Trump concealed details of conversations with Putin

GOD

Trump has gone to extraordinary lengths to conceal details of his conversations with Russian President Vladi­mir Putin, including on at least one occasion taking possession of the notes of his own interpreter and instructing the linguist not to discuss what had transpired with other administration officials, current and former U.S. officials said.

Trump did so after a meeting with Putin in 2017 in Hamburg that was also attended by then-Secretary of State Rex Tillerson. U.S. officials learned of Trump’s actions when a White House adviser and a senior State Department official sought information from the interpreter beyond a readout shared by Tillerson.

The constraints that Trump imposed are part of a broader pattern by the president of shielding his communications with Putin from public scrutiny and preventing even high-ranking officials in his own administration from fully knowing what he has told one of the United States’ main adversaries.


Con't below

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GOD

As a result, U.S. officials said there is no detailed record, even in classified files, of Trump’s face-to-face interactions with the Russian leader at five locations over the past two years. Such a gap would be unusual in any presidency, let alone one that Russia sought to install through what U.S. intelligence agencies have described as an unprecedented campaign of election interference.

Special counsel Robert S. Mueller III is thought to be in the final stages of an investigation that has focused largely on whether Trump or his associates conspired with Russia during the 2016 presidential campaign. The new details about Trump’s continued secrecy underscore the extent to which little is known about his communications with Putin since becoming president.

Former U.S. officials said that Trump’s behavior is at odds with the known practices of previous presidents, who have relied on senior aides to witness meetings and take comprehensive notes then shared with other officials and departments.


Washington Post

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leona_2008

It would be very gratifying to know that Mueller has interviewed the interpreter and Tillerson.

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Olychick

There is likely no end to the things he's tried to conceal. Hopefully Mueller will shine a light on many of them.

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jn3344

He really is a foreign intelligence asset. How on earth did we elect o traitor as president? People get life in prison for less.

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ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9

It hardly seems to matter, at least not to Republicans. Really amazing, and I don't think even they can explain it, even though they claim to be patriots.

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catticusmockingbird





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catticusmockingbird



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Ziemia(6a)

So, the truth of this part is doubted by Trump supporters?

"taking possession of the notes of his own interpreter and instructing the linguist not to discuss what had transpired with other administration officials, current and former U.S. officials said."

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Becca Reese

I bet there are tapes of Bill Clinton and Loretta Lynch's tarmac chat. Not only that, but I bet Lynch altered them.

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Ziemia(6a)

Here's more from the long article:

But Trump and Putin then met for two hours in private, accompanied only by their interpreters. Trump’s interpreter, Marina Gross, could be seen emerging from the meeting with pages of notes.


Alarmed by the secrecy of Trump’s meeting with Putin, several lawmakers subsequently sought to compel Gross to testify before Congress about what she witnessed. Others argued that forcing her to do so would violate the impartial role that interpreters play in diplomacy. Gross was not forced to testify. She was identified when members of Congress sought to speak with her. The interpreter in Hamburg has not been identified.

During a joint news conference with Putin afterward, Trump acknowledged discussing Syria policy and other subjects but also lashed out at the media and federal investigators, and seemed to reject the findings of U.S. intelligence agencies by saying that he was persuaded by Putin’s “powerful” denial of election interference.

Previous presidents have required senior aides to attend meetings with adversaries including the Russian president largely to ensure that there are not misunderstandings and that others in the administration are able to follow up on any agreements or plans. Detailed notes that Talbot took of Clinton’s meetings with Yeltsin are among hundreds of documents declassified and released last year.

Trump has concealed details of his face-to-face encounters with Putin from senior officials in administration

https://wapo.st/2Fyrqtt

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elvis

Because the president never uses one word when he can use about 100. He doesn't care about releasing conversations with heads of state, and said so. His answer was, unsurprisingly, much, much, much, much longer than that tweet.

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momj47(7A)

As a result, U.S. officials said there is no detailed record, even in classified files, of Trump’s face-to-face interactions with the Russian leader at five locations over the past two years.

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momj47(7A)

Sorry, elvis, but if the answer is "no", your Mr. Trump would have said "no"'

Nice try, though.

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catticusmockingbird

The problem for Trump is the Times and WP understand him all too well. Too bad his supporters don't.





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catticusmockingbird



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nopartyghost

As usual, because they can't defend Donnie dementia's actions they try to deflect to others. Doesn't work. Fat boy is the traitor who is operating under Putin's direction.

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elvis

Why would a subpoena be needed? Just ask.

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Ziemia(6a)

And, there's the 'reluctance' of the 45 WH to sanction Russians:

How should we view "the Trump administration’s move to lift sanctions against companies controlled by an influential Russian oligarch, intensifying a new line of scrutiny of the administration’s handling of Russia policy."?

""""""
The 45 has negotiated a deal to lift the sanctions on the business empire of the oligarch, Oleg V. Deripaska. Because of the flawed idea it's OK that he retain a majority interest - because he's selling *some* of his interest.

And those businesses have business in the USA.

Read more here: https://nyti.ms/2H7dDft

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cait1

So leftists were outraged when the Podesta/DNC emails were released because they exposed their side's tactics and those things should have been kept 'confidential', knelt in adoration before the most opaque BO and now cry for 'transparency'?

ROFL

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Ziemia(6a)

Maybe some leftists were outraged because DNC tactics were revealed.

Most weren't. Same for most Dems. And many others.

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GOD

Trump says he's not hiding anything but he's not releasing anything "trust him"


But he is a crook.

The democrats will have to subpoena the translator, soon or later, IMO

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momj47(7A)

I bet there are tapes of Bill Clinton and Loretta Lynch's tarmac chat. Not only that, but I bet Lynch altered them.

So you are comparing a meeting between a former President Clinton and a former AG Lynch, impotent and irrelevant, with secret meetings between current "presidents" Trump and Putin, who could each destroy the planet with the push of a button.

Wow, just wow.

Maybe the right wing needs to get it's heads facing forward for a change.

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Annie Deighnaugh

So leftists were outraged when the Podesta/DNC emails were released...

How soon they forget that a good chunk of Watergate which brought down another gop presidency was about having burglars break into the DNC and steal documents. There is no difference between that and hacking DNC email servers to steal their documents, including the DNC analytics.

...The Mueller indictment also revealed, for the first time, that the Russian hackers were able in September 2016 to break into a cloud-based system hosting data for the Democratic National Committee and thus gain access to the party's "analytics" — i.e., the critical data that campaign strategists use to determine whether to target ads, ramp up get-out-the-vote or registration drives and send the candidate (or, in the infamous case of Clinton and Wisconsin, where to not send the candidate.)....

The indictment doesn't suggest the data was altered, nor — according to experts — would that have accomplished much. But the access could have been critical for revealing — either to the Russians, who we now know were mounting their own extensive social media campaign to aid Trump, or to any GOP campaign officials colluding with Team Putin — where to focus attention to counter the Democrats.

Remember, one of the great mysteries of the Trump-Russia scandal has been how did the so-called Russian trolls — creating divisive Facebook postings on race or immigration, or boosting Trump or third-party candidates like Jill Stein who took votes away from Clinton — know which states to target? Or perhaps more damning, did the Russians successfully convey some of the purloined analytics to the Trump campaign so it could adjust its strategy?...

In early October, the Trump campaign shifted its ad strategy to focus on some of the states that would prove critical to his Electoral College win, such as Pennsylvania and Ohio. De-emphasized were states such as Florida and North Carolina.

Jason Miller, a key aide in Trump's 2016 campaign, announced on Twitter in early October that "our data-driven campaign is shifting resources from over-performing markets to new battlegrounds." Those battleground states also included Wisconsin, where Trump purchased ad time and campaigned despite experts claiming it was a waste of time....

In the waning days of the campaign, an unexpected voice resurfaced to predict that Trump's new battleground state strategy would result in an upset victory. That would be Paul Manafort, who'd been ousted as Trump's campaign manager in late summer 2016 and who's now waiting to stand trial on money-laundering charges tied closely to his years of work for pro-Putin interests in Eastern Europe. Source

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MissMyGardens

Exactly how are other officials and/or future Presidents and their administrations supposed to be prepared for subsequent meetings with heads of state. Are they supposed to depend on foreign heads of state telling them what was discussed and possibly agreed to with Trump?

Aside from the short sighted idiocy of destroying professional linguists' records of these head of state meetings there's always the process of having all presidential records kept in the National Archives for obvious reasons.

[Interpreters also serve an essential role as record-keepers, taking
notes that end up in the National Archives
, Obst said. Of course,
interpreters are not always asked to take notes. It’s unclear who the
U.S. interpreter in Friday’s meeting was and whether he or she took
notes, and the White House did not respond to a request for comment.
While such a record would not immediately become public, it does create
an account for posterity.
Within an hour after the Putin-Trump meeting,
differing accounts had already begun to emerge about what the two men
discussed.]

Since Trump claims he had destroyed whatever written/recorded transcript the linguist made nobody but Putin and Lavrov know what what said and they shouldn't be the official source for the flippin United States.

Remember there is a treasure trove of accountability and understanding of what has been recorded contemporaneous to real life events. What's been found in declassified records in National Archives have been invaluable in understanding what really happened in our history, gives context to decisions made and any number of salutary reasons.

Are we just supposed to accept a hole in our recorded history or oral agreements with Russia or other countries because Trump doesn't have a clue about history and doesn't care about continuity of leadership or history unless he's the author?

Reagan had a sense of purpose and history regardless of his politics. When he did things like take a walk with Gorbachev without linguists he made sure to record diary entries of conversation and submitted them for archival use in addition to his other written accounts shared with aides at the time.

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Annie Deighnaugh

In other words, the russians hacked the DNC and stole documents which the trump campaign later paid multi million dollars to Cambridge Analytics who helped organize the material, which wikileaks leaked at times advantageous to the trump campaign.

At the same time, the russians hack accessed the DNC analytics which sets their campaign strategy. Not only were the russians then very specifically targeting audiences with their disinformation campaign, but, coincidentally, the trump campaign suddenly changes *their* strategy.

I don't believe in coincidences like that.

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Annie Deighnaugh

Not having any record of what was said is even worse than that as it

a) leaves doubt as to what was or was not agreed to, about which putin et al can later lie and say trump agreed to things he didn't

b) sets the president up to be even further compromised, if he lies about what transpired at the meeting, or if he gave away secrets he shouldn't have

c) makes it impossible for any policy changes that may have been agreed to to be implemented by the administration as there is no way of sharing what needs to be done with the rest of the staff

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Annie Deighnaugh

I just hope that the folks in the CIA are smart enough to figure out that if trump has set up a back channel communication with russia via the US embassy in moscow, which is now secured by the kgb, that they are somehow capturing those communications as evidence.

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GOD

Annie, I'm hoping that trump is being fed fake information to be given to the Kremlin

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d_gw

Trump's off the record meetings with Putin were unfathomable when they happened but were drowned out by Trump's daily chaos. For some perspective imagine if Hillary or Obama did the same.

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Ziemia(6a)

Don't ignore Manafort supplying polling data to Someone connected to the Russian disinformation work (which hasn't stopped).

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tony jelly

While under investigation for colluding with Russia, Trump has a secret meeting with Putin. Trump will not reveal what was said or answer a direct question about the result, or any agreements reached in the meeting. He is not very good at negotiating so we can only assume the worse when honesty would clear this up once and for all.

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MissMyGardens

Not having a linguist in the room to create a record is act of omission. Destroying evidence in form of record is act of commission.

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chase_gw

" He doesn't care about releasing conversations with heads of state, and said so. "

..........and there is no reason not to believe he is telling the truth.

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momj47(7A)

He doesn't care about releasing conversations with heads of state, and said so.

By law, like his tweets, Trump's conversations are a matter of history and national security, and ultimately public record, and the National Archives is required to have records of every meeting and every conversation

Dear gawd, do you think this man will actually have a "library"? Hahahaha

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GOD

Maybe a prison library , mom

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momj47(7A)

Perfect place for a Trump library.

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leona_2008

What I wouldn't give to have a time machine. I'd go back and talk to current-day trump supporters and tell them about a hypothetical future president who would hold secret meetings with Putin and ask how they'd feel about that.

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vgkg Z-7 Va(Z-7)

I saw that interview and thought that I heard it wrong, but he really did say "I think it's the most insulting article I've ever written".

So he really confessed, even if he insulted himself.

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GOD

Trump's reply is designed to up the outrage of the right,not to answer the question

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momj47(7A)

He did confess. Pretty shocking, isn't it

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elvis

Let's see those transcripts. I'm looking for something like, say:

Did Obama Pledge ‘More Flexibility’ Toward Russia After the 2012 Election?

A hot microphone picked up President Obama telling Russian President Dmitri Medvedev he would have more flexibility to negotiate on issues like missile defense after the 2012 election.

Snopes rating: TRUE

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/obama-more-flexibility-russia/

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Annie Deighnaugh

Did Obama Pledge ‘More Flexibility’ Toward Russia After the 2012 Election?

First he said it, he didn't *pledge* it...puffery.

Second, obama was and still is on our side...trump is not.

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elvis

Sure annie, sure.

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jillinnj

I bet there are tapes of Bill Clinton and Loretta Lynch's tarmac chat. Not only that, but I bet Lynch altered them.

Oh, was Clinton President at the time? No? Didn't think so.

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jillinnj

No source. No attribution.

Say, I thought we had NO IDEA what Trump and Putin talk about, now we know that Trump is concealing details. Details? What details?

Read much? The source is there if you would just read it. Of course, I get it. Confirmation bias won't let you.

You're right. We have NO IDEA what Trump and Putin talked about because he took the interpreter's notes. Not rocket science. What part of that don't you get?

If you didn't know about this news story, I suggest you expand your news source. It was widely reported but probably not by Fox or Brietbart.


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dockside_gw

The very act of destroying the notes tells me that they contain something very damning if they were ever revealed. Why else would he destroy them? It is even against the law - but that has never stopped Trump in the past. His destroying them cannot be spun, in any manner, in a positive way.

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momj47(7A)

he would have more flexibility to negotiate on issues like missile defense after the 2012 election.

So what

Obama didn't climb into bed with Putin and .......... well ...............

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Izzy Mn

I would think that most papers from Presidents were preserved for the records. Destroying notes goes against how most presidents preserved work, even confidential work. I'm talking about this because of notes interpretor destroyed at the request of Trump.

Story on the staff whose job it WAS to preserve such papers in the White House.

(They were fired by the way, given no explanation, see end of article)

Paragraph from article:

Trump 'repeatedly tears up official documents' that should be preserved, leaving staff to tape them back together

Under the Presidential Records Act, the White House must preserve all memos, letters, emails and papers that the president touches, sending them to the National Archives for safekeeping as historical records.

Article

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/trump-official-documents-destroy-white-house-staff-repair-presidential-records-national-archives-a8392856.html

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elvis

Obama didn't climb into bed with Putin and .......... well ............…

How do you know?

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catticusmockingbird

"Special counsel Robert S. Mueller III is thought to be in the final stages of an investigation that has focused largely on whether Trump or his associates conspired with Russia during the 2016 presidential campaign. The new details about Trump’s continued secrecy underscore the extent to which little is known about his communications with Putin since becoming president.

After this story was published online, Trump said in an interview late Saturday with Fox News host Jeanine Pirro that he did not take particular steps to conceal his private meetings with Putin and attacked The Washington Post and its owner Jeffrey P. Bezos.

He said he talked with Putin about Israel, among other subjects. “Anyone could have listened to that meeting. That meeting is open for grabs,” he said, without offering specifics."


Then why did he take the interpreter's notes? Sure doesn't pass the smell test.

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Kathy

Trump has a lie for every question.

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elvis

What are notes for, cmb?

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Ziemia(6a)

Ask the person who took the notes.

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elvis

You misunderstand, ziemia. What are notes for, i.e., what is the purpose of taking notes?

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d_gw

More Trumpster nit picking about minor details while completely avoiding the point. Who knows? We weren't there.

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Ziemia(6a)

No, I understand.

I did not misunderstand.

PS in case anyone doesn't understand about interpreters taking notes...

http://termcoord.eu/2017/04/how-note-taking-provides-you-with-better-interpreting-skills/

And to learn about simultaneous vs consecutive...

https://www.helloglobo.com/blog/simultaneous-vs.-consecutive-interpreting-whats-the-difference

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Embothrium(Sunset Climate Zone 5, USDA Hardiness Zone 8)

Trump's operating like he apparently always has. Which is what a component of those who gave him to the rest of us in 2016 was hoping for - no big disappointment or seeing of the light should be expected from them anytime soon.

Except disappointment that he has not gone far enough with the damage.

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Annie Deighnaugh

Can't the house subpoena the interpreter now? If it's an issue of national security, they can do it behind closed doors...

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GOD

I believe the house can subpoena anyone, but the WH can object if it's a "private" matter. Objections don't mean that much

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elvis

Sigh. All right. I'll speak s - l - o - w - l - y.

Notes are taken so that they can be read/reviewed. Perhaps the president wished to review the notes. This came up as a result of cmb's comment: Then why did he take the interpreter's notes?

When I "take" someone's notes, it's so that I can review them.

All this is assuming that the president did, indeed, "take the interpreter's notes". Like all of you, I wasn't there either.

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chase_gw

Elvis that may be why you take notes but it is not why interpreters/ translators take notes.

Interperters take notes because they have to wait until the person they are translating finishes their thought and pauses before translating and translating from memory is not desirable for obvious reasons.

Note taking is a significant part of translating and is part of their education. They have very specific techniques on how to take effective notes.


http://termcoord.eu/2017/04/how-note-taking-provides-you-with-better-interpreting-skills/

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elvis

That's interesting, Chase. Thanks. I did not know that. I never thought of notes in that context.

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macimom

trump would not read or be interested in any notes other than something like this...

"Trump is wonderful"

"Trump is the smartest man in the room"

"Trump has the best hair"

"Trump is bigly"


He reads nothing but his own name.


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chase_gw

After posting about why interpreters take notes I got to thinking what it must be like to interpret Trump. Can you imagine figuring out what he was saying, taking appropriate notes and then translating it in almost real time ? OY !!!!





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elvis

...and you'd have to do it fast and for extended periods of time, hoping for him to pause for a drink of water...

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tony jelly

covfefe in Russian is fecove as Putin said to Trump a number of times.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

For all his proclamations of innocence in Russia, Russia, Russia, Trump sure acts as if he were guilty as sin.

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chase_gw

." .....and you'd have to do it fast and for extended periods of time, hoping for him to pause for a drink of water..."

.

.........and you wonder why they take notes ?

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chase_gw

Nancy, even Gowdy said that........If you are innocent , stop acting so guilty !!!!!

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cait1

@ Annie

In other words, the russians hacked the DNC...

The DNC wasn't hacked, it was a leak, meaning some with access to the servers downloaded the emails. Are you saying the DNC colluded with the Russians by hiring some?

When will people learn the difference between a hack and a leak?

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chase_gw

Cait, that is an untrue statement.

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elvis

.........and you wonder why they take notes ?

If you're joking, hahaha! ;D

If you're serious, that wasn't me.

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vgkg Z-7 Va(Z-7)

"For all his proclamations of innocence in Russia, Russia, Russia, Trump sure acts as if he were guilty as sin."

Will there be trumpsters here mocking that RRR chant any longer?

Russia, Russia, Oh Yeah Baby, Russia!

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Annie Deighnaugh

trump took the notes because he wanted to review them???

Hahahaha! You're talking about the guy who doesn't even read what's meant for him to read, let alone someone else's notes. You're talking about the guy whose staff fills his documents with charts and pictures because he reads so little...and he's going to try and decipher someone else's chicken scratchings?!?

No, we're talking about the guy who was ripping up all of his documents as a standard practice and then the wh archivists were busy gluing pieces of paper together from his trash to try to preserve the documents as required by law.

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momj47(7A)

Trump took the notes because he is an agent of Putin

And when challenged, he has not denied it.

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momj47(7A)

I'm sure Mueller will be investigating this, too

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catticusmockingbird



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catticusmockingbird

VERY INTERESTING timeline of Trump's meetings with Putin at the G20 and the Trump Tower meeting.


https://twitter.com/andrewsweiss/status/1084802080051736577

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catticusmockingbird

"Russia, if you can hear me, send Hamburg notes to Nancy Pelosi."

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Kathy

Trump said they discussed great things but he confiscated the notes. Why? Great for who?

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blfenton

In response to the title of this thread - NO KIDDING!

Why he didn't say no when asked if he was working for Russia - I suspect that he has been told or has noticed what happens when you do lie about this type of question so he obfuscates instead and he is very good at doing that.

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elvis

I'm sure having no success in finding out who said Trump confiscated the translator's notes. Who witnessed that?

Second question is: Whose responsibility is it to keep track of any notes from a private meeting with a head of state and where is it written that this is required at all?

These are legitimate questions. Anyone have the answers?

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Kathy

The Democrats want to question the interpreter to find out what happened but that is very unprecedented. It is also unprecedented not to save the notes from these meetings with foreign leaders, especially adversaries. Many notes are in museums from prior Presidents meetings. There is also nothing from NoKo meeting with KJU.

Why wouldn’t Trump want a record?

I did hear the only statement so far, unsupported I think, was someone heard Trump say “I believe you” when he asked Putin about interfering in the election.


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subtropix

Putin..., I mean tRump, is a RUSSIAN tool meant to destroy America.

So sad that the conservatards/RepubliCONs still are clueless.

I will say this, if Amerika is so f'n STUPID that it cannot see this, well then, maybe (as a fellow Slav), it's not such a bad thing that our idiocy become a satellite of Russia.


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cattyles

Is anyone else a little worried about the translater?

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GOD

You mean her/his life? Yes.

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MrsM(6)

I noticed his new word of the week is 'hoax!' regarding this when asked about it. 'Witchhunt!' is for other difficult questions.

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dandyfopp

The translator needs a bodyguard or five.

Donnie is a traitor, any and all evidence pointing to this is going to be dismissed by Donnie fans in one way or another.

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elvis

...so no one has the answer to my questions. Okay!

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elvis

I'll ask again tomorrow. We need to determine what the topic of this thread actually is. To refresh, here's my post again:

I'm sure having no success in finding out who said Trump confiscated the translator's notes. Who witnessed that?

Second question is: Whose responsibility is it to keep track of any notes from a private meeting with a head of state and where is it written that this is required at all?

These are legitimate questions. Anyone have the answers?

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Kathy

It seems Tillerson witnessed Trump.

The Washington Post reported that Trump’s 2017 meeting with Putin in Hamburg, Germany—also attended by then-secretary of state Rex Tillerson—ended with the president instructing an interpreter “not to discuss what had transpired with other administration officials.” Tillerson subsequently gave a readout of the meeting to U.S. officials and press, but sources told the Postthere is otherwise no detailed record of Trump’s interactions with Putin, even in classified files.

The Hamburg meeting is one of five notable off-record meetings Trump has held with Putin, though it is the only known instance of the president confiscating an interpreter’s notes. U.S. officials have also been unable to get a readout of Trump’s two-hour meeting with Putin in Helsinki, Finland, this past summer, during which no Cabinet officials or aides were allowed in the room.

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nopartyghost

For anyone who is too challenged to look up sources online for the answers to questions or sources. I use google but any search engine should work. Type in the query & voila! You too can find sources.

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