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Wolf 15" modular gas + 24" induction cooktop - functional set up?

ostrich
5 years ago

Just as I thought that I was done with the cooktop/rangetop decision (gas vs induction), I just saw the Wolf 15" modular gas cooktop + 24" induction cooktop option!


I just did a search and know that there had been many threads about this, but I could not find the answers to my questions so please bear with me. While this sounds like a great combo for me (induction for the "clean" daily cooking, while the powerful gas burner (22K BTU) would be great for wok cooking, here are my questions:


1. The Wolf 24" induction cooktop only has a maximum power output of 3100W (with boost) for the largest zone). This is much less than what their 36" induction cooktop offers (3600W max). Since I have never used an induction cooktop before, is this power output going to be too low for pan frying with a 12" pan? If the 24" induction cooktop had the 3600W output (with boost) then it's a bit of a no-brainer for me....


2. For those of you with this (or similar) set up - as the gas burner will be sitting right on the side of this set up, do you find that stirring fry there will cause a big messy splash everywhere on the countertop?


3. Do you find it inconvenient to have 2 relatively small cooktop areas that are on 2 different levels, so that moving the cookware from one spot to another to be annoying? Or is this not an issue?


4. For the ventilation set up, will you then go with a 42" vent hood?


Thank you so much in advance for your help!

Comments (55)

  • kaseki
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    First, let me disabuse you of the belief that frying will need maximum wattage. High induction power is mainly relevant to shortening the time a given quantity of water will get to boiling. Frying on a normal pan is more likely to take a "3" or "4" setting once the pan is up to temperature. (Of course, this is dependent on how much heat the pan can radiate and how moist the material to be fried is.) Even searing meat on a gridded cast iron pan will not require full power unless one is into extreme temperatures (and has the ventilation to deal with it).

    The exception can occur with wok cooking. (I have an auxiliary 3500W Cooktek wok hob next to my 36-inch induction cooktop -- 3500W is roughly equivalent to a 30 kBTUh gas burner.). When cooking by portions a large quantity stir-fry, and then combining all of the materials for a final blast with the sauce ingredients, there will be enough material and liquid to require full power to quickly steam off the excess moisture. More modest quantity wok cooking can be done on the regular induction hobs just as it can be achieved on a 20 kBTUh gas burner, but pan handling and hot zone size can vary with pan and hob size.

    ostrich thanked kaseki
  • mabeldingeldine
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    I have a 36" induction cooktop, which is ok, but I'll go back to gas in my next house. The only advantage I see is it is easier to clean. Gas is soul satisfying.


    If you are the primary cook and prefer induction, then I'd use induction, I think it would defeat the only advantage of induction to have a gas hob next door.

    Induction does look sleek: https://www.houzz.com/discussions/reveal-budget-diy-ikea-kitchen-dsvw-vd~5547389?n=11

    ostrich thanked mabeldingeldine
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  • ostrich
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    Thank you, kas and mabeldingeldine!


    mabeldingeldine, it's interesting to hear your perspective - what type of cooking do you do mostly that makes it more satisfying with gas? I am curious to learn as I am weighing up the pros and cons of each system. Thanks!


    kas, really good points here! Thank you. So if I go with a 36" wolf or Miele induction cooktop, it will have a 3600W area with boost, so that should be good enough for wok cooking of a modest quantity, depending on the cookware that I use then. But with the gas burner (22K BTW), though it does not have as much power, it may have the advantage of having a larger heated surface area and also the fact that I can use my regular cookware and also move the wok around too... would that be a fair summary?


    So I should not worry too much about the 24" induction cooktop only having 3100W power on boost, because the only real disadvantage is that boiling water may be not as fast.


    In our cooking, we use cookwares with different types of materials for different foods (e.g. stoneware for certain types of slow cooking) and so having that gas option is a nice one, otherwise, we will need to change out most of the cookware.... which is not an insignificant thing. Really something to think about.


    Regarding ventilation, if I do this set up (15" + 24" = 39") should I then go to a 42" vent hood rather than a 36"? I am leaning towards the professional series in Vent-A-Hood.


    Thank you again for all the great and helpful comments!

  • mabeldingeldine
    5 years ago

    Having to change cookware was the worst part of induction. I loved my old cookware, especially a 5 qt. soup pot I had. I purchased a set of Cuisinart multiclad, but am not thrilled with them it is so hard to find good cookware. Man, I miss that soup pot.

    ostrich thanked mabeldingeldine
  • ostrich
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    mabeldingeldine, I think that is a really valid point! We all have our favourite cookwares and how could we just stop using them!? I used a magnet to test them out last week and most of them failed.... that's when I was leaning towards gas again!!! Sigh....

  • ostrich
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    wekick, thank you for your insightful comments! I had not thought of the pacemaker/ICD issue, so that is great to know! Thank you.


    Since you have both gas and induction, I am really curious as to what you use each for. Is there any particular type of cooking or food that you would use gas vs induction for please? That would be really helpful for me to know, as I am going through this journey now.


    Thank you again!

  • GreenDesigns
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    The pacemaker thing has been debunked for years. Over the years, there have been many many threads on here and elsewhere asking if those who chose induction missed gas. Maybe 3 out of 1000 replied being less than fully happy with induction. Most of them were men, who just had the gut reaction to fire. Grunt, grunt. Research it yourself. .3%

    Everyone else would give up everything else in their new kitchen if they could just keep their induction. Good cookware isn't that hard to find. Even IKEA sells a very reasonably priced set. As do most local restaurant supply houses. Reasonable all the way up to o my goodness.

    ostrich thanked GreenDesigns
  • wekick
    5 years ago

    I think you can adapt most cooking to either but a lot depends on what induction cooktop/range you buy. Induction plates are not as powerful as the induction hobs in a cooktop or range. I mostly use them for simmers or as a hot plate for a buffet isn't a a real test of a more powerful hob.

    Most differences as I notice are as I said above. There are work arounds for some. I prefer gas for a wok but some people have a specialized induction wok hob or use a flat bottomed wok and are perfectly happy. Some are even happy with a round bottom wok on induction. I am cooking for a lot of people sometimes so if the skilket is full I like that the sides heat well too with gas as I might push things up the side until they cook down. Of coarse things that require a flame can't be done on an induction as above but some have other sources of an open flame.


    I would look at your whole situation. For some people the ease of cleaning is why they like induction. It takes a hard look at what works for you rather than what the majority of the people say is best.


    I love my collected cookware. Most is vintage so French copper, aluminum or French enamel on cast iron(which might work better on induction). I have a really big aluminum overlay griddle that I really like. I like the size of my rangetop because I use big pans.


    If you're a person who needs to come home from work and get hot water or something else going on a burner, induction might be for you. I am more of a cookie sheet dinner person, even before the concept was popular because I want to throw it in the oven and sit down for a little bit. The speed of the cooktop doesn't mean that much to me.


    I just like gas. I like the flame. Aside from the things I listed above, it is just a highly subjective thing that I can't articulate.




    ostrich thanked wekick
  • wekick
    5 years ago

    “GreenDesigns

    The pacemaker thing has been debunked for years.”

    You might want to read up a little on that.

    Here is one article from 2018, but always ask the cardiologist or electrophysiologist who put it in. There may be some that are shielded but a lot aren’t. Find out what happens to your device if it comes into contact with a strong magnet. What do you need to do? You can find studies that show interference and some that do not. Does yours just revert to a non therapeutic mode or shut off? To avoid the problem, stay 24” away. Not everybody wants to have to remember that though.

    http://www.wwl.nhs.uk/Specialities/Cardiology/pacemaker_faq.aspx

    There is marketing literature that says “no problem”. “Just test it out by walking slowly up to a burner and see if you get light headed”, which is very irresponsible not knowing anything about how your pacemaker or ICD works. I like to err on the side of caution. I knew someone who was a medical professional, very young who had a pacemaker. Someone came up a slapped a “therapeutic” magnet on their shoulder at a medical convention and they had to go to the ER.

    Maybe 3 out of 1000 replied being less than fully happy with induction. Most of them were men, who just had the gut reaction to fire. Grunt, grunt. Research it yourself. .3%”

    I do agree with researching the pros and cons of each and the capabilities of specific appliances. Researching your numbers are irrelevant to the OP. Even if something is best for 99% of people, it might not be best for them. Anytime you start saying “all”, giving numbers with no supporting data, or making demeaning comments about people’s choices, to me you lose credibility. Even if let’s say 97% that chose induction exclusively, which is a different situation than ostrich who wants both, were happy and would not go back, there are many more in real numbers that have made an informed well thought out decision to choose gas to begin with. There are also many that have both and see utility in both. You must not read the same stuff I read.

    For you ostrich, an assessment of the your needs and the people you cook with, correlation with features of various appliances and an individualized plan rather than a blanket recommendation will serve you well.

    ostrich thanked wekick
  • kaseki
    5 years ago

    A point to add to the earlier discussion: Power boost can be initiated from an off hob, but (at least on the Electrolux and its clones) cannot be reached from operating at lower settings. If the cooktop guts are cool enough, one could shut off the hob and turn it back on in power boost mode. For most induction units that I'm aware of, power boost mode also has limitations in numbers of hobs operating on the same power supply and time of operation. In other words, the induction cooktop guts are inadequately cooled for continuous operation in power boost mode. I would use the continuous max power as the value to compare for any significant wok time.

    With induction, both the specialized Cooktek configuration as well as the flat surface standard cooktops, I would suggest avoiding typical wok motions, and just move the food within the wok. Lifting is ok, but temperature changes are easier (especially with the Cooktek) by using the cooktop controls. For flat surface wok cooking, one might want to use a small hob under a larger pan, moving food into and out of the central zone. This would require using a thin steel pan rather than a clad pan intended for temperature uniformity. With flat pans, a hot oil frying zone puddle in the center will not be present. This may or may not matter depending on the food item and cooking approach.

    For hood design with two cooking units, one has two choices: widely separated and adjacent. The former requires two smaller hoods; the latter require a large hood for which the flow rate has to be that demanded by the worst case cooking over the entire entry aperture.

    Layout has to consider how the counter is supported by the underlying cabinets. Putting both cooktops in very close proximity is difficult and usually not desirable from a support point of view -- particularly with stone. Separation for support by two cabinets will increase the required hood size to overlap the units at both ends.

    ostrich thanked kaseki
  • kaseki
    5 years ago

    Last, ideal is the enemy of good enough. Hundreds of millions of Asians have successfully cooked with woks on very modest wood or coal fires historically and electric coil or small gas burners more recently. If Chinese restaurant capability is wanted, then none of normal gas, electric coil, or induction will achieve it -- restaurant wok burners start at 100 kBTUh and have knee controls for power.

    ostrich thanked kaseki
  • ostrich
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    Thank you so much, kaseki, for the insightful comments! I had not known about the booster situation with induction cooktops. Interestingly, after reading your comments, I went to check out both the Miele and Wolf websites. It appears that both have about the same max power, but the booster is a bit more powerful with Miele. Then with Wolf, even though both the 24" and 36" models have a max rating of 2600W, the 24" cooktop's booster rating was 3150W while the 36" cooktop's booster rating was 3600W. You are so right, we need to look at the regular power, not just the booster power which is short-lived!


    I chatted with my family this afternoon. While the combo set up seems to satisfy both needs, it does seem to "reduce" the useful cooktop surface area, as we will have only a 24" induction surface, together with a gas burner that will only fit one thing there. It is indeed something to think about. Indeed, the combo price will be over $1200 more than the nice Wolf 36" Contemporary gas cooktop. It is certainly a consideration.


    Thank you again!

  • ostrich
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    Just found a photo of the Wolf 24" induction + 15" modular gas burner - while they add up to be 39" the cooking surface seems a bit cramped there, doesn't it?! Hmm....




  • waverly6
    5 years ago

    Not loving it. Aesthetically or functionally. I don''t like the look of the different levels. Will you be happy with one gas burner? And I feel it cheapens the look of very expensive appliances. I'd go with one or the other.


  • waverly6
    5 years ago

    If they were both the same height it would look better.

  • ostrich
    Original Author
    5 years ago
    waverley66, thank you so much for this - I thought that too and am so glad that my thought was supported by someone else!!! Thank you!!!

    Then 36" induction or gas is the question...
    hmm....
  • waverly6
    5 years ago

    Ok, this is my own personal opinion. I absolutely love the look of a big pro looking gas range or rangetop ( when the dials are on the front. Not on the top. ) Because I'm lazy and hate cleaning and find the grates on a gas cooktop so heavy to lift, I personally am going with induction. I cook far less on the stove than I do in my ovens. So everything I have read about induction works for me. When I had a big viking rangetop in one of my other houses, I cooked even less. I would fry an egg and have to clean 6 grates.

    Just to throw a spanner in the works,( I know you wanted the Miele oven, why don't you look at the Miele 36 inch gas range with steam assist oven ( if there is one). ( the induction range only comes in 30 inch.

  • ostrich
    Original Author
    5 years ago
    Thanks waverley66! I thought if that too but I had dual fuel ranges in my last 2 houses and I really wanted to have a separate oven now because the range made it difficult for someone to use the oven while another person is using the stove.... and we use the stove a lot. The oven was also sitting too low for me too.... and with the design of my new kitchen it would be much more streamlined to have a cooktop or rangetop. I was going with a rangetop until I saw the ventilation requirements... ouch.

    So, it's either a 36" induction or gas cooktop now. I also would love an induction cooktop but the cookware issue and family preference are pushing me back to the gas... hmm....
  • waverly6
    5 years ago

    You really have thought through every aspect of how you best use your kitchen. One trick I learned about decision making is to present the scenario of "What if?" . As in " What if you learned you could not go with gas and could ONLY put in induction, what would your reaction be?" Perhaps I should follow my own advice.......

    Although my issue now is more based on spatial design, layout and to walk in pantry or not to walk in pantry and trying to find a designer who will just do planning without supplying the cabinetry and contracting.

    ostrich thanked waverly6
  • ostrich
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    waverley66, thank you! I thought about what you said over the weekend.... if I did not get the induction cooktop, then I would have more cleaning to do with the gas cooktop! LOL! On the other hand, if I did not get the gas cooktop, then I will hear it from my family later.... ha ha ha....


    In the end, I ended up going with the gas cooktop. I hope that I made the right decision!


    As for your own issue now, I thought that many designers would do a planning without supplying the cabinets and contracting too? Surely someone would do that, right!? Oh yes, please go with the walk in pantry. You will not regret it! :-)

  • GreenDesigns
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Buy a countertop hob and let the family use it for a while before deciding.

    And there are many designers only that aren't out to sell you cabinets. A lot even post here. Try https://www.houzz.com/pro/icookinmykitchen/the-cooks-kitchen is part of my state NKBA chapter, and she does a lot of remote design.

    ostrich thanked GreenDesigns
  • waverly6
    5 years ago

    Thanks Ostrich I actually have gas range envy. Every time i look at pictures of kitchens and I see a big 48 inch or 60 inch gas range, I silently scream "i want, I want". but then self awareness and sanity prevail and I go back to my uninspiring induction cooktop/range visions.

    GreenDesigns, thanks very much for the reference, I have one more local possibility to explore and if that doesn't work out, I will contact her.

    ostrich thanked waverly6
  • jdsb2
    5 years ago

    I have both gas and induction and I love the induction, but my husband prefers the gas. So both are used regularly, as we both cook.

  • ostrich
    Original Author
    5 years ago
    jdsb2, Thank you. How is your set up there? Do you have 2 separate cooktop areas or a combo please?
  • jdsb2
    5 years ago

    We have a full catering kitchen behind our main kitchen, so it is two separate cooking areas. We put the induction in the main kitchen and a gas range in the catering kitchen. I did extensive research deciding what do to and looked into many different layout options. I considered gas with an induction hob or induction with a gas hob in the main kitchen. We really wanted a 24" griddle, but could not figure out a way to make that work and have induction in the main kitchen. I have three boys who love to cook and believe the induction to be safer for them to use. The 12" griddle is the one thing I love on the gas range and we do wish it was bigger.

  • ostrich
    Original Author
    5 years ago
    Thank you! Which induction cooktop did you pick for the main kitchen? It's great to have such options like you do!!! :-)
  • waverly6
    5 years ago

    Just to confuse you a bit further, Ostrich, have you looked at the Thermador 36 inch induction cooktop? There are a couple. One is the freedom which alllows you to put your pots anywhere. ( which might be more attractive in theory than in practice) but can use up to 5 or 6 pots. And there is a slightly less expensive option too .

    ostrich thanked waverly6
  • ostrich
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    Hi waverley66,


    Hahaha.... yes, I did look at the Thermador.... the Freedom one is outrageous with its pricing! I am sure that in a few years' time, most of the induction cooktops will be like this, so I am just going to hold tight... LOL! Thanks!

  • waverly6
    5 years ago

    That's exactly what I thought. but what do we cook on in the meantime? IN our Miele CSO, I guess.


  • jdsb2
    5 years ago

    I have the Miele 42" cooktop, which I love. I considered the Thermador Freedom, but the cooking space on it is (or was) only 30" and could only accommodate 4 pots at a time. The 42" has two large rectangular burners which each allow for a large griddle and just about any other pot configuration. I realize that no one else makes a 42" making it difficult to replace if necessary, but really enjoy the extra space the cooktop affords. We often cook with multiple large pots.

  • cpartist
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    What if one of the cooks has a pacemaker or ICD?

    That's not a problem with the majority of today's pacemakers and in reality, when batteries are replaced nowadays they're replaced with ones that can even go through an MRI machine. Not an issue.


    Easy way to find out if you do have a pacemaker is to call up the pacemaker company and they can look it up. It's what I did when I was considering induction. My DH has a pacemaker. We were told as long as his pacemaker is at least 6" from the surface, he'll be fine.

  • cpartist
    5 years ago

    I know your family said gas but did you consider the reason was because it's new and people are adverse to change? Once they use induction for a week or so, they too will be sold.


    I put in induction and will never go back. I've had no problems searing, stir frying or using my wok. Most of my cooking is done on the cooktop. Control with induction is much more precise. I can now easily make oatmeal, rice, etc without worrying about it burning.


    And cleanup is a breeze.

  • ostrich
    Original Author
    5 years ago
    cpartist, I agree... but when some members are elderly and even have a tough time using the touch control with the iPhone, I think that it's going to be a big difficult to learn to use the induction cooktop.... but I see your point. Thank you.
  • waverly6
    5 years ago

    I gotta say, as the only cook, if there were other people in my circle willing to cook, I would not only get what they are going to be happy using, but I would wash and kiss their feet first and wave palm fronds over their heads while they are doing it!

  • ostrich
    Original Author
    5 years ago
    waverly66, there you go!!!! You got it completely! :-)

    Then the heirloom cookware that would not work with induction.... it's a big consideration as my family still use that stuff regularly.... I guess everyone has his or her own situation to consider and in my case, I know what my priority is :-)
  • waverly6
    5 years ago

    If I put in gas, will they come cook at me?

    I also hear you with the pots. Only my cast iron pots and Le Creuset are magnetic. I am already starting to worry about how I'm going to manage without my "Three missionary pot" I use to make (what feels like) 14000 gallons of soup. Ironically, the Thermador freedom would be perfect to hold it but I doubt it would work with Induction.

  • waverly6
    5 years ago

    Seriously, If I were you, I'd go with a kickass gas range with lots of lovely shiny knobs and one or two portable induction single hotplate thingies from Costco. I was watching a youtube video where one reviewer compared a $60 Costco induction hotplate in a water boiling test to the thermador and it was only about 20 or 30 seconds slower. And then you have the advantage of using it outdoors as well in summer when you are barbecuing and you don't have to keep running indoors to check on whatever is on the stove.

    ostrich thanked waverly6
  • ostrich
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    waverley66, thank you for that interesting video! This is a very good idea and I may just go along with it! LOL! Thank you!!!

  • wekick
    5 years ago

    Aside from pacemakers, other medical devices like insulin pumps can be affected by induction hobs.

    https://jdrf.org.uk/news/induction-hob-magnetic-field-danger-insulin-pump/


    cpartist

    What if one of the cooks has a pacemaker or ICD?

    That's not a problem with the majority of today's pacemakers and in reality, when batteries are replaced nowadays they're replaced with ones that can even go through an MRI machine. Not an issue.”


    Where are you getting this information??? MRIs are an issue even with an MRI ready pacemaker.

    You are not just replacing batteries, but the whole pacing system called a generator. You will get newer technology but in order to utilize a MRI ready pacemaker you need the right leads(the wires that go to the heart from the pacemaker). Leads are not usually changed unless there is a specific reason to do that so not that many MRI ready pacemakers are in place. Some MRIs are done now on people with conventional pacemakers but it is still considered a contraindication most of the time especially if you are pacemaker dependent. As technology improves and more whole systems are placed the amount of MRI ready pacemakers will increase. This from Mayo Clinic discusses this issue and MRIs with a conventional pacemaker.

    https://www.mayoclinic.org/medical-professionals/cardiovascular-diseases/news/new-protocols-allow-for-mri-in-selected-pacemaker-patients/mac-20430571

    The limitations from the article.

    “The first MRI-conditional pacemaker received FDA approval for use in the United States in February 2011. This first-generation device has important limitations:

    • It requires a special lead system, so the generator cannot be simply replaced and connected to in situ intracardiac leads.
    • Cardiac MRI is excluded because of potential overheating of the new lead system (second-generation devices currently available in Europe use a lead system that is compatible with cardiac MRI).
    • Additionally, the first-generation devices are limited to 1.5-tesla scanners.”

    Back to induction hob safety, this is kind of a rehash of what I wrote above but not everyone reads the whole thread. There are more considerations than calling up the pacemaker company. I would also talk to the cardiologist/electrophysiologist that put it in. Consider what happens to the pacemaker if it is affected by an induction hob. Is the person dependent on the pacemaker? Do they have an underlying heart rate that is compatible with life if the pacemaker fails? “Safe” distance from the hob also can vary up to 24” away. As with most things, you would consider risk vs benefit for using induction but it is important to be informed.

    I would also talk to your primary health care provider to determine if you have any other ancillary devices that might be affected.

    For me, with many years in the medical field (critical care and surgery), I have found that things don’t always go the way they are supposed to. I probably have a skewed viewpoint because I see the worst things that can happen but my husband had a defective pacemaker. Something in the programming changed. It did not show up for a year. Was it damaged from exposure to some sort of magnetic field along the way? The manufacturer looked at it but did not come to any conclusions that they shared with us.

  • kaseki
    5 years ago

    wekick: 1.5 tesla?! C.f. the Large Hadron Collider at CERN at 8.3 tesla. The reported induction hob field strengths at the reference below are in micro-teslas, weaker than the earth's field. If I had an induction hob that could develop 1.5 tesla, not only would it likely deform itself into a non-planar coil and short out or disconnect itself, whichever came first, but I'd need a power trailer outside, just like the hospitals have to support their MRI machines.

    https://www.emf-portal.org/en/emf-source/162

    I think the weak, but not negligible electric field strength would be more applicable to MRI-resistant pacemaker interference.

  • K. Holiday
    5 years ago

    I was tempted by induction, and really enjoyed using a portable induction burner in our temporary living situation last year, but ended up getting the 36" Wolf gas Contemporary for our new kitchen. I made the choice based on what I saw as the prospects for needing repairs. The Wolf is almost as simple as my last stove, which was a 1950's 36" Dixie that I had for 20 years and repaired once. I'm hoping the most this new one will ever need is replacing of the little ignition posts. A year in, I have come to really love the Wolf and hope it lasts forever. I can use it to roast peppers over open flame, it has a great heat range, and I get to keep my clay bean pots and even melt butter and chocolate in whatever non plastic bowls I have because the simmer settings are so gentle. I also appreciate that I can use gas during a power outage.

    Be warned, there is a thread here in which Sophie warns about the Contemporary's low profile causing scorching of quartz countertops. I'm guessing she's never used it!.There is plenty of space for multiple large pans.

    ostrich thanked K. Holiday
  • cpartist
    5 years ago

    What if one of the cooks has a pacemaker or ICD?

    That's not a problem with the majority of today's pacemakers and in reality, when batteries are replaced nowadays they're replaced with ones that can even go through an MRI machine. Not an issue.”


    Where are you getting this information??? MRIs are an issue even with an MRI ready pacemaker.

    You are not just replacing batteries, but the whole pacing system called a generator. You will get newer technology but in order to utilize a MRI ready pacemaker you need the right leads(the wires that go to the heart from the pacemaker). Leads are not usually changed unless there is a specific reason to do that so not that many MRI ready pacemakers are in place. Some MRIs are done now on people with conventional pacemakers but it is still considered a contraindication most of the time especially if you are pacemaker dependent. As technology improves and more whole systems are placed the amount of MRI ready pacemakers will increase. This from Mayo Clinic discusses this issue and MRIs with a conventional pacemaker.

    Where am I getting the info? From my DH who got it from his specialist who will be replacing his batteries next year.

    “The first MRI-conditional pacemaker received FDA approval for use in the United States in February 2011. This first-generation device has important limitations:

    I don't know if you checked the date, but it's now 2019. I'm sure the technology is a heck of a lot different than it was in 2011.

    Back to induction hob safety, this is kind of a rehash of what I wrote above but not everyone reads the whole thread. There are more considerations than calling up the pacemaker company. I would also talk to the cardiologist/electrophysiologist that put it in. Consider what happens to the pacemaker if it is affected by an induction hob. Is the person dependent on the pacemaker? Do they have an underlying heart rate that is compatible with life if the pacemaker fails? “Safe” distance from the hob also can vary up to 24” away. As with most things, you would consider risk vs benefit for using induction but it is important to be informed.

    As I said, best practice is to call up the company and/or your doctor to find out what they suggest.

    We've now had our induction cooktop since the end of April and we've had absolutely no issues with it.

    wekick: 1.5 tesla?! C.f. the Large Hadron Collider at CERN at 8.3 tesla. The reported induction hob field strengths at the reference below are in micro-teslas, weaker than the earth's field. If I had an induction hob that could develop 1.5 tesla, not only would it likely deform itself into a non-planar coil and short out or disconnect itself, whichever came first, but I'd need a power trailer outside, just like the hospitals have to support their MRI machines.

    https://www.emf-portal.org/en/emf-source/162

    I think the weak, but not negligible electric field strength would be more applicable to MRI-resistant pacemaker interference.

    Thank you Kasaki for some actual facts.

  • wekick
    5 years ago

    “Kaseki- The reported induction hob field strengths at the reference below are in micro-teslas, weaker than the earth's field“


    So as a clinical person, I would have to ask, why do so many pacemaker manufacturers and medical sites recommend staying 6”-24” away from the hob?

    What is the maximum field strength that a hob could produce in any situation? The example you gave is one but not too specific. You can go online and see people getting all kinds of measurements.

    What level could possibly interfere with any pacemaker? I read in one study that around 2500 uT would definitely affect them but what is the minimum that possibly could?

    What would be the worse case scenario?

    What other factors might be involved?

    _______

    “cpartist-What if one of the cooks has a pacemaker or ICD?

    That's not a problem with the majority of today's pacemakers and in reality, when batteries are replaced nowadays they're replaced with ones that can even go through an MRI machine. Not an issue.”

    Where am I getting the info? From my DH who got it from his specialist who will be replacing his batteries next year.“


    If this were the case, did he tell him that he would get an MRI ready pacemaker? It would require lead replacement. The leads are embedded in the heart. As long as they remain, even if you put new ones in, they have a danger of the leads heating. Research it yourself, because if you have someone telling you this, that would be a little scarey to me. It is a huge issue, because people with pacemakers often have other health issues and often need MRIs and can’t get them except as in the article I linked.


    The first MRI-conditional pacemaker received FDA approval for use in the United States in February 2011. This first-generation device has important limitations:

    I don't know if you checked the date, but it's now 2019. I'm sure the technology is a heck of a lot different than it was in 2011.”


    I don’t think you read my post. This sentence sets up the historical context of the MRI ready pacemaker. Instead of being “sure“ without current information, you can read and at least see what Mayo Clinic has to say in that article for health care professionals.

    If you had read just 4 more lines down in the quote in my post, it talks about second generation MRI ready pacemakers available in Europe. The big change is that the leads are allowing even a cardiac MRI. So even if you have an MRI ready pacemaker now and want a second generation model, you are still limited by the leads. The article goes on to say that they expect these second generation pacemakers to become more widely available over the next 10 years in the US.


    The interesting point about the article is the fact that some MRIs under very specific circumstances can be done with conventional pacemakers.


    Thank you Kasaki for some actual facts”


    I very much appreciate kaseki’s facts too but there are other actual facts that you are not wanting to hear. There are also some facts that are not that readily available except to pacemaker manufacturers. Maybe this is why they recommend staying anywhere from 6-24” away from induction hobs which is the real issue. Why would that be?


  • kaseki
    5 years ago

    Note that "my facts" don't preclude a hazard, just that the cause of the hazard may be different than presumed in some paragraphs above. I would carefully check on medical opinions if I were to need a pacemaker. But I would also extend the investigation to other sources of EMI, particularly cell phones, WiFi, bluetooth, car keys using RF, close to the vest camera speedlights, and working on old cars with unshielded ignitions, to list some example RF emitters.

  • wekick
    5 years ago

    Can you be specific in what you mean by "the cause of the hazard may be different than what is presumed in some of the paragraphs above"?


    Definitely agree with your last sentence.

    Here here is a list of hazards from Boston Scientific. Induction cooktops are right in there though.



    http://www.bostonscientific.com/content/dam/lifebeat-online/en/documents/BSC_Electromagnetic_Compatibility_Guide.pdf


  • kaseki
    5 years ago

    What I meant was what I wrote earlier, the hazard may be from electric fields and not magnetic fields, as they are popularly understood.

    In the notice above, there is only an implication of a magnetic effect, but keeping 12 inches away could be for avoiding other close in electro-magnetic effects. All of a coil's magnetic field lines will be closed, and these will be closed through the pan base or (to a tiny extent) under the pan base and not wandering around the room. Propagating ULF radio waves, if present, could make it to the pacemaker and its wiring, but such waves want an antenna farm like HAARP for transmission rather than a coil edge peaking out that is a minute fraction of a wavelength in extent. The third option is non-propagating (capacitively coupled) electric fields from the exposed edge of the coil, which I suggest is the most likely means of inducing interference into a pacemaker and its wiring.

    In such a case, a tinfoil vest will be more useful than a tinfoil hat. :)

  • wekick
    5 years ago

    Thanks kaseki.

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