Should I? Commercial Espresso Machine.
John Liu
5 years ago
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5 years agolast modified: 5 years agoJohn Liu
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Michael, I need espresso lessons!
Comments (11)Beany coulda handled this but after laughing during my innaguration as King of the Bean she wouldn't dare... Jessy rattled at the doors of my cage to get me to read your question. I started a new job and have been buried with new challenges for a month and barely have time to swing by right now. Claire, I'm not familiar with that particular machine but the theory of getting a good pour is the same. The results will definitely be inhibited by the linitations of a machine, the blend, quality, and freshness of the bean, and ultimately by your technique. I have a machine that cost more than braces for my niece and I still manage to get lousy shots way more often than I wish. Here's a copy and paste of something I wrote on the Appliance forum last year: ************************************************* A little bit of knowledge should help sort out some of the points being expressed here. Great coffee comes from understanding and by then chasing down the methods and hardware that can make it happen. Warning! This is a slippery slope, in that nothing culinary on earth is as finicky, and so subject to tiny mistakes as is coffee. Once you start up this path, perfect bean juice obsession can lead you into a kind of pergatory... an insanity that can be very expensive. Of this I can speak with much clarity and assurance. 1. Beans need to be fresh. Once roasted they can keep 10 days, maybe squeaking up to 14 days, but no longer than that. Air and moisture is coffee's natural predator so air tight storage and no freezers because of the condensation (moisture). Once ground, flavor loss begins immediately, and the difference between a great drink and so so, or down-right bad, is a matter of minutes. So you want fresh beans and a grinder. Hard core espresso afficiandos need a burr grinder, hardest core drinkers, a conical burr grinder, average non espresso coffee drinkers will do ok with a 20 dollar blade grinder. The degree of the grind (fine to course)must be matched with the style or method of preperation. 2. Ultimate espresso requires the correct water temperature to extract the desired flavor compounds (over 600 different identified compounds- more than fine wine). The temperature needs to remain stable throughout the entire extraction process- 202-205 farenheit, depending on the bean and the degree of roasting. 3.Correct water pressure is required to push the water through the grinds and at a pace slow enough to dissolve the flavors, but fast enough so as not to over extract the bitter aspirin-like flavors of caffeine. The target is 22 to 28 seconds depending on the bean, the roast, and the equipment. Department store priced units are typically unable to fufill this pressure requirement and always unable to sustain the temperature requirements stated above. 4. Points 1-3 is what drives the obsessed-for-espresso-perfection junkie to financial insanity. Java Man's advice at this point becomes paramount; if you're satisfied with what your equipment can produce, if you've never had a store bought espresso that you didn't like,then don't worry about the ramblings of a coffee lunatic. BUT, don't spend money on equipment if you haven't had a chance to taste the results first. If you like it, go for it and don't look back. Enjoy your freedom and your life. I got into this a long time ago, over 30 years, and for me it's too late; I know too much. I spent 6000 on a machine for my home and still strive for better results (remember what I said about insanity). For years, coffee had the influence of the stock market much like oil today. It is still a powerful force in the world. "What coffee brewer should I buy" is not a simple question to answer. Go forth and achieve great bean juice! ************************************************** So, with that said Claire, make the best of the machine that you have. Your desire for a burr grinder is more important than you know. If the goal is to dissolve the chemistry outof the ground bean by using water as a solvent, it's important that you offer the water the very best opportunity to do it's job. A typical grinder chops up the beans in to all different sizes, from powder to chunks. If the best of the flavor is extacted in about 25 seconds of very hot water, you can see that a chunk won't give up the stuff while powder will give up too much. Anyway, I'm drifting here... Figure out what works for your machine. Pay attention to the grind size, the water temp, the amount of pressure packing the grounds into the porta filter; try to be exactly the same in your technique; particularly how much goes into the filter, how hard you tamp, and shoot for 20 to 25 seconds to get about 3/4 of an ounce in each shot glass (1 1/2 oz total). The very best baristas try not to change anything but the grind coarseness. If the the volume of grinds, tamp pressure, and time remain constant, the only variable to change is the grind. One more scientific thought; coffee is very hydroscopic; if moisture is in the air, coffee absorbs it, if the air is dry it pulls moisture from the coffee. That's why we adjust the grinder. On a typical Seattle spring day, from cold mornings to warm afternoon to cool evening, in the shop we might have adjusted the grinder 20 or more times a day. At home we don't change it nearly as much but again, if anything changes, it should be the coarsness of the bean. Had enough? One more thing. Coffee expands when water hits the packed filter so be sure not to overfill it. Test that by looking at the spent "puck" after pouring a shot. If you have a big impression from the screen screw (unless you don't have a removable screen)pack a tiny bit less in. Pay attention to every shot, every detail, every time and you will get it. In many years of professional and personal culinary pursuits, I've not found anything as finicky as coffee. Whew, I need a coffee! michaelp Here is a link that might be useful: the goal......See MoreBuilt In Coffee/Espresso Machine
Comments (11)hmg58: in that price range you'll be looking at heat exchange (HX) or double boiler machines with an E61 group. Both HX and double boiler designs allow you to steam milk immediately after pulling a shot instead of waiting for the machine to heat up to steam mode. The E61 group provides a preinfusion stage where the machine's pressure builds up slowly, allowing the coffee grounds to swell before being subjected to the full 9 bars of pressure. This avoids the common problem of 'channeling' where the sudden high pressure carves a channel through the grounds instead of flowing through the coffee uniformly. To get good results from any of these machines you should budget $500 or so for a top quality burr grinder such as a Mazzer or Macap. There are many good machines at this level -- I would check out the offerings from wholelattelove.com, chriscoffee.com, and 1st-line.com. The web sites coffeegeek.com and home-barista.com are great sources of information and advice. As for myself, I use a fully manual lever machine (the Gaggia Factory). I'm assuming that's too much of a stretch for anyone contemplating a superauto to consider, but I will say that for anyone who, like me, rarely makes more than 2 or 3 shots a day, I think a lever machine makes a lot of sense....See MoreMy Espresso Machine Died! Anyone have a Rancilio Silvia?
Comments (19)I don't have one -- we went with a Solis instead because the Silvia was tempermental about the grind. We hadn't had the experience of a better grinder and using one of those little grinders would make it nearly impossible to get a consistently good result. We bought a better grinder anyway. After years, we upgraded to a Jura super automatic that we bought refurbished and then bought another to get the "stainless" (also refurbished -- DH took the black one to his office) before they disappeared completely. I'm kind of attached to that movable brew head that allows me to steam and brew directly into a tall mug and I saw recently that they put in on a newer model. :) What I did want to suggest though is to look at the models and reviews on Whole Latte Love and Aabree Coffee (now under common ownership, I am told), then call them if you want more info. All three of my machines were bought through them and they were very helpful with the purchases and any questions afterwards. They walked us through how we intended to use the machine, for what kind of drinks, how often and our needs (figuring out the coffee geek factor). They never steered me wrong. Their tech even walked me through a solder repair on the Solis so that I didn't have to send it in and be without it for a couple of weeks. A trip to the hardware store and 30 minutes had my machine running the next day. You just don't get service like that most places. If brewing and steaming simultaneously is important to you, you will want dual pumps as well as dual boilers. Dual boilers with a single pump will allow you to go from one to the other without waiting for proper temperature to be reached, but not necessarily do both at the same time. BTW, for anyone shopping, buying one of these machines will take a larger initial cash layout, but if you don't buy less and keep upgrading, these machines can wind up costing you no more than a standard coffee maker that seems to need replacing about once a year. We also figured that if DH went to Starbucks everyday to get shots of espresso, the machine would pay for itself between one and two years and all my cappuccinos would be free. Not bad when we've had the black Jura ten years or more and haven't bought a regular coffee maker in 12-15 years....See MoreCabinet height over espresso machine ?
Comments (7)Thanks Bob, I may do that. I use to go on CoffeeGeek a bit but it kind of dwindled, though seems to have recently picked up a bit. Kind of comes down to getting tired of having to create too many logins on too many different websites that even with a good password manager like onepassword gets to be kind of a PITA and then this is topped by getting old and not always being able to remember what question I posted on which forum when. :-) Sophie, as a general rule or starting place yes but as a hard rule no. That's a bit like the 'kitchen triangle' that resulted (and still does) in a lot of bad kitchen designs by inexperienced, uncreative, and not so intelligent designers. This is a good case in point, most good espresso machines will require more than 18" height between countertop and upper cabinets. In this case likely 22-24". A friend did his 30". Another friend did 21" above the counter and 10" deep so that she could have her knives and stuff more easily accessible on the wall. Greater countertop to upper height (or shallower uppers or no uppers) can also greatly increase the openness of a kitchen and make it more airy and pleasant. We have a 5" deep cabinet that not only imposes less on the space and helps to open it up a bit but is extremely convenient as every can or bag of chocolate chips is in front....See Moredcarch7 d c f l a s h 7 @ y a h o o . c o m
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