If Trump is Christian, I am Santa Claus

d_gw

Not that we needed further evidence but Donald and Melanie couldn't even be bothered to read the Apostles' Creed from the funeral program.






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Becca Reese

I wouldn't read it, either. It is not my creed. I would stand respectfully and go through the appropriate motions, but not say it.

You obviously have no clue about how creeds differ in various faiths.

They are not interchangeable.

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dandyfopp

He couldn't behave normally if his life depended on it.


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Lynn

He's a republican christian. gasses children, imprisons them, brags about grabbing P, sides with those who chop people into pieces while they're still alive, lies multiple times a day.

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d_gw

Trump has said that he is Christian. If he is a Christian, he shouldn't have any religious issues with reciting the Episcopalian version of the Apostels' Creed. Or with reciting the version that he is most comfortable with.

But, he's a fake Christian who doesn't know any version so the point is moot.

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chase_gw

Arms crossed and scowling.........

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sunflower_petal(5a)

" and doing nothing for the sick and dying children all over the world. "

How do you know? Monetary donations help a lot and you have no idea who has donated or not.

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CindyMac(8b)

You obviously have no clue about how creeds differ in various faiths.

Trump is "supposedly" Presbyterian. Doesn't appear to be much difference between the Episcopalian and Presbyterian Apostles' Creed. We all know Trump is the furthest thing from a Christian.

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Becca Reese

So, it's so bad for the haters that they have to resort to criticizing the Trumps for not saying a creed which is not their own religion's creed.

Sad. Especially given how it disrespects 41.

The irony is that the haters don't even get how pathetic it is to view this beautiful, moving funeral service and mine it for Trump hate fodder.

It doesn't get much lower.

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MissMyGardens

Regardless how anyone may feel about the bodily position or gestures, speaking or not speaking a creed which may or may not be of whatever faith Trump has it was the express wish of Pres. H.W. Bush that whoever occupied the office of the president at his death was to be invited to his National Cathedral funeral service.

These highly planned Presidential rituals are designed with the explicit intentions of the high official who has recently died. Nothing was done that was not wanted by George H.W. Bush.

I find it admirable how the Bush family and the current president and first lady as well as current administration services succeeded in honoring the respect of office, effort to refrain from any clear displays of animosity as Pres. H.W. Bush would have wanted it and believed obligatory under his code of conduct. The Bush family visited the White House and the Trump couple visited the Bush family at Blair House. An effort was made on both "sides".

I find no reason to denigrate the actions of anyone in the Trump or Bush sphere. They made an effort not to abuse the memory of the 41st president. If they could do it in such extremis I hope more of us can find a way to do as they did for just a bit more of today.



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paprikash

I agree Becca - their hate is sickening

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katrina_ellen

Why are some here claiming to be decent people yet using an ex-Presidents funeral for political fodder?

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ojo_sigo

According to Wikipedia, the Apostles Creed is used by Presbyterians. besides that, isn't the occasion bigger than this pouty demonstration?

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Ziemia(6a)

Trump's posture (in that photo above) is not one indicating respectful observation.

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Becca Reese

Oh, chase, I was just pointing out that it wouldn't be the Trumps who acted disrespectfully, and I was right. The internet took notice.

But, all you have is Trump's "posture", lol.

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chase_gw

Yes, you were busy pointing out........ Not sure what the difference is between Trump's "posture" and let's say Hilary' s but have at it.

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katrina_ellen

Now what's wrong with Trumps posture, this is hilarious.

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chase_gw

I dunno ask Becca she is the one who mentioned it.

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Embothrium(Sunset Climate Zone 5, USDA Hardiness Zone 8)

Malignant narcissist Trump always looks bored whenever his personality disorder is not being gratified.

Art of the Deal Trump told the antiabortion voting block what it wanted to hear in order to "make the sale". He's only as Christian as he needs to be in order to maintain the political benefits he gets by assuming that pose. Everyone that continues to support him had something they were looking for before he ran, got taken in during his campaign. And still haven't wised up.

Well, everyone that isn't one of the ultra-wealthy whose agenda he is advancing.

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purrmich _6

The internet took notice??


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chase_gw

So do you suppose Trump invited all the past Presidents back to the WH for a drink , snacks and a visit ?

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redsox_gw

According to Wikipedia, the Apostles Creed is used by Presbyterians.
besides that, isn't the occasion bigger than this pouty demonstration?

One would think that when you are invited to a special event be it wedding, christening, funeral, where you are there to support the mourners, bar mitzvah, baptism, whatever, you would have the sensibility and compassion to respect the circumstance. But sensibility and compassion are not a feature of toddler trump.

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Becca Reese

Nope, but I'd bet Bill was hoping he could sidle up to Melania on a couch. He would have jumped at the chance.

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Becca Reese

redsox_gw

According to Wikipedia, the Apostles Creed is used by Presbyterians.
besides that, isn't the occasion bigger than this pouty demonstration?

One would think that when you are invited to a special event be it
wedding, christening, funeral, where you are there to support the
mourners, bar mitzvah, baptism, whatever, you would have the sensibility
and compassion to respect the circumstance. But sensibility and
compassion are not a feature of toddler trump.

The Trumps were there, supporting. Jeb Bush said the Trumps could not have been nicer! I know that just drives the haters around the bend, but the Trumps have been wonderful throughout 41's passing.

You are not required to worship. Did you see Joe Biden saying the creed? Did you see a Jew saying the creed?

It's disturbing that anyone would take issue with a Catholic not saying the Episcopal creed.

This is just more nitpicking about nothing. In fact, it's very wrong. You don't impose religion on anyone. I can't believe the leftists need to be told this.

If you want to be tolerant, you might start by actually understanding the beliefs and practices of others, then work your way up to respecting them.

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Becca Reese

tRump has never been in a church in his life.

Wow. Sounds like projection.

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dandyfopp

LOL

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rob333 (zone 6b/7a)

make of this what you will:

James 1 25-26

But whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues in it—not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it—they will be blessed in what they do.

26 Those who consider themselves religious and yet do not keep a tight rein on their tongues deceive themselves, and their religion is worthless. 27 Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

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chase_gw

" It's disturbing that anyone would take issue with a Catholic not saying the Episcopal creed."


Hate to break it to you but that Is pretty much the same as the Catholic Apostles Creed. There is no way a Catholic wouldn' t recite that.

As a matter of fact the entire ceremony was pretty much lockstep with a Catholic Mass.......except no consecration and communion

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vgkg Z-7 Va(Z-7)

tRump has never been in a church in his life.

He might have attended 2 weddings and a funeral?

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Becca Reese

chase_gw Hate to break it to you but that Is pretty much the same as the Catholic Apostles Creed

No kidding, chase. Hate to break it to you, but it's not the Catholic creed. You think we don't appreciate the things which are similar?

Similar, but not the same.

But, do let me know when my creed is the same as the Episcopal creed. Ex-cathedra, of course.

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Becca Reese

except no consecration and communion

Yeah, just those little, subtle differences, LOL!!!!

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redsox_gw

Nope, but I'd bet Bill was hoping he could sidle up to Melania on a couch. He would have jumped at the chance.

Why debase the funeral of a republican leader with sex talk? So much hate. So disturbing! Is that all you think about?

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chase_gw

that Is pretty much the same as the Catholic Apostles Creed

As I said .......pretty much the same .......much more than similiar

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redsox_gw

If you want to be tolerant, you might start by actually understanding
the beliefs and practices of others, then work your way up to respecting
them.

I have been to many, many ceremonies outside of my religion and participated in all of them. Do you know me? What a pathetic comment. I'm tolerant of vaccines too. Because I have a brain.

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katrina_ellen

The thought of Hillary reciting the apostles creed is just so other-worldly.

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Embothrium(Sunset Climate Zone 5, USDA Hardiness Zone 8)

>Those who consider themselves religious and yet do not keep a tight rein on their tongues deceive themselves, and their religion is worthless<

That statement should be part of the directions for using the forum.

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redsox_gw

You are not required to worship. Did you see Joe Biden saying the creed? Did you see a Jew saying the creed?

In addition, love the comparison here between "Joe Biden" and "a Jew" any random jew? Tell me more, O Tolerant One.

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d_gw

Trump couldn't recite any version the Apostels' Creed even if his life depended on it. NOT a Christian.

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mrskjun(9)

Looks like a few here can tell God why they took over His job. If Trump says he is a Christian, that's between him and the REAL God.

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Becca Reese

I hope you don't participate in things you shouldn't, redsox. Obviously you have no appreciation that the Creed is our profession of faith. As such, I should NOT say any other creed than my faith's.

Still not getting it.

Sure, we can participate appropriately, but if you are not a Catholic and go up to receive communion, not cool.

Again, this is an inappropriate dig at Melania. Again. She did the right thing. Throughout.

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chase_gw

https://www.episcopalchurch.org/creeds

The Episcopalian Apostles Creed is identical to the one we say in the Catholic church....rock than to the " we believe in the holy catholic church" . The more formal Nicean creed is rarely recited........and it wasn't today

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vgkg Z-7 Va(Z-7)

trump only worships his golden calf god, he makes that pretty clear.

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CindyMac(8b)

When you attend a funeral you participate in the ceremony out of respect. Otherwise, what's the point of being there?

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Becca Reese

We say the Nicene, chase. Been that way for awhile now.

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katrina_ellen

Like the left here really cares about the apostles creed! Oh the hypocrisy.

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Becca Reese

When you attend a funeral you participate in the ceremony out of respect. Otherwise, what's the point of being there?

Um, to support the grieved? Do you think non Catholics should participate in communion and receive? Do you think a Jew attending a Catholic funeral mass should say the Our Father?

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CindyMac(8b)

Now what's wrong with Trumps posture, this is hilarious.


He looks like he's taking a dump.

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jn3344

Hes a sociopath. His only creed is money.

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Becca Reese

Like the left here really cares about the apostles creed! Oh the hypocrisy.

Oh, I know. They only invoke religion to use it as a weapon. The sheer level of ignorance tells you they haven't darkened the doors of any place of worship very often, if ever.

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chase_gw

"You are so out of your lane, chase, that your ignorance of the Creed is just sad."

Really ? Think it may be you way or of your lane

The Episcopalian Apostles Creed

The Apostles' Creed

I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth;
I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord.
He was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit
and born of the Virgin Mary.
He suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried.
He descended to the dead.
On the third day he rose again.
He ascended into heaven,
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen

The Catholic Apostles Creed

https://www.catholic.org/prayers/prayer.php?p=220

I believe in God,
the Father Almighty,
Creator of heaven and earth,
and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died and was buried;
He descended into hell;
on the third day He rose again from the dead;
He ascended into heaven,
and is seated at the right hand of God the Father Almighty;
from there He will come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the Holy Catholic Church,
the communion of Saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and life everlasting.

Amen.

Edited to highlight in bold where they are different

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dandyfopp

Guys, Donnie didn't know the words.. and you gotta be able to read the program.

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CindyMac(8b)

Trump is neither Catholic or Jewish.

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

In case some readers were wondering, the Apostles' Creed is an early statement of belief widely used by any number of Christian denominations such as the Catholic Church, Lutheranism, Anglicanism [which includes Episcopalian], Presbyterians, Methodists, and Congregationalists.

-------------------

Apostles' Creed:

"Because of the early origin of its original form, it does not address some Christological issues defined in the Nicene and other Christian Creeds. It thus says nothing explicitly about the divinity of either Jesus or the Holy Spirit. This makes it acceptable to many Arians and Unitarians. Nor does it address many other theological questions which became objects of dispute centuries later." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostles%27_Creed

-----------------------------------------

The Nicene Creed:

"The Oriental Orthodox and Assyrian churches use this profession of faith with the verbs in the original plural ("we believe"), but the Eastern Orthodox and Catholic churches convert those verbs to the singular ("I believe"). The Anglican and many Protestant denominations generally use the singular form, sometimes the plural.

The earlier Apostles' Creed is also used in the Latin West, but not in the Eastern liturgies." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicene_Creed

------------------------------------------

Sounds like most Christian denominations accept both versions, but that the Eastern Orthodox accept only the Nicene Creed?

So it seems that any regular church-goer to any mainstream church (including Trump's church, the Presbyterian) should have regularly heard the Apostles' Creed and therefore could have mumbled through at least parts of it, as many of us still can now years later.

Or at least folded his hands and bowed his head, as is customary.

But then, Trump bows to no man, nor to any God/god, it seems?

Kate

ETA: Corrected the designation of Trump's church.

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purrmich _6

Oh, I know. They only invoke religion to use it as a weapon. The sheer level of ignorance tells you they haven't darkened the doors of any place of worship very often, if ever.

What the blank are you talking about?? I resent your insinuations and your extremism.

Do not tell anyone about their faith and religion. You can cloak it in "the left" but it's a personal attack on many of us. And I'll be happy to email a complaint.

Get a grip whoever you are.

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Becca Reese

I'm surprised the Clintons didn't burst into flames when they read it off the page.

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katrina_ellen

How do you know cindymac? I thought the left believed in not judging another's beliefs. Lol.

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Becca Reese

I resent your insinuations and your extremism.

Good, and I yours

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CindyMac(8b)

Y'all would've been calling Obama the anti-Christ if he stood there and said nothing.


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rob333 (zone 6b/7a)

I also meant to say, being fully protestant, I still went to the trouble of observing Jewish rituals at my friends funeral. Out of respect. I think respect is the issue we're talking about here. Or lack thereof.

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chase_gw

It's clear who's ignorance of the Creed is showing.......I can say it from memory. No doubt silence will follow

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CindyMac(8b)

How do you know cindymac?


How do I know what?

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sunflower_petal(5a)

" I still went to the trouble of observing Jewish rituals at my friends funeral. Out of respect. I think respect is the issue we're talking about here. "

Respect for sure.

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CindyMac(8b)

Lutheran Apostles' Creed:


I believe in God, the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,

And in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died and was buried.
He descended into hell.
The third day he rose again from the dead.
He ascended into heaven
and sits at the right hand of God
the Father almighty.
From there he will come to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy Christian Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.

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katrina_ellen

LOL, all of a sudden theres so many experts popping up who goggled the Apostles Creed. I hope you all take it to heart instead of just reciting it.

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Pidge

So one creed differs from another in a phrase or two. This just does not seem like a big deal to me.

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CindyMac(8b)

I hope you all take it to heart instead of just reciting it.


Trump can't even be bothered to do that.

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sunflower_petal(5a)

All anyone had to do was apparently read off the paper provided at the funeral. You don't even need to know the differences.

Is that so hard to extend your respect to that level?

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Becca Reese

Yes, fingers flying across keyboards to to glean just enough information to think they are informed, then coming back to tell people who actually practice religion what's what.

It's just precious.

All because the OP is indefensible.

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CindyMac(8b)

So one creed differs from another in a phrase or two. This just does not seem like a big deal to me.


The big deal is Trump couldn't be bothered.

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CindyMac(8b)

Trump is not Catholic.

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redsox_gw

I also meant to say, being fully protestant, I still went to the trouble
of observing Jewish rituals at my friends funeral. Out of respect. I
think respect is the issue we're talking about here. Or lack thereof.

Makes sense to me. People who are not Catholic don't go up to receive communion. They stay in their seats and no one else cares.

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dandyfopp


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ojo_sigo

The funeral was not about Trump, instead the wishes of the deceased, most likely words that he thought would comfort the bereaved that Trump could have read with empathy for the Bushes.

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katrina_ellen

"Y'all would've been calling Obama the anti-Christ if he stood there and said nothing."

So that's why its a big deal? Revenge? OK, but I think you are flying in the face of the meaning of the Apostles Creed.

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chase_gw

Really? BTW a humble , "sorry, I was wrong " from you may be in order


"You are so out of your lane, chase, that your ignorance of the Creed is just sad.

Instead of learning something when they get an answer, they just dig into their ignorance and give it a tighter embrace."

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Becca Reese

All anyone had to do was apparently read off the paper provided at the funeral. You don't even need to know the differences.

Is that so hard to extend your respect to that level?

It's a profession of faith and as a Catholic, I am not professing the Episcopal faith. Sorry. Not doing it.

Melania was respectful and the fact that the OP would conflate her standing quietly is testament to ignorance about how Christian faiths and creeds differ.

The Pope and Rome have changed the Catholic creed.

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CindyMac(8b)

So that's why its a big deal? Revenge? OK, but I think you are flying in the face of the meaning of the Apostles Creed.

No, just pointing out the hypocrisy.

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THOR, Son of ODIN


Obama - 1 wife, 26 yrs, 2 kids by his wife, church goer, activist,
politician, no extramarital scandals - ANTICHRIST

Trump - 3 wives, 5 kids by 3 women, abortions by mistresses, non church
goer, casino owner, multiple extramarital scandals - GOD’S ANOINTED

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katrina_ellen

I'm gonna need waders to get thru the hypocrisy on this thread.

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dockside_gw

I am no longer a Lutheran (haven't been for 40 years) but I can still say the Apostle's Creed from memory. It is exactly the same as the Catholic version above except "Christian" is usually said instead of "catholic".

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Becca Reese

Really? BTW a humble , "sorry, I was wrong " from you may be in order

I'm not wrong, chase. The fact that you believe creeds are interchangeable means you are out of your depth understanding the Catholic faith.

BTW, that service isn't a mass. I can't go to an Episcopal service and say I fulfilled my obligation, despite how similar they seem to the secular crowd.

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d_gw

The original post is indefensible?

I think clinging to the belief that Trump isn't lying about being a Protestant Christian is indefensible. We just saw concrete evidence that he has no clue about the significance of reciting the Apostels' Creed during a Protestant service.

Like I said in my post, If Trump is Christian, I am Santa Claus.

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chase_gw

Becca, just so you know, although it is none of your business, I am a practicing Catholic. Glad to go head to head with you ....and yes they are pretty much interchangeable as is the Our Father.

If I recall directly so is Paprikash, if I have that wrong I appologize. I am certain she will confirm that the two creeds are almost identical and that I know what I am talking about

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Becca Reese

ief that Trump isn't lying about being a Protestant Christian is
indefensible. We just saw concrete evidence that he has no clue about
the significance of reciting the Apostels' Creed during a Protestant
service.

Yeah, let's go with that...

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d_gw

Yeah, let's go with that...

Excellent rebuttal.

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chase_gw

Of course it is not a Mass.......that's not what I said. I said it was in lockstep with Mass except for the Consecration and Communion. Why do you always misquote?

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Becca Reese

chase, if you practice, you'd know we say the Nicene at mass. Very rare to say the Apostles.

There have been several changes to wording and it's a reflection of how painstakingly each and every word of the mass is chosen.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Nothing was stopping the Trumps from respectfully reading what the others were saying. But no . . .

.

Trump is behaving as he always has, and the Bush family was gracious to accept his predictable boorish behavior at this solemn event.

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katrina_ellen

Obama claimed to be a Christian and yet he gave a speech poking fun at people "clinging to their religion and their Bibles".

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dandyfopp

This explains it.



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Embothrium(Sunset Climate Zone 5, USDA Hardiness Zone 8)

26 Those who consider themselves religious and yet do not keep a tight rein on their tongues deceive themselves, and their religion is worthless

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Anyone claiming that Catholics are not Christians has little credibility when stating opinions on religion.

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kadefol

I wonder if the Clintons and Obamas and Carters drew straws and the losers had to sit next to the trumps.

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Vith

ROFL he sits there scowling with his arms crossed. Obviously was forced to be there just to be there, and could care less. He could have made it a little less obvious. ;)

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rhoder551 zone 9b-10

Donnie's too vain to put on a pair of reading glasses...

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judeNY_gw

Just to correct a fallacy, the trumps were not wonderful about the funeral. They just did not (yet) do anything obviously offensive as is their standard practice. That's a pretty low bar. Give them time.

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ubro(2a)

LOL, all of a sudden theres so many experts popping up who goggled the Apostles Creed. I hope you all take it to heart instead of just reciting it.

Why?( FYI I know it by heart) it is nothing but an affirmation of a belief system, it doesn't really give any direction as to morals.

I would stand with others who say it but I certainly would not feel the need to affirm my belief in a religion I do not adhere to. The problem is that Trump says he is religious but acts as though he is not.


Like the left here really cares about the apostles creed! Oh the hypocrisy.

Oh, I know. They only invoke religion to use it as a weapon. The sheer level of ignorance tells you they haven't darkened the doors of any place of worship very often, if ever.

Oh dear, and you are the posters that think the left is always posting insulting remarks. Frankly, IMO Jesus was a left leaning person so the insinuation that only right wing people are religious is funny and very narrow minded.

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

And for the record, this issue has nothing to do with Catholicism. It is about what Trump, a Presbyterian (though probably non-practicing), should be doing at an Episcopalian funeral.

Since both the Apostles' Creed and the Nicene Creed are acceptable and recited by BOTH denominations--the Presbyterian and the Episcopalian--and with the same phrasing, there is no problem. Just go ahead and recite the one you do in your own church. It will be the same as the one used at the funeral.

Unless, like me, you still lapse into King James' English when it comes to reciting Bible passages and creeds.

I do have a question for the Catholics--not that it has anything to do with Pres. Bush's funeral--but can you give us some of those new phrasings of the Apostles' or Nicene Creed that the Pope (I guess) has authorized? I know nothing about them and would be interested is seeing what those changes are. Thank you.

Kate

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macimom

For someone who is suppose to be such a great businessman one would think he would have learned something about body language somewhere along the way. His body speaks loud and clear all the time. Clearly disinterested and defensive in the pictures here. As he appears at most official functions.


I have been to memorial/funeral services for many faiths and denominations. Am always respectful and join in when I can. The Apostle Creed and The Lords Prayer differ in wording from denomination to denomination. I either just don't recite the different part or I say it under my breath as I learned it.

But the Trumps had the words in print right in front of them. They could have said the creed.



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macimom

Becca

"I'm surprised the Clintons didn't burst into flame when they read it off the page"


Exactly why the trumps didn't even bother to read it. They KNEW they would burst into flames.


And since when are you the self proclaimed authority on all things religion?

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rob333 (zone 6b/7a)

I guess the difference in my train of thought is, I agree with all that stuff. I'd say it. I don't see it to be proclaiming any particular dedication to any faith, and I realize it's not my actions that have my position secured. There are no "laws" for me. Just acceptance. No law can make or destroy my place.

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ann_t

Mrsk "Looks like a few here can tell God why they took over His job. If Trump says he is a Christian, that's between him and the REAL God."


Trump is no more Christian than a few others here that profess to be, but their participation here and what they reveal of themselves, shows otherwise.

Remember when Dementia Don said

"Moderator Frank Luntz asked Trump whether he has ever asked God for forgiveness for his actions.

"I am not sure I have. I just go on and try to do a better job from there. I don't think so," he said. "I think if I do something wrong, I think, I just try and make it right. I don't bring God into that picture. I don't."

Trump said that while he hasn't asked God for forgiveness, he does participate in Holy Communion.

"When I drink my little wine -- which is about the only wine I drink -- and have my little cracker, I guess that is a form of asking for forgiveness, and I do that as often as possible because I feel cleansed," he said. "I think in terms of 'let's go on and let's make it right.'"

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CindyMac(8b)

as often as possible

In other words, NEVER.


"As Pew reports, Donald Trump is the nation’s ninth chief executive to be affiliated with a Presbyterian church. Though he no longer regularly attends a Presbyterian church, Trump was raised a Presbyterian. He still considers himself one, and once said, “my religion is a wonderful religion.” Nonetheless, Trump caused quite a stir when, as a presidential candidate, he said that attends Marble CollegiateChurch in Manhattan. The church released a statement saying that Trump wasn’t an “active member” of the congregation."

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nickel_kg(6)

(some of ya'll must be Lutherans of a different Synod than me -- we've always said "holy catholic church", using the word "catholic" to mean "world wide". I always laughed (inwardly) at one pastor who always rushed thru that phrase as if it were going to burn his lips, lol.)

Personally my expectations for Trump's behavior are so low that I'd rate him as doing pretty well -- for him -- today. So that's good.



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purrmich _6

This Lutheran grew up saying "catholic" knowing it meant Christians in communion.


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blfenton

All I know is that trump has never felt the need to ask God for forgiveness

Trump said that while he hasn't asked God for forgiveness, he does participate in Holy Communion.

"When I drink my little wine -- which is about the only wine I drink -- and have my little cracker, I guess that is a form of asking for forgiveness, and I do that as often as possible because I feel cleansed," he said. "I think in terms of 'let's go on and let's make it right.'"

https://www.cnn.com/2015/07/18/politics/trump-has-never-sought-forgiveness/index.html

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CindyMac(8b)

(some of ya'll must be Lutherans of a different Synod than me -- we've always said "holy catholic church", using the word "catholic" to mean "world wide". I always laughed (inwardly) at one pastor who always rushed thru that phrase as if it were going to burn his lips, lol.)


Missouri Synod. We said Christian.

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texanjana(8)

I grew up Methodist, husband grew up Baptist and we are now Presbyterian. In all of those denominations, the Apostle's Creed is virtually identical to the Episcopalian one posted above. Trump is not Christian and doesn't even pretend to be except when it is expedient to gain something he wants from his cult.

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nickel_kg(6)

My first church as an adult was LCMS, but "salt water" LCMS.

edited to add: Or perhaps they've changed the preferred translation since I lasted attended that synod, 15 years ago. I see on their website they no longer use 'catholic' in the two main creeds, but kept it for the last line of the Anathasian. Lutheran geekery ;-)

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purrmich _6

My first Lutheran Snyod was Wisconsin

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Lily316

Always Holy Catholic in my Lutheran church, Again I was deleted for no reason.

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Becca Reese

If Trump would have said the Creed, your heads would have exploded. "How dare he!! Sacrilege!! Jesus Wept!!!!"

There's just no pleasing the haters.

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d_gw

Becca, do you believe that Trump is a Protestant Christian?

If so, do you believe he should have recited the Creed like every other Protestant Christian in the church?

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spanielgirl

Raised Presbyterian, married Catholic. No problem switching between creeds. I say it one way when I am in a Protestant church and adapt in the Catholic one. Easy peasy. I think God can handle it either way.

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jerzeegirl(9b)

Trump's posture (in that photo above) is not one indicating respectful observation.

True. In fact, it looks like he's sitting on the can.

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Rita / Bring Back Sophie 4 Real

I checked, the Presbyterians have the Apostle's Creed/Nicene Creed in their liturgy.

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CindyMac(8b)

Rita, you're wasting your time presenting facts.

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margievank

I don't care what you all say, I found the funeral of George HW Bush the most heart warming, feel good funeral of my life!

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ann_t

I agree, if funerals can be wonderful this one was. I felt so sad for George Bush. You could see the sorrow on his face and when he broke down, it was heartbreaking. Trump was just one more person in the pews. Wouldn't have matter if he was there or not.

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Becca Reese

To AMERICANS, it matters that our President was present at the funeral of a former President. The Bushes, being classy and decent, understand this and let ALL Americans share in their father's ceremonies.

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live_wire_oak

Anytime a word like "classy is repeatedly misused, it means drinking Champale out of a glass with a straw in the room with the plastic furniture covers fancy. Not class. Classism. With them on the bottom, wishfully looking up and dreaming of the vulgar gold toilets of the nouveau riche that they will never have.



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Lily316

So what say you when Barbara banned tRump from HER funeral?

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

I say good for Barbara. I always did rather admire that woman!

Kate

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live_wire_oak

Labels are less important that deeds. A tree is known by its fruit.


Matthew 12:33-35


33 “Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or make the tree bad and its fruit bad, for the tree is known by its fruit. 34 You brood of vipers! How can you speak good, when you are evil? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. 35 The good person out of his good treasure brings forth good, and the evil person out of his evil treasure brings forth evil.



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terrene(5b MA)

Trump is about as Christian as Tony Soprano. I can hardly think of a person who less represents the teachings of Jesus.

Can you imagine Jesus making fun of leper or cripple? Trump lies constantly (bears false witness), loves money (worships the golden calf), is a serial adulterer, etc. and probably worse.

It is obvious that Trump and his wife are not engaged in the religious ritual of the service, which would be fairly generic for most Christians or those who grew up in the Christian religion.

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how2girl

Didn’t he demonstrate that he doesn’t know all of the words to the national anthem - so why would he know the Apostles Creed ?

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lily316

Or how to color a flag with kindergartners?

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sableincal

There were a few Saudis in the congregation today, in full desert regalia. I wonder what they did, especially regarding the Apostle's Creed.

I did a bit of checking on The Donald's religious background. His parents and all five children attended the Marble Collegiate Church in Manhattan. He and Ivana were married there. Norman Vincent Peale was the very famous pastor for many years. I've no doubt that he identifies as a Protestant Christian, no matter how "un-Christian-like" his behavior and words sometimes are.

Watching him today (although I was mostly fixed on the Bush family) and considering the many other times we've seen and heard him, I wonder if he is not on the spectrum, but undiagnosed of course. Not on the far side, of autism, but instead something milder, heck, I've forgotten the term. That plus being ADHD would give him a lot of problems, particularly in formal situations where he's expected to conform to rote behavior. Imo in these situations Melania, having learned what to do, keeps him on the straight and narrow. Mostly.

I didn't even notice the incident about the Apostle's Creed. That's because I didn't know anything about the Creed until this thread. I was raised Baptist and the Baptist Church does not use it. But probably all the presidents there today including DT were contemplating their own funerals, which would make for some heavy thought. All of them are already planned, even DT's. It's one of the obligations a president has to face doing fairly early on in his/her presidency.

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purrmich _6

Aspergers. I think people put thoughts of themselves aside at a funeral, especially of one who was so full of life and there were many stories to tell. But, trump thinks about trump. So maybe his problem was he spent the 2+ hours thinking only of himself.

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sableincal

That's it, Aspergers. Thanks, Purrmich!

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nannygoat_gw

I read that neither he nor Melania sang the hymns either.

As a lapsed Episcopalian, I no longer say the creed when in a religious service as that is no longer my belief. However if I were presenting myself to the world as a Christian and in full view of cameras, I would make the effort to at least mouth the words.

The fact that he made no effort to participate in the religious aspects of the service says a lot to me about his state of mind. I think he is simply clueless in regard to what would be considered appropriate behavior.

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ann_t

Trump is about as Christian as Tony "Soprano. I can hardly think of a person who less represents the teachings of Jesus."

How does one claim to be a Christian and support trump at the same time. Doesn't work.

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redsox_gw

Aspergers. I think people put thoughts of themselves aside at a funeral,
especially of one who was so full of life and there were many stories
to tell. But, trump thinks about trump. So maybe his problem was he
spent the 2+ hours thinking only of himself.

Are you a psychologist? If so, it is remarkable that you are able to diagnose someone from your armchair. If not, even more ridiculous. I know people well with this actual diagnosis and your flippant use is salt in their wounds.

Do you also diagnose Parkinson's from your computer?

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mrskjun(9)

It works just fine ann_t. I don't look to Trump to take care of my spiritual needs. No one in government can do that. Just don't interfere in my right to worship as I choose. Some leaders share their faith, some don't. It's not listed as a requirement to hold public office.

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nannygoat_gw

Some leaders share their faith, some don't.

It's not a question of sharing one's faith but rather one of knowing what is appropriate behavior when on display in front of a vast TV audience.


It's not listed as a requirement to hold public office.

Perhaps not officially, but I think that everyone understands that anyone running for public office in this country needs to publicly present a Christian belief.


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judeNY_gw

When he claimed connection to Marble Collegiate during the campaign, they put out at statement unequivocally stating he did not. IF he and Ivana were married there it could easily been the last time he was in a church. Which would be fine if he acknowledged that but is just another problem when he tells another lie about it.

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mrskjun(9)

nannygoat, do you mean like Keith Ellison?

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mrskjun(9)

jude, why should his religiosity or lack thereof be any of our business?

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Ziemia(6a)

Trump is fake. He claimed to be religious.

We can't find any signs of him being religious. We find plenty of signs he is not religious.

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ann_t

Sorry Mrsk, trump supporter and Christian are a contradiction. Oxymoron.

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nannygoat_gw

nannygoat, do you mean like Keith Ellison?

I should have said "running for president" which is what I was thinking. State and local offices may be different depending on the area of the country.

Growing up in the south, "fine Christian gentleman" was invariably a description of anyone seeking public office.

I don't think this country is anywhere close to electing an atheist, agnostic, or Unitarian president.

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

I'm not worried about his religious condition. The problem for me is how rude, angry, and insulted he looks as he sits in the front row of the church funeral. He is taking all the deserved praise heaped on Pres. Bush as insulting swats directed at himself!

I will say one thing partly in his support, however. Nannygoat said, "As a lapsed Episcopalian, I no longer say the creed when in a religious service as that is no longer my belief."

That is a good point and reminded me of how I respond when I must attend a church service since I am a lapsed Lutheran. I would feel hypocritical to pretend I was saying -- and MEANING-- the Apostles' Creed, so I just look straight-forward, head and eyes slightly lowered--but saying nothing. So maybe we should give Trump a couple points for not pretending--although he loses a couple points for looking so mean and disagreeable!

Here are Trump's formal church affiliations, according to Quora:

-------------------------------------

"Trump claimed to be a member of the PCUSA, a theologically liberal Presbyterian denomination. When members of the PCUSA attempted to ascertain the individual Presbyterian church to which he belonged (in order to begin church discipline for his perversity, lies, and thefts), it was determined that he was not a member in any of their churches: he had lied about where his church membership was held. . . .

[. . . ]

While Trump claims to have attended Peale’s Marble Collegiate Church as a child, there appears to be little evidence to suggest that he attended in any consistent manner at all. This information, like the first mentioned, appears to be a ruse to convince the somewhat lapsed evangelicals who form so much of his support that he is similar to them in religious fervor: i.e., not too concerned. In essence, as an article in The Atlantic recently noted, Trump’s base is not so much true evangelicals (people who are involved on a weekly basis with their respective churches), but rather those who were evangelicals at one point, but have lapsed in their involvement without repudiating the former “evangelical” moniker. As one would expect, those who do take their faith seriously often have real issues with Trump’s immorality.

. . . If he does possess beliefs in any sense of the word, they appear to be so faint, vague, or incongruous as to exclude the possibility of any real effect on his life in any demonstrable fashion at all."

----------------------

Quora also mentions the following:

"As a child, he attended Sunday School at the First Presbyterian Church in Jamaica, Queens, and had his Confirmation there.

In the 1970s, his family joined the Marble Collegiate Church (an affiliate of the Reformed Church in America) in Manhattan

[. . .]

Trump has had relationships with a number of Christian spiritual leaders, including Florida pastor Paula White, who has been called his "closest spiritual confidant."

In 2015, he received a blessing from Greek Orthodox priest Emmanuel Lemelson

and in 2016, he released a list of his religious advisers, including James Dobson, Jerry Falwell Jr., Ralph Reed and others."

-----------------------

And that is the sum total of Trump's religious connections, as far as we can know.

If he would just admit he is not religious, I could have a lot more respect for him--in that regard, anyway.

Kate

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mrskjun(9)

So, Hillary spent the whole service sneering. Which one does it better?

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margievank

There isn't any formula to follow when attending a funeral. Each person will handle a funeral in their own way.

Perhaps Trump who appeared stiff with his arms folded was in denial of death.

This funeral was extraordinary in my opinion. I imagine most watching must have done some life reflecting.

Watching that line up of the Trumps, Obamas, Clintons, and the Carters, was interesting to see. I sure wish we had the technology to read captions over their heads as their thoughts ticker taped across their minds;) On second thought, that is a bad idea. That would have ruined the funeral.

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

And what does that have to do with Trump's so-called religion?

Are you talking about Hillary in the picture at the top of this page? I don't see "sneering"--I see a woman who looks tired and feeling her age.

Kate

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

What pic are you referring to? I don't see any grinning one.

Kate

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Ziemia(6a)

Sitting in the same pew as someone who appreciates and supports calls, nearly weekly, for your imprisonment without due process must be strange.

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Here is the pic I was referring to earlier--Trump looking angry.

Hillary looks tired--but maybe that is just the lighting since she looks much better in the other pics, now that I check.

Kate

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margievank

I wish I had my goats Ziemia??

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margievank

If you ask me they ALL look tired in that pic Kate.

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CindyMac(8b)



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dublinbay z6 (KS)

I'm glad to know that, Cindy. Load off my mind! : )

Kate

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Bunny

Isn't that Ivanka a few rows back? Although she has converted to Judaism, she was reciting the Apostles' Creed.

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ann_t

It tells you,just how screwed up repubs are when they expect Hillary and President Obama do do anything more than be coldly civil to a man that has been nothing but exceptionally nasty to them. And these same repubs also thought that John McCain and his family should welcome him with open arms.

There is something seriously wrong with the brains and hearts of repubs.

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CindyMac(8b)

"From the moment he crossed the transept of the soaring Washington National Cathedral, tore off his overcoat and took his seat in the front pew, President Trump was an outsider.

When the others sang an opening hymn, his mouth did not move. When the others read the Apostles’ Creed, he stood stoically. And when one eulogist after another testified to George H.W. Bush’s integrity and character and honesty and bravery and compassion, Trump sat and listened, often with his lips pursed and his arms crossed over his chest.

Wednesday’s state funeral was carefully orchestrated to be about one man and his milestones — Bush the father, the friend, the war hero and the lifelong public servant. But inevitably it became about Trump, too, for it was impossible to pay tribute to the 41st president without drawing implicit contrasts with the 45th."


Continues here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/bush-funeral-trump-sits-with-fellow-presidents-but-still-stands-alone/2018/12/05/fdc6663a-f8a3-11e8-8d64-4e79db33382f_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.5fa2c4142299

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ohiomom

Frankly the Trumps look like they haven't spent much time in any church. I don't remember the Reagans spending a lot of time in church/pics, but I do remember quite a few photos with their astrologer.


Love them or hate them, the Carters, Clintons and Obamas are very comfortable and familiar in/with a church setting.

1/2 cent

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margievank

There is something seriously wrong with the brains and hearts of repubs.

One who lives in glass houses should not throw stones.

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cattyles

Ann t is exactly right. It’s ridiculous for Trump or his apologists to expect anything more from the Clintons or Obamas. Trump can’t even sit respectfully and attentively during the funeral of a past president. He is an embarrassment.

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dandyfopp

Traitors don't get a national day of mourning, they get prison time.

That was the bug in Donnie's bonnet.

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blfenton

I don't know the protocol but as trump was last to arrive is it on him to go down the row and shake the hands of the past presidents out of respect or is he supposed to just plop down on his seat and wait for them to come to him?

When President W Bush arrived he went down the row and shook everyone's hand. As far as I'm concerned the Obamas and the Clintons were the ones to show class for reaching across to shake trumps hand. The things that he has said about them has nothing to do with politics but rather were personal attacks that never end.

ETA - sorry, the Clintons didn't shake his hand - however the Obamas did.

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d_gw

Expecting a man who runs in front of an elderly Queen to have any notion of grace and etiquette is ridiculous.

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ann_t

Trump knows that no one will be honouring him when he is dead and gone.

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Ziemia(6a)

1. There are still good Republicans. There are many who see Trump as dangerous for our country.

2. Kate, are you asking about missing comments or threads?

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Ziemia--my mistake. I thought I was posting on a different thread. : (

(I deleted my comment if anyone is wondering what Ziemia is asking me.)

Kate

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ann_t

"1. There are still good Republicans. There are many who see Trump as dangerous for our country."

Yes, but they didn't vote for Trump. And apparently there are only a few here like that on HT.

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katrina_ellen

Michelle looks angry all the time and Hillary always has her RBF on, they say when you are over 50 you get the face you deserve.

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CindyMac(8b)

Is that why Trump looks like he does?

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katrina_ellen

That's for certain why Hillary does. She couldn't crack a smile unless it benefited her.

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sheesh(5b)

I've skipped most of this thread to wonder if Trump couldn't have just uncrossed his arms and relaxed his scowl a bit during the service, regardless of whose creed or service was being held, even if it was not his own religion, just like most all the other mourners did, regardless of their various religions.

I apologize if this has been covered at length in this thread.

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elvis

nannygoat_gw Some leaders share their faith, some don't. It's not a question of sharing one's faith but rather one of knowing what is appropriate behavior when on display in front of a vast TV audience.


IOW, fake it. I don't believe in "prayer" by rote.

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dandyfopp

Why again wasn't everyone happy to see Donnie?

....First was the president Trump said was illegitimate (Barack Obama); then the first lady he called a profligate spender of taxpayer dollars (Michelle Obama); then the president he called the worst abuser of women (Bill Clinton); then the first lady and secretary of state he said should be in jail (Hillary Clinton); and then the president he said was the second-worst behind Obama (Jimmy Carter) and his wife, Rosalynn.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/bush-funeral-trump-sits-with-fellow-presidents-but-still-stands-alone/2018/12/05/fdc6663a-f8a3-11e8-8d64-4e79db33382f_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.08f523f10c57

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petalique

Katrina-E,

Michelle looks angry all the time and Hillary always has her RBF on, they say when you are over 50 you get the face you deserve.

-----

No, she does not. Yet another petty snip from the vacuous RWers here, a all while labeling others as "haters." You folks grumble O on about the hating left, while apparently oblivious the most of your posts contain the word "hate" and are jam packed with untruths and petty animus.

Want to add what should be obvious: a captured second of video, in poor definition, cannot truly depict a person's expression or countenance, unless that expression (like a prolonged scowl, folded, tense arms clenched over a roiling burger-filled gut) is sustained for 10 or more (40?) minutes and is aberrant.



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elvis

Fair enough. HC eats a lot of burgers? Huh.

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katrina_ellen

petal- well that's how Michelle looks to me, and I am not the only one who thinks that. Also, I have seen HC enough times to see her constant RBF. My sister-in-law worked for a small airlines that flew HC around at one time when she was campaigning - she really liked her beer, but beer bellies can be the pits.

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d_gw

"Hatred corrodes the vessel it's carried in."

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lily316

The pictures and lip reading had Hillary smiling and talking to Pence and wife and everyone was happy in their skin till the uncouth behemoth sat down and handed his coat like he was at a nightclub. He did not even in one single second honor the now oldest president sitting five people down from him. If he had an ounce of etiquette he'd have shaken everyone's hands as did Bush did in his hour of grief. It really must dork tRump to see the camaraderie between all the parties and he's like the last kid chosen in a pickup game. He is thoroughly detested but they are civil enough and classy enough to mostly ignore him. Hillary was smiling and friendly till he showed up. After the filth that he has said continuously about her for years now, what would YOU do? And he sat there with his legs spread wide and arms folded with the ugly scowl on his face. What's the matter, fatso? Did the eulogies to a great patriot hit home?

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sheesh(5b)

Yes, imagine. But we are the haters.

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Lynn


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katrina_ellen

"After the filth that he has said continuously about her for years now, what would YOU do?"

Multiply this about a million times for the filth that has been said about Trump - take this thread for example. LOL.

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margievank

LOL Katrina- the left thinks that their filth is the truth, lol

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Embothrium(Sunset Climate Zone 5, USDA Hardiness Zone 8)

And so the idolatry continues.

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elvis

d_gw "Hatred corrodes the vessel it's carried in."


Well, there you go. That explains HC's RBF perfectly!

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woodnymph2_gw

Of course, the Clintons did not shake hands or reach across to Trump. Would you, if this autocrat had chanted repeatedly in crowds "Lock her up!"?

Trump's body language, was, as always, unfailingly revealing: hostile, crossed arms in a defensive position, pouting, downward turning mouth. His face seemed carved in wood, in strong contrast to all the others on that row who expressed grief, respect, warmth, spiritual faith.

As I wrote on another thread, the Trumps were the only ones on that august row who did not at least try to mouth the words to the hymns sung.

As for the Apostles/ Nicene creed, I was raised a Methodist, transferred Episcopalian, and we always said "the holy catholic church", meaning in the world wide sense. Trump should have at least remembered a few of those words.

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margievank

As I wrote on another thread, the Trumps were the only ones on that august row who did not at least try to mouth the words to the hymns sung.

So what? Even if he had mouthed the words, the left then would have said "See how fake he is. mouthing the words mean nothing to him". The Trump haters will hate no matter what he does. So Trump, should be Trump and Melania should where the * I don't care* jacket more often.

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katrina_ellen

That's right margo, damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. How convenient.

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mrskjun(9)

I agree, I just don't understand it. Obama and Hillary have treated Trump with nothing but respect and kindness. Is it any wonder they snub him?

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d_gw

So much projection today. I would have been thrilled if Trump graciously acknowledged the other Presidents and First Ladies before he sat down. I would have been thrilled if he genuinely engaged in the service. Neither of those things happened.


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margievank

Sure. LOL

d_gw- you start a thread bashing Trump and then you say how thrilled you would be to have him be gracious lol lol lol....my sides are aching and my cheeks are sore from laughing..

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d_gw

He's our President. I respect the office. I am patriotic. It gives me no pleasure to watch the President of our country bully and lie and act like a buffoon.

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d_gw

Noting that a self-professed Christian has absolutely no idea how to act at a funeral service is not bashing.

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lily316

I wish I could have seen more footage of the crowd mingling, I guess after the precession left. I liked seeing Prince Charles there talking to Al Gore. I'd like to know why Ivanka and Jared were there. Who are they to be invited? It must have been dicy when former friends Ivanka and Chelsea sat near each other.

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elvis

We used the Nicene Creed:

I believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.

I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;
through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,

and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.

For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,
he suffered death and was buried,
and rose again on the third day
in accordance with the Scriptures.
He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead
and his kingdom will have no end.

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son,
who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.

I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.
I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins
and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead
and the life of the world to come. Amen.

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indygo

I was raised Presbyterian, am around Trump's age. In order to go through confirmation, we memorized the Apostle's Creed AND the Westminster Catechism. Those words never leave you. I wouldn't be able to say the words if I didn't believe them, so granted, if he doesn't believe them he shouldn't say them, though out of respect he should have read along, silently. I personally don't care whether he believes the words or not. The issue is Trump's hypocrisy and lying about his faith during the election. Staring straight ahead is like taking a knee during the Apostles Creed, something he would surely claim is disrespectful. He's a narcissistic idiot.

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Olychick

I am a non-believer. When I attend services, I don't say the prayers or take communion or cross myself, or bend a knee before entering the pew. But I know to hold the hymnal or the papers provided in front of me, mimicking what others are doing, out of respect for others.

Trump (and Melania) didn't need to sing or read the creed or even pretend to, but they could have tried to look less conspicuous in their non-participation. And THEY claim to be believers, but can't even do that?

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lily316

It's funny but after 50 years of not attending church, I can still recite the Creed verbatim. I guess it was drummed into my head in my formative years.

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gyr_falcon(Sunset 23)

6 actually. Someone forget Dick Cheney.



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macimom

I'll bet dollars to donuts that trump did not even recognize President Carter as he came in.

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mrskjun(9)

btw d_gw, is your sleigh packed?

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terrene(5b MA)

"As a lapsed Episcopalian, I no longer say the creed when in a religious service as that is no longer my belief."

I am also a lapsed Episcopalian, and am fundamentally a scientific person who could be described as "spiritual but not religious". Honestly I am not sure what forces may be out there in the Universe, but am awestruck at what science has discovered so far.

However I not only recite the Creed, and sing the hymns, and say the prayers while attending the occasional Christian religious service, and feel the inspiration and intent behind those rituals, but also respect and appreciate the worship rituals of other religions as well.

Perhaps as Lily says that is a result of what was instilled in early formative years.

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margievank

btw d_gw, is your sleigh packed?

HO-HO- HO- Merry Christmas....

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elvis

macimom

I'll bet dollars to donuts that trump did not even recognize President Carter as he came in\

Well, that would be two of us.

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ann_t

Well st least trump has an excuse what with Dementia and all.

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artemis_ma

Couldn't read everything.

A profession of BELIEF indicates to me that one shouldn't just parrot it because everyone else is. That's not respectful in the slightest. Just as non-Catholics, or those who have left that faith, should not be going up to receive Catholic communion.

I have no issue with the Trumps or anyone else not reciting it for whatever reason.

I had to quit reading this thread when it derailed into discussions of posture.

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Elvis, since most mainstream protestant churches also say the Nicene Creed, though just on special occasions, it is not clear to me--in your post above--which phrases you are claiming the pope or the Catholic Church specifically changed to reflect more accurately (I assume that was the reason) the beliefs of the Catholic Church.

Could you further elucidate?

Kate

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artemis_ma

Kate, I can't recall the distinctions between, but being raised Catholic, I do know there are differences. Google may be your friend??

I have enough respect for the faith I am no longer a part of, that I think it disrespectful for me to speak today to avow to something I am no longer a part of. Even to look "proper". Especially NOT to look "proper". And if someone finds enough distinction between the Catholic creed or a various or another Protestant creed... this is THEIR call.

I'm no longer Christian, which never in any remote way makes me want to disrespect those who are. Which is why, when I go to family weddings or funerals, I don't take Communion, but I honor my family members who do. (This also doesn't render me "atheist" or something, even though I know family members who are on the all-or-none path... Love them anyways by and large!!!)

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mayflowers

This issue of what Creed trump knows or believes is just more excusing and enabling of trump from Becca. The idea of trump having a principled stance on not reading a religious text is laughable.

I grew up Catholic as did she and went to church bi-weekly, on Sundays and on Mondays with my class, in case we missed Sunday I suppose, and I don't know the Creed. I'm not even sure when it's recited, but if it was a regular thing, I'd know it by heart just as I know the Lord's Prayer.

https://www.catholicherald.com/News/Why_Are_There_Two_Creeds_/

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Rita / Bring Back Sophie 4 Real

The only difference between what Protestants say and what Catholics say in the creed is the bit about being one holy catholic and apostolic church. The catholics part is lowercase C, meaning universal. Mainline Protestants do not say the church is apostolic. I don't think Evangelicals recite the Nicene Creed.

I have a relative by marriage who is just like Trump in a million narcisistic and bullying ways. I bet he did not say the creed because he does not know it by heart- no big deal- and he would not "stoop" to using reading glasses in public- a very big problem in my opinion.

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terrene(5b MA)

Yes it's possible that Trump didn't want to put on reading glasses, but someone who had a basic familiarity with Christianity would still be able to open the book or hold the program and pretend to read or mimic the words even if they didn't happen to have glasses.

There are also other ways to treat presbyopia such as multi-focal and mono-vision contact lenses, and corrective laser surgery, for people who don't want to wear reading glasses as they get older. Eta certainly Trump would have the best healthcare money could buy.

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Pidge

elvis writes in response to this assertion: 'll bet dollars to donuts that trump did not even recognize President Carter as he came in\

"Well, that would be two of us."

That really surprises me, elvis. I know you are many years younger than I am, but to confess that you would not have known who Carter is suggests a serious lack of historical knowledge.

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macimom

Ditto to your comment above Pidge.

One might say "unbelievable"

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CindyMac(8b)

That really surprises me, elvis. I know you are many years younger than I am, but to confess that you would not have known who Carter is suggests a serious lack of historical knowledge.

She was in high school in the 70s and recently retired, so more than likely was able to vote for Carter in '76.

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nickel_kg(6)

I didn't recognize Dole until someone said his name -- then it clicked who it was -- this was the pic of him struggling to stand to salute Bush's coffin (very touching, even if it had been a random old man). Of course sitting in the front row would be a big clue as to Jimmy and Roslyn's identity.

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Rita / Bring Back Sophie 4 Real

Totally random, but I love the title of this post. I smile every time it shows up on the HT page.

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macimom

Yes CindyMac I graduated from high school in 1970 and I know who Carter is.

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CindyMac(8b)

Macimom, same here. He was the first president I voted for.

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mrskjun(9)

LOL I voted for Carter too. Was working in an oil refinery at the time. At his directive refineries cut back on making gasoline and ramped up making number 2 heating fuel because it was supposed to be a very cold winter. So we got gas lines, and the number 2 heating fuel ended up being shipped to Saudi Arabia on tankers for some reason that I never figured out. Only democrat I ever voted for for president.


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elvis

mrskjun(9)

Oh gosh,you are going to hate this.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/dec/6/jeb-bush-gracious-trump-couldnt-have-been-nicer-af/

You mean this?

Jeb Bush: 'Gracious' Trump 'couldn't have been nicer' after my father's death

That was nice! Very gracious of Jeb, a good sport.

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purrmich _6

I don't know why anyone would expect normal behavior from trump in any setting. He's a bore and everything about his behavior reminds us and the world.

I'm surprised he could sit still for a couple of hours where none of the attention was focused on him.

Totally expected that he sat as he usually does, had the sour expression (he got the face he deserves).

HRC could have made a big effort to shake trump's hand but since trump only shook the Obama's and Bill looked expectantly but trump sat back down. Should Hillary then got up and walked over to shake his hand? Should she have smiled a welcome? When you watch that scene, trump does little to be accepted, and the entire row stiffens when he and Mel arrive. Every person there changed from chatting and reminiscing to eyes straight forward.

Gosh, golly, I can't imagine why??

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cattyles

Back to the personal attacks now that Trump’s criminality has shown up in a court of law?

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margievank

cattyles- you have not shown what Trump's criminality is yet. All talk and no proof.

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purrmich _6

What're you drinking over on "random" - I'm gonna pop on over and say hi and catch up on everyone's doings.

Then you can give us your big girl drink recipe.

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margievank

LOL- what is a big girl drink recipe?

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purrmich _6

I think your son is smart for holding a cell phone to his ear.

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margievank

LOL- I did find that rather clever.

Hey- why don't you just mellow out and have some chill time. No need to carry hostility.

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purrmich _6

I'm not being hostile. I'm just taking a page from your own book.

I'd have fun posting on the "other" side.

LOL

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elvis

cattyles

Back to the personal attacks now that Trump’s criminality has shown up in a court of law?

Are you asking for permission? When did you guys ever stop?

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margievank

purrmich _6

I'm not being hostile. I'm just taking a page from your own book.

I'd have fun posting on the "other" side.

LOL

Well, go have some "fun" on the "other" side!!

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vgkg Z-7 Va(Z-7)

Yeah, sure the Bush's were gracious to trump, he didn't include them in his favorite photo. Obama was the most gracious of them all.


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