I'm not the expert that Al is on this topic but if you can use Dry-It in boiling water and it doesn't break down then I *think* it would work for soil building. Again, Al or other experienced members of this forum might have better advice. Last night I spent time on various bonsai sites, and all of the sites had extensive threads on soil building. Although I didn't have time to read each and every post on how to build soil, here are a gew general things that I took away from the threads: 1. Turface: A tremendous product for use in most bonsai and container applications. PRO: It's extremely stable and will not break down. Great as a soil component. CON: It can be difficult to find in some areas. 2. Moisture absorbers: Various products like OilDry, Dryz_it, etc. can be used in soils in place of Turface if tested beforehand. I believe these products are similar to Turface, however most are not kiln fired to such a high temperature as Turface, therefore they could break down faster. I would carefully test these products by soaking in water for extended periods and see what happens. PRO: Easy to find at auto supply stores, hardware stores, Home Depot, etc. and inexpensive. CON: Some break down faster than others, so test before use. 3. Cat litter: Quite a few members used cat litter in place of Turface or OilDry and had mixed results. Some users said it worked well, while others said the cat litter broke down and turned to mud in a hurry. (As posted earlier in this thread, I found the same thing.) Overall I personally would avoid using cat litter as there are so many brands and contents available that it would be a major effort to find one that worked as well as Turface. PRO: Inexpensive and available everywhere. CON: Many brands break down into mud in a hurry. So those are my two cents worth! Again, Al or other members of the list may have other opinions but if you can find it I'd stick with Turface. If you can't find Turface and feel like experimenting with some expendable plants then maybe try the OilDry to see what happens. Thanks. Dave

I lost a rose to "crown" gall in 2010. Our soil is anything but acid. I had just done a soil test and it had a ph of 7.3. Now granted the galls were not on the roots or the crown, but rather on the cut ends of the canes higher up on the bush, still I don't think acidity had anything to do with it. I did alot of reading on it at the time and it was depressing to hear that there really was little to be done. One person said to wait 3 years and hope that the bacterium would allow another rose to be planted there without reinfection. I'm with Michael. I certainly wouldn't be digging around if there are other roots that could be subject to the activated Bacteria. On a positive note (if there is one) members of the grass family or any other monocot (such as daylilies, Iris etc.) don't seem to be susceptible to the bacterium. Picture is of beginnings of a gall on the cut end of an infected rose cane:

pH is a function of the mineral content of the soil - the base rock it is formed from - and to a lesser degree, the amount of rainfall. Areas with normal to high rainfall tend to have soils on the acidic range; those more arid areas tend to be alkalline. Plants and/or plant parts have little to no bearing on soil pH. It is a garden myth that the soil under conifers is acidic (it may be, but not because of the conifers!) or that pine straw or conifer needles or even used coffee grounds will make soil acidic. There may be a very slight elevation of acidity at the soil surface due to leaching but it is minimal and of no significance. To alter soil pH you need to alter soil chemistry and plants can't do that :-)

you are making an assumption based on an old wives tale ... acidity.. pH is a exponential function ... to SIGNIFICANTLY change ph ... you would probably need a mile deep pile of needles.. for a million years.. to affect that significant change.. think primordial rain forests with dinosaurs roaming thru such ... to avoid failure.. due to said presumption ... get a professional soil text done.. and deal with what is really there ... contact your county extension/soil conservation or Ag office.. and they will tell you how that can be done... should be around 10 bucks or so ... [i am sure the price went up since i had it done] i had 10 40 foot pines removed.. and just planted whatever i wanted under them.. my presumption being.. ph would not be a SIGNIFICANT issue .. as on the rest of the 5 acres.. it is not an issue ... BUT.. you will have other problems gardening there ... like.. highly compacted soil .. MAYBE a bit deficient in nutrients ...and all those darn roots to work around ... and in fact.. my sand.. was hard to water.. the first season.. as it had been a desert under those mature pines for the last decade or two ... anyway ... get a soil test done.. no guessing... then choose your plants ... and BTW .. i would just buy one of everything that struck my fancy .. within budget .. and just plant them ... none of this retentive making of lists .. what ends up working.. works.. never forget.. you wont be a real green thumb gardener.. until you kill.. EVERY PLANT >> THREE TIMES ... list or no list ... good luck ken