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bastet984

Are my expectations for professionally painted cabinets too high?

bastet984
5 years ago
last modified: 5 years ago

Hi, I know this is a long shot to get any answers tonight, but the contractor is coming tomorrow morning and I am so frustrated. We are big DIYers but we wanted our kitchen cabinets painted and we knew it was important enough to hire a professional to make sure the final result looked great. We also have 60 doors/drawers so we knew it would be a big undertaking. But so far, it has not gone well at all.

I interviewed 6 different painters and picked the one I did because he said he could also handle some light carpentry work we needed, and he said they could paint the doors in our garage. Several other painters said they'd have to set up shop in our adjoining dining room, which cuts off a lot of our house. It is December in MN so I specifically asked him if that would be too cold and he said it wouldn't be a problem, they'd bring heaters. He also estimated 3-4 days to do everything. He recommended water based enamel since we are going with white, and I confirmed that is what I want. We also needed a quartz countertop cut down from 24" to 18" and some crown molding added to our soffits, and a coat of varnish on the stained island.

For some background... On Day 1, the two painters showed up 1.5 hours late, only after I emailed the owner to ask why they weren't here yet. He gave me an obvious lie about them being in the area but they didn't have the right address (Were they just driving around? Why didn't they call?) Then they told me they thought we wanted oil based paint so I had to clarify that. I pointed out a spare cabinet in the garage they needed to also paint, and they said they can't paint in the garage because it's too cold. I pointed out that I had asked about that, they didn't seem to know what I was talking about, and in the end they had to set up my dining area as a spray space which really irked me. They didn't get to the point where they could spray the first coat of primer until 7:00 at night, and then they finished around 7:45. My 1 year old son was going to bed and the house reeked of heavy fumes and we all felt ill -- it sucked. They also neglected to bring in the extra cabinet that I had reminded them needed to be painted, and they didn't tape off a portion of wall that I had already painted my wall color, so now it's got white paint on it and I'll have to repaint. I also asked that they cut t 6" off the countertop on the right side (which will be hidden up against the stove) but they instead cut the left side which will be visible, so I'm not happy about that.

So the heart of my question: Now on Day 4 and I asked the owner if they'd be done by tomorrow morning because the appliances are getting delivered. He said yes they'll finish the second coat today and hang all the doors tomorrow and be done. They haven't even done the varnish on the island and I am asking him not to. I went in to look at how things are finishing up and my husband and I feel like this is the least professional looking paint job we've ever seen. There are drips in the paint on the sides of doors and drawers, blue paint from the old walls are showing through in spots, the wood is bleeding through in many spots on the cabinets and doors, there are some hairs painted in to the surface in a couple spots. We always understood that you'll still see the grain when painting oak cabinets, but it's extremely visible in some spots, with the paint not really filling in well. If we did it ourselves I'd expect details like this to get missed or be imperfect, but we hired professionals to avoid this. There is also a white spray on our brand new stained floors that we couldn't get off. I texted the owner some pictures and told him I want him to come by tomorrow to talk about this, and he said they still have some detail work to do, as if he were dismissing my concerns. I don't know how detail work is going to fix all of this, and I also feel like he's making it up because he told me they were done painting and would be hanging everything.

I've attached some photos. Does anyone have experience doing work like this or having it done to help me gain perspective? Aside from the other obvious things they've done wrong, do I have the wrong expectations for how painted oak cabinets should turn out? Would you decline to pay for this work? I've never been in this position before. I know he is not going to agree with me on the quality and I think he is already annoyed with me. He never even apologized to me when I complained to him that he promised me the doors would be sprayed in the garage.


Any feedback or thoughts is appreciated...













Comments (110)

  • cat_ky
    5 years ago

    The first 2 pictures look somewhat decent. The rest of them, there are a lot of repairs to be made. Make sure he leaves you a ton of paint, and as the doors start peeling, one by one, remove the door, and sand it down really well, and prime and paint it yourself. If it is the proper paint, it should flow out well, and not leave a bunch of brush strokes, however, if you do a good job painting them, the brush strokes will blend into the oak grain anyway. The doors with the hinges painted, is ridiculous. Have them removed, and those hinges cleaned perfectly, and then reinstalled. Do not put paint on the cabinets to test them, because, regardless of the paint job, that paint isnt cured, and yes, you will pull off paint, yet and probably for at least another month or more until fully cured. Give him a deadline to have what looks the worst fixed, and tell him that deadline is before Christmas. Once he is finally done and out of there, then be careful around those cabinets for at least a month, and hopefully by then the paint will be fully cured.

  • paintguy22
    5 years ago
    You really need to install bumpers where doors contact boxes. That is standard no matter how great the paint job is. Painted surfaces should never touch other painted surfaces.
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  • Hillside House
    5 years ago

    Still interested!

  • nosoccermom
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Does your state and county have a consumer complaint agency? In my state, the state attorney deals with things like that, too.

    Is the guy licensed? If yes, contact the licensing agency; they may mediate.

    Is he bonded? Probably not, but if he is, the agent will pay for his mess-ups.

  • PRO
    Beth H. :
    5 years ago

    bastet,,,,in the contract, is his work guaranteed? Most painter will give a certain amount of time to cover chipping and peeling. At the very least, he should have a year coverage where he comes back and fixes anything on his dime.

    If he has no warranty, you're screwed. the parts that are peeling is because that surface was not prepped properly. it wasn't cleaned well enough and wasn't primed well either.

    all you can do is document, take videos, get a video of you asking him about warranty, get a written documentation from another cabinet painter, etc. just get everything in order because you're going to need it.

    there is no reason you should have to pay for a poor job, even if he does try and fix his mistakes. just because he 'touches' up a part that his chipped, does that mean it won't chip again in the future? I'm sure it will.

  • artistsharonva
    5 years ago

    bastet, I wanted to give you a compliment for calling local Pros & a lawyer. Information is power. Since the lawyer suggested getting another Pro opinion in writing, this is what I would do. Pay a neutral party Professional cabinet refinisher to come over & inspect the cabinets & give you an estimate on how to fix the cabinets correctly. Get the estimate in writing and ask for details & a contract to review. This info will be valuable to you, because it will give you an idea of what should of been done, if there's something obvious that was dine wrong, how much it's going to cost to fix, and possibly a better Pro that you can hire to fix.

    Now, depending on what they give you will help you determine the next step of action. If it clearly states the paint job has to be totally redone due to ___ (something bad painter did) then balls in your court. You can then send this estimate to the other painter & state due to _______, we will have to pay _$_____ to fix it. Therefore the total job -$ ___ cost to fix it =$____. So, here's is a check for that amount. By cashing this check you agree that all funds owe is now paid in full & all accounts or charges is now $0 paid in full.

    I did something similar above to a mechanic shop who claimed they changed my brake master cylinder. I drove off & my brakes went out that day. I stopped by another mechanic shop to ask how old my master cylinder was & how much to fix it. I was shown how old it was & therefore it wasn't fixed. I sent the liar a $25 check & new estimate. I wrote on check paid in full in memo. I heard he was pissed, but he cashed the check & that was that.

    If he cashes check, great move on. If not, then put the full bill in escrow & try small claims court. By putting funds in escrow, it's consider paid on time but will be dispursed to the party that wins in court.

    Stick up for what's right & do the right thing. ;) I'm cheering for you.

  • weedmeister
    5 years ago

    When you take pictures for documentation, make sure you have plenty of light. Also, have someone stand near the spot being photographed and hold a ruler in place. That lets the judge know how large a spot you're talking about.

  • PRO
    User
    5 years ago

    I just have to ask this question for the amount you paid to paint the cabinets. Is the painter legal?

  • artistsharonva
    5 years ago

    Good point. Ms Colors.

    Check with the state licensing board to see if he's really licensed to do the work. If he's not,

    "If an unlicensed contractor does a remodel or other improvement for a consumer where the costs of the services and materials exceed the threshold amount, the homeowner under varying state statutes is not obligated to pay the unlicensed contractor for services and materials rendered. The reason is that many states like California have statutes stating that individuals performing improvements where a contractor’s license is required cannot file a lawsuit for payment. State legislatures enacted the statutes to protect the public."


    https://real-estate-law.freeadvice.com/real-estate-law/construction/unlicensed-contractors.htm


  • thinkdesignlive
    5 years ago
    For those reading this thread - when you are interviewing painters to paint wood cabinets not only do you read reviews you go see their work. And you get at least 3 bids and be wary of the low bid especially if it’s really low compared to the others. You also educate yourself on the proper process so you know what you are buying. You also need to be on the job site at least at the end of every day to see that the process is being adhered to. I’ll be curious to hear what the other independent painters opinion is and how this resolves. These situations are life lessons and so others reading this are potentially avoiding what you are going through OP so thank you for posting.
  • artistsharonva
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    I have heard some guys claimed they are licensed when in fact they were not when I called the state board. Once I had a guy give me his business card and claimed to be a contractor. His business card said ____Contracting LLC. He had a business license, but not a contractor license. He used the word Contracting in his business name to mislead people. Sneaky. I did get a copy of his id. I felt something was off, so I googled his name on id. To my shock he was a registered sex offender! So, I advice to always check with licensing board & get a driver's license before ever hiring a Pro for safety & peace of mind.

  • dan1888
    5 years ago

    Place the words "Full and Final Payment" on the back top of your check. Cashing it is agreement with the new amount with nothing else owing.

  • PRO
    User
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    The problems with these painters should have been long before you reached the final finish. As an artisan painter we would not classify your painters as professional. They are untrained and are not professional painters. If you read these threads enough there seems to be a real problem with the end users trying to obtain artisan quality results by using untrained and unskilled individuals.

  • artistsharonva
    5 years ago

    Some states now require painters to be licensed.

    Here's a link to check your state

    Painter License Requirements by State: A Comprehensive Guide

    https://www.next-insurance.com/blog/painter-license-requirements-state-comprehensive-guide/

  • bastet984
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    I thought I was going to have a final update at this point, but oh the saga continues...


    The two painters came today as planned to touch up the spots we informed the owner about. Beforehand, I marked every spot off with a piece of blue painters tape, took photos, and inventoried what sorts of problems there were. There were 53 total spots, which came from 12 spots where the wood was bleeding through, 13 spots where the paint was chipping or peeling, 25 spots where there was debris or hair or general clumps/drips in the paint, 1 spot where they had painted a piece of tape into the middle of a door, 1 spot where they hadn't caulked a joint between boxes, and a full cabinet-length hinge which they had painted along with the door. I set up a Google photo album of all the time-stamped photos we had taken to date, including ones from what was needed done today. Last night, I sent the owner a thorough email stating what our grievances are and giving him access to the photo album. I told him we have sought the advice of other professional painters who agree there is likely a primer/prep problem, and told him we are still willing to pay if repairs are made, but it will be a reduced amount due to our major quality concerns and issues with the process. And we did intend to pay something -- we honestly just want this settled and our of our lives at this point.


    Well, the painters came and I am now more angry than ever. To make a long and almost comical story short, they finished "fixing" all 53 items in about 45 minutes and came to tell me they were done. I went through it and pointed out all the things they had missed or that still looked terrible. They hadn't even bothered to paint under the hinge before reinstalling it, and the spot with the tape that was painted in just had maybe a coat of primer and a single coat of paint slapped on it.

    So they went through a second time, after I went around and re-taped the problem areas. After the second review, there were still many problems, including one bleed-through spot. I pointed that out and they told me "That's normal." I said, "It's normal for the wood to bleed through after a coat of primer and two coats of paint?" and they said, "Yes." So I said "No, that is not normal at all" and made them fix it.


    After the third go-round, we decided we were done asking them to continually fix things while we acted as job supervisor. And I learned one other relevant point, which is that the owner lied to me about them being employees. I had asked the owner last week if they are employees or subs, and he told me they are employees. Tonight I asked them the same question and they said they are subs. I'm not sure how that impacts the equation, but my contract is with the main contractor and not them.


    The quality is obviously not there, and we are very upset. Now I am at a point where I have to decide what to do. Offer them a nominal amount in an effort to make it all go away, or fight it and possibly end up in small claims court?

  • hollybar
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Who is the toughest negotiator you know? Have them deal with the owner re: payment. How much was the job? How much is outstanding? How much do you think it is worth? How much extra to avoid court? Best of luck.

  • PRO
    User
    5 years ago

    You could not owe them enough to fix the problems seen and unseen.

  • paintguy22
    5 years ago

    Yes, offer him the nominal amount. I am sure the boss is ready to be done with this nightmare as well and perhaps he will learn a lesson too about what happens when you use subcontractors.

  • User
    5 years ago

    Agree with paintguy 22. I’m surprised the owner has not been checking up himself. Dan1888 has good advice if you do write a check.

  • ulisdone
    5 years ago

    From my understanding, writing contract terms on a check does not void a prior contract.

  • artistsharonva
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    This contractor or company was hired for a service for a final outcome. The contractor made a mistake taking work he is not quailified to do judging on the work performed. If he hires subs that do subpar work the contractor is responsible to fix it. He is also responsible to pay to fix it. He is to negotiate between his subs which company is going to pay for the fix & he is responsible to the the client for his subs if they damage your home. Licensed contractors have to have business insurance to cover these possible mishaps to people's homes.

    What could of happened is he is a contractor who took your money, kept some for himself, then hired a cheaper sub, who then ruined your cabinets. Now, if the subs ruined it, (imo they did) he is now on the hook to fix it or pay another company to fix it, or give your money back, or even possible make an insurance claim for the costs to fix all these cabinets professionally.


  • artistsharonva
    5 years ago

    General guidelines

    How to Sue for Faulty Workmanship

    https://m.wikihow.com/Sue-for-Faulty-Workmanship

  • salonva
    5 years ago

    Artistsharonva- your information is so helpful. in particular, the listing by state o the various requirements I found extremely valuable. Thank you.

    and Bastel I am so sorry to see what you are going through. I cannot imagine the tension of reviewing their "corrections" multiple times.


  • sondramartina
    5 years ago
    These are mine, recently professionally painted . This is how yours should look like too. I’m so sorry that you need to go through such nightmares.
  • bastet984
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    I provided a detailed explanation of what happened last night to the owner, including the painters telling us that bleed through is normal and primer only needs 10 minutes to adhere, and me having to go through it with them 3 times before we decided to call it a night. I called him out on being dishonest about them being subs. I laid out our concerns again, pointed out that his contract states "100% satisfaction guaranteed" and that his website states "no final payment until 100% satisfied" and that the only way we could be even close to satisfied is to settle this without payment.


    His response was that I have been too needy as a client, implying that I must have been too rough on the cabinets for there to be problems, and that I will need to pay the full amount due or it will be turned over to their company attorney and I will be served.


    The fact that he did not address a single one of the things I described about the repairs last night tells me he not only thinks it's normal, he thinks it's defensible. This is probably not the first time he's heard these types of complaints. I guess I'm going to court on this one, and it really bites.

  • bastet984
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    If we fight this an lose, is there a chance we could owe more than the amount due? Like to pay their attorney fees or courtroom fees or things like that? It seems like small claims court isn't a big deal or expensive, but if they actually do have a company attorney then I don't want to get dragged in to something more. Or it might just be an intimidation tactic?

  • kchreg
    5 years ago

    My bet: Intimidation tactic. What's he going to "serve" you with? A complaint for non-payment for services that his own contract and advertising explicitly define as not even due yet? Pfft.


    If there is, in fact, a real company attorney, he or she can explain to this owner what his unsolicited and un-coerced "100% satisfaction guaranteed" statement means. That attorney can also help him recognize your reasonable $1K offer as the outright gift that it is. The lawyer would further explain that the homeowner's offer suggests an innate sense of fair play that may signal a willingness to agree not to write any negative reviews in exchange for a hefty discount.


    Unless there are small print caveats or disclaimers in the contract or on the website that have been omitted from your recaps, I think you're in the driver's seat here. (I assume you thoroughly checked the small print for words like "void if emotionally needy." )


    That said, knowing he deceptively used subcontractors puts you on alert to the possibility of exposure to liability for their wages. Even if you were to pay the full amount, there's no guarantee this guy will pay the subcontractors. So, if this owner does come to his senses and is willing to negotiate, make sure that lien waivers from both the owner and each worker, separately, are part of the deal.


    Good luck! And keep us posted.

  • AJCN
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Sue them first, for breech of contract. The amount that you sue for should be anything you have already paid him + the cost of materials if you bought those yourself + the gas line thing, and maybe + the cost of new doors if these are ruined. We filed pro se in county court because the amount was higher than the limit for the lower justice of the peace court. In our case a contractor quit our bathroom remodel when I inquired as to why they did not install a pre-slope for the shower floor. We got back what we had paid them up to the point of them quitting + cost of the materials they ruined that we had to re-purchase + cost of re-demoing.

    In our county, the smaller "justice court" commonly called the "peace court" or the "justie of the peace" is a non-binding court meaning that even if we had won there, there really aren't any teeth to the ruling. The judge here isn't even a lawyer. So we went to county court. In your case, you might be under the $$ limit for the local justice court. That'll be easier frankly. . We learned as we went along. You can read the civil code and learn what the process will be like. The court website here had samples of documents that made it easier for us. In our state, mediation is required and is ordered automatically after the suit is filed and the other party is notified and they "answer" the suit with their own answer of denial or a counter-suit. In our case, the quitting contractor resisted mediation, cancelled appointment after appointment and then when finally ordered to show up, didn't and the ruling went in our favor automatically. In your case, with all those good pictures, you could bring all that to the mediation to "tell your story". You could even bring a few doors to the mediation. The mediators are very professional and will try to get you guys to reach an agreement. If no agreement is reached then you set a court date. Judges like pictures and a consise not-too-long story of what happened. Each important point in the story needs to have a piece of evidence behind it, such as pictures, emails, the contract etc. You can practice in front of a mirror or with another person to get your story told in 10 minutes or so, judges don't like long winded explanations.

    I am not a lawyer and we didn't hire one. But my DS and BIL are lawyers. Before filing each piece of paper with the court, as the process went along, my BIL would look over the document and correct any mistakes/details. He also made sure each filing was typed up correctly. If you have someone in your life who can do that for you, that would probably ease your mind.

    I'm sorry this is happening to you. I'll add that telling you to calm down and that you are too needy is totally unprofessional and frankly it's sexist (presuming you are a woman because I don't think the owner would have said those 2 things to a man). My contractor said I was too hard to please (uhmmm, showers need pre-slopes). I didn't say this but I wish I had: there is only one person in my house who's job it is to please me, and it ain't you.

  • bastet984
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    Ssdarb, THANK YOU -- I needed that chuckle at the end after the way today has gone. And that's great advice, kchreg.


    I called the lawyer again and I think I pushed him to the end of his patience with free advice, but he basically told me that I am probably not on the hook for anything more than the balance due if my contract doesn't say anything about "attorney clause" (it doesn't.) But he did say that if the cabinets look good now after all the touch-ups and work they went through, and if they have photos showing good resulting work (the owner told me they do but he's shown to be a liar), it might be hard to win in small claims court. Even against my photos showing all the problems along the way. That's a real bummer to hear. I might get a reduced settlement though.


    I spoke with the BBB and the state license department and didn't get much better news there. He's not licensed but he's not required to be in MN, and the BBB can really only offer non-binding mediation services. I'm not that worried about binding, since I'm the one who owes.


    The problem is, the cabinets do look fairly good now (thanks to the job-site supervisor - ME!) I technically can't really know if they'll have additional problems with chipping or peeling or bleeding until they do, which could be a while and we do have to give it time to cure.


    I tried contacting one of the painters who had seen pictures and told me it looks like an adhesion problem, but as soon as I told him I might be going to court, he said he didn't want to be a part of any legal process or provide insight for that. I could try other painters and show them the photos, but I can imagine I'd have to call several before finding someone willing to get involved. I don't know how I would prove to the court that "Yes it LOOKS nice, but it will probably have problems later" without a professional backing it up.


    I think at this point we are going to try to negotiate with him, but if he won't go down on price and we have to go to court, I'll look at it as an educational life experience... at least the worst case scenario is I owe him what he's already demanding.

  • hollybar
    5 years ago

    Umm, when you are negotiating you just might mention your love for social media.

  • bastet984
    Original Author
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    As a side note, I did look up his public record and it looks like he and his entity lost a small claims battle 10 years ago (only about $600 paid.) So he's familiar with the process, which either means he wants to avoid it or now knows how to do it right. It also shows he was willing to do battle over $600 so he probably would over $3,800.

  • Chessie
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    "Hillside House

    That’s horrible. Another one wondering what the cost was for this.

    When I was looking for someone to paint the cabinet doors in our new kitchen, EVERY SINGLE person I talked to said, “You won’t get good results painting existing doors, because of the years of grease/cleaning product/oils from your hand buildup that is virtually impossible to remove.”"



    Well, that is certainly NOT true. If you clean and sand properly, you can get every single bit of grime off and wind up with an excellent paint job. I know. I did my own.



    OP, you hired a hack. Very sorry you wound up with such a poor job. I'd be pissed as hell.

  • PRO
    Beth H. :
    5 years ago

    His response was that I have been too needy as a client, implying that I must have been too rough on the cabinets for there to be problems,

    I swear to christ, if that yahoo made that comment to me I would have throat punched him. This is your typical lousy contractor trying to bully you, threaten, and blame you for their poor work. And ssdarb is right,,,if your husband, boyfriend or some other male person were complaining, the guy wouldn't have said boo to them. After that comment where he blames you for being too rough on the cabs, I would have gotten in his face and asked if he's on medication. NO? you should be for even saying something like that. If you couldn't handle the painting job, you shouldn't have taken it. Then walk away while muttering your (insert family member) is a lawyer and is advising you on small claims court.

    the good thing about the court is that you will have to wait. by that time, the cabs should be peeling and chipping. you'll have more pictures.

    I'd keep hunting for a true professional painter and see if they'll take your side and write a notarized statement for you.

  • PRO
    Beth H. :
    5 years ago

    also, what about the subs he hired? do you have any background on them? for instance, did he pick them up in a parking lot somewhere or do they actually have a painting business? and is it cabinet painting? house painting isn't the same. would look better if he hired 2 joe blows. that shows a lot more neglect on his part.

  • einportlandor
    5 years ago

    You're getting plenty of advice here so I'll just add two quick thoughts:


    1. Stop negotiating verbally and start using email for all communication. You need a paper trail.


    2. Drop these magic words into your communication -- "Angies List" and "Yelp". The only time I had a dispute with a contractor I casually mentioned my fondness for writing online reviews and the whole, entire mess was resolved within 24 hours.

  • artistsharonva
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    bastet, this is what I would do next. Get a neutral Pro Cabinet Refinishing company to come to your house & give you their opinion to fix these cabinets. Just get an estimate. Don't mention taking anything about court. That will scare any new company away. They don't need to get involved. You just need a neutral party to advise if the cabinets are ok as is or an estimate showing what needs to be done correctly. No need to lie to anyone, but no need to bring up court. The truth is you need to know if they should be fixed & how much from a new company. That info will give you the information you need to know what to do next. They might say, fine as is or nope this needs x, y, z to correct at this amount, because_____.Get the estimate in writing and hold on to it. Besides, you may hire them in the future, so it's not a waste of their time.

  • artistsharonva
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    If writing a negative review. Be professional and factual. Be aware the bad reviews may come up in court. It's ok to do a bad review if it's factual.

    I once got the run around when a company sold me a defective wash machine and would not return it 3 days after purchase. They kept sending mechanics who could not fix it for a week & refuse to take it back. I went on their Facebook where you can review a company with start & comments . i wrote the facts in chronological order & how I was disappointed & I will post an update if it gets resolved & gave a 1 star. Miraculously, I got a phone call from high up district manager & said they would talk with the store manager. The next day the store manager had there truck pick it up at their expense & I got a full refund & an apology. I then updated to the facebook, lie I said I do, that it was resolved to my satisfaction & gave them 3 stars.


    The best place to write a review is Google & Facebook. The reason I say this is because Google is the biggest used search engine. Businesses pay big bucks to be in the top search. Bad reviews lowers them down the search list. Facebook is similar & worked for me. That's all I did.

  • just_janni
    5 years ago

    Not a lawyer - watch a lot of Judge Judy. ;-)

    I suspect you will have to pay for this. You could drag out the 100% satisfaction guaranteed until the crows some home - but you'd have to continually have to give him chances to fix it.

    You did get a paint job. It is not a good one. You won't get to pay nothing - and yes - the fact that it looks decent from XX feet won't help.

    You will be fully in your rights to post your experience and reviews online as long as it is your opinion and you are a paying customer.

    Again - Judge Judy said "you ate the steak" - you have to pay. Your recourse is to not use him again, and provide feedback for others. What you can't do is expect him to pay for your cabinets to be "fixed".

    The best thing you will be able to do is negotiate a reduced fee. And I agree with the "get the most hard nosed negotiator you know" to help you.

    (Lastly - this guy is a sexist jerk - I'd be happy to steal his lunch money, give him a wedgie and send him crying home to momma if I were closer to you)

  • PRO
    Beth H. :
    5 years ago

    If you do settle, at least get something in writing that will address the chipping/peeling issues. For instance, if they start to chip in 3 months, will they fix it? what if it's 6 months? Most places will guarantee their work for at least a year.

    Make sure this is written down or emailed somewhere.

  • paintguy22
    5 years ago

    Painting over stained cabinets isn't something I would offer a warranty on ever. I can't imagine some hackers are going to warranty it.

  • bastet984
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    Resolution.... (hopefully)


    I replied to his threat to "serve" us with a layout of the objectively wrong things that happened, along with our documentation to support it. I also said I can't believe a professional would be proud of this work, but if you are, then I am happy to help share that this is what your customers should expect. I also pointed out that he has yet to address, apologize for, or even acknowledge any of the things that are wrong even though he has ample opportunity. I said that I do not think the work they have done is worth the full asking price and if he thinks it is, then he should take the steps he thinks is necessary.


    He replied that court would not be a win for either of us and that I should reply with a price I think is fair. I replied with two different calculations bringing me to the conclusion to offer $1,600. He replied that he would not accept less than $2,000 and that he'd proceed with court if I don't agree, and then threw in a couple more ridiculous claims. I think it's more than he deserves but I have several other very stressful things happening in my life right now and we decided we are willing to pay $2,000 to get this out of our lives. I told him to send me a new invoice stating this is the final amount due and language saying it would be considered paid in full to him and his subs.


    THEN... he sent the new invoice that included the language I requested AND a statement that neither I nor my husband is allowed to post any negative online reviews and said he wanted this signed with the check. My blood pressure shot through the roof, and I immediately replied that I would not sign any such language and would take this to court with the full amount at risk if he would not remove it from the invoice.


    He eventually sent me a new invoice without the online review waiver and I intend to sign it, pay him, and get this shyster out of my life. I think I know now why there are no negative reviews of his business online. I think his whole business is probably a scam, and while I do intend to leave online reviews to protect others, I am frankly concerned about him being retaliatory. We are installing a security system at our house tonight.


    Lessons learned: research the crap out of any contractor you hire, if they are telling you they can do things that others can't, don't believe them, and document everything you possibly can during the process. It's a lesson that cost me $2,000, plus another $10,000 for the new cabinets I'll have to buy, plus some $$$ for the vacation I now need to take just to bring my stress levels back to a normal range. Thanks everyone for being my therapy and providing such good advice and insight. I hope I don't have to post on this anymore and this is d.o.n.e.

  • salonva
    5 years ago

    I think you handled yourself perfectly and in particular--- I thought that this was stellar.

    I also said I can't believe a professional would be proud of this work, but if you are, then I am happy to help share that this is what your customers should expect.


    I think you are wise to be rid of dealing with him, and I don't think you have much to worry about with him but then again probably wise to have the security system. He really is a piece of work saying that court is a no win for anyone and then saying he will take you to court for the payment.

  • cat_ky
    5 years ago

    I hope you are right, and this is finally done, so you can at least enjoy the holidays. He sounds like a real jerk, and you did a great job standing up to him. A security system is a great thing to have these days, anyway, but, I dont think you really have to worry about him.

  • 1929Spanish-GW
    5 years ago

    I’ve been following this story. Glad it’s done. I’m wondering if a really bad paint job would be easier to remove and repaint rather than spending on new doors. Let it sit a while and decide. The kitchen stil works.

  • Diane
    5 years ago
    Good for you to get this poor contractor out of your life, sorry it had to be at a cost to your pocket and nerves. Please be sure to get signed and notarized lien wavers signed by him and all subs prior to paying. Be sure they cover labor and materials for all parties.
  • PRO
    User
    5 years ago

    I have been following this and cannot believe nobody saw this mess before it was almost finished.

  • artistsharonva
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Good job standing your ground. Good riddins. I do believe what goes around comes around. I think you handle things professionally & good, therefore good things will come your way.The good news is you learned a valuable lesson & this will be valuable information in the future endeavors. I wish you a great holiday & an even better New Year! :)

  • PRO
    User
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    What goes around comes around? Does this apply to the person who hired the contractor or contractors only?

  • Home4Here
    4 months ago

    This popped up in when I was looking around and I had to read the entire sordid story. Five years later, I hope you're doing well and your cupboards are re done to your liking. ♡ I'm so sorry you went through all of that, but you're definitely not alone. I was also recently a victim of a scam which involved an appliance and a pile of money I never got back. It just sucks! There are so many charlatans out there waiting like vultures to prey on good, honest people like yourselves. Take care.

  • Home4Here
    4 months ago

    This popped up in when I was looking around and I had to read the entire sordid story. Five years later, I hope you're doing well and your cupboards are re done to your liking. ♡ I'm so sorry you went through all of that, but you're definitely not alone. I was also recently a victim of a scam which involved an appliance and a pile of money I never got back. It just sucks! There are so many charlatans out there waiting like vultures to prey on good, honest people like yourselves. Take care.

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