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solid hardwood vs. engineered hardwood

3 years ago

renovating my entire first floor and torn between solid hardwood and engineered hardwood. we like white oak. we 2 kids and hopefully adding a dog a few years down the road. does solid hardwood hold up best?

is there a massive difference cost wise?

thank you!

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PRO

Oak & Broad

3 years ago

kmoriarty25 , Some Engineered is actually more expensive than Solid flooring. Also keep in mind that just because a floor is Engineered does not mean its prefinished. Here is a helpful Engineered flooring diagram. Here is a great article on how to pick a good Engineered floor.

Educational Plank Flooring Examples · More Info

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Comments (20)

Kirsten E.
3 years ago
There’s a wide range of prices in each category, but based on my research for our build, generally speaking solid hardwood is more expensive. That being said, I’m sure you could find an engineered hardwood that is more expensive than a solid, but it would probably be a low quality solid with a lot of variation. Price depends on a lot of factors: plank width and length, site finished or pre-finished, thickness. Online price comparison shopping was helpful for me :)
Milo Pompeii
3 years ago
Do a search on the topic. Determine your parameters based upon your location, humidity, room for a sub-floor or no, etc.

If engineered is called for, go for 3/4 inch with 1/4 veneer. That will provide refinish options and frequency similar to regular hardwoods on a sub-floor. That will eliminate quite a few brands of engineered, though.
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Wood vs. Engineered Wood? No contest in this case. If the home was built in 1905, put real hardwood in. This preserves the integrity of the home's building materials. Plus, as you can see from the age of these floors, higher grades (i.e. thicker) hardwood can be sanded several times; you usually don't get even one chance to sand engineered wood. The hardwood layer at the top of this multilayered product is simply too thin. Level Floors and Subfloors There are ways to level a subfloor, ranging from replacing parts of the subfloor with thicker or thinner sheets of plywood (or planks, see below), to pour-on leveling compounds that harden to make the entire floor level. What you use to level uneven areas depends on what the subflooring is. If it is plywood or concrete, the compound works. But more likely with this home, on floors at or above grade, there will be wood planks laid at a diagonal across the floor joists. So in your home, the layers were probably joists first, then subfloor planks of wood, then hardwood with tongue & groove joints. You cannot effectively use a pour-on leveling compound on a plank subfloor, as there are cracks between the planks. However, you can lay a new hardwood floor directly on a wood plank subfloor as long as those planks are sound and relatively level. Replace individual planks that have been damaged by water or insects, are otherwise compromised, or even missing (it happens!), with either new planks of lumber, or with plywood of the same thickness as the planks. Any lumber you install, for either the subfloor or finished flooring, should be brought in to your home several days prior to installation, so the materials acclimatize to your typical interior temperature and humidity. Unlike for ceramic or porcelain tile, the subfloor does not have to be perfectly level. And unlike vinyl sheeting, planks or tiles, the hardwood won't "telegraph" minor differences in height, and minor surface irregularities, so the subfloor doesn't have to be absolutely perfect; it should be sound, strong, uniform and essentially level. Your flooring contractor can give you specifics on what upgrades your subfloor may need once the original hardwood is removed. Joists If the floor is significantly not level in parts, or if certain areas feel spongy when you walk on them, I recommend you have your flooring contractor, a home inspector, or structural engineer inspect the subflooring and especially the floor joists. You don't want to invest in a new floor, only to have it become damaged because some joists weren't attended to. Transitions Transitions (a.k.a. thresholds or molding) between existing rooms and the new floor ought to be made of the same wood and same finish (stain, polyurethane, etc.) as the new flooring you are putting down. As wood ages, the finish becomes darker, so trying to make the transitions match the finishes of existing floors is very difficult and not recommended (what will match those floors right now won't match later after your transitions age up a bit). Eventually, the transitions wouldn't match either the new or the old floors! Transitions come in four types: reducer (when the two floors being joined are of different heights), seam binder (when the floors are the same height, and the boards from each are very close to one another), T-mold (when the two floors are the same height, but there is a crack between the two rooms' flooring) and stair nose or stair edger (when the flooring needs to curve around the front of a stair's "tread"--the flat part of a stair upon which you tread!). The transitions for your particular project can be ordered when you order the hardwood, so make sure to include measurements for those doorways/entrances. The contractor can tell you if he/she anticipates there will be a height difference or gap between the floorings, which would require those particular transitions. Dry Air Concerns Consult a local lumber supplier or flooring contractor familiar with your local climate conditions to discuss finishes or other tips for keeping your wood floors healthy in the dry winters. Sounds wonderful! Have fun!
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Choosing the right flooring type isn't enough for your living condition. You will have to consider the types of cut: flat sawn, rift and quarter sawn, quarter sawn or live sawn. Quarter sawn and rift & quarter sawn will be best choices, because expansion and contraction is along the thickness of the wood. You will need climate control all year round. 70 degrees at 40 % relative humidity is where you want to be throughout the year. The use of a humidifier/dehumidifier will be needed year round. Although, engineered flooring is more stable than solid. Using the wrong wood specie in your living condition can run the risk of de-laminating with engineered wood. If, the top veneer is more or less stable than it's core and backing. You will experience de-laminating in extreme humidity swings. Take in account of what the engineered flooring is constructed of: mdf or plywood. The width of the flooring will account for how much expansion and contracting also. 2 1/4" strips are the most stable. As you go wider, expect to see more wider seasonal gaps. Proper acclimating is critical, should be performed with a moisture meter. For 2 1/4" strip flooring , sub-floor and flooring moisture should be within 4%. For all other widths 2% moisture differentiation is allowed or should not be exceeded. Don't forget proper expansion gaps, which is the thickness of your flooring, example: 3/4" thick = 3/4" gap. Sub-floor type and condition will affect the performance of wood floors. All this needs to be considered for the proper and successful performance of your wood floors.
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Wow...that's a huge question. I know it sounds simple, but it is quite complex. So complex there are entire books on the subject (both professional and lay-man). So....solid hardwood is just that. It is solid. It is the same wood cut from the same tree, from the same plank at the mill. Traditionally it is 3/4" thick. Widths vary but the classic is around 3" wide plank. A 3/4" solid hardwood can be refinish 3-4 times with a total lifespan of 60-100 years. These are either factory finished or site finished. The industry has realized that some people are too afraid of large purchases so the solid hardwood industry has come up with the idea to make their planks THINNER and thereby making them cheaper. I've seen 1/2" or even 3/8" solid hardwood. They can be refinished once...maybe twice and have a lifespan of 20 - 40 years. These thinner solid hardwoods are often factory finished (cheap, thin and fast). And that's the easy part. Engineered hardwood...where to start. First off the TOP layer is the ONLY LAYER that contains the pricey hardwood that you are paying for. Everything else is like "plywood". The body of the plank is made up of cross-hatched layers of wood (not always hardwood) that are glued together. The top layer will range from 2mm - 6mm. The ability to refinish will depend on the thickness of the top layer (known as the wear layer). You need 3mm of wood to complete a full sand and refinish - just once. So the 2mm wear layer is a "one and done" type of floor. It has a life span of roughly 20 years (though many people rip them out after 15 because they look beaten up). The 6mm wear layer in a 3/4" engineered plank that is site finished is the Holy Grail of the engineered hardwood world. They are the most expensive, the most beautiful and offer the longest life cycle of all engineered hardwoods. They are so expensive that they are MORE expensive than solid hardwood floors. Whew. There is so much more but that's the difference in a nutshell. Shaw has had some complaints. The biggest issues with wood will be humidity and indoor climate control. Ask your builder to check the heating/cooling system. Ask them detailed questions about the unit's capability to handle climate control that is REQUIRED for a hardwood floor - regardless of the presentation.
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I too cannot see the savings of remove+replace. A sand/refinish averages $5/sf. It is minimally disruptive (ie. it does NOT involve demolition) and it will cure in 10 days (assuming you are using a high-end water based finish). Now an engineered hardwood is SUPPOSED to be more expensive than solid. Yah. I said it. Engineered (same cut, width, thickness, installation method) should be more expensive than solid. Hmmmmmm. My spidy senses are tingling. Now on to the cost of hardwood upstairs. Carpet removal/disposal = $1.50 - $2/sf (depends on where you live). Repair and prepare the wooden subfloors (usually 'bad' underneath carpet...carpet hides the WORST subfloors) $2-$4/sf. Yep. Just ASSUME you will be spending $3/sf for the subfloor prep upstairs. Now for the cost of solid hardwood (regular 3" width) = $5/sf. Installation + finishing = $3-$4/sf. Right. A regular solid hardwood (nothing special) with install = $8 - $10/sf. Now compare that to a 'sand and refinish' of $5/sf. Wow. It is CHEAPER to do the sand and refinish. Hmmmm. Now imagine the COST of demolition for the HARDWOOD....yep. You can add MORE to that cost. And again the subfloors have to be looked at. More costs. Now imagine the cost of a MORE EXPENSIVE engineered hardwood....$8 - $12/sf for material only. Installation is extra ($3-$4/sf for factory finished hardwood). I tell ya. The $5/sf sand/refinish is looking REALLY GOOD right now. Ignore the width of the planks. They are classic and are probably appropriate for the age of the home. It is your money and your home. If you believe an engineered hardwood is CHEAPER than $5/sf sand and refinish (including install and subfloor preparation) then you are welcome to find out the reality of the situation. We are going to tell you the 'cheap' wide plank engineered hardwood is not going to give you the 'life expectancy' that a 'regular' 3" wide solid hardwood ($5/sf material). It just won't.
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Express Flooring
3 years ago
In my opinion, Engineered Wood Flooring offers more stability and it looks good. It is best for kids and pets as well. So, i recommend Engineered wood flooring.
floorfreak
3 years ago
Slab foundation or Crawl space?
kmoriarty25
Original Author
3 years ago
going over basement and for majority and crawl space for 8 feet (which accounts for the addition that's going on)
floorfreak
3 years ago
You could do either solid OR Engineered. Make sure the 8' crawl space area has an 8 mil (black) polyethylene plastic installed over the soil to keep the area under the home dry. You'd also have to make sure a barrier was installed in the basement as well. I've read where people put plastic on the joists and others have sprayed something on the underside.

The obvious advantage with solid is you can sand and refinish if you ever want to and with solids you've got two options.

1) Site-finished which would be raw wood that's stained on site with a few coats of polyurethane to finish it out. The benefit is you can pick the exact color and look you want but the big drawback is the finish would not last nearly as long as a commercially manufactured product that you'd purchase at a retailer.

2) Pre-finished floors that you buy from a local shop are typically finished out with a layer of aluminum oxide which makes the finish harder and more scratch-resistant (they generally hold up longer).

Either way you can sand and refinish at any time but given the fact that doing so can be a daunting and costly task and it isn't usually desirable.

Engineered floors are veneered but when they're laid down, it's virtually impossible to tell the difference. They are more moisture-stable meaning you'll have less gaps both post-installation and when seasons change over the years. That said, most engineered products cannot be refinished but they are typically more cost-effective than solids.

Either floor should hold up fine with kids, they will get their knicks and dings and you can generally conceal the damage with furniture pens. Damage from pets is generally dependent on the size of the animal and how much you maintain their hygiene. If they're small dogs and cats, you'll likely have no issues. For medium-to-larger animals... regular pet maintenance will go a long way to ensuring the floors experience minimum damage.

I'd be fine with either one but long term, depending on your pet choice, you may get more mileage out of solid hardwood.
kmoriarty25
Original Author
3 years ago
thanks floorfreak. that was INCREDIBLY helpful. a lot of options out there and my head was spinning a bit when went to the floor shop today. appreciate the advice. I think we will go with prefinished solid hardwood, sounds like best of both worlds there. thank you again!
floorfreak
3 years ago
YW, LMK what samples you're looking at and I might be able to steer you in the right direction.
kmoriarty25
Original Author
3 years ago
floorfreak - went to flooring store today, took home samples of: Armstrong Great Plains Solid Hardwood, Chesapeake Greystone solid hickory hardwood and Armstrong Cascade solid hardwood. we don't want anything too dark or light, something sort of middle of the road. intrigued by hickory as the graining isn't as pronounced as the oak. husband is concerned the cascade has too much gray too it.
Rupali k
3 years ago
Thanks kmoriarty25 for starting this thread. I am in same boat as of you. We are planning to go with nice quality product as its not easy to change it, So I brought sample of PROVENZA FLOORS, American & Guild, Paramount, Bella Cera products. I am so confused with so many brands and type of wood and would appreciate hand in right direction.
floorfreak
3 years ago
kmoriarty25, glad to be of assistance. Hickory is slightly harder than oak and does have a thinner, albeit somewhat similar grain. Armstrong makes great products, I don't sell them direct but they do make some of the products that we sell private label. I'm not in to shameless promotion but If interested, you can message me and I might be able to help you out with something similar... same goes for everyone else.
Rupali k
3 years ago
One of the seller informed me that Armstrong has sold their flooring to non-flooring retailers. So the future of the Armstrong engineered wood brand is not certain.
kmoriarty25
Original Author
3 years ago
thanks floorfreak!
SJ McCarthy
3 years ago
I'm a fan of Hickory. Love it! I love it's STRONG variation! Yep. Variation is the word that can be used for Hickory. If you are going for "mid-tone" then it means the Hickory is stained. No problem. That's fine. Hickory takes a stain very nicely. But it will still have plenty of variation. The stain will even that out a little bit, but not entirely.

The finish is UV cured urethane. I'm not very excited about that finish. If you are going for factory finish, you will want to work with the TOUGHEST finishes on the market (that's why you go with factory finished...for the TOUGH finish). The UV cured urethane is a ho-hum type of finish. Average would be the best way to describe it.

The thickness of the plank is 3/4" = normal for sold. The plank width is 5" with random lengths UPTO 60" (5ft). That tells me there will be many planks in the 3' - 4' range. Again, this is ho-hum average. And with a wide plank product, it will need "glue assist". And Hickory certainly needs it because it has a bit more movement (less stable) than white oak.

And then there is the "low gloss" format. The low-gloss finish on this depth of colour = nightmare to live with. It will show dust, etc as well as oily foot prints, sock prints, paw prints and will look hazy at certain times during the day. The "haze" is part of the chemical make up of the finish itself = that's how they take away the gloss...they haze it with a chemical additive. The haze goes away when you sand and refinish the floor. That's the only way to fix it.

If you must have a mid-tone floor, I would recommend a TOUGHER finish (aluminum oxide or ceramic infused polyurethane) in a satin. Satin is FAR MORE livable. It offers a lovely glow without being shiny. It hides skin oils (like paw prints from dogs) because it is the same gloss level as skin oils....it isn't hazy....you get the idea.
zaccaii
3 years ago
floorfreak: thanks for being so helpful! i am looking at installing 3000+ sq ft and have decided on engineered hardwood with factory finish, now to choose which one! i am drawn to Shaw extreme nature wide plank but Shaw has some terrible reviews on some of their products, do you happen to have any feedback for the above product?
PRO
Oak & Broad
3 years ago
zaccaii , there are boutique products that are available made to order for less than $10 per SQ FT. Just something to consider. The quality is going to be much higher too!
Kirsten E.
3 years ago
Do any of you have experience with Paramount Flooring?

https://www.paramountflooring.com/products/engineered-hardwood/lakeshore/
PRO
Oak & Broad
3 years ago
Kirsten Eloise , I do not but look at those plank lengths in the product. Will that look good in your living space? 1'-4' and 1'-6' .
Rick Benak
2 years ago
JUST DONT GO WITH NATURALLY AGED FLOORING. THEY ARE THE WORST

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/3901809/problems-with-engineered-flooring-splintering-and-more#n=29

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