My take on the shutdown

bry911

In so many ways I just don't understand the politics of this event, and I largely suspect this is Trump shooting from the hip. I just don't see a win for Republicans on this shutdown, and the President has largely backed the Republicans into a corner that they can't get out of politically.


I can't find a Democratic loss in this and I have tried, because I would have done things differently. I personally think the Democrats should have walked in and immediately ended the shutdown and claimed they were governing responsibly.


If the Democrats hold fast until the president caves and signs the deal they have, the great negotiator will be seen as someone who couldn't even get something that he invested so much effort in.


If the President holds fast until the Democrats cave then he has to prove it was worth it.


If the Democrats negotiate some benefit for the shutdown, such as DACA, they will score a double victory.


If the Republicans break with the President they will get slaughtered as the reason for not having a wall.


If the Republicans stick with the President they will get slaughtered for not governing.


Through all of this the Democrats can keep reminding Americans that this wasn't a Democratic deal, this was a Republican President rejecting a Republican bill.


I suspect Democrats believe the shutdown is going to crush the Republicans, which I agree with. Eventually, they are going to give Trump the 5 billion for the wall in a deal that will help them save a bit of political face (like a DACA deal). In the 18 months between the shutdown and the next election cycle ramping up, nothing is going to happen on the wall. The only areas that can see any construction progress in the next 18 months are areas where the existing barricades are the most efficient.


Democrats are going to hammer that issue again and again, they are going to point out that the emergency that shut the government down was to spend time planning to maybe one day start wall construction. They are going to bask in the pointlessness of this shutdown and the Republicans can't win that issue, because they physically can't get enough wall built in this budget cycle to make this shutdown work in their favor.

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mrskjun(9)

Trump has offered DACA over and over again. How would that be a victory for the dems?

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sunflower_petal(5a)

" Trump has offered DACA over and over again."

I don't think he has. Do you have some link proving that he did? (Not to mention that he has walked back on several things so it is really kind of hard to trust his word.)

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dandyfopp

Donnie is doing what has been obvious from the beginning.

Burning everything down to save himself. He is just getting warmed up.

The future is blue.

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bry911

Trump has offered DACA over and over again. How would that be a victory for the dems?

There are several versions of DACA proposals and really that isn't the victory. The shutdown is the victory.

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Stan Areted


margievank

And will the DEMS take responsibility for every death that takes place from the result of what crosses over the border illegally?


Not if past behavior predicts future behavior, margievank.

Democrats don't take any responsiblity, only credit, and if there is responsibility for something involved, it's always dumped on someone else, it's someone else's fault, they're a victim or someone else is a victim of the people that call them out on their lies.

It is the one thing you can count on from democrats.

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sunflower_petal(5a)

Is Trump taking responsibility for all the downturns in lives affected by the shutdown? People who might lose their businesses, their farms, their homes? People trying to feed their families?

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bry911

And will the DEMS take responsibility for every death that takes place from the result of what crosses over the border illegally?

I suspect they will point out that increases in border security that were immediately effective, such as electronic surveillance, would have prevented more illegal immigration than replacing a few existing barricades, leaving the areas with the highest concentration of illegal border crossings unguarded.

Of course, they could also use facts to counteract the assertion in the first place. Such as channeling that money into domestic violence prevention and relief would have prevented a lot more deaths.

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sunflower_petal(5a)

" Such as channeling that money into domestic violence prevention and relief would have prevented a lot more deaths."


Yep, someone doesn't look at the big picture. There are categories of death and harm that are way bigger than this.




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chase_gw

Mrs, Trump had not offered DACA for funding. He did agree to a DACA deal that have him $25B for border security but he reneged. To my knowledge he has never offered a clean DACA compromise since.

I could be wrong, if so please provide information to the contrary.

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arthurpym

Trump has offered DACA over and over again. How would that be a victory for the dems?

More fake news.

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sunflower_petal(5a)

" I just don't see a win for Republicans on this shutdown"

Thanks for this post, bry. I also don't see a positive way out of it for Trump and his supporters. I'm sure a lot of conservatives are wincing at what their party has become while Trump supporters cheer the downward slide like they were on a roller-coaster.

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Keep in mind that there is a distinction between monies intended for maintaining the current fences and for improving what we already have (more border police, electronic methods, etc.) and monies intended to build the president's big 30 ft high concrete wall (which seems to be morphing into a really tall steel shaft fence).

The first kind of monies have been included in all the proposals, if I remember correctly--but the second type of monies were never included.

Its the second type that the arguments are all about.

Kate

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Kathy

Through all of this the Democrats can keep reminding Americans that this wasn't a Democratic deal, this was a Republican President rejecting a Republican bill.


This is why McConnell will not bring it to a vote. He knows it would pass. He is preventing an over ride of the veto if Trump refuses to sign it.

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mayflowers

Mueller's report could change a lot of things. Rosenstein is planning to exit around March 1, after Mueller releases his report. This could drag out until then. Who in Congress would be willing to support a criminal president when most of them have never really wanted the wall?

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dandyfopp

Do we think it is possible that Putin could laugh himself to death?

Maybe?



https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/01/fbi-agents-say-shutdown-threatens-national-security/580039/

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Ziemia(6a)

Expanding the infrastructure that examines the vehicles crossing borders (and entering ports} would save lots of lives including in places with high unemployment. And the number of saved lives would be significant.

As would have doing more to expand drug treatment - including providing it in jails and prisons (most provide no or little treatment).

Drug addiction takes many lives and has a multiplier impact on crime.

TrumpFans will count those killed by persons here without documentation. Others will count those from drug abuse and tainted food and climate change.


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chase_gw

The Coast Guard is instrumental in intercepting illegal drugs.......yet the group is currently unfunded and working without pay.

Maybe I missed it, but how much money is Trump demanding to upgrade their equipment and expand their capabilities given their key role in intercepting drugs ?

Take a look at where , and how , most drugs enter the States and then let's compare that to the demands Trump is making for money to solve the illicit drug problem.

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Fárbauti

Sometimes you have to set aside the politics and stand up for what's right. The American people voted for and deserve border security. During the visit to the border in Texas the patrol agent said the apprehended people from 41 countries the previous day - including people from the middle east, eastern Europe etc. And that's the ones they caught, who knows how many got through undetected. People from all over the world pouring in. It has to stop. I don't understand why Democrats don't want to protect this country.

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jerzeegirl(9b)

The American people voted for and deserve border security.

I don't remember that vote.

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Kathy

Border security includes all borders, not just a wall. Trump wants a wall. That is why he shut down the government.

There are many people,from different countries who cross the border everyday, at the ports of entry. Apprehended is not arrested. It means stopped for questioning because of random reasons.

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Kathy

Farbauti, Democrats want to protect this country. Your opinion is off base. We want comprehensive immigration reform. We want the government reopened because right now our security is threatened at airports, sea and land.

Republicans want a wall for political reasons. To protect Trump. Think about protecting America first.

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Joaniepoanie

margievank

And will the DEMS take responsibility for every death that takes place from the result of what crosses over the border illegally?

-----------

Why do Trump supporters talk like even if a wall is approved today it will be built in a week and the current "national emergency/crisis" will be solved by the end of the month?

Even if a wall is approved, it's going to take years because it will be held up by lots of lawsuits----environmental, homeowners, etc....Trump, and a lot of us, will be long gone by then.

Here's a question for Trump supporters......if you wanted to secure your home would you build a 20' wall around it or purchase a security system? (Assuming neighbors or your HOA would not object to a wall).

And wouldn't it be delicious if all the federal workers who did not get paid today sent their bills to Trump?!




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Fárbauti

I don't remember that vote.

You don't remember November 8th 2016?We had 2 candidates, one who ran on border security including a wall and one that dreamed of open borders. The candidate who ran on border security won.

Apprehended is not arrested. It means stopped for questioning because of random reasons.

Feel free to watch the clip on Youtube. He was talking about illegal crossers. Trying to twist the reality so you don't have to face the facts is not helpful.

Raul Ortiz, a local border patrol official, told Trump and reporters that 133 people from countries other than Mexico and those in central America - including India, Pakistan, China and Romania - had been apprehended in the stretch of territory around McAllen.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-shutdown/trump-threatens-to-use-emergency-power-to-build-wall-end-shutdown-idUSKCN1P416X


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Fárbauti

We want the government reopened because right now our security is threatened at airports, sea and land.

Republicans want a wall for political reasons. To protect Trump. Think about protecting America first.

Great. Let's reopen the government, with funding for a wall. Doesn't have to be 5 billion, let's do 3. Problem solved, everyone is happy. The budget is in the trillions. 3 billions is almost nothing. Let's get it done.

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dandyfopp

Or Donnie could start spending the money he already has.

Why hasn't he done that again?




https://twitter.com/NickMiroff/status/1083734523026784257

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Kathy

The House passed a package on Thursday night that would fully reopen the government by funding the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) through Feb. 8 and the rest of the government through the end of the fiscal year.

But Trump has threatened to veto it and McConnell has pledged that he will not move it, or any other government funding bill, without Trump's support.

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Fárbauti

It's pretty dumb to compare amount seized at ports of entry with amounts seized over thousands of miles of open border, where you only catch a small portion of them and the rest get through.

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Fárbauti

Kathy, I believe they forgot the funding for the wall in that package.

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Kathy

Border Security is part of DHS. You made my point. Government is closed purely for a political wall and our security is threatened as a result.

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Fárbauti

That's right, the wall is purely a political issue for the Democrats. They voted for it not too long ago, now because it's Trump they will not. They are putting politics ahead of the needs of the country - and the country needs a wall to stop the influx of illegals.

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Kathy

https://www.usatoday.com/border-wall/story/drug-trafficking-smuggling-cartels-tunnels/559814001/


Drug shootouts. Smugglers scrambling down the canyons. When congressmen wanted tours of the area, they’d have to see it from the window of a helicopter because Border Patrol couldn’t guarantee their safety.

Then came the fences. One perimeter, then a secondary. The fences helped the Border Patrol reclaim this little sliver of the country.

But the fences did not stop the drug smuggling. With a near-infinite supply of money and resources on the other side, drugs continue to move under, around and through anything the country builds.

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chase_gw

If one was honest they would admit that the previous votes for extended fencing included amnesty for 11 million in 2013 and DACA citizenship in 2017.

It wasn't a one sided deal.......if one was honest.

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chase_gw

The border agent yesterday told Trump most of the drugs come through border entry points......he just choose to ignore that and say something different.

Another official showed him pictures of tunnels...which he also ignored.


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Fárbauti

I bet Trump is willing to talk DACA + wall. It could be done in 30 minutes. But Dems are unwilling to negotiate.

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Fárbauti

Another official showed him pictures of tunnels...which he also ignored.

Digging a tunnel and then going through it is a heck of a lot harder than simply walking across an unprotected border, which anyone can do. Is a wall/fence 100% impenetrable? No. Will it significantly reduce illegal crossings? Judging by the results we get from existing fencing and common sense - yes, by up to 90%.

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olliesmom(7)

Farbauti, proves how much Dems REALLY care about the Dreamers. That was a bunch of hogwash, wasn't it?

eta: I bet the Dreamers are praying for DACA+wall. But, Dems can't let Trump win, no matter if it would free the Dreamers.

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mayflowers

Trump wants $5.7 billion to fund 234 miles of border wall. That's one year's budget. He'll have to ask for more each year because the estimate to build the entire wall is $25 - $60 billion. It's not "almost nothing".

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chase_gw

Right...you go ahead and believe that.

He reneged on that very deal a few months ago. He made the deal, agreed to it and then folded when people like Miller got to him.

He would look darn foolish now taking the same deal from the Dems but for $5B instead of the $25B he had in his pocket then......some deal maker.


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Kathy

Trump would have to apologize and admit he was wrong. Never happen. He is boxed in.

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Pidge_

bry, thank you for your excellent OP, well written and comprehensive. You said a lot of what I've been thinking and wondering about.

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VedaBeeps SoCal 9b/10a(9b/10)


Fárbauti

6 minutes ago

Another official showed him pictures of tunnels...which he also ignored.

Digging a tunnel and then going through it is a heck of a lot harder than simply walking across an unprotected border, which anyone can do.


——-

I don’t know how long the border issue has been on your personal radar but I grew up in a border state and currently live in a different border state. Tunnels have been used for crossing for decades, generally dug by cartels and then used by people who pay to cross through the already existing tunnels.

My uncle worked on converting seized semi trucks into mobile radar stations that are used by border patrol.

The tunnels are very advanced- miles long on each side of the border, some contain rail systems used to move drugs and some can even be filled with water so radar sees them as underground rivers (common in the area,) so they go undetected until something else causes them to be found. Most people crossing aren’t getting to the border, digging a tunnel, and then crawling through it like some kind of Wile E Coyote cartoon. I do know there are shallow tunnels under the wall sections too- the people crossing know that there are long stretches of time between when areas are checked and they take advantage of that time. Only technology and more personnel can fix that, not more wall.

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Kathy

The movie Sicario was enlightening.

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Fárbauti

People aren’t getting to the border, digging a tunnel, and then crawling through it like some kind of Wile E Coyote cartoon.

Exactly. Which is why a wall would be effective. Much more difficult to get people in through miles long tunnels than to simply walk over an open border. I don't expect 100% efficiency out of a wall, but if we can reduce crossings by 70% that would be a huge success.

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GOD

What's amazing is that trump wants to be given money and he has no written documentation on what he's going to do!


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mayflowers

I can imagine his bankers thinking the same thing, GOD.

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VedaBeeps SoCal 9b/10a(9b/10)

Exactly. Which is why a wall would be effective. Much more difficult to get people in through miles long tunnels than to simply walk over an open border



You’re saying that its easier to cross in difficult open terrain where you might be seen than in tunnels that are hidden, protected and have the means to move people and drugs quickly. That’s some Trumper twisted logic!

ETA a pic, I’m expecting company so I’ll try to read again later.

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bry911

That's right, the wall is purely a political issue for the Democrats.

Possibly, but the shutdown is purely a political issue for Trump.

I came from capital project development (oil industry), and I can tell you that Trump has more than enough money to plan a wall and begin the procurement process, which is going to be a multi-year process.

He has no specific plan for the money because he has no specific plan at all, that is why he couldn't spend the money he already had. If he was really interested in a wall he would have spent the money and started a real plan for a barricade, and possibly started condemnation procedures in areas where required. Even allowing a second term he would not be president when those issues were resolved but at least he would have made substantive contribution to a border wall.

But he isn't interested in stopping illegal immigration, he is interested in a message that his supporters want. You might genuinely care about border security and a wall, but President Trump does not, he just understands that you do.

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Fárbauti

You’re saying that its easier to cross in difficult open terrain where
you might be seen than in tunnels that are hidden, protected and have
the means to move people and drugs quickly.

Half a million illegals that get apprehended each year crossing in the open think so. Maybe no one told them about how much easier the tunnels are? Unless you think there's many many more crossing via tunnels and the situation is much worse than the numbers show.

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olliesmom(7)

I guess the over 400 that tried to cross yesterday didn’t use the tunnels.

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studio10001

F, he lost that vote in 2016. He won the electoral college vote, which is not the same thing. . Nobody on the electoral college was ever quoted as saying they were voting for a wall, and Americans have not voted for a wall. The majority voted against. They voted against again in 2018.

F, 45 did not run on border security. He has yet to make or agree to any proposal involving border security. He has shut down the gov't, and thereby decreased border security. He has taken funding from these areas that provide us with national security: the FBI, the National Guard, Homeland Security, Border Patrol and Secret Services. He has weakened the justice dept. and slowed down deportations. He has shown no interest in border security, just budget for a wall, with no specifics. Any discussion involving border security or a functioning government has thus far been met with belligerence.

F, He ran on a slogan with no policy behind it. That is why there is no engagement with the Dems - there is nothing behind the motto, and 2 years in, the president has not yet done the work needed to begin his end of the discussion. That should be pretty easy to understand, but you can keep blaming everyone but him if you like.

Perhaps I can also help you understand what I hear, as a democrat, being said by 45: " Write me a check, and you can have your government restored. I may build a cement wall, maybe some slats, but maybe you don't need to know any details, and best just give me what I'm demanding."


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katrina_ellen

I have seen for myself illegals crossing a narrow river in Texas to get to the US. They hide in the bushes til night, really they don't need to hide , there was no border security around to cover the area. At night they cross. Boom bada bing - they are in the states. No problamo. A wall would have helped.

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chase_gw

Wow....why didn't you call border patrol ?

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katrina_ellen

Nobody would have cared chase.

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studio10001

If nobody cares, then definitely don't build a wall. :)

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dandyfopp

Thanks Bry for answering the question that Donnie fans avoid like the plague.

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bry911

I have seen for myself illegals crossing a narrow river in Texas to get to the US. They hide in the bushes til night, really they don't need to hide , there was no border security around to cover the area. At night they cross. Boom bada bing - they are in the states. No problamo. A wall would have helped.

Assuming your statement is correct (which I am not), can you please tell us specifically how the $5+ billion will address that problem. Has Trump actually began the condemnation procedures that were previously funded in your area? Has Trump actually submitted a design for your area, or even funded a design that will meet the specific requirements of your area?

Again, there is no plan to build a wall. NONE! There is a promise to develop a plan with this money. Previous monies for said development went unspent with little, if any, progress made.

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chase_gw

Border Patrol wouldn't have cared ? Were you in a house overlooking the river ? Who owned the property you were on watching this ? Or were just on a stroll?

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katrina_ellen

Nobody cared because it happened on a daily basis, they didn't have the ability to stop it.

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chase_gw

Exactly bry, no plan, no comprehensive strategy, no cost benefit analysis, no other solution to a very complex issue other than ..." give me money to do what, I want ' cause I said I would...and that's reason enough "

Had I ever gone to my executive with a " plan" like that I would have been fired.....and that's what's going to happen to him.

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katrina_ellen

Not that its any of your business chase, but I was camping nearby because we were traveling the frugal way - you know or I suppose you don't, with a beat up car and sleeping bags and low on gas. I really don't give 2 cents if you believe me bry and chase.

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GOD

A wall just stops people from crossing back and forth. Historically the immigrant workers came and left. We've just locked them in

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chase_gw

Wonder why none, not one, of the Congressional representatives representing the border districts are coming or in support of Trump's idea.

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bry911

I really don't give 2 cents if you believe me bry and chase.

When did I say I didn't believe you?

ETA: You told a story (which I find believable) and then said "A wall would have helped" which is a statement that I don't agree with.

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GOD

The senate is not the servant of trump

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mayflowers

Do you know why they won't even look at the facts? They don't matter because what they really want is a win for trump. This $5.7 billion is not really a down payment on the wall but a down payment on his reelection campaign. The urgency of the sudden "crisis" is that he needs to have the wall in progress for the campaign--something tangible to show them. Their motivation isn't even illegal immigration--what they really want is another trump term because of the likelihood that several more SC seats will open in the 2020 term. That's all this is about. All the arguments for and against the wall are pointless.

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Joaniepoanie

Bingo mayflowers!

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jn3344

Republicans had tge house, senate, and presidency for 2 years. Funding could have been appropriated at any time. But it wasnt.

Democrats offered DACA for money for the wall. That deal was accepted, but then almost immediately rejected. How can you negotiate if oneside is completely erratic?

What is Trump offering Democrats? Nothing. So what is there to compromise over?

People on this thread seem to think the option is border security or....nothing! That isn't it! We already spend tens of billions on "border security." But anyone who can afford a plane ticket can bypass the border.

Yes, the immigration system needs attention. Lets discuss that. In the meantime this shutdown has already cost us more than 5 billion. Can I get my passport renewed, please???

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bry911

This $5.7 billion is not really a down payment on the wall but a down payment on his reelection campaign.

This is why this is so crazy for me. It really isn't.

Trump can't get any real progress on a wall before the next election cycle. I don't even think he can even spend the money if given the $5+ billion. I think when the election rolls around he will have shut the government down for nothing and certainly nothing of value.


I don't think even Trump supporters are going to be fooled...


I simply don't think Trump can think past today's popularity to make it all the way to thinking about tomorrow, so thinking about an election more than a year away is far beyond his ability.

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bry911

*sigh* always under estimating Trump. Do you remember when you all were laughing when he threw his hat in the ring and ran for president. I do, because so many laughed at me for vocalizing my support. Some just never learn.

First, I predicted a Trump presidency early in the primaries. I never underestimate the voters.

Next, your response has nothing to do with my comment. I never said Trump can't or won't win reelection, I simply noted that he is far too stupid to think about that now. I feel sure that on the day the election rolls around he will have some message of bigotry and hate for people to connect with.

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Ann

"Wonder why none, not one, of the Congressional representatives representing the border districts are coming or in support of Trump's idea."

Oh boy, fact checking needed yet again. I'll see if I can verify this very declarative statement.

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bry911

I think you are to angry to be rational. Calm down.

I assure you that I am not either angry or irrational. In fact, I believe most of what I have posted has been well reasoned. I seriously believe Trump will roll out a message that many publicly deny and are secretly drawn to.

I think Trump is stupid, I think he has a short attention span and would rather be Hugh Hefner than president, but needs the adulation. However, please don't mistake my low regard for him as anger. I am not angry at Trump, he is who he is and has not gone to any great length to hide it. We got what we elected.

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chase_gw

Need to correct a misspell

"Not one, of the Congressional representatives representing the border districts are coming out in support of Trump's idea"


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bry911

We are not drawn to RACISM bry.

No one said you were drawn to racism.

There is plenty of evidence of the existence of racism in America today. Every Trump supporter need not be a racist for racists to influence the election.

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llucy

bry911: I seriously believe Trump will roll out a message that many publicly deny and are secretly drawn to.

I believe he will continue to campaign on his manufactured border crisis. It worked for him the first time and there is no way "the wall" will be built by the 2020 election.

Maybe he will revive the Muslim ban for his base as well. Despite the fact he said he was going to pull troops out of Syria because ISIS was finished.

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Ziemia(6a)

There are nine members of the House of Representatives whose districts lie along the US-Mexico border.

It is perhaps not surprising that the eight Democrats oppose President Donald Trump's signature campaign pledge.

But the one Republican congressman - whose district stretches for 820 miles (1,320km) along the border - is also hostile.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46815569

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Ann

It appears there are 9, 8 Democrats and 1 Republican (Hurd) and these 9 don't support additional physical barriers. So, that statement appears to be true according to MSM.

But, not the case with all governors and Senators in these border states. There are a few more Republicans in that mix - rather than 8 of 9 Dems as in the border Representatives mix.

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Ziemia(6a)

And as for the Senators from those border states (TX, NM, AZ, CA) - only two out of 8 support it - Cruz and McSally.

Nearly every lawmaker who represents a district or state along the U.S.-Mexico border — including two Republicans — either opposes outright or more quietly declines to support President Donald Trump’s $5.7 billion request for a border wall, according to a survey conducted by POLITICO.


The dissenters include Texas Rep. Will Hurd, the only Republican House member who represents a border district, and Texas Sen. John Cornyn, who will accompany the president on Thursday. Cornyn dodged questions Wednesday about whether he backs Trump’s $5.7 billion demand.


https://www.politico.com/story/2019/01/10/border-lawmakers-spurn-trump-wall-proposal-1071707

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Ann

As far as "Wonder why", I think Hurd is the only one we might be wondering about:)

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Ziemia(6a)

I wouldn't include BBC in MSM

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chase_gw

Ann, I did not say anything about govenors or senators.......your attack on my post was unwarranted. You should do your homework first rather than let your emotions get in front.

Whether they are Dems or Republicans isn't as important as the fact they represent the residents of these border communities who do not support the wall. It's the Trump supporters in Iowa , Kansas and apparently Colorado saying what should happen in the backyards of others.




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dandyfopp


What could be the rea$on??


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Ziemia(6a)

I was surprised by Sen Cornyn not going all in on supporting the Wall. He is up for election in 2020

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chase_gw

I think it may be because his constituents are State wide and there is a move blue in Texas.

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Ann

Cornyn and Sinema are both not voicing their opinions. The rest of the border Senators are sticking with their party position.

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chase_gw

Not voicing his opinion is tantamount to not supporting Trump....

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Ann

"Ann, I did not say anything about govenors or senators.......your attack on my post was unwarranted. You should do your homework first rather than let your emotions get in front."

Well, it wasn't an attack but simply something I've learned from experience. In this case you were right. Last time, you weren't. So, I guess you should do your homework before posting and I should do my homework before challenging.

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Ann

"I wouldn't include BBC in MSM"

I didn't. I looked at MSM sources. You, apparently, looked at BBC.

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Ziemia(6a)

Hmmm

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Ann

Chris Wallace just described something currently being discussed as one possibility in Washington right now. He said there is talk of reopening the government for 3 weeks and, if Congress hasn't been able to reach agreement by the end of that 3 weeks, a national emergency will be declared. As I said, it's not yet a decision, but a current discussion.

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GOD

The senate votes on the legislation that has already passed the house.

Then Trump signs it

There's no national emergency.

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chase_gw

That would mean having all Congress basically agree that there is a national emergency.....don't see that happening

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steve2416

bry911, thank you for your informed opinion drawn on experience. I just know he has a history and reputation for cheating his contractors and breaking his word to all of us repeatedly. I wouldn't give him 2 one cent pieces to rub together!

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nickel_kg(6)

bry911, this is where I disagree with you -- where you said "I don't think even Trump supporters are going to be fooled..."

I believe absolutely his supporters will (continue to) be fooled by Trump's proclaiming he has a plan, when in reality all he has is slogans ... who could know health insurance could be so complicated, etc.

If he ends up "winning" by declaring an emergency and starting the legal battles, so much the better for his 2020 campaign rallies. Democrats can still pull defeat from the jaws of victory (darn it all).

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GOD


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llucy

GOD,

That should be played as a public service announcement over and over and over.

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jillinnj

You don't remember November 8th 2016?We had 2 candidates, one who ran on border security including a wall and one that dreamed of open borders.

Didn't take long for you to show us that you will lie in attempt to prove a point.

Nobody ran on open borders.

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Ann

"If he ends up "winning" by declaring an emergency and starting the legal battles, so much the better for his 2020 campaign rallies. Democrats can still pull defeat from the jaws of victory (darn it all). "

Interesting comment! I think this Congressional battle might also filter right into the 2020 campaign. Had they been able to reach agreement, I think it would have been mostly forgotten by then, but I now think it might be one of 2020's biggest topics, especially depending on the length of time it takes for a national emergency declaration to work its way up to SCOTUS.

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dockside_gw

Posted by margie:

Can I get my passport renewed, please???

Just tell them that you are a Democrat and seeking asylum to your country of designation. They will stamp it;))


It's obvious that you have never renewed a passport. You don't get your old one stamped. You send in your application, with a check and new photos. Then, eventually, you are sent a new passport and your old passport.

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nickel_kg(6)

Ann -- yup, something like that. I'd "like" your comment to indicate agreement but I can't "like" the outcome!

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Ann

Nickel, yes, I totally understand! That's how I felt about yours, but I sure agreed about the part of how this could very easily feed into the 2020 election if a national emergency is declared.

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Ann

I think if Dems fail to recognize how much this has made them appear to support open borders and oppose border security, you have your eyes tightly shut. Prior to Chuck and Nancy planting their heels, I think some felt that jury was still out, but now it's apparent that one (or both) of two things is true. Either Dems truly don't support any increase in border security and/or Dems put preventing the president from anything above all else. Neither will play well in 2020 IMO.

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dandyfopp


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cyn427(zone 7, Northern VA)

"They voted for it not too long ago, now because it's Trump they will not."

So silly. There was a bipartisan bill that passed the Senate unanimously, but Trump vetoes it after saying he would sign it if Congress passed a bill.

The conflating of border security and building a wall is dishonest. The two are not the same. It is possible to have a secure border without a wall.

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Kathy

Who can trust Trump to do what he says? His word is not trustworthy, just like the last time. He thinks that is negotiating. No, it isn’t. It just shows you can’t trust a word he says. And this is what he told his son DonJr. Don’t even trust me.

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Ann

"The conflating of border security and building a wall is dishonest. The two are not the same. It is possible to have a secure border without a wall."

How?

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Kathy

Trump will have siphoned off the money to another consultant group like the company that hired 2 border guards at a cost of how many millions?

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Ziemia(6a)

Arizonians chose the candidate for Senate) who does not agree with Trump on the Wall. (The other Senator, picked by governor, was the loser in that issue/vote.)

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Izzy Mn

Putin is very pleased with the chaos Trumpy is causing with all this distraction. We can no longer properly govern ourselves with all the Trump made emergencies, government shut down and horrid behavior of the adminstration. No one knows what is going on day to day. Our National security is compromised because of Trump because of the shutdown. Putin can do as he pleases with no interference, we are to busy. Any competent people have left the sinking ship.

Why do you think Putin and Saudi Arabias Prince were laughing and high fiving each other at the last get together.

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cait1

OP

I can't find a Democratic loss in this

I can. Dems are coming off as open border proponents and more concerned with foreigners than the American citizens they are entrusted to represent.

The optics are not good for dems on this one regardless to how blind you may be to those facts.

More and more people are waking up to the fact that dems only want these foreigners to bolster their voting base (poor, uneducated people are more likely to want more government intervention in their lives) and create more redistribution of wealth schemes (such as de Blasio's crazy plan) to bring hardship upon hard working Americans that will further erode what's left of the middle class. We all know the 1% elite de Basios/Pelosis/Schumers of the world will never feel the bite of their proposals.


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sherrygirl zone5 N il(5a)

POTUS is distracting us all from his real problems, mueller, Cohen and the State of New York. I’m waiting for those sealed indictments to show up in about two years when his term ends, just sayin’.


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bry911

Dems are coming off as open border proponents and more concerned with foreigners than the American citizens they are entrusted to represent.

Democrats are going to be painted as open border proponents no matter what they do. The idea that Democrats had a shot at being the border control party on January 2nd is laughable. Sometimes you have to dance with the girl that brought you. They risk little with the shutdown and stand to gain lots.

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Kathy

Trump is the one who is more concerned with the Wall than the people he represents. He has jeopardized their jobs and the US on every border because he refuses to reopen the government. He has now risked every citizen of the US for a Wall that will never be built.

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sunflower_petal(5a)

"Democrats are going to be painted as open border proponents no matter what they do. "

You got that right.

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jillinnj

Yes, they will. Because right wingers are willing to outright lie to get their way.

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Stan Areted

"Democrats are going to be painted as open border proponents no matter what they do. "

IF they do something to stop illegal immigration and not castigate people who want our borders protected and our laws enforced, then they'll be painted as something other than the obstructionists to law and order that they are.

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Kathy

Obama made sure all the immigration laws were followed and he did get criticism because of ICE’s tactics. Now we find out ICE was abusing detainees. Under Trump, ICE have planned or already erased those records instead of trying to fix the problem. That is not law and order. That is unlawful and abusive.

Democrats want to address immigration in a comprehensive way. Trump wants to totally shut America’s borders with his travel ban and the borders. Making enemies of our neighbors. He is isolating US in the world and it will shrink our economy.

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sunflower_petal(5a)

Nope, Stan, we've seen how this works. You're never going to give Democrats any credit no matter what they do.

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Ann

Bry, no surprise, but I completely disagree with your position. I think Dems have everything to lose and nothing to win. Border security happens to be important to many Americans. Dems have truly shown how opposed to border security they really are since the beginning of the caravan that made it to Tijuana months ahead of schedule.

So, here we are with Chuck and Nancy saying they won't pay more than $1 for physical barriers. Physical barriers are a very tested method around the world and have shown to be quite effective in many places they are located. Republicans, are proposing all sorts of compromises, all which contain some amount of money to be allocated for new physical barriers. Due to the Chuck and Nancy's line in the sand, those two have put themselves in the position where they can't negotiate on anything that ever contains an inch of additional physical barrier, now or in the future.

Now, unless Dems budge, my guess is Trump will declare a national emergency. He may open the government soon and give Congress 3 or so weeks prior to the declaration (Chris Wallace has heard of this option under discussion at present), but if Dems won't come past their line in the sand, it's his only option to get physical barriers. I imagine that will bring lawsuits immediately and they'll need to work their way up to SCOTUS, which will take time. Then the 2020 election approaches and we go into that with Dems unwilling to negotiate and the border barrier on everyone's mind close to the election. IMO, Dems look both unwilling to negotiate and unwilling to support border security. I'll welcome both of those election talking points! While we may not get the barrier now, we may get it started in a year or so and a greater chance at an election win too. Or, conversely, Dems may decide to negotiate and then our country will get progress on border security beginning now.


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Ziemia(6a)

There are two major parties in the USA. So of course there is a range of opinions on this.

Duh

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Kathy

Border security is a oncern of many Americans, including Democrats. True.

An expensive wall across the state of Tx, which is why Trump shut down the government, is not what most Americans approve of.

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sherrygirl zone5 N il(5a)

Just a reminder, Republicans couldn’t get the wall funded when they had control of all branches of the government. Blaming Democrats? Ah, no.

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bry911

Bry, no surprise, but I completely disagree with your position. I think Dems have everything to lose and nothing to win. Border security happens to be important to many Americans.

No surprise, but you seem to be completely missing my point. Of course border security is important to many Americans and that is why this is a losing issue. I believe Trump will eventually get his funding, but he has to do something with it and he can't. I spent years in capital project development, and I don't think he can even spend $5 billion if everything he wants gets approved faster than any project ever has.

We don't even have an approved design. It will take 6 months just to get the design hammered out, something that there is already money for, condemnation is going to take years, and again, that is funded.

The money he currently needs for the wall is already there. It was there last budget cycle and went unspent. This is a fight that Trump should have, but he is a year ahead of where he needs to be. He is shutting the government down and when this money doesn't get spent it is going to be talked about.

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chase_gw

I agree Bry.

Trump has two years and all the money he needed to put together a comprehensive plan for enhanced border security , designs for various barriers as dictated by terrain, a strategy for aquiring necessary lands, even gong to tender . There are no end of details that have to be worked out before any type of construction can begin but he did nothing.

He had the time and he had the money and he did nothing to take proactive steps to address this so called national emergency.....nothing .

Most Americans sure as heck don' t want the government shut down to get a wall. Americans know all the bills necessary to reopen the government have been passed and are on McConnell's desk.






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chase_gw

Thought this bit from the latest CNN poll was interesting in terms of Trump's favorability . He can kiss 2020 goodbye of me he's loose amongst his core base because he sure isn't growing it.

Same poll says 55% blame Trump for the shutdown

____________________


Overall, the President's approval rating in the poll stands at 37% approve to 57% disapprove. Disapproval has risen five points since December, while his approval number has held roughly the same. Trump's current approval rating matches Ronald Reagan's at this point in his presidency. January of 1983 was the only time during Reagan's tenure when his approval rating fell below 40%, according to Gallup. Trump has hit a low point of 35% in CNN's polling two times -- in December 2017 and February 2018 -- and has been at 40% or above just nine times out of the 20 CNN has polled on it.

The increase in disapproval for the President comes primarily among whites without college degrees, 45% of whom approve and 47% disapprove, marking the first time his approval rating with this group has been underwater in CNN polling since February 2018





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jillinnj

Most Americans agree with chase and bry. And do not agree with Ann.

Americans blame Trump and GOP

Concerning the allocation of blame, 53 percent say Trump and the Republicans are mainly at fault, and 29 percent blame the Democrats in Congress. Thirteen percent say both sides bear equal responsibility for the shutdown. That is identical to the end of the 16-day shutdown in 2013, when 29 percent blamed then-President Barack Obama and 53 percent put the responsibility on congressional Republicans.

A predictable partisan divide shapes the blame game, with 85 percent of Democrats citing Trump and Republicans as the cause and 68 percent of Republicans pointing the finger at congressional Democrats. Independents fix the blame squarely on the president and his party rather than on the Democrats, by 53 percent to 23 percent. Women blame Trump and Republicans by a margin of 35 points, and men blame the president and the GOP by 13 points.

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Stan Areted

It's noteworthy that ever since President Trump was elected about all libs talk about is his "numbers" and how he can't be elected and how he'll be gone in months.


President Trump is two years into his presidency and still has two more years to go. That's all I care about at this moment because I approve of his policies and the fact that he is getting things done.

Talking about his numbers and the media attacks on him may make libs feel good and try to bring down his supporters, but it's just proof of how much he gets under the skins of libs--they are OBSESSED with President Trump.

Lay back and enjoy the ride. Many of us don't care what other think at this juncture.

Obama supporters didn't care what we thought, either. It's the way it works sometimes.

If you can't do that, that's too bad because the knots in which the libs are twisting themselves are a colossal waste of time. It may make libs feel better to predict this or that, but remember--we saw predictions and laughed at the time, and laugh even more now. All these declarations and predictions and threats aboutwhat is going to happen anyday now are just gibberish noise.

I did not like much at all about Obama's policies but I sure didn't let it become an obsession.

Curious, and ironic that the language used against our president and calls to overthrow government by removing him--just last night a call for President Trump to be castrated-- by libs on this website alone, much less everyday in the media, on social media, in print, and at rallies, could very easily fall under the the hate speech laws in Canada.


God Bless a Free United States of America where we have First Amendment rights.

At least as long as Donald Trump president.

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Ann

"He can kiss 2020 goodbye of me he's loose amongst his core base because he sure isn't growing it."

Huh? Does anyone have any clue what this sentence is supposed to say?

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bry911

It's noteworthy that ever since President Trump was elected about all libs talk about is his "numbers" and how he can't be elected and how he'll be gone in months.

This is politics 101, and it shouldn't be surprising.

The Democratic party wants to push a message of mass disappointment. In all honesty, they aren't interested in changing the mind of the Trump supporters, they don't care about those votes. They are interested in all of those people who were frustrated with mainstream candidates who pushed the button for Trump because they thought an outsider could lead effectively.

Throwing out numbers all the time demonstrates that there are many people who are unhappy with their vote. It creates a group identity of disappointed voters which gives people the cover they need to admit a mistake.

This is done by both political parties every cycle.

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Ann

"Throwing out numbers all the time demonstrates that there are many people who are unhappy with their vote. It creates a group identity of disappointed voters which gives people the cover they need to admit a mistake."

Trump support among Republicans and 2016 Trump voters is actually quite high. With Republicans, it's typically 87-90% for Trump. I'd need to go review numbers of G.W., H.W., Reagan, etc., but I'm pretty sure Trump's numbers among Republicans are high.

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Kathy

It is amazing People believe Trump’s lies especially when they change every day or so. It baffles me.

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Ziemia(6a)

Yup to this from bry911:

"In all honesty, they aren't interested in changing the mind of the Trump supporters, they don't care about those votes. They are interested in all of those people who were frustrated with mainstream candidates who pushed the button for Trump because they thought an outsider could lead effectively."

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jillinnj

It's noteworthy that ever since President Trump was elected about all libs talk about is his "numbers" and how he can't be elected and how he'll be gone in months.

Funny. The person most obsessed with poll numbers is one of yours.

But, don't let facts get in the way of a good sounding argument.

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jillinnj

Huh? Does anyone have any clue what this sentence is supposed to say?

Why don't you politely ask the poster?

Oh right... you can't stand the poster so you'll do anything to try and embarrass them. Well, you failed. Again.

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jillinnj

Trump support among Republicans and 2016 Trump voters is actually quite high. With Republicans, it's typically 87-90% for Trump. I'd need to go review numbers of G.W., H.W., Reagan, etc., but I'm pretty sure Trump's numbers among Republicans are high.

Did you even read bry's post? If so, how did you miss this:

they aren't interested in changing the mind of the Trump supporters

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mayflowers

Republican Party identification is pretty low now compared to the past--26%. Dems are 33% and Independent are 37%, according to Pew. 200 million were registered to vote in 2016. So 87% of those 50 Million Republicans support trump. We'll be happy to get as many of those remaining 150 million voters as we can.

I think his approval rating is in the single digits for Dems and below 40% for Independents. More Independents lean Democrat now than Republican (50-42%).

http://www.people-press.org/2018/03/20/party-identification-trends-1992-2017/

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Ann

This is a month old and is regarding a potential primary challenge to Trump, but has a lot of good info about Trump's popularity among Republicans in comparison to previous presidents (from both parties) and their party support.

"Trump's numbers in the early states are a reflection of his national popularity with Republicans. Trump scored an 89% approval rating in the most recent monthly Gallup national aggregate."


https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/18/politics/donald-trump-republican-primary-challenge-analysis/index.html


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Ziemia(6a)

The Dems really aren't focused on the views of Trump's loyal fans. Besides we know polls are not the same as voting.

Yup, it's about the independents.

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Ann

Yes, but Bry's post is discussing Trump voters (not just Republicans) - those that "pushed the button for Trump". I guess I'm wondering if Trump has truly lost support from those voters as might be assumed or implied. He's maintained such high support from Republicans, I think it quite possible he also has maintained high support from the group that "pushed the button for Trump".


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mayflowers

You also need to be thinking about his approval by state. Not good. Look at the swing states.

https://morningconsult.com/tracking-trump/

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Ann

Yes mayflowers, down in nearly every state but virtually stable for months and months in RCP averages. Interesting (and maybe a little baffling) if you ask me.

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Ziemia(6a)

Does the top-most post address Trump voters?

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jillinnj

He's maintained such high support from Republicans

Nobody disputes that. You like to ignore that those identifying as Republicans is now mostly just Trump supporters.

His % approval amongst Republicans is high but that doesn't tell the whole story.

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bry911

Yes, but Bry's post is discussing Trump voters (not just Republicans) - those that "pushed the button for Trump".

I said "those people who were frustrated with mainstream candidates who pushed the button for Trump because they thought an outsider could lead effectively."

This would preclude people that voted for Trump for other reasons.

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Ann

"Throwing out numbers all the time demonstrates that there are many people who are unhappy with their vote. It creates a group identity of disappointed voters which gives people the cover they need to admit a mistake."

My question is, if Republicans still support Trump and at a very high percentage of Republicans, what makes Bry, or anyone, think there is any significant group of "disappointed voters". Isn't it quite possible that group is also still providing high support of him? I looked for a poll of non-Republican voters (and important to my question - who voted for Trump in 2016) and didn't find one. Does anyone else have this specific info that demonstrates that those who voted for Trump once and are not Republicans, are disappointed or are supportive?

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bry911

My question is, if Republicans still support Trump and at a very high percentage of Republicans, what makes Bry, or anyone, think there is any significant group of "disappointed voters".

First, because there always is. There are always a group of people who are unsatisfied with their vote for president.

Next, why does it even matter if there are? My answer was why this happens in every modern presidency. The Republicans did it twice in Obama's presidency and they will do it again during the next Democrat's presidency. It just works.

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Ziemia(6a)

As for voters' opinions since 2016, we have the 2018 election.

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

A high percentage of a small percentage is a small percentage overall.

And the Trump shutdown has already hurt, and will further hurt, our national economy, the longer it goes on.

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Ann

"hurt" our national economy? Really? Based on which economic numbers?

ETA: Oops, my mistake. I read too quickly and thought carol said Trump had hurt the national economy. I now see she said "the Trump shutdown". I do suspect the shutdown will have a temporary effect on economic numbers.

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Kathy

Trump’s popularity was mostly due to the economy rather than personal. Now that he is hurting the economy with tariffs and the shutdown, it will erode his approval ratings even more as the economy weakens.The Fed gov is US largest employer. All those lost paychecks will affect the economy if it continues.

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Ann

"First, because there always is. There are always a group of people who are unsatisfied with their vote for president."

Wow, while this answer would be par for the course for many posters, it surprises the heck out of me coming from Bry. You might as well have simply lessened it to say, "Just because.".

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Ziemia(6a)

"...why does it even matter if there are?"

Or, maybe 'whoosh'.

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momj47(7A)

I do suspect the shutdown will have a temporary effect on economic numbers.

Typical right wing Trump supporter response

But when the Trump shutdown starts to hurt you, will the effect be temporary or permanent, Ann?

This shutdown will have a very permanent effect on farmers, small businesses, government contractors who will lose too much money and will lose their farms, their homes, their businesses, their jobs.

A permanent tragedy, or as elvis says - collateral damage

*

You do know this whole thing is just a made up crisis, don't you?

This $5 billion was NOT in the 2019 budget Mr. Trump submitted to Congress

His original 2019 budget specified: “$1.6 billion for new border wall in locations identified by the Border Patrol as necessary to obtain operational control of the border and impede illegal crossings.” Congress offered $1.3 billion.

Congress in essence already decided not to spend money above and beyond $1.3 billion on the wall, but rather on other worthwhile projects. That’s what the legislative process does — prioritizes. And that power to pick and choose, to elevate one need over another, was expressly given to Congress in the Constitution.

There are some elected Republicans (Trump cares nothing about Democrats, so forget them for the moment) in every state who are going to object to Trump snatching money from them. I suppose as bad as the border may be (and we’ve discussed that crossings have been dramatically reduced over the past 10 to 15 years), it’s not nearly so acute a problem as states' actual disaster recovery and prevention. That is true even in Texas, which has the most to gain from border security.

Furthermore, by indulging Trump, the Senate hurts its own base. “Out of the 10 states with the most affected federal employees per 10,000, six voted for Trump — Alaska, Montana, Wyoming, South Dakota, Idaho and West Virginia,” Axios reports. Trump and the Senate are “hurting some of the people who put him into office.”

If Trump tries it, Senate Republicans' constituents will want to know why they didn’t stick up for them rather than enable the president’s wall fantasy.

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

Heard this earlier today - paraphrased:

Lots of people do not realize just how much our gov't does, until it's not doing it.

https://www.marketplace.org/2019/01/09/business/business-thats-not-happening-thanks-shutdown

Excerpt:

"...Just over a year ago, Congress passed the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act — the biggest change to the federal tax code in 30 years. Now we’re coming up on the first tax season under the new law, and thanks to the shutdown, there’s a skeleton crew at the IRS. That means companies and their accountants don’t know if they will get the information they need to file their taxes by the deadline. They don’t even know if they’ll be able to get somebody on the phone at the IRS who can answer their questions. Right now, no one picks up when you call the agency’s business help line. And remember, even before the shutdown, this tax season was a scary prospect for companies. The law is 1,000 pages long, and it’s still not clear what parts of it mean, especially when it comes to businesses."

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purrmich_7_

Nice how greed dehumanizes people.

"Collateral damage"

"Economic numbers"

The greed for their wall makes individual people suffering of no consequence. Until those greedy people get hit with a financial blow - they don't care. Just as trump doesn't care.

If you cared - you wouldn't be a trumpster.

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sunflower_petal(5a)

If 26% of people identify as Republicans and 90% of Republicans support Trump, how many voters does that give Trump? 23.4% of voters are likely to vote for Trump again (assuming that is what their approval means).

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purrmich_7_

Pending a whole bunch of chaos and negativity - just as his first two years have been. People do get bored and tired of chaos eventually.

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bry911

Wow, while this answer would be par for the course for many posters, it surprises the heck out of me coming from Bry.

You quite often decide whether or not input is valuable based on some arbitrary standard that you set. When input doesn't conform to whatever it is you are trying to get out of it, you blame others. It isn't always my job to educate and/or entertain you, and honestly, the truth need not be agreeable, sometimes it is just the truth.

-----

In many ways you don't seem to understand politics, you are big on the left vs. right thing but really politics is about the center. That's what politics is, the fight for the 51st percentile. When you look at all the views of all the people it gets normal pretty fast. This means that generally the population follows the 68, 95, 99.7 rule. The entire 34% that is on the right side in the first standard deviation are not strongly Republican.

Traditionally, major legislation gets started in the first 200 days, that is how long Presidents realistically have before the people in the first deviation begin moving to the other side, and they always move to the other side. That is why political power swings like a pendulum back and forth between parties. The center is always moving away from the incumbent.

You seem to want me to explain why it happens. The truth is, I can't explain it. I have some ideas, but realistically there are people who spend their entire adult life studying nothing other than the political opinion pendulum. So I am not qualified to explain to you why it happens. However, I also can't explain how gravity works, but I know it works. Just because I don't know why my computer falls to the ground when I throw it out the window, doesn't mean it will float back in the window. I don't know why people are dissatisfied with their vote, but I know that power will swing back the other way, and so does everyone else.

The trick is to speed it up, such that the pendulum swings in four years rather than eight or twelve. Political parties have been doing this a long time now and are pretty good at it. One of the ways this happens is to try to attribute certain characteristics to groups in order to encourage people to join a group. It works, the difference is between "you got duped" and "he duped us all." People will defend a choice they are not happy with, when they believe the alternative will make them look foolish, but if everyone looks foolish they will jump right in. How foolish is largely moot, people simply don't like to be wrong alone.

All of this is just using a lot of words to say the same thing I said before. There are always people who are dissatisfied.

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sunflower_petal(5a)

"In many ways you don't seem to understand politics, you are big on the left vs. right thing but really politics is about the center."

I never really thought of it that way, but it makes sense to hear you say it.

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Kathy

It may have come to a point where the Dems have to take a hard stand with Trump. He is not conducive to compromise. He is dictating a solution and there seems to be no room to compromise on a wall. Now, maybe if he agreed to a solution on DACA the Dems might decide to make a deal. Trump is floating the Dems don’t want to solve DACA so he can suggest it as his solution. It might be a way for him to claim a win. In his head it is about winning and losing—-not compromise to govern.

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bob_cville

I'm convinced that some percentage of the manufactured outrage drummed up by the various talk shows and "media" pundits is entirely and cynically fabricated solely for the purpose of tracking the depth and breadth of that media persons reach, which can then be presented to advertisers to show how many potential customers they would be reaching, or be presented to those trying to push the people towards a way of thinking as a demonstration of how effective the pundit can be in leading their followers to believe almost anything.

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

TBH, I don't think governing factors into Mr. Trump's idea of his presidency very much, if at all...

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catticusmockingbird

I don't think he has any idea what that actually means.

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Linda

Cheetohead is just power-mad and trying to hide his treasonous activities. No matter what compromise deal is reached, he will block it. He is holding the poor federal workers hostage just because he's having a little temper tantrum! How long are the American people going to allow this idiot to rant and rage and threaten? Because with him, the more you cave in or compromise, he worse he'll be the next time. Bad behavior should not be rewarded for a brat like him!

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GOD

Donald is dancing on Putin's string

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Kathy

When will McConnell work for the people and not for Trump? He has surrendered his power to Trump. He needs to go.

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sherrygirl zone5 N il(5a)

It seems as though Fox News is running the government,

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studio10001

Newest stats do not support the crisis theory:


Notice that ALL of 2018 ran in the middle of the lowest figures since...1972?:


Maybe we should pay these guys.

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