Jackie

(Below, it is the rose just above Peace)

I've only grown Mrs. Dudley Cross of the three and really like the flowers, and the bush was disease-free from what I can recall, but the very large and heavy blooms often tended to hang down. Because of possible mildew, I would grow it where it has enough air circulation, not too close to other plants.

Flower-wise, I prefer Mrs. Dudley and William R. Smith. Both are more prone to mildew than any of the Cochet clan. Maman can frequently highly resemble Niles, though in my experience it's a much smaller plant. My Niles is from the old San Juan Bautista monster and has been tested as RMV free. Here, nine miles from the ocean in mildew central, Smith, Tillier, Rosette Delizy, Hillingdon and the Cochets are the mildew-free Teas. Jesse Hildreth is clean in Santa Barbara but mildewy as all get out here. Mme. Antoine Mari, another favorite, is lightly to moderately mildewy. Bassoues Tea is heavily mildewy.

I've seen Maman "sport" to Niles and to White Maman. I LIKE Maman, but I like White Maman more, and Niles best of all.

We should maybe suggest to the Sacramento City Cemetery Historic Rose Garden folks that those three would be great to propagate for next April's Open Garden and Rose Sale.
And maybe some Hubner Plot, too ... (probably 'Rubens') since it is also disease-free, vigorous, productive, and fragrant.

I'll just mention Maman Cochet is incredible. I also have White MC climbing, Niles, and Mrs. Dudley Cross. I don't understand how Maman Cochet is not as good as it gets. They are all beautiful.

OMG! I've been tempted by Maman Cochet for years,but thought I'd definitely decided against it when Nik and someone else said that it constantly balled. But then I see Sheila's pictures, and want it all over again.

I have the climbing MC and the White climber MC. They both do well here even with the humidity. I live near a river and the ocean plus it can rain almost every day in the summer with high temps in upper 90's and even once in a while 100F. So definitely black spot heaven.

Rubens is a dream here. I got it from a FL rose nursery (ARFR) and it definitely loves Florida.

Rosette de Lizzy also is great.

I did have Marie van Houtte, which I bought because, I thought it kinda had that 'White Maman Cochet look' going on lol. It was doing great until I put her in the ground and something ate the roots, grrr. I'm gonna try that one again.

~Sjn

Sjn, it's a mystery to me.... I would have thought our climates were fairly similar, but Maman Cochet never opened here, and I have the same trouble with any of the petal-packed Teas, like William R Smith and Rhodologue Jules Graveraux. Actually WRS opens, but often browns, as does Etoile de Lyon. Maybe your higher heat helps, despite the humidity and rain. I have Marie van Houtte. She has made a huge shrub (6' high and 12' across), in around 6 years. The blooms are pretty, but not sumptuous, but she doesn't ball ever, and gives lots of generous flushes.

I have Mrs Dudley Cross. She doesn't mildew, that I've ever noticed, but she is in an airy spot. Like Ingrid's, the blooms mainly face the ground. Though when I had her in another garden, this didn't happen, but maybe the blooms weren't as large? It was a long time ago.

My Rosette Delizy balls too, but not unforgivably so.

It's good to hear Rubens is doing so well for you. I got one this year, and love its creamy pink colour. And, so far, it is trouble free.

I think you are right that it is cool temps plus humidity that causes the balling. If it is very early spring when we are still very cool and it rains, I can get some balling on roses. Usually our late fall, winters and early spring are kinda dry. We have our rainy season in the summer.

You guys are tempting me to try Mrs Dudley Cross. I wonder how she would perform here..

" . . . but often browns, as does Etoile de Lyon."

*** Here's a tip on 'Etoile de Lyon.'

If blooms seem to brown or ball, try peeling off the outer petals. THOSE may have browned, and the bloom seemingly "balled", but if the outer petals are removed, the bloom will often open beautifully.

Not just for that rose, but most others, too.

But most-especially THAT one, Kim, It had that happen even when roses around it were doing fine. But pulling those outer petals off it was key.

Oh, I believe you that one required it more than others. That is one reason I have never liked that rose. There are plenty of other decent yellows that don't have that issue. But, for other roses whose guard petals brown and seal over, peeling them off often helps the bloom to finish opening.

This is what Etoile de Lyon often looks like in my garden

Trish, that is truly awful. I'm afraid that rose would not last long in my garden, but then again I have a terrible track record of discarding roses too soon. What a shame that there are roses like RJG that ball for you. On the plus side, you aren't living in a rain-starved desert climate that is getting worse every year.