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solid hardwood vs. engineered hardwood

2 years ago

renovating my entire first floor and torn between solid hardwood and engineered hardwood. we like white oak. we 2 kids and hopefully adding a dog a few years down the road. does solid hardwood hold up best?

is there a massive difference cost wise?

thank you!

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PRO

Oak & Broad

2 years ago

kmoriarty25 , Some Engineered is actually more expensive than Solid flooring. Also keep in mind that just because a floor is Engineered does not mean its prefinished. Here is a helpful Engineered flooring diagram. Here is a great article on how to pick a good Engineered floor.

Educational Plank Flooring Examples · More Info

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Comments (20)

Kirsten E.
2 years ago
There’s a wide range of prices in each category, but based on my research for our build, generally speaking solid hardwood is more expensive. That being said, I’m sure you could find an engineered hardwood that is more expensive than a solid, but it would probably be a low quality solid with a lot of variation. Price depends on a lot of factors: plank width and length, site finished or pre-finished, thickness. Online price comparison shopping was helpful for me :)
Milo Pompeii
2 years ago
Do a search on the topic. Determine your parameters based upon your location, humidity, room for a sub-floor or no, etc.

If engineered is called for, go for 3/4 inch with 1/4 veneer. That will provide refinish options and frequency similar to regular hardwoods on a sub-floor. That will eliminate quite a few brands of engineered, though.
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Engineered Hardwood versus Hardwood
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Comments (23)
ok, this is an area where I actually know something! I sold and spec'ed hardwood for a custom shop before my mommy-life. The information you are getting here is correct. Engineered floors will give you 1-2 refinishings ON A PERFECT SUBFLOOR. One of the issues that sometimes arises if there are inconsistanies in the height of your subfloor. Because there is thinner wood wearlayer (before you get to the engineered wood) there is the chance that you can damage the floor irreparably when you sand it. Now I only saw this saw this happen twice, once on a loft job and once in an older home. The loft was more subtle as it was over concrete, the old house more obvious as they were DIYers and picked engineered flooring to try to negate their irregular subfloor (they neglected to tell us that that was why they chose engineered, we would have talked them out of it had we seen the floor first) Neither of their claims to the manufacturer were fully settled because both times they did not follow the guidelines for floor prep. The loft job was also a materials only job for us with their GC laying the floors but he insisted he knew what he was doing. A good engineered floor will not be cheaper than most of your nail down options because the production costs are higher. Now having said that, GOOD engineered floors certainly have their place in places where you can't put traditional hardwood due to height restrictions or concrete subfloors. My boss had a great engineered floor in his basement and it survived a flood remarkably well (it was ash, Kahrs brand out of Scandinavia and one of the beefier engineered floors and one of the pioneers) My Grandmother also had a Kahrs floor in her ground suite condo and she LOVED it and I was impressed by the milling. I'm considering it for our basement because it's warmer and less echo-y than laminate There has been a lot of 2nd rate engineered flooring coming out of China and being labeled for all sorts of different companies. You should be able to tell an engineered sample because the layers are sandwiched together and the tongue will be a different wood than the top (showing) layer. Distressed finishes are usually more expensive because of the extra step in manufacturing to make it distressed. That is different than just getting a lower grade of hardwood like a rustic or tavern grade (in solid hardwood). Those grades have more character but they often don't carry a warranty and generally have a higher waste percentage. Another thing to think about---if you ever have to replace part of the floor, you will always be able to replicate 3/4" thick hardwood but engineered floors are more like tile, they change and get discontinued over the years. You could go pre-finished, save the hassle of site finishing but with the thicker wear-layer a 3/4" nail down floor offers. Only you will know if you can handle beveling or not. The changes in milling the last 10 years are huge. The bevel in your better milled wood is tiny. I like Canadian mills, Model or Mirage for pre-finished. Remember that if you ever re-finish, the bevel will disappear and you will, essentially have a site finished floor. One benefit that many people don't know about? With a prefinished tongue and grooved floor you can have a good installer cut out a single board (or more) from your floor if it gets damaged which is why we did a fair bit of pre-finished in new homes since inevitably we would get call-backs at move in to repair trade damage (@#$%^ plumbers and their big wrenches!). Prefinished hardwood deals the best with shinkage and expansion issues because the finish is on individual boards. Site finished floors are more labor intensive but the materials are cheaper (apples to apples). They are what many people consider the gold standard however there are more steps and you don't always know how it's going to look until it's done. There is more chance of finish contamination and trade damage during the rest of the building process. We refinished 100 year old floors. I loved the idea that there wasn't 4 generations of carpet and crap in the landfill. Definitely a forever floor and it can usually be re-sanded for all but the very worst water damage (think entire house under water for a few days) If you are going with a wide plank, keep in mind your species and humidity level (and your ability to keep humidity stable). The wider the plank (with 3/4" thick flooring), the more obvious shrinking and expanding will be. If you take a 2" wide board and it shrinks 2%, it isn't very noticeable. If you take a 6" wide board and it shrinks 2% the gaping will be more noticeable and in the case of a site finished floor *could* pull your finish apart. You'll need to find a flooring contractor in your area with lots of experience. Most of the best hardwood shops ONLY do hardwood. Beware of carpet shops and many of the big box stores in many instances. Make sure they are accredited with the NWFA (national wood flooring association) http://www.nwfa.org/member/ good luck!
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SJ McCarthy, our contract is stated we are responsible for the materials and we pay for the labor. Unfortunately we never met nor discuss with the owner but only discussed in details ( in the proposal) with the project manager who is the solely the carpenter.) We just found out there were a lot of the DETAILS from the proposal were not explained (per the PM,but who knows) in detail to the owner or almost like "bait and switch" - for example like item #2- he spent more time because the owner did not get him another helper to help him- I told him this should not be the customer's expenses-Anyway we are willing to pay for it. The owner was offering to renew and establish a new contract from the original contact ( we felt that he cherry picking the items from the proposal, we marked them up then again he decided not to included) for the unfinished works . Once he agreed in our 2nd meeting (another example: he agreed tiling our study room to be included from the original contact in our 1st meeting then when he write the REVISED CONTRACT- he wants to charge us ), but again we are facing the same old stories-he tried to change the wording. We were burned so many times and now we diligently review line by line knowing the owner's personality. He kept saying he lived by the contract-then I told him then he should honor the low estimated to install our engineering hardwood floor including removing the carpet-in the end he says he would honor but he did not including the cost in the new REVISED contract which we add into it - we are so tired with his games. So now we put a contingency - once we agree with the new contract, no more additional expenses from the previous work was done- and we do agree that we need to be notified first and need both signatures for additional expenses from the new contract. and no more point finger of "not included" since we have discussed in detailed and are in the contract. The new addition has a hardwood floor installed - with Dri-core. Once hardwood floor was installed- they are some areas squeak- we were told by PM -put a marked up then he would fasten without explaining to us-these would be additional ridiculous charges (PM told the owner, too-we told PM that they should explain it to us- ) Regarding the installing the engineering hardwood floor is for our existing rooms(concrete slabs that has plywood already)- we are told just to put a vapour barrier. Is it possible to let me know what brands for the glues have to be moisture resistant ($2/sf) or moisture PROOF ($3/sf).? The manufacture instruction suggests to use Franklin Tongue and Groove adhesive (cross linking polyaliphactic emulsion glue) www.titebond.com -any suggestions? This Applachian engineering hardwood floor - FLOATING only needs GLUE between the wood (tongue and groove per the manufacture manual ) then would be FLOAT - this is not to be GLUE DOWN on our concrete floor (could be glue down if necessary but not in our case). Here is the website- on PAGE 9 http://www.appalachianflooring.com/uploads/general/documents/engineered-installation-guide.pdf We trust the PM and we pay for it- we just want to move on and complete the project-It has been almost 10 months. We have to do what we have to do to protect ourselves now- The owner refuses to install our towel bar in our new shower without charging us, and we told him we will take care them by ourselves. I will update this post and hoping for a better solution. Thank you
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I too cannot see the savings of remove+replace. A sand/refinish averages $5/sf. It is minimally disruptive (ie. it does NOT involve demolition) and it will cure in 10 days (assuming you are using a high-end water based finish). Now an engineered hardwood is SUPPOSED to be more expensive than solid. Yah. I said it. Engineered (same cut, width, thickness, installation method) should be more expensive than solid. Hmmmmmm. My spidy senses are tingling. Now on to the cost of hardwood upstairs. Carpet removal/disposal = $1.50 - $2/sf (depends on where you live). Repair and prepare the wooden subfloors (usually 'bad' underneath carpet...carpet hides the WORST subfloors) $2-$4/sf. Yep. Just ASSUME you will be spending $3/sf for the subfloor prep upstairs. Now for the cost of solid hardwood (regular 3" width) = $5/sf. Installation + finishing = $3-$4/sf. Right. A regular solid hardwood (nothing special) with install = $8 - $10/sf. Now compare that to a 'sand and refinish' of $5/sf. Wow. It is CHEAPER to do the sand and refinish. Hmmmm. Now imagine the COST of demolition for the HARDWOOD....yep. You can add MORE to that cost. And again the subfloors have to be looked at. More costs. Now imagine the cost of a MORE EXPENSIVE engineered hardwood....$8 - $12/sf for material only. Installation is extra ($3-$4/sf for factory finished hardwood). I tell ya. The $5/sf sand/refinish is looking REALLY GOOD right now. Ignore the width of the planks. They are classic and are probably appropriate for the age of the home. It is your money and your home. If you believe an engineered hardwood is CHEAPER than $5/sf sand and refinish (including install and subfloor preparation) then you are welcome to find out the reality of the situation. We are going to tell you the 'cheap' wide plank engineered hardwood is not going to give you the 'life expectancy' that a 'regular' 3" wide solid hardwood ($5/sf material). It just won't.
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My home has had floating laminate plank flooring for nearly a decade. The finish is still flawless, and I love it. It is very easy for the care routine, just vacuum and spot clean with water.
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Express Flooring
2 years ago
In my opinion, Engineered Wood Flooring offers more stability and it looks good. It is best for kids and pets as well. So, i recommend Engineered wood flooring.
floorfreak
2 years ago
Slab foundation or Crawl space?
kmoriarty25
Original Author
2 years ago
going over basement and for majority and crawl space for 8 feet (which accounts for the addition that's going on)
floorfreak
2 years ago
You could do either solid OR Engineered. Make sure the 8' crawl space area has an 8 mil (black) polyethylene plastic installed over the soil to keep the area under the home dry. You'd also have to make sure a barrier was installed in the basement as well. I've read where people put plastic on the joists and others have sprayed something on the underside.

The obvious advantage with solid is you can sand and refinish if you ever want to and with solids you've got two options.

1) Site-finished which would be raw wood that's stained on site with a few coats of polyurethane to finish it out. The benefit is you can pick the exact color and look you want but the big drawback is the finish would not last nearly as long as a commercially manufactured product that you'd purchase at a retailer.

2) Pre-finished floors that you buy from a local shop are typically finished out with a layer of aluminum oxide which makes the finish harder and more scratch-resistant (they generally hold up longer).

Either way you can sand and refinish at any time but given the fact that doing so can be a daunting and costly task and it isn't usually desirable.

Engineered floors are veneered but when they're laid down, it's virtually impossible to tell the difference. They are more moisture-stable meaning you'll have less gaps both post-installation and when seasons change over the years. That said, most engineered products cannot be refinished but they are typically more cost-effective than solids.

Either floor should hold up fine with kids, they will get their knicks and dings and you can generally conceal the damage with furniture pens. Damage from pets is generally dependent on the size of the animal and how much you maintain their hygiene. If they're small dogs and cats, you'll likely have no issues. For medium-to-larger animals... regular pet maintenance will go a long way to ensuring the floors experience minimum damage.

I'd be fine with either one but long term, depending on your pet choice, you may get more mileage out of solid hardwood.
kmoriarty25
Original Author
2 years ago
thanks floorfreak. that was INCREDIBLY helpful. a lot of options out there and my head was spinning a bit when went to the floor shop today. appreciate the advice. I think we will go with prefinished solid hardwood, sounds like best of both worlds there. thank you again!
floorfreak
2 years ago
YW, LMK what samples you're looking at and I might be able to steer you in the right direction.
kmoriarty25
Original Author
2 years ago
floorfreak - went to flooring store today, took home samples of: Armstrong Great Plains Solid Hardwood, Chesapeake Greystone solid hickory hardwood and Armstrong Cascade solid hardwood. we don't want anything too dark or light, something sort of middle of the road. intrigued by hickory as the graining isn't as pronounced as the oak. husband is concerned the cascade has too much gray too it.
Rupali k
2 years ago
Thanks kmoriarty25 for starting this thread. I am in same boat as of you. We are planning to go with nice quality product as its not easy to change it, So I brought sample of PROVENZA FLOORS, American & Guild, Paramount, Bella Cera products. I am so confused with so many brands and type of wood and would appreciate hand in right direction.
floorfreak
2 years ago
kmoriarty25, glad to be of assistance. Hickory is slightly harder than oak and does have a thinner, albeit somewhat similar grain. Armstrong makes great products, I don't sell them direct but they do make some of the products that we sell private label. I'm not in to shameless promotion but If interested, you can message me and I might be able to help you out with something similar... same goes for everyone else.
Rupali k
2 years ago
One of the seller informed me that Armstrong has sold their flooring to non-flooring retailers. So the future of the Armstrong engineered wood brand is not certain.
kmoriarty25
Original Author
2 years ago
thanks floorfreak!
SJ McCarthy
2 years ago
I'm a fan of Hickory. Love it! I love it's STRONG variation! Yep. Variation is the word that can be used for Hickory. If you are going for "mid-tone" then it means the Hickory is stained. No problem. That's fine. Hickory takes a stain very nicely. But it will still have plenty of variation. The stain will even that out a little bit, but not entirely.

The finish is UV cured urethane. I'm not very excited about that finish. If you are going for factory finish, you will want to work with the TOUGHEST finishes on the market (that's why you go with factory finished...for the TOUGH finish). The UV cured urethane is a ho-hum type of finish. Average would be the best way to describe it.

The thickness of the plank is 3/4" = normal for sold. The plank width is 5" with random lengths UPTO 60" (5ft). That tells me there will be many planks in the 3' - 4' range. Again, this is ho-hum average. And with a wide plank product, it will need "glue assist". And Hickory certainly needs it because it has a bit more movement (less stable) than white oak.

And then there is the "low gloss" format. The low-gloss finish on this depth of colour = nightmare to live with. It will show dust, etc as well as oily foot prints, sock prints, paw prints and will look hazy at certain times during the day. The "haze" is part of the chemical make up of the finish itself = that's how they take away the gloss...they haze it with a chemical additive. The haze goes away when you sand and refinish the floor. That's the only way to fix it.

If you must have a mid-tone floor, I would recommend a TOUGHER finish (aluminum oxide or ceramic infused polyurethane) in a satin. Satin is FAR MORE livable. It offers a lovely glow without being shiny. It hides skin oils (like paw prints from dogs) because it is the same gloss level as skin oils....it isn't hazy....you get the idea.
zaccaii
2 years ago
floorfreak: thanks for being so helpful! i am looking at installing 3000+ sq ft and have decided on engineered hardwood with factory finish, now to choose which one! i am drawn to Shaw extreme nature wide plank but Shaw has some terrible reviews on some of their products, do you happen to have any feedback for the above product?
PRO
Oak & Broad
2 years ago
zaccaii , there are boutique products that are available made to order for less than $10 per SQ FT. Just something to consider. The quality is going to be much higher too!
Kirsten E.
2 years ago
Do any of you have experience with Paramount Flooring?

https://www.paramountflooring.com/products/engineered-hardwood/lakeshore/
PRO
Oak & Broad
2 years ago
Kirsten Eloise , I do not but look at those plank lengths in the product. Will that look good in your living space? 1'-4' and 1'-6' .
Rick Benak
last year
JUST DONT GO WITH NATURALLY AGED FLOORING. THEY ARE THE WORST

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/3901809/problems-with-engineered-flooring-splintering-and-more#n=29

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