhaaaat?

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Kathy

Putin has been courting Venezuela for a while. I think he might be doing the same in a couple CA countries. He definitely is looking to expand influence and power and Trump is complicit. He hasn’t even applied the sanctions for the poisoning Congress approved 3 mo ago.

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tony jelly

No, it is not only about oil. The reason we don't like democratic countries is that they might usurp power we feel is rightly ours, it is far easier if we have a puppet in charge rather than someone democratically elected. We 'helped the people' in Iran, Palestine, Brazil, Iraq, Libya, Vietnam etc. etc. and Venezuela sealed its fate by standing up to the US. The problems that the savior Trump wants to storm in and solve would solve themselves if we stopped interfering.

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