The grass type that has the best chance of growing there is fine fescue. If you could find a blend of 1. Creeping Red, 2. Hard Fescue, and 3. Chewings fescue, that would give you best chance of growing grass in your sunlight challenged areas. Bill Hill

There is good info in all these messages, but I can see where it might be getting confusing. Don't know if this will help but I'll give it another shot. If you do not have a brick making plant within 2 miles of your place, then please do a jar test. Voice of experience again here. When people do the jar test, more often than not they come away understanding they do not have clay but something else. We happen to have a brick making facility about 50 miles from us, but that clay is an outcropping. There is no clay around here for hundreds of miles - except that one spot. We have soils around that act like clay because they have too much magnesium (Epsom salt) in them. Jerry Baker was a really nice guy, but if everyone did what he suggested, half the people would have dead grass and half the people would be happy. I believe you are verging on the half with dead grass. His potions and sprays work better on shrubs, in my opinion, than on lawns. Lawns are very heavy nitrogen feeders. His system does not focus on that. It turns out lawns feed best when the soil chemistry and the soil biology are at their best. Soil chemistry can only be improved after a good soil test which shows you the amounts of P and K (N is always deficient), pH, and the levels of the micronutrient chemicals in the soil. The micros will tell you why your soil acts like clay. It could be you need Epsom salts, but Jerry Baker could not possibly know whether you do or not. If you already have too much magnesium, then Epsom salt will drag your soil into a much worse condition. And too much magnesium mimics a hard clay soil. The micronutrients from the test will also tell you what needs to be improved in YOUR soil. You can usually find those micronutrients on eBay or at the grocery store. Believe it or not the beer, ammonia, soap and sugar is the best thing you've done so far. Do that again and you won't have to aerate. You have two different kinds of grasses in your lawn. You have the fescues, which grow in clumps, and you have something that is a spreading type of grass. Kentucky bluegrass is one that spreads as is creeping bentgrass. Many people mix fescue and KBG because they both take similar care. Bentgrass, on the other hand, takes different care so it is usually considered a weed in a fescue lawn. I am thinking bentgrass might be what is causing your issues. Why? Because KBG would be up tall by now. Bentgrass grows low. Your best bet in determining your grasses is to take samples to a local nursery familiar with the different types. This would NOT be Home Depot, Lowe's, or Wal-Mart. Look for a nursery that has been in business for 30 years or so. The fact that the dog pee spots are doing much better is a very strong indicator (a dead giveaway) that your soil is weak on nitrogen. It could be you fertilized before your roots were ready to take up the nitrogen in the spring and it has since washed away with rainfall and all the irrigation you're using. I'm going to suggest you continue to thank and admire Jerry Baker for bringing you closer to your garden, but for lawns, I'm going to give you the wisdom of my years and years on this forum. Water deeply and infrequently. Deeply means at least an hour in every zone, all at once. Infrequently means monthly during the cool months and no more than weekly during the hottest part of summer. If your grass looks dry before the month/week is up, water longer next time. Deep watering grows deep, drought resistant roots. Infrequent watering allows the top layer of soil to dry completely which kills off many shallow rooted weeds. Mulch mow at the highest setting on your mower. Most grasses are the most dense when mowed tall. Bermuda, centipede, and bent grasses are the most dense when mowed at the lowest setting on your mower. Dense grass shades out weeds and uses less water when tall. Dense grass feeds the deep roots you're developing in 1 above. Fertilize regularly. I fertilize 4 times per year using organic fertilizer. Which fertilizer you use is much less important than numbers 1 and 2 above. When I came to GardenWeb I was not on board with these three key elements of lawn care. I learned them here and share them with people who are not likely to hang out here for 10 years. I like organic fertilizer for a couple reasons. First is it really works. For unknown reasons my lawn stopped responding to chemical fertilizers after several years. Organics worked right away. Second reason I like them is I can fertilize with organics all summer long without fear of burning the grass. It just gets better. Third reason is it is very hard to make a mistake with organics. Using too little is about the only mistake. Using too much is only better for the lawn. Fourth reason is my garage no longer smells like chemicals. Fifth, it is probably much better for my dog than chemicals. Proof of that seems to be growing but I'm not expert enough to give a good argument. If you are interested in learning about the modern approach to organic fertilizer, go to the Organic Gardening forum and find the FAQ. The Organic Lawn Care FAQ is at the bottom. It was compiled from questions asked/answered here and on other forums.

"How else would they know so much about all these different brands and manufacturers to speak so "expertly" on such a wide variety of them?" Oh that's easy. They're interested in garden and lawn tractors and tend to read up on everything they can on the subject, even though they don't own a particular brand and model. As Justalurker said, ral knowledge comed from actual ownership. There are a few on this forum who have owned most every brand in existence, but I think most of us are repeating what we have read from actual owners. I, for one, like to read up on the top-of-the-line GT's because they represent the best you can buy, and I like to see how well they handle different attachments, especially the ground engaging type. And what features they offer like power steering, locking diff, diesel power, hydraulically actuated deck lift and ancillary equipment (attachments). I have perused many different brand-dedicated forums to acquire this info...it's like a hobby that doesn't cost anything (until you actually buy something that is). However, I have since pretty much gone to the "dark side" and will sing the praises of the ZTR to anyone who will listen, now that I own one and see how efficient (and fun) they truly are. However, I won't try to ram them down anyone's throat....especially on a "Lawn and Garden Tractor" forum:) I must say though it is some members on this forum that have helped me to "see the light"...LOL! I have a lawn tractor but it just sits there like an old Farmall tractor put out to pasture while I go whizzing around on my ZTR ;) I have a Japanese compact tractor to handle the tiller work, and so I will never go back to lawn or garden tractor to cut grass...and that's from actual experience.....I would be tempted to pick up a nice JD 445 GT at the right price though :)

I was told recently that burning when the stilt grass is beginning to emerge in the late spring works and usually does not kill the natives. I plan on trying this at the lake's edge because I cannot use any chemicals that are not aquatic approved...and I don't want to use anything that is a general herbicide;I have many plants that I want near the water. One of my friends has used the corn-based pre-emergent, and it works some, according to her, but it needs to be used many years in a row to have any impact...and it is not cheap.