New Houzz discussion forum code of conduct

deegw

This was posted last night in an older thread. I thought it deserved a separate thread.

Emily H(9)

Hi all, Just popping by after checking out some flagged comments in this thread. We've posted some rules in a format we hope might be more easily understood. They are derived from our Terms of Use and Acceptable Use Policy (that all members agree to upon signing up)

Please familiarize yourself with them. And feel free to share with your friends.

https://help.houzz.com/s/article/Houzz-Discussions-Code-of-Conduct?language=en_US


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Hello and welcome to the Houzz discussion forum! All members of the Houzz community agree to and are bound by our Terms of Use. In order to ensure our discussion forum is a welcoming, open, and inclusive place for all of our community members, we do have some Houzz rules that we ask you to follow. These rules are derived from our Terms of Use and Acceptable Use Policy and are specific to the discussion forum on Houzz. We may update them from time to time, so please check back regularly to understand your responsibilities in using the Houzz discussion forum.

When electing to participate in the discussion forum on Houzz, please abide by the following rules:

  • Refer to people by their chosen display name.
  • Refrain from posting threads about individual users.
  • Treat other members of the community with kindness. Do not post any name-calling, personal attacks, or targeted harassment of other members of the community - including but not limited to referring to other members as bots or trolls, impersonating other users, or attempting to remove all of their content through flagging if it does not, in and of itself, violate our terms.
  • Do not screenshot and repost content you feel is against the Terms of Use or content that has been removed from the site.
  • Do not post vulgar or profane content, in text or in photographic form. Masked profanity is still considered profanity, and quoting someone else’s language that is profane or vulgar still counts as profane or vulgar posting from your account.
  • Do not post personal information about other members of the community.
  • Do not post the same content multiple times. That is considered spamming and disruptive. Please don’t do it.
  • Do not post links to illegal content.

Because this is an open community, you may encounter members of different backgrounds, ideologies, and points of view. You do not need to agree with them, but please abide by these rules in your interactions with them. Posts in violation of our Terms of Use, Acceptable Use Policy or of this Code of Conduct may be removed without warning. Accounts not in accordance with these rules may be deactivated with or without warning.

Flagging is available for every post and for comment. You may use this function to alert our team to content that should be reviewed for violations. You may also always reach out to our team for help through help.houzz.com. Please note that to protect the privacy of our community members, the Houzz team is not at liberty to discuss the account status or the administrative actions performed on any account with anyone but the account holder.

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deegw

Here is a link to the thread with the original post.

https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/5528502/3-1-2-days-to-go#23199563

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maifleur01

This one I find laughable because Emily told me that referring to someone in a post was disrespectful which is why many times I do not use a name and only mention a post. "Refer to people by their chosen display name."

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rob333 (zone 7a)

As long as they stand behind it for EVERYONE in an unbiased way, I'm happy.

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Sleeping Giant

Good idea for a thread, d_gw. Hopefully, Emily will pop in here to answer any questions from us, or clear up any confusion/"gray areas" that people might see in the rules.

I have a couple of questions for Emily (or any other moderator, I guess), particularly about "flagging."

1. Is there a certain limit/number of "inappropriate or abusive" posts (that are removed by moderators) that the same poster can "get away with," so to speak? Is there anything in place, like a "3 strikes and you're out" rule? Or is it completely on a case by case basis, up to a moderator's discretion? I guess what I'm trying to ask is, are there consequences/penalties for repeated inappropriate posts by the same person, BESIDES the post(s) being permanently deleted/removed?

ETA: I've seen multiple posts from one (generic "one") poster be permanently removed, "probably" (speculating here) for inappropriate content, unless the poster thought twice and removed it themselves. Yet, "that poster" (again, generic) is still here.

2. (sort of a "flip side of that ^ coin") "How" and/or "are" people reprimanded for "abusing" the flag button, incessantly, when it's not warranted?

3. I also thought (possibly incorrectly) that it was "frowned upon" to make accusations about people deleting their own posts, although I don't see anything about that in the TOS. Can you please clarify?

Thank you for your time.

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foodonastump

PFFFFT might as well scrap HT right now as there are really few threads with none of that.

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deegw

I think it is interesting to keep in mind that these rules are for all the forums. Some of the other forums get contentious and snarky but not to the same level as HT.

For instance, to me, spam in HT is a totally different animal than spam in Kitchens. And I don't think the bickering about flagging happens in other forums.

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Kathy

Hot Topics deserves its own site.

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Mimou-GW

I wonder if the powers that be have any way to determine if a user is, in fact, a bot?

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Annie Deighnaugh

d-gw, thanks for reposting.

The one I always struggle with is the profanity where even if you mask it, it's considered profanity...that's hard not to do when you are quoting someone. I guess we could always use the old [expletive deleted] from the nixon era. Though that part of the rules has been in place and no one has complained about the masked phrases...I think there has been some pushback on the unmasked ones.

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mayflowers

including but not limited to referring to other members as bots or trolls, impersonating other users,

What if users impersonate themselves, ie having more than one account and posting as different personalities? I swear sometimes it seems they post in one thread as two people.

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CindyMac(8b)

Ditto on the users with multiple accounts.

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ann_t

Too bad there wasn't a different set of rules for HT. Or at least a relaxed set. After all it is Hot Topics. What is that saying? " If you can't stand the heat stay out of the kitchen?"


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Néarbauti

Woo hoo!

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mayflowers

Ditto on the users with multiple accounts.

We have those?

Yes, we have them near, far, and yonder. They are making a mockery of this forum.

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rob333 (zone 7a)

I swear sometimes it seems they post in one thread as two people.

I agree. I laughed super hard the other day when I swear there where two account names posting back and forth (and no one else, so it showed itself to be a thread popping up to the top, to be kept at the top, and no other good reason. Content sure wasn't why), and i thought, "This sounds like someone talking to themselves. Does no one else see it?" Obviously, they do!

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deegw

This was part of the other thread. Emily posted a clarification about spamming and memes.

Emily H(9)

Memes are not banned. Spamming memes (or anything else) that are not relevant is banned - also anything with profane or vulgar content would not be allowed, so if a meme contained that, that would also be an issue

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CindyMac(8b)

"This sounds like someone talking to themselves. Does no one else see it?" Obviously, they do!

Rob, I've witnessed it a number of times.


Anyone reading this thread is witnessing it first hand.

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mayflowers

I think spamming memes means posting the same meme across multiple threads one after another. I don't think it means reposting your favorite meme on occasion.

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Néarbauti

Thank you Emily. Having a Code of Conduct spelled out is going to be very helpful in curbing inappropriate behavior and abuse. I wholeheartedly agree with the rules.

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cattyles

I don’t think it makes a lick of difference. Without active moderation - not just looking at flagged content out of context - there will not be any enforcement.

”Treat other members of the community with kindness.”


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mudhouse

mayflowers: I think spamming memes means posting the same meme across multiple threads one after another. I don't think it means reposting your favorite meme on occasion.

Thanks for this, mayflowers. That's my take, too.

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mayflowers

Without active moderation - not just looking at flagged content out of context - there will not be any enforcement.

Context is important for the moderators to understand why something's been flagged. That's why I suggested a comment box. On my NextDoor website, there is a comment box asking why you're reporting a post.

On HT, we've had attempts by a small group of near, far, and yonder posters to post white supremacist imagery that moderators probably don't recognize as such because it's their new thing. If I flag it, mods probably wonder why. I think the only thing we can do is post why it's a white supremacist image and then flag.

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katrina_ellen

Its good to have the rules posted, so we will know when they are being broken. LOL.

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Annie Deighnaugh

I too have issues with people who hide behind multiple identities. If you have enough guts to post in hot topics, you should have enough guts to stand by your words. I suspect the multiples are also part and parcel of the post/thread deletion issue.

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mudhouse

On HT, we've had attempts by a small group of near, far, and yonder posters to post white supremacist imagery that moderators probably don't recognize as such because it's their new thing.

Or, it could be that your interpretation of some images represent your viewpoint, but not the viewpoint of others...that's the problem.

Some images and gestures have been designated (by a group of posters) as controversial or unacceptable, in an attempt to outlaw their general usage, here and everywhere. Without agreement on the meaning of the image or gesture, it can be little more than one group trying to censor another. That's the problem. In my view.

But I agree that having a way to explain why we're flagging something would be useful.

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ojo_sigo

I have never felt this forum was moderated by its participant's wishes as the moderation is often as intrusive as those who are only here to disrupt. For instance, without the information, Houzz has we could probably pinpoint the posters with multiple names, especially as their MO is transparent. Nothing is done about this blatant abuse yet there are other posters with a good track record that get banned for one misdeed, Labrea being a case in point.

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Néarbauti

I agree mudhouse. Labeling memes you don't like as "white supremacy" and speech you don't agree with as "hate speech" is just a way of stifling the ability of the other side to express themselves. The rules are clear - if it's vulgar or profane it's no good. If you're just flogging something because it offends you personally, that's breaking the rules.

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mayflowers

There is imagery being brought here from white supremacists websites. I don't mean things like the okay sign.

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mudhouse

Maybe a new requirement of posting in Hot Topics should be an annual $50 contribution to a GoFundMe page for Houzz moderators, to be used for vacation resorts, or the alcoholic beverages of their choice.


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mudhouse

There is imagery being brought here from white supremacists websites. I don't mean things like the okay sign.

Mayflowers, I haven't seen it, and I also have a strong suspicion that if we did a thread called "Let's define white supremacist websites" we wouldn't all agree on that either. Some websites sites, like some individuals, are inaccurately labeled with that term, for the same end of censorship.

(By the way, there's no way I'm suggesting that thread should happen.)

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Néarbauti

I don't see what the problem is with the multiple users. Emily said it's ok. I have a couple of accounts I use on various devices, and I've made no effort to hide it's the same person - mayflowers already has it figured out.

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mayflowers

Let's categorize it as a violation of the rule to treat other posters with kindness then. That should really read respect instead of kindness. If you are posting images from white supremacist websites, you are not treating other posters with respect because you are trying to sneak that imagery onto the forum.

If you want to start a thread about the imagery as a discussion topic, I'll be glad to participate, but I am not going to normalize its use on HT.

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mudhouse

I think there are people on both sides of the political fence here in HT with multiple user names. It doesn't bother me. I just read the comment, and if I want to respond, I use the name at the top of the comment.

And to be honest, I've seen people use more than one user name in other forums in GW/Houzz too, over the years, although not very often. It looks like a lot of work to keep up with, to me, but if somebody wants to do it, personally I don't care.

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deegw

Many HAVE tried to hide behind a reincarnated new identity or multiple identities. There have been multiple instances of disingenuous denial.

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mayflowers

Emily said it's okay if someone leaves the forum, voluntarily or by Houzz decision, to return under a new name. We've never addressed the posting under multiple accounts because it's a new issue.

If you want to identify yourself as being the same person as another account, I have no problem. I just want to know who I'm talking to.

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Joaniepoanie

The daily name-changing Sybil problem needs to be addressed by the moderators. This is nothing but petty game-playing and disruptive, as is the constant deleting and flagging . It's clearly a planned activity by a group of posters since it started en masse at the same time. Transparent and not clever.

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rob333 (zone 7a)

When someone is posting as Thor or God, it's an obvious thumb to the idiocy of multiple screen names. When someone posts with multiple names to zhush up (read wallpapering the forum) or come back when banned, it's an obvious thumbing to respect and rules.

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CindyMac(8b)

We've never addressed the posting under multiple accounts because it's a new issue.


It's not a new issue. It's been ongoing for the past two years. Many of us have complained to Houzz about it. It has gotten much worse this year.

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dirtygert(5-NY)

Mayflowers: "If you want to identify yourself as being the same person as another account, I have no problem. I just want to know who I'm talking to."

Amen to that, mayflowers, that's exactly how I feel about it. I don't like to be duped --- by anybody or anything.

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Néarbauti

We've never addressed the posting under multiple accounts because it's a new issue.

Actually, Emily did address is. She said people post under multiple usernames for a variety for reasons and she's ok with it.

If you are posting images from white supremacist websites, you are not
treating other posters with respect because you are trying to sneak that
imagery on to the forum.

That again is an issue of being personally offended, under the guise not being "treated with respect". You can fit pretty much anything under that category. Say something bad about Republicans? I feel like I'm not being treated with respect, poof.

Calling other posters "Sybil" is definitely not treating them with respect.

Bottom line, I think, is live and let live. If it's not vulgar or profane, it goes. If you don't like it, address it respectfully it in a posting and move on.

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mayflowers

Cindy, I think you're referring to leaving the forum and coming back under a new name. I mean posting under multiple accounts at once. Near/Far/Yonderbauti just confessed that he does it. I don't see a reason why he can't log into one account or why it's done secretively, so I assume it's done to disrupt.


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marquest(PA zone 6)

I thought when Emily said there were changes coming that said to me software update. There is software out there that could stop the name thing if they really wanted to fix that issue. I moderated a forum that even if they used another computer there was a way of detecting it was someone we had banned. A couple of times there were mistake but not often.


With all the social media on the hot seat these days at some point Houzz is going to have to do something.

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Lars/J. Robert Scott(Z10B)

I have two accounts, but that was no fault of my own. When I joined Houzz for professional use, I already had a Gardenweb account, which was a separate site. When Houzz took over Gardenweb, I ended up with two accounts - one (J. Robert Scott) that I use at work as a design professional and the other one that I use only at home. I'm not trying to be two different people, although I've been asked if there are two Lars's, and there are not. I'm sure this has happened to other people as well.

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deegw

Hiding behind different identities to disrupt and mislead is definitely not treating other posters with respect.

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Sleeping Giant

"If it's not vulgar or profane, it goes. If you don't like it, address it respectfully it in a posting and move on."

I agree, but I'd bet that that's where people start "abusing" the flag button, and I was asking (above ^) if there are consequences for that.

How do we get Emily here, to this thread, anyway? Does someone have to flag a post or something?

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mudhouse

If we all really needed to know who we're talking to, would we be posting on a forum with something other than our real names? Most people at Houzz don't do that.

I do understand in a smallish forum like this one, we do get to "know" each other, over time, and that sometimes gives us helpful context if we've learned something about each other's general background. I get that. Sometimes it helps.

But almost anytime you're posting on the internet, unless it's a platform like Facebook that requires (I think?) your real name, we don't really truly know who we are talking to.

And we discuss many topics here that absolutely don't require us to "know" the other person, in order to have an intelligent conversation about it. (Don't we?) People all over the internet talk in huge forums, and they have successful exchanges without knowing who the other guy is.

I'm really not as focused on this subject as I'm making it sound - I really don't care much - but I wanted to type out some things I've been thinking about multiple user names, since it's now an issue here.




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CindyMac(8b)

Mayflowers, no, I'm referring to someone who has had upwards of 16 accounts ... many used simultaneously.

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Néarbauti

Accusing other posters of trying to disrupt and mislead is definitely not treating them with respect.

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CindyMac(8b)

There's zero respect for someone who comes here to disrupt. It's unfair to the rest of us that it's even allowed.

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dirtygert(5-NY)

We're, perhaps, expecting those who like to multi-post to give us a reasonable explanation of why they do it. Other than the expected response of "Just because I can" or "It's not against the rules".

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dragonflywings42

Referring to Annie's comment about profanity and Emily's post ... so how does anyone know what the moderators consider profanity? I've seen many instances where folks use a misspelled word, so they can use a very mild word to indicate displeasure, that starts with c and ends with p. Is that profanity? In the USA? Really? In order not to be censored, I'd like to see a list of words that are not allowed here. Where is George Carlin when you need him?

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chase_gw

I don't care if people have multiple accounts...not my concern. However, multiple usernames being used on a single forum, oft times in the same thread, irritates the heck out of me.

I can't imagine any good reason to do that.. On the same forum, on the same thread? Why? In my view it is a game meant to disrupt and to taunt. I also can't imagine any good reason to hide the fact one is using multiple ID's unless of course it is with the purpose to deceive.

I accept that it their right to do it and that it doesn't violate the rules so my choice is to totally ignore all the comments of people I believe to be deliberately using multiple ID's......I'm not here to play silly games.

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Néarbauti

There's zero respect for someone who comes here to disrupt.

Cindy, I believe your post runs afoul of the Houzz Code of Conduct.

Do not post any name-calling, personal attacks, or targeted harassment
of other members of the community - including but not limited to
referring to other members as bots or trolls

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CindyMac(8b)

So you're saying I should respect those who come here to disrupt?


Btw, I see you're a new member with a grand total of 11 comments; 7 are on this thread.

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ann_t

Cindy did not mention names and it was a general comment. I don't think anyone here needs to keep pointing out the Code of Conduct. It is available for everyone to read and members should be responsible for their own behaviour.

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Néarbauti

Cindy, the Code of Conduct says :"Do not post any name-calling, personal attacks, or targeted harassment of other members of the community - including but not limited to referring to other members as bots or trolls".

Accusing other members of coming here to disrupt runs afoul of that rule.

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rob333 (zone 7a)

Cindy's post is in no way afoul of anything. But calling her out is. You didn't like it, but it wasn't picking on a specific person.

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CindyMac(8b)

That's 8 and I didn't do any of those things.

So Nearbauti, what brings you to Hot Topics?

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dirtygert(5-NY)

There's zero respect for someone who comes here to disrupt. I consider this a true statement and definitely should/would not run afoul of the Code of Conduct. If Cindy's statement offends anyone here (or Houzz) --- we might as well find something else to do with our time. F.Y.I. --- I agree: anyone exhibiting behavior here only meant to disrupt deserves no respect. I also find it curious that posters who seem to be the most disruptive seem also to be the most self-righteous and are very eager to point out others' "shortcomings" as far as posting here. Just from casual observance here (with no proof, just with a "feel" for it), I'd bet they are serial flaggers as well.

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olliesmom

CindyMac, how would you even know someone has 16 accounts?

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Néarbauti

So Nearbauti, what brings you to Hot Topics?

A web browser connected to the Internet.

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olliesmom

I don't see the Code of Conduct being that hard to follow. You guys are reading too much into it. More worried about trying to "catch" someone.

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heri_cles

umlaut jockey

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Emily H(9)

Hi all,

I'm glad you have taken a moment to review the policy we posted. Again, it is from our existing Terms and Acceptable Use policies that everyone agrees to when they sign up for an account. Upthread someone mentioned that these rules are for all of the the topics - that's true! The expectation is that they will be followed in all parts of the discussion area on Houzz.

I am seeing a lot of questions from folks wondering if X, Y, or Z is against the rules - and X, Y, and Z happen to be things they see *other* people doing that they don't enjoy. If you think it is, flag it. But really, the thing to pay attention to here is your own posts. Follow those rules for your own posts.

We remove accounts here and elsewhere on the site every day. Accounts that are not in accordance with these rules are the ones that go.

You all have made valuable contributions to discussions here, and I've also seen a deterioration in the level of civility that is just not okay. And I don't mean - not okay for other less controversial topics - I mean not okay here.

If you haven't been aware, a great many of you have had some leeway granted with posts being removed instead of accounts while people here have been upset about different events in the world. That will not always be the case.

In simplest terms: Worry about your own posts following these rules, instead of concentrating on who else you feel doesn't belong here.

If you have things to say about a topic at hand, say those things.

Please don't spend your time attacking other posters, accusing them of one thing or another, bickering about past grievances, and carrying out long standing grudges against each other. That is not what this discussion topic is here for.

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matthias_lang

How odd that these rules were introduced buried in a thread which I could easily have missed. This site never seems to use "stickies" for administrative announcements.

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Emily H(9)

Hi Mathias - The rules were posted publicly along with the rest of our policies at help.houzz.com. I referenced them in a few places yesterday where people were active, but they are broadcast far and wide from our support pages.

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

I'm very curious about the people who seem to know beyond a doubt which users are posting under multiple names/accounts. Are they looking at IP addresses/locations? I used to know how to do that, but I haven't done so in years.

IMO, unless there is proof, putting such accusations out there makes the accusers look foolish.

And I'm not talking about the pointedly spoof accounts that have popped up here lately.

And do some people still not grasp how the internet works in the 21st century? Yes an image may have originated on a racist website, but it may also, with no attribution, be on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, or in an email a friend sent, just to name a few. Best to label & condemn it truthfully for what it is, than to rail against the imagined motives or character of the person who put it up, IMO.

P.S. Emily posted her comments while I was writing mine.

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foodonastump

Hi Emily - It’s fine to say only worry about ourselves but the point of coming here is not to talk to ourselves but to have a conversation.

Hi ‘bauti - I’m glad mayflowers has it figured out but could you please provide your list for the rest of us so that we’re clear? Of course I’m sure you’ll have no issue with this as you’re not trying to be deceptive, just logging in from multiple devices. Which most of us have figured out to do with a single account, by the way.

And yes, it does matter. Because someone may decide to engage, and post thoughts they’ve posted before, thinking that they’re talking to a newcomer. Making a point to someone they’ve attempted to discuss with many times before is a waste of time. People say “why don’t you just SOB” well yeah that’s fine as long as you know who you’re reading. So thank you in advance for your list.

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ojo_sigo

Bravo FOAS

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rob333 (zone 7a)

Emily, Is it carte blanche on the multiple accounts? Any and all reasons are ok? Just so we're clear.

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cattyles

I thinks it’s clear. My comment about just that, and divisive inflammatory rhetoric, is gone.

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ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9

Forgive me if this sounds rude, but most of the above is just nit-picking. I come here to express my ideas and to read what others have said about a topic. It is crystal clear which people never have anything of substance to say or continually post the same lies even though they've been corrected oh so many times. I don't bother to address them and I wonder why anyone does, but yes, they are corrected yet one more time. I suspect this back-and-forth is perceived by some as the grease that keeps the wheels turning so that those on the left aren't just talking to themselves. Yes, the whole thing has become more egregious and ugly since the advent of Trump, but does that surprise anyone? Hopefully the worst of it will disappear once the election is over, only to reappear when the 2020 election looms. We did not see similar scenarios in the past, but we now have the specter of Russian interference in elections, and a whole slew of people around Trump ending up in the slammer or well on their way there. Let's not pretend any of this is normal. We can, however, pretend that "problematic" posters do not exist and simply ignore them. It's faintly funny that some here simply cannot keep themselves from engaging with them, sometimes endlessly, but I'm not sure that this is adult behavior. That pretty well mimics what is happening in the political arena right now.

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woodnymph2_gw

I agree with FOAS and ojo and chase. I dislike the multiple user names, which seem endless. I feel it is an attempt to trick others and distract from topics of discussions. As some of you have said, I find it confusing, since I like to know to whom I am talking. What is going on here at HT now with multiple names is quite different than what went on in the past here( e.g. leaving HT once and then returning with a new name).

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purrmich _6

Problematic posts are almost every other. On every thread. There's little discussion happening because of it.

I dont think we're just here to state our opinion and move on, but we're forced to. Because of continual disruptions and interruptions.

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purrmich _6

Agree Woody and FOAS.

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texasranger2

I agree about the disgusting use multiple names. Its not only dishonest and manipulative, its like voting twice (or more) which is not allowed. Considering the legitimate complaining about feeling like a minority on HT which certain Trump followers do on a regular basis, it strikes me as a pathetically dishonest way of appearing to bolster up their numbers. It only makes them look worse in the eyes of those who cannot stand Trump.

Those kind of tricks makes them look worse and no one is fooled.

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Embothrium(Sunset Climate Zone 5, USDA Hardiness Zone 8)

Nobody HAS to be rude, here or elsewhere. As should be expected the site owners have included rules designed to make the content presented generally acceptable. This has been the case since the Spike days.

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woodnymph2_gw

Txrg, agree wholeheartedly.

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mayflowers

Texasranger, I've thought the same. They want quantity instead of quality. Follow the rules and we might get to quality.

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Emily H(9)

If a single person creates multiple accounts to talk to each other and disrupt the community that can be dealt with - this includes multiple accounts for the purpose of flagging content to disrupt the community.


If someone has an account and is removed for whatever reason or leaves on their own, but returns later and is able to participate in a productive way that is not against the terms, they may be able to do that.


These are two different issues.


But again, I see a lot of squabbling about other people and worrying about what other people might be able to get away with. If you see something that you think is a violation of the terms, flag it.


If you are here to have discussions about the topics at hand and not about each other, you are free to do that. Also, understand that a different opinion is not a terms of use violation.


Finally, no one else here has any information about who may have multiple accounts or what IP they come from, unless that person tells them. That information is not available to other users of the site.

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ohiomom

However, multiple usernames being used on a single forum, oft times in the same thread, irritates the heck out of me.

Well I was going to throw my two pence in, but TR beat me to the keyboard.

TexasRanger's words not mine: Considering the legitimate complaining about feeling like a minority on HT which certain Trump followers do on a regular basis, it strikes me as a pathetically dishonest way of appearing to bolster up their numbers. It only makes them look worse in the eyes of those who cannot stand Trump.

Those kind of tricks makes them look worse and no one is fooled.

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purrmich _6

I believe the complaints and problems are specifically in your first paragraph, Emily.

I've never given the second issue any thought.

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Embothrium(Sunset Climate Zone 5, USDA Hardiness Zone 8)

>I see a lot of squabbling about other people<

Yep: everyone following the long-present posted directive to not talk about each other would cut out a lot of it right there.

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olliesmom

The main thing I see as disruptive is the name calling and personal attacks on a poster. That is when it all goes downhill IMO.

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don_socal

The best way to fix things would be to sell Gardenweb to someone that will restore it to what it was. This company is not doing any thing good for the many thousands of members that were on GW before it was bought.

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Kathy

It strikes me as wrong when a poster keeps coming into a thread they have not participated with opinion or discussion just to scold someone for their comment as if they are a lurking moderator. That just stirs the pot more and causes the whole thread to go off the rails. If the people in the conversation aren’t objecting why does a lurking poster interject their scolding?

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Joaniepoanie

I see on another thread posts were flagged and deleted.

What is disruptive is posters who don't stand behind what they say and delete posts when they are challenged.

Also disruptive is constant flagging because you disagree with a post or poster.

Grow up people! ETA.....and you know who you are!

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mayflowers

Constant and habitual denigration of a group should qualify as name-calling even though it doesn't target one poster. Emily, you referred to them recently as "adjectives". Both sides do it. Some do it in just about every post.

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cattyles

Amen, don_socal!

mayflowers, that’s an important point that would be good to clarify. Does “stupid Libs” or “ugly Trump supporters” count as personal insult?

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Embothrium(Sunset Climate Zone 5, USDA Hardiness Zone 8)

>The main thing I see as disruptive is the name calling and personal attacks<

Name calling and personal attacks is more talking about each other instead of ideas. As the saying goes ideas are the best thing to talk about and other people the least worthwhile.

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chloe203


I'm increasingly uncomfortable with the censorship that is facilitated by the flagging function.

And I also feel there is some censorship going on with management.

The flagging issue reminds me of the tattle tale issue in grade school.

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mrskjun(9)

grapeleaves, if people would follow the rules and end the personal attacks and name calling, there would be no need for anyone to use the flag feature.

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cattyles

Grapeleaves, I think that is an almost expected outcome of the flag feature. It takes more mods and effort to actively moderate forums. The flag feature is passive on the part of Houzz.

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chloe203

It is more than that Mrs. How about if people would quit blanketing the board with posts that have no basis in fact.



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patriciae_gw(07)

I also like knowing something about the person I am answering. It informs my conversation. Having to decide if some new forum member name is someone I already know is going to hard if I am not allowed to ask politely. I am polite. People who wont identify themselves are too coy for my taste. it seems pointless in a discussion forum.

We have a lot of lurkers and it is for them that people who post debunked statements multiple times have to have their erroneous content pointed out one more time. Such stuff cant be left to be taken at face value.

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Néarbauti

I also like knowing something about the person I am answering. It informs my conversation.

If you discuss ideas instead of people, you don;t need to know anything about the person you are answering. Shouldn't matter. Address the idea being discussed, not the person posting it.

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Embothrium(Sunset Climate Zone 5, USDA Hardiness Zone 8)

>Such stuff cant be left to be taken at face value<

Well actually it can. Because if something is patently false that aspect remains evident whether another poster says it is malarkey or not.

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cattyles

Patriciae, My impression is that Houzz doesn’t understand those things about the long-term HT members and the obligation they feel to have facts and correct information on HT. Opinions are different than facts, as we say often. But Emily’s statement above seems to cover opinion and fact. It’s not the first time that facts have been addressed as a “a difference of opinion”.

What is ignored is condoned.

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rob333 (zone 7a)

If someone has an account and is removed for whatever reason or leaves
on their own, but returns later and is able to participate in a
productive way that is not against the terms, they may be able to do
that.


I guess that's the one where I'm confused. If they were removed for being disruptive and wallpaper the forum, and they come back disrupting/wallpapering, they shouldn't get to stay, I hope, but I don't see that being the case. I hope others, and I, are wrong about those who are coming back after their "page is not found" pops up. Forum moderation can ensure that.

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

One thing that I think contributes to the confusion is the disappearance of posts or threads with no explanation about why? When no reason is given, everybody starts guessing/speculating what the reason is. Next thing you know, a bunch of posters are off in their separate corners spinning their own private theories about what is going on.

As I try to monitor my own posts, it is not helpful for the post to simply disappear. I'm often as puzzled as anyone else is. Sometimes I wonder if that quote I included may have triggered something--and when I paraphrase the quote and try again, my post goes through and stays on the screen--but other times that word just appeared on someone else's post the day before and it is still there with no changes. So I'm left wondering if I truly identified the real problem or if it is something else I'm not aware of.

By not telling what the problem is, Houzz is assuming we already knew there was something questionable about our post and therefore are not surprised when the post disappears. However, I question that premise--because more times than not, I'm just guessing why the post was removed, or writing to inquire of Houzz why it was removed, or I just give up because that particular post wasn't that important to me.

No long or elaborate defense is needed from Houzz. Just a message back (publicly or privately) with some set explanatory categories such as "crude or vulgar language" or "personal attack" or "disruptive" or something like that would at least clue us in on what we are doing wrong.

All said with great respect-- : )

Kate

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Néarbauti

the obligation they feel to have facts and
correct information on HT.

Well, what you feel is fact and correct information, the next person may feel it's false incorrect information. This obligation "they" feel to make sure everything that gets posted conforms to THEIR world view is the source of all problems here on HT.



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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Good cartoon, Nearbauti.

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woodnymph2_gw

Agree totally with Kate. Often, innocuous posts I've made on this forum have disappeared. I'm never informed why. If I've offended (and I doubt I have), I would like to be told why and how. Seems to me that in the days of Spike, rules were much more clearly delineated. We got a few bad apples, but they did not stick around long. Wondering why one's posts are gone just adds to all the negativity here.

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cattyles

“Well, what you feel is fact and correct information, the next person may feel it's false incorrect information. This obligation "they" feel to make sure everything that gets posted conforms to THEIR world view is the source of all problems here on HT.”

—————————————————-

In a fact-based situation, that number would have a line under it to prevent confusion. As pictured, it is a good illustration of different perspectives. If there was a line, the number that was pictured would be a fact, not subject to perspective. That has nothing to do with either side’s “world view”.

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CindyMac(8b)

We can, however, pretend that "problematic" posters do not exist and simply ignore them.


Not when they monopolize threads.

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Good point, Cattyles.

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Néarbauti

If there was a line, the number that was pictured would be
a fact, not subject to perspective.

Well that depends on who draws the line doesn't it.

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Embothrium(Sunset Climate Zone 5, USDA Hardiness Zone 8)

"Nothing is provable" is something out of the contemporary right wing playbook.

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Facts can be verified. Points of view/opinions/perspectives can not.

That is the difference.

Kate

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mayflowers

Do people who derail a thread ever consider how unfair it is to the OP or are they too self-centered to care? I hardly ever post threads because invariably people come in and never read the article or the link but get into a big argument about something else. One time two long-time posters started arguing about something one of them posted ten years ago! Try as I might I could not get them back on topic.

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purrmich _6

I mistakenly said that the second issue of posters coming back after being deleted is not important. It is only important when Houzz does not follow thru. So, when a poster is removed for not adhering to the rules and does come back but continues not adhering to the rules - but, they are not then removed. That's when it becomes an issue.

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purrmich _6

I also have stopped posting threads. Certain posters take over without regard to the op. And then tell you it's their right to post what they want where they want.

It's not worth posting op's anymore.

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Embothrium(Sunset Climate Zone 5, USDA Hardiness Zone 8)

>Certain posters take over without regard to the op. And then tell you it's their right to post what they want where they want<

Sounds like the contemporary conservative mentality. "Everything starts with me, and is about me". Goes with having a malignant narcissist in the Oval Office, setting the tone.

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purrmich _6

Yes, Embo. That's why a few posters were taking over threads last night with complaints about the new rules. Or complaining they didn't understand them. And would be flagging entire threads because they didn't understand the rules.

So, there's that.

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CindyMac(8b)

So does it boil down to numbers for Houzz? The more "bodies" the better for your bottom line? Because it boggles the mind that an organization would willingly encourage multiple accounts.

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Emily H(9)

Cindy - no one is "encouraging" multiple accounts. People sometimes have different accounts for different reasons. If there is disruptive content, flag that content. Follow the rules for your own account too. The rules are actually pretty simple that way.


An account existing is not in and of itself a problem. If it is violating rules, then it becomes an issue.

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dirtygert(5-NY)

Emily, with all due respect, not saying "no" is the same as saying "yes".

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CindyMac(8b)

Ok, I'll bite, what would be the need for multiple accounts on Hot Topics?

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purrmich _6

How do we flag those posters who are here under multiple names? Aside from, "I just don't like it".

Flagging is inherently a problem because the flagged comment is not in context.

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Ziemia(6a)

About "name calling" --using derogatory terms to describe a group that likely includes me IS name calling. "Liberal" or "progressive" or Trump Fan" is not name calling. "Libbies", "leftists", "DemocRATS" is.

But, in the eyes of Houzz - what is name-calling?

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deegw

I think Emily mentioned in the other thread that troll and bot are not allowed.

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texasranger2

I know for a fact that in the not so distant past there was some back patting and hee-hawing about using multiple names just to be 'ornery' and to throw the "other side" off. I don't like it when people play games with other people like that. There are more intelligent ways, such as composing a legitimate argument backed up by research even if the source you use is not approved of by "the other side"---- its a lot less crazy making.

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chase_gw

TX I absolutely am certain that what you say goes on. There have been comments made here that one posters wouldn't know ( about handles being used) unless there was a back channel chat.

That is why I find it so irritating.....it's just plain juvenile and to do it and deliberately giggle about it tells me all I need to know about their character

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texasranger2

Exactly.

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heri_cles


As long as one can violate the rules on one account and open several others, multiple accounts are a problem.

Now that it so easy to get a VPN how can Houzz ban an IP address? Given the policy to allow new and multiple accounts, moderation will become a frustrating game of whack-a-möle.

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catkinZ8a


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CindyMac(8b)

That's inappropriate for this thread. We're not discussing politics here.

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ojo_sigo

The thing with the cartoon above is that it is illogical and relates to where some conversations go wrong here when assumptions are made.

Many polls make the same mistake.

What is the question these two angry guys are arguing?

If the question is "if you turn a number six around by 180 degrees it looks like a number nine," there is no argument, although I can think of some permutations that could lead to a disagreement.

When things go wrong on HT it is usually because there is no clarity, "I am posting this story because I want to poke at people," would at least be honest, as would an admission that "I use many names so that I cannot be pinned down and made responsible for what I say, because I can change my name at will and you have no idea who I am."

Call me old-fashioned but I think I am relatively transparent and what you see is who I am, and I enjoy the banter that I share with those with a similar outlook, including the infamous music threads Lobbing slogans over the wall will never light my candle.

Perhaps I have invested too much over here but trivialising, what I see as a community is unacceptable.


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heri_cles

well said ojo.

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rob333 (zone 7a)

whack-a-möle.



I see what you did there. And i love it. Ha!

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foodonastump

OT to the lurker who accidentally “liked” my comment then removed it... Come back!

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An (PNW 6b)

Thanks for that, Ojo. I haven’t been posting much the last several days because each thread I’m interested in devolves to something totally off topic. I feel the same way most others do, if someone makes up multiple accounts so that they can appear to have many people backing their arguments what’s the point of even joining in? When one person (or a few people in concert) can use multiple accounts each in a given thread how is it even worth trying to have a discussion?

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rob333 (zone 7a)

An, you're spot on. Bob's your uncle. If this is to remain a viable forum, with actual discussion, then you are spot on.

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MissMyGardens

As long as God, Thor and Odin don't hide their light under any bushel baskets! They're always welcome. :-)

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Embothrium(Sunset Climate Zone 5, USDA Hardiness Zone 8)

>When one person (or a few people in concert) can use multiple accounts each in a given thread how is it even worth trying to have a discussion?<

Because you're here to discuss concepts with whomever responds in a productive manner, rather than trying to win a battle with those who intend to disrupt. If nobody responds in kind to your posts then you just have to give up and move on to another thread (or use of your day) - any irrelevant background noise that is generated being no different inherently than if nobody answered at all.

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gr

I have never seen a more outrageous group of hypocrites with lack of self awareness than on the Hot Topics forum. BOTH sides.


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Lucille(9a)

Too bad there wasn't a different set of rules for HT. Or at least a relaxed set. After all it is Hot Topics. What is that saying? " If you can't stand the heat stay out of the kitchen?"

Even the hottest of topics can be discussed with courtesy. After all, it is ideas that are being discussed, which can more than adequately be described with even a moderate vocabulary.

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jlhug

About "name calling" --using derogatory terms to describe a group that likely includes me IS name calling. "Liberal" or "progressive" or Trump Fan" is not name calling. "Libbies", "leftists", "DemocRATS" is.

But, in the eyes of Houzz - what is name-calling?

How about Cheeto Head, Mittens or Nobama? Is that name calling? Or does it only matter when it is someone who posts here being called the derogatory name?

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cattyles

“Given the policy to allow new and multiple accounts, moderation will become a frustrating game of whack-a-möle.”

I really hope Emily will come back and talk about this. My understanding is there is little active moderation from Houzz, unlike GW. If flags are flying in a thread, a mod will take a look. No flags = all is well.

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mayflowers

Names for politicians don't bother me at all. I love Obama but I don't take it personally when cait calls him BO or feel the need to lash out at her for doing so. It is not a personal attack on trump supporters when we call trump names. You are not trump, nor are you his mommy who has to rush in to defend your little boy.

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mayflowers

If Houzz is okay with multiple accounts, the only thing we can do is ignore those posters who like to play that game. I try to ignore game players as a rule as their goal seems to be to take down HT.

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tryingtounderstand

Do you think that it would be different if we were all sipping tea and coffee together in a physically comfy space? I, for one, would say yes, Definetly. A calmer, friendlier atmosphere would ensue.

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cattyles

I agree with mayflowers. Engaging over and over is making the gamers ecstatic.

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cattyles

It doesn’t matter. It will continue as long as it gets attention.

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dandyfopp

These threads always happen, amount to nothing, and the bottom line is this.

Disruptive people get "removed", come right back under another name to continue the behavior that got them "removed" and Houzz is fine with that.

Ignore the trolls.

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chloe203

Just once I would like people to ignore one of those kinds of threads and see what happens.

I know, in my dreams.

Both sides get something out of those threads.

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purrmich _6

Emily, if you are still moderating this thread - can you tell us why no response from houzz when a snapshot of what's against the rules has been sent in.

I'm wondering where these "complaints" are going to and if anyone is reading them.

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Emily H(9)

@purrmich I'm not seeing any tickets submitted to support from this account. Did you submit it through help.houzz.com?

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purrmich _6

Yes and thank you for responding.

I went to help.houzz.com and then chose Profile Support, I believe.

I also chose "General Questions"


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Emily H(9)

Hmmm....I'm not seeing anything. Do you have a support ticket number you can share?

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ojo_sigo



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purrmich _6

I'll resubmit. Am I using the correct choices once I get to help.houzz.com?

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purrmich _6

Umm, why, ojo?

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Emily H(9)

Great! Yes, please select profile support. That should get to the right team.


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marquest(PA zone 6)

What I do not understand is.... If you do not like what someone is saying/and or you know someone enjoys annoying the board........why do people respond or even acknowledge them? Do people respond and give them the attention because they enjoy responding to them?


I think both are getting what they want and need. One enjoys annoying and one enjoys talking to the one that is there to annoy.



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purrmich _6

Thanks!

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purrmich _6

Marquest, it's reached the tipping point. Where you can't have a discussion because of all of the "interruptions".

It's different now.

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marquest(PA zone 6)

purrmich, nope. Online the only way you can be interrupted is stop talking about your issue and start talking to the interrupter. Interrupter wins because they made you do what they wanted.

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ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9

I agree completely with marquest, and have said it more than once. However, both sides continue to the bitter end, as though this were some pitched battle to be won. Why give these annoying people an audience and a target? All you need to do is not respond. What is so incredibly difficult about that?

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purrmich _6

I disagree. Maybe post-election will make a difference. There can't be discussion when you have to SOB so many people.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

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chloe203

This is the kind of board we want. No innocents here. Emily has told us that the flaggers are on both sides. I had a post removed on the "we have no excuses now" thread. To the best of my recollection there was nothing offensive in it . I pointed out that the OP was a Dana Milbanks op ed. Ring a bell with the person who flagged it? I doubt that it was flagged by someone on the right. I've been reading this board for a long time. I was a lurker for the most part for years and I can tell you It is glaringly obvious to me when the tone of this board changed.

Newsflash.

It didn't change with crazy posts from the right.

It changed when a certain person on the left started blanketing the board with cut and paste posts and snarky responses.

And now we've got the same blanketing of the board with cut and paste nonsense from the right.

Total dysfunction.

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purrmich _6

grapeleaves, that was my thread where the op wasn't attributed as it should have been. Sorry about that.

I can't imagine why your post disappeared. Or why anyone would have an issue with it.


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Becca Reese

grapeleaves, ime, Emily has been getting posts and threads back up when they do not violate any rules. It's frustrating and I'm sorry you are having your efforts here toyed with.

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elvis

I was a lurker for the most part for years and I can tell you It is glaringly obvious to me when the tone of this board changed.

Newsflash.

It didn't change with crazy posts from the right.

It changed when a certain person on the left started blanketing the board with cut and paste posts and snarky responses.

Agree, and I suspect she's been flagging my posts. She must have missed me.

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CindyMac(8b)

Elvis, I don't think so ... at least not on this thread. I commented after you, speculating on what grapeleaves was intimating, and my post disappeared too.

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

So who is the poster blanketing the board with cut and past posts and snarky responses?

Can you give us a hint?

I'm not even sure exactly what you mean by cut and paste posts with snarky responses. I suspect I do that sometimes, but I don't post enough to be accused of "blanketing the board"--so maybe I'm not getting what you are referring to.

Kate

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woodnymph2_gw

I suspect who is meant. It is not you, Kate. I dare not say....

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mayflowers

Catkin and momj start the most threads. Which one should we ask to stop? We can take a vote and see if it falls along party lines. Or we can accept that it doesn't violate any rules and worry about our own posts, as Emily has said several times.

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

OK--thanks anyway, woodnymph. : )

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chloe203

Don't think I implied people need to stop posting. My only point, is that there is enough blame to go around.

I try not to let my buttons get pushed. However, if I've had one too many cups of coffee, I fail and post something snarky too. Few of us is perfect in that regard.

It is just best for me to avoid reading those I know have the ability to push my buttons.


I just noticed a distinct change in tone of this board at a certain point. I used to just lurk, too intimidated to post anything with so many very smart posters.


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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Some people like to argue. I remember one D.C. rally/march I attended on abortion rights. Down by the fence separating the pro-choicers and the anti-choicers--and well patrolled by police on horseback--there were groups from both sides yelling arguments at each other. The overwhelming majority of the pro-choicers were focused instead on the major speakers/performer, but that was a lively active bunch still arguing with each other over the fence.

I went down to where I saw a couple friends arguing over and fence and tried to remind them that no matter how much or how loudly they yelled arguments over the fence, they would never succeed in "converting" those on the other side. My friends looked at me blankly, then turned around and started hurtling more arguments over the fence.

At all times before and since, they have struck me as reasonable people, but that day, the adrenaline pumping through them wouldn't let them stop yelling at the anti-choicers (nor the anti-choicers returning the yells).

We may have a couple of those types (from both sides) on our forum. Probably imminently sensible people in other circumstances.

Kate

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Kathy

Divided we will fall.

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ojo_sigo

I don't know who The Blanketer is, but I do know several posters who only contribute to stir the pot, the item about cut and paste and snark is an example of such a poster and their work.

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chloe203

so you consider me a stir the pot poster ojo?

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cait1

Well, grapeleaves, your comment is back but now someone flogged my reply to Annie in that thread.

How can discussion ensue if, instead of countering the comments, someone just flogs it out of existence?

I wish that feature was disabled on HT. The board was better before everyone thought they were official moderators.

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cattyles

Houzz uses the flag for moderation. They don’t actively monitor the forums. I think that’s a big part of what’s wrong. We are all unofficial moderators. I hope Emily corrects me if I’m wrong.

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purrmich _6

Some comments are inappropriate, big time. Official moderators would take those down, if HT had them.

And if they don't fit the houzz requirements for flagging, they come back up.

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foodonastump

Back in the day, you’d have to write to GW Support if you had an issue with something. I wasn’t on HT then, but on a far more contentious forum, and I will say that we saw a lot less posts and threads disappear. Since flagging initiates a human review anyway, I don’t see why it would add more work to go back to the old system. You can be a lot more descriptive in an email than you can be picking between three generic choices. And while you’re writing that email, there’s hope that you have an extra minute or two to realize that you’re just being a tool, and change your mind and just let it go.

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chloe203

Thanks Cait for letting me know it was back.

This is what was flagged. Absolutely not a thing wrong with the comment.

The only conclusion I can come to is that someone was going after me, not the content of the post, We have some very sick people among us. Below is what was flagged.

" The OP was from a Dana MIlbanks op ed in Washington post.

Tues is going to be a referendum about who we are and what kind of country we want to be.

We may no longer be able to say "this is not who we are"

Tuesday is going to be a loooong worrisome day for me.

  • 7 Likes"
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foodonastump

Outrageous.

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Well, grape, I hope you are thoroughly ashamed of yourself. Never read anything so outrageous in my life!

Kate

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olliesmom

It must have not been gone too long, I saw your post after you posted here it was gone, and I saw nothing wrong with it either.

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chloe203

I don't know how long it was gone. I don't usually go back through threads. My take is that this was flagged by someone one the left. I rarely engage with people on the right, so doubt I've gotten in their cross hairs.

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

I can't imagine why anyone on either side would give those remarks more than usual attention--and then move on.

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CindyMac(8b)

I commented here yesterday that your post was back. Then my comment was fl@gged for some reason as was one from Elvis.

Curious why you think it was someone on the left?

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CindyMac(8b)

I wasn’t on HT then, but on a far more contentious forum


Cooking?

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queenmargo

Kind of funny observation, seems everyone is using this thread with the forum rules as an opportunity to break all the rules under the guise of a discussion. Not anyone in particular, just an opinion on an observance, no need to reply;))

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chloe203

Exactly Dublin. Totally unremarkable comment. This had to be a personal vendetta flagging.
Cindy I rarely get involved in those whacky right wing posts.

I've had some tangles with people on the left and so that is why I think that. Queen bee syndrome may be the reason.

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woodnymph2_gw

That's interesting. I suspect that my relatively innocuous posts here have also been flagged by the Left, not the Right. (Strange!)

Cait, I seldom agree with you, but I do agree that the flagging should be disabled. And that our board was better before everyone took it upon themselves to be moderators.

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woodnymph2_gw

Bump. This never had come up the way it should have.

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elvis

This had to be a personal vendetta flagging...Queen bee syndrome may be the reason.

Yup. I have the same intuition. This is her life.

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purrmich _6

That was an innocent comment, grapeleaves. Inconsequential. Have you had a lot of comments disappear? Do you have someone following you around trying to besmirch your character? Or leave bits of pure snark after your comments?

If so, we should talk :) Otherwise, let it go. Sounds like a personality conflict that you should stay clear of.

Elvis, your intuition most definitely is not fact. "This is her life" is pure snark. Inappropriate and a personal attack.

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CindyMac(8b)

Purrmich, fl@g it.

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elvis

purrmich, nobody's talking about you. Go pour a cup of decaf and chill, that's what I'm having (with condensed fat-free milk, to cancel out the Famous Amos cookies).

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CindyMac(8b)

Elvis, that's exactly what's happening. You haven't been here.

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queenmargo

CindyMac, how many times have you followed me around and commented on my comments of sexual abuse as a kid? I made the comment of personal experience and you ran with it many times.

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queenmargo

Hi Elvis- good to see you back;)

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ojo_sigo

Drop it NOW everyone.

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purrmich _6

Good, elvis, that you're focusing on "yourself". It's a start.

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CindyMac(8b)

Margo, never. Where did you say that?

Btw, I view that as a personal attack, so I'm reporting it.

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purrmich _6

A doesn't cancel out B. They're unrelated. Although I give credence to Cindy.


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queenmargo

CindyMac, are you saying that you never commented on it? Never said that you did not believe me. Never made any comments relating to Dr. Ford.

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queenmargo

Let's have the whole thread looked at then,.

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queenmargo

How many comments have been made making Trump supporters deplorable, racist, white supremacists? Then you guys say "if the shoe fits"

Not like anyone knows who you are anyway Purrmich. NO real name or photo. Just a character.

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deegw

New rule. Flgged threads stay on the board. Consider that before you flounce.

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mayflowers

We're all just characters but the rule is no personal attacks of other members.

What new rule about flagged threads?

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momj47(7A)

So who is the poster blanketing the board with cut and past posts and snarky responses?

If you don't like the threads I start, then start some threads yourself.

I get tired of seeing the same three or four threads showing up day after day.

The forum gets stale pretty quickly that way.

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deegw

Flagged threads now stay on the board until they can be reviewed. There is also a new undo option if you change your mind and don't want to send the thread in for review.

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mayflowers

How did you find that out, d_gw?

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deegw

After the forums went down last week I noticed some weird things with the flag so I went over to the test forum and played around.

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elvis

purrmich _6

Good, elvis, that you're focusing on "yourself". It's a start.

Huh?

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Ann

FOAS, I'm fascinated that you mentioned there used to be a forum more contentious than HT! That must have been something!

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purrmich _6

Wrong thread, Ann. FOAS is not here.


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catkinZ8a


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CindyMac(8b)

Purrmich, he did post that here, but it's gone for some reason.

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mayflowers

Thanks, d_gw.



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purrmich _6

Ah, thnx, Cindy

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Ann

Well, no, purrmich. FOAS posted a comment 11 hours ago where it was discussed - on this thread.

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Ann

No, still there. I just reread it.

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Yönderbauti

Flagged threads now stay on the board until they can be reviewed.

Woohoo!Thank you Emily!

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CindyMac(8b)

Ann, that's weird. It was gone a little while ago, but you're right it's back now.

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purrmich _6

No reason for it to be gone so it came right back up. I think we all can adjust to that.

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Kathy

Maybe it waits to see if others flag it also? What offends one person may not offend others. I would like an ignore so I could make sense of some threads without the distractions.

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Ann

No adjustment needed from me:) I'm guessing it was there all along.

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Sleeping Giant


margievank

CindyMac, how many times have you followed me around and commented on my comments of sexual abuse as a kid? I made the comment of personal experience and you ran with it many times.

CindyMac(8b)

Margo, never. Where did you say that?

-----------------

CindyMac, let me know if you'd like to see the screenshots of that conversation. I'd be happy to show you, if you're interested. Emily too, for that matter.

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foodonastump

CindyMac, let me know if you'd like to see the screenshots of that conversation. I'd be happy to show you, if you're interested. Emily too, for that matter.

That thing with Margo happened a while ago. So as a new poster, you come here armed with screenshots from the past? I guess that’s one approach. Should we all be worried?

While it may be unpleasant for someone to keep bringing up a personal experience, that’s the risk you take when you put something out there. I’ve also learned the hard way that you’re not always going to get the reaction you want, so if it’s a sensitive topic probably best to rethink your post.

~~~~

D - I believe the undo option was always there. Since I’m almost exclusively on a phone, I occasionally have to undo things my thumbs accidentally do while scrolling.

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deegw

Food, as we have discussed before, Houzz behaves differently in different platforms. I almost exclusively look at the forums on my laptop. I asked Emily if there were recent changes to the flag function and she confirmed it.

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mayflowers

Probably wasn't a good idea to bring up issues between only two people as it seems to be snowballing from there.

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Sleeping Giant

foodonastump

14 minutes ago

CindyMac, let me know if you'd like to see the screenshots of that conversation. I'd be happy to show you, if you're interested. Emily too, for that matter.

"That thing with Margo happened a while ago."

And? What's your point? Nothing to see here?

"So as a new poster, you come here armed with screenshots from the past?"

You do understand that people can "lurk" here, literally for years, before creating an account, don't you? Sometimes, people like me think that 'enough is enough,' and join in on the "action." This forum isn't a "free for all," no matter what some people here might think. The fact that you're excusing the insult is very telling. The Sleeping Giant has awoken from its slumber.

"I guess that’s one approach. Should we all be worried?"

It's interesting to me, but not surprising in the least, that you're framing your questions so that I come across as a "threat," and that you come across a "victim." I guess that's one approach.

"While it may be unpleasant for someone to keep bringing up a personal experience, that’s the risk you take when you put something out there."

That's the "risk you take"? Really? A personal attack or an insult is 'what you get' when you post something personal about yourself here? Lovely. Good to know. Thanks.


Back "to sleep" I go.....

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deegw

Food, I flagged your post, this is what I see. On the Houzz PC platform we always had an immediate option to undo but the option disappeared after a minute or two.


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foodonastump

D - My post in between these two is no longer visible.

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foodonastump

Sleeping Giant - Not going to go point by point but yes if you start posting here and within a dozen posts or so INSERT yourself into a disagreement armed with screenshots from the past, well then your motivations speak for themselves.

And yes, anything you say can and will be used against you.

Good luck.

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mayflowers

FOAS, that one's easy to figure out. I was waiting for the lecture to confirm it and confirm it he did.

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foodonastump

Ah, yeah, now that you mention it.

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mayflowers

We must be doing something right if all these trump-supporting lurkers suddenly want to come out of hiding. ;)

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foodonastump

...or go into hiding with new names.

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jillinnj

I am seeing a lot of questions from folks wondering if X, Y, or Z is against the rules - and X, Y, and Z happen to be things they see *other* people doing that they don't enjoy. If you think it is, flag it. But really, the thing to pay attention to here is your own posts. Follow those rules for your own posts.

If you won't be very clear on what is allowed and what is not, how are we expected to know?

You say flag posts. Then you say don't flag too many posts.

If someone is continually flagging a post because they believe it violates the rules, but you decide it doesn't, how is the person flagging expected to know why it doesn't violate the rules? Will they be eventually be banned for flagging too much without knowing that what they were flagging does not violate the rules?

I just don't understand the reluctance of Houzz to actually moderate the forums? Why do you have them if you're not willing to do what is necessary to keep them healthy?

And please do not tell me to use help.houzz.com.

It's useless. I've tried. I get back boilerplate responses that do not at all answer my question. I respond asking my question again and I get...nothing. No response at all.

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jillinnj

grapeleaves, if people would follow the rules and end the personal attacks and name calling, there would be no need for anyone to use the flag feature.

Please, that's not true.

There is not one single attack of any kind on the music threads, yet they are constantly flagged.

I posted an article about Trump's racism. Twice. It disappeared both times. It did not mention anyone here. It was an article on the POTUS.

So, no. Some people flag anything they don't like. Pretending that doesn't happen is part of the problem.

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queenmargo

Well, I am sure glad The Sleeping Giant woke up;) Nice to know there is proof of which I speak;) Thank you Sleeping Giant and please stay awake and active!!

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tryingtounderstand

“If someone is continually flagging a post because they believe it violates the rules, but you decide it doesn't, how is the person flagging expected to know why it doesn't violate the rules? Will they be eventually be banned for flagging too much without knowing that what they were flagging does not violate the rules?” Apparently, That is exactly what happened to a very long time poster, who is very very well informed and gave awesome, though cynical and curt advice. One would say, with a sharp, though humorous tongue. Said individual is still missed and over 200 very valuable people left the forum in protest and in support.

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elvis

I posted an article about Trump's racism. Twice

To what end? This is a discussion forum.

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mudhouse

mayflowers: We must be doing something right if all these trump-supporting lurkers suddenly want to come out of hiding. ;)

You definitely are, and please keep it up. Only two more years before we reelect Trump!

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momj47(7A)

Only two more years before we reelect Trump!

You are going to jinx him with a comment like that.

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ilusn dweller

He sure as (going to) hell isnt going to stop playing the fear/scaredy cat card. The wussification of America.

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queenmargo

IF only my computer with my pics on were working, lol...just visualize Trump coming down that escalator... with no hands no less lol lol....the Miracle will continue!!

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mudhouse


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jillinnj

purrmich, nobody's talking about you.

You do not know that. You are not in everyone's head. Please stop acting like you know what everyone else is thinking and doing.


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ojo_sigo

How many people on this board love Trump? You got it Donnie, or maybe as many as two.

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jillinnj

To what end? This is a discussion forum.

I know this will be a shock to you, elvis, but the thread was about...wait for it....racism.

Get it?

Did you fl@g it, elvis?

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Ann

Sleeping Giant, thanks for your comment. I really agree with the part about framing a question to purposely make someone look like a "threat" and the person framing the question look like a "victim". I feel that is one of the most used, unfair, and underhanded tactics on HT - simply ugly. I'm watching HT with astonishment lately due to the amount of ugliness people are employing. The attempts at twisting and baiting have turned HT into an ugly battlefield.

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cattyles

Surely you aren’t saying there is no baiting and twisting from your side?

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chase_gw

One nice thing about these threads it keeps all the " poking " in one place...well most of it

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momj47(7A)

.just visualize Trump coming down that escalator... with no hands no less

You mean the image with the claques?

What happened to his hands? Are they missing

There is a hand that is holding on to the handrail

Do you hold on to the handrail when you go up or down an escalator?

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mayflowers

I would hope we are long past claiming that one side is innocent and the other side is the victim. Rather, there are a handful on both sides who "employ ugliness" and we are all the victims.

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elvis

No one here is a victim.

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chase_gw

Trust me Elvis there are some who think they are........and you're right ...they aren't.

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queenmargo

Some have a clever way of employing their ugliness and pretend to be a victim ,,,,, just sayin'

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mayflowers

Yeah, we are. Threads are flagged and we who were participating until it went poof are victims of your pettiness. Two people start sniping at each other over personal nonsense--we have to SOB to get back to the discussion, IF the discussion can even be saved. Often it leads to thread closure. Unreadable threads are common because so much has had to be removed.

Need more ugliness examples? Using another member's personal information to hurt them. As a matter of fact, just go back to the Code of Conduct in the OP. That list of don'ts came directly from behavior found on the HT forum. If no one was victimized by the behavior of a few, we wouldn't constantly have these complaint threads.

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queenmargo

Need more ugliness examples? Using another member's personal information to hurt them.

Happens to me all the time. I don't see you running to my defense.

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Jonnygun(zone 7)

It's the internet. It's not like anybody is actually in your face being ugly irl.

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cattyles

If HT was actively moderated, it would be obvious to see exactly when the baiting behavior and most hateful rhetoric starts. If no one responded to it, it would be even more clear.

If no one takes the bait perhaps it would not be as fun to fish?

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mayflowers

Excuse me, margo. As I've told you before, I never saw Sophie's post. If I saw her posting personal stuff about you, I would have flagged it. I flag personal attacks. I'd rather remove them and keep the thread on-topic then let the attack take over the thread.

It's funny that we know the forum is in trouble but those who are causing most of the problems don't see a problem and don't want to change their behavior. I'm no angel but I have really made a huge effort to not snark at people. I get my snark in at trump. There's plenty of material there.

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Becca Reese

Giant, I think you should contact Emily with that post. Those attacks need to stop.

Ann, I think the mere fact that we're not lashing out after their little blue splash last Tuesday is vexing to some. Hence, the baiting and increased hostility.

I'm not crestfallen and I don't think you or any other Trump supporter here are. Our spirits remain high and that's like kryptonite to them ;-)

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

I do find it rather curious when I see comments that appear to show someone believes this to be some sort of gated community or club, and react with suspicion and affront at the idea that anybody new might show up and comment on a topic, or to the idea that there are likely any number of other people reading these discussions but not participating.

Guys, it's the INTERNET.

And the idea that somebody can actually know, beyond any doubt, another member's motives or thoughts is also absurd.

As cattyles alluded to above - and it's an obvious conclusion - nobody is making anyone rise to their bait. That's a choice. Everything one does on this board is a choice. Even when we write something and post it, nobody can have any idea what we truly think, or do, or look like, or feel, or even who we are, unless they actually know us IRL - and even then...

forum |ˈfôrəm|

noun (pl. forums)

1 a place, meeting, or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged: it will be a forum for consumers to exchange their views on medical research.

• an Internet site where users can post comments about a particular issue or topic and reply to other users' postings; a message board.

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mudhouse

I do find it rather curious when I see comments that appear to show someone believes this to be some sort of gated community or club, and react with suspicion and affront at the idea that anybody new might show up and comment on a topic, or to the idea that there are likely any number of other people reading these discussions but not participating.

I agree Carol.

***********************

It's an open forum, not a closed club, and comments that scrutinize any new poster only prevent more people from joining in to the conversation. Wouldn't it be better if we had more voices from different backgrounds than we do now? I wish those comments speculating about "who" somebody is would stop, and I wish we could focus instead on the ideas or comments they're posting.

I suspect most lurkers wouldn't feel comfortable speaking up here. I know I would never have had the courage to step in to HT, if there had been this much scrutiny of new voices a few years ago.

Sometimes it reminds me of the "fresh fish" scene in Shawshank Redemption, where the inmates are watching new prisoners arrive, and taking bets on who'll crack first. Good grief!

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woodnymph2_gw

"those comments speculating about "who" somebody is...." Those comments only started after so many bizarre monnikers appeared and then disappeared and then came back under other "names." There seems to be no limit to the "gods of war" monnikers. Not only that, but some sound like "bots" in terms of their language, punctuation, etc. I've been on this forum for well over a decade and have never seen this aspect so egregious.

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Becca Reese

I thought we weren't supposed to speculate about names and "bots"? It takes a certain disrespect for this forum and its mods to blatantly break the rule in a thread dedicated to the rules.

Treat other members of the community with kindness. Do not post any
name-calling, personal attacks, or targeted harassment of other members
of the community - including but not limited to referring to other
members as bots or trolls, impersonating other users
, or attempting to
remove all of their content through flagging if it does not, in and of
itself, violate our terms
.

If people came here to debate and discuss instead of attack, we wouldn't even being discussing who's who and who's not and bot this and bot that.

I have never read any poster's submissions and thought I could tell if they were a "bot".

So, I hope we can put that behind us and actually go about the business of posting within the rules instead of getting personal.

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mudhouse

woodnympht: Not only that, but some sound like "bots" in terms of their language, punctuation, etc.

I think this whole bot thing is ridiculous. In terms of language or punctuation, I haven't seen anybody post anything here that I couldn't understand. What if somebody wants to post here, but English isn't their first language? Are they out?

People talk differently, people post differently, nothing wrong with that. If somebody types something that's unclear, it's easy enough to ask a question, or just move on.

I'm not trying to rev up an old argument, but I don't want Sleeping Giant to think that they have to go back to sleep. I'd like to see more lurkers post here, not fewer.

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foodonastump

Exactly. How many times were we told that what’s-his-fifteen-names were different people and then recently he confirmed that mayflowers pretty much had the list right. How many times has what’s-her-name-du-jour come back and pretended for a second to be new? Don’t like it then don’t do it. If FOAS gets banned you won’t have to guess who FOAS1 or similar is.

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purrmich _6

Call those posters who are in fact, one poster, whatever you want.

Changing your name on a forum is called "masquerading". It's labeled because it's disrespectful and because posters DO want to know who they're communicating with.

No one knows for sure about bots or no bots. Some of us think they are and since it's not a thing that can be proven or not - we'll decide for ourselves, thanks so much.

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cattyles

It’s hard to have a sincere discussion that begins with being forced to accept a falsehood. It’s also hard when the thread starts with and continues to resemble bathing a cat; nothing but teeth, claws and flying fur. My decision is to engage very little or not at all.

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mayflowers

Good analogy, catty. One of those just popped up on the forum.

I don't know what a bot sounds like but if what dropped in here pre-election is an example, I have no problem ignoring a bot.

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Becca Reese

Houzz ALLOWS name changes and with the spate of revenge name changes here, y'all have no room to talk. Once again, the name and identity speculation is supposed to stop, per Emily. Why do some have so little respect for her?

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Becca Reese

Good for you, catty. May others follow your example.

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mayflowers

Respecting Emily means nothing if we disrespect everyone else on the forum. Start with yourself, Becca.

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Ann

"Ann, I think the mere fact that we're not lashing out after their little blue splash last Tuesday is vexing to some. Hence, the baiting and increased hostility.

I'm not crestfallen and I don't think you or any other Trump supporter here are. Our spirits remain high and that's like kryptonite to them ;-)"

I think this has been apparent as well. I think it's odd. I wasn't on HT in 2008 or 2012, but I'm curious if those on the right showed tremendous lashing out? I just don't think it's what most on the right do. I think we tend to accept the outcome of an election and go from there - planning for the next one and dealing with the current situation. This hasn't been what we've seen from the left since November 2016 and I think, like with all political views, they can't understand why others don't think and/or act like they do. I'm not at all crestfallen. Quite the contrary, I'm looking forward to the next two years. I have no need whatsoever to lash out at any Democrat who simply voted for the candidates or issues of their choosing. I may disagree with the views, but I have complete respect for their right to and reason for their own votes. I have no need to say things like - "You voted for him/her, OWN IT". That would be simply bizarre to me (and quite childish as well).

One of the funniest things that happened to me in recent days was a few posters who popped into threads I was on to make a completely off topic comment asking/baiting/taunting about the fact that a Dem won the governor's race in my state (of which there was never any doubt about in my state or from me). As if that was something that should be disturbing me and their comments were going to somehow get to me. If it wasn't so sad/desperate/childish, it is frankly hysterical.

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purrmich _6

One person congratulated us on the House win. One.

I give that person props for maturity.


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cattyles

Just making an observation/asking a question but what does it mean if a poster addresses Emily in a totally different way than they address other posters? Or posts on this thread in a way not seen on any other thread?

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Kathy

I think the Dems win is getting to some. It’s going to get worse for them as Trump gets more and more desperate with his fear.

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Ann

Congratulated? Now, that's a funny comment (or expectation if it was expected)! Lol, I wonder how many of the HT left "congratulated" the right for Trump's win:))))

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purrmich _6

Ann, you miss the point ENTIRELY.

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Becca Reese

One of the funniest things that happened to me in recent days was a few
posters who popped into threads I was on to make a completely off topic
comment asking/baiting/taunting about the fact that a Dem won the
governor's race in my state (of which there was never any doubt about in
my state or from me). As if that was something that should be
disturbing me and their comments were going to somehow get to me. If it
wasn't so sad/desperate/childish, it is frankly hysterical.

Glad you didn't take the bait, Ann. Dems won in my area and you could knock me over with a feather if the Reps won!

No sky screaming for me.

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foodonastump

Ann I’m glad you’re FINALLY picking up on that our attitude has nothing to do with the 2016 election itself. Or 2008 or 2012 or 2018. It has to do with the disgrace who defecates in the White House, literally and figuratively. Can you explain it to your friends?

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Ann

Lol Becca. Same here. My state used to be red, but CA has become very interested in moving to my state over the last 10-20 years. It's turned blue.

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purrmich _6

Once again, you show no respect for Emily by flagrantly violating her rules.

you show no respect for Emily

flagrantly violating her rules.

Once again

______________________________

And that ^^^^^ is a personal attack and not the truth.

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ilusn dweller

How about letting Emily decide for herself who is and isnt showing respect.

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Becca Reese

Ann

Lol
Becca. Same here. My state used to be red, but CA has become very
interested in moving to my state over the last 10-20 years. It's turned
blue.

It's pernicious and only going to get worse as more people leave CA.

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Becca Reese

We don't need to depend on Emily to referee every rule violation. It's clear when it happens.

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Ann

FOAS, not sure what to say to your comment, any of it. It's kind of been going that way lately (not knowing how to respond to unexpected comments from you).

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

FWIW, the old school term was "sock puppet".

And here's a funny thing: when browsing this site on my phone, the user names I see under topic titles are not the same as ones I see when I open the thread. Some are names I recognize from the past.

That said, it does not deter me from posting; other things are more apt to affect that choice - mainly the bickerfests and flaming and if there are more comments than I care to read through. Please - hardly anyone here is using an IRL name anyway.

And discernible hostility reflects most negatively on the people exhibiting it, IMO.

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mayflowers


So now we've gone from disrupting the forum to disrespecting the forum. It's the same thing in my book.

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mayflowers

Carol, yes-- hostility. That one word describes some posters perfectly. And it's not just occasionally. It's in every post.

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Becca Reese

No, I can understand Emily's simple rules.

Ann, I agree.

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queenmargo

I just came back from having pancakes for dinner;)

So much prep winning.....!!!!

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mudhouse

Ann: Lol Becca. Same here. My state used to be red, but CA has become very interested in moving to my state over the last 10-20 years. It's turned blue.

Ann, completely blue now here too! The race for my district flipped to the Dem candidate the day after the election (they counted another 8000 absentee votes, and reversed the results.) So, Democrat governor elected, no Republicans in our congressional delegation, no Republican holding statewide elective office, except for two members of the judiciary.

Send help!

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chase_gw

Love the blue movement.......thank you Mr Trump

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purrmich _6

It's the rainbow wave. People of color, often women. It's very overdue, and may be just in time.

Thanks for reporting such great news, MH. Lovin' it.

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mayflowers

Everything is flipping blue because of trump.

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mudhouse

Well, there's that little matter of the Senate; that didn't flip blue.

But I'm glad to bring you all a moment of happiness. And it's OK, I'm like a little island of red sanity, in a sea of blue madness. A beacon of light and reason, in a cave of confusion and darkness. And I'll keep voting. ;-)

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Becca Reese

The Senate, where Republicans GAINED seats. Trump lost nowhere near what Obama lost. Consider that when you take into account the 24/7 Trump hate and negative stories being vomited out by the MSM, and their refusal to do their job and report Trump's many accomplishments.

That makes this midterms quite remarkable.

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chase_gw

Two or three seats in the Senate gets you not much more than a buffer on appointments . On the other hand......the House and the 7 Governers , and a huge gain in most demographics...........read 'em and weep.

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Jonnygun(zone 7)

This thread is perfect example of HT. It's got everything lol.

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ilusn dweller

“Democrats crushed Donald Trump with a blue wave that won them more House seats than any party has won in 40 years. Despite this, many D.C. pundits and Trump allies have been downplaying the results.”

Im not telling where I just lifted this from. But I guarantee its true. :)

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Kathy

The Democrats were remiss starting in the 90s when the Reps were working to elect local candidates. They have wisened up and have recaptured much of what was lost in local races. Thanks to Trump the Dems have seen the hate and the lack of accountability in the Republican Party.

The women are using their voices and voting power to steer the ship now. We will see a more compassionate America return. The Reps are splitting. It will be Trump against moderates in the GOP. Trump will be gone one day and the party will flounder. Right now they are hiding behind his smoke screen. I believe many of them were compromised as long ago as Reagan’s term and Trump holds the cards.

Time will tell. Trump is showing signs of unraveling already.

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purrmich _6

Repubs are splitting. it will be so interesting to watch.

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mudhouse

purrmich: OMG, MH, the new people have not come on and you're living in in your little island. You don't ever have to venture out in that cruel cruel blue world? Don't tempt yourself. There's culture, great food, stimulating conversations, POC, some "others". Is your wall high enough?

Are all attempts at a little humor completely lost on you, purrmich?

No, the people and culture of my state are great, thanks. The only problem is, some of them (in the larger cities) vote funny. But, we're working on it. And I'll keep trying to clear up their areas of confusion, as best I can. Just like I do here, with you guys. You're welcome.

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mayflowers

Nancy Pelosi recruited excellent candidates. Remember that when the House votes for a new Speaker. Two more years as Speaker to get us through 2020 and then she can rest on her laurels. Millennials and progressives will vote for great candidates so let Nancy provide them. Plus she really pisses off trump supporters.

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purrmich _6

It's an open forum, not a closed club, and comments that scrutinize any new poster only prevent more peopl from joining in to the conversation. Wouldn't it be better if we had more voices from different backgrounds than we do now?

You must really hate it when Canadians are insulted on HT, because they're Canadians. Emily has laid down that rule - it's an international forum - but some here on this thread continue to harrass Canadians. Which I'm sure, based on what you've written,you are completely against.

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Becca Reese

Is revenge poofing allowed, Emily? Seems we have a rash of that. ^

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Becca Reese

How can you be sure about what anyone else thinks, mayflowers? Are you the thought police?

Emily has addressed this in the past. Against the rules.

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Ziemia(6a)

A correction - many of the Dem candidates for the House were not recruited by Pelosi. Some simply stepped forward and many were recruited by organizations other than the DNC.

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mayflowers

And I'll keep trying to clear up their areas of confusion, as best I can. Just like I do here, with you guys. You're welcome.

Is that humor too, mudhouse? Because I'm usually more confused when you're done with us. ;)

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mayflowers

Becca Reese

How can you be sure about what anyone else thinks, mayflowers? Are you the thought police?

Emily has addressed this in the past. Against the rules.

You know what to do if you think I broke a rule, Becca.

Is this the post you think broke a rule? Go ahead and flag it.

Plus she really pisses off trump supporters.

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mudhouse

Is that humor too, mudhouse? Because I'm usually more confused when you're done with us. ;)

I know, Mayflowers, but don't worry, I'm not giving up on you yet. I'm more of a slow-but-steady pace person, and I'm pretty patient.

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mayflowers

I see. I'll be so totally confused when you're done that I'll believe anything for blessed relief.

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purrmich _6

Yikes!

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chase_gw

I don't care a whit that some are so offended by the opinions of non citizens. It's just evidence of how small their world is. They are so insulated and so uninformed

The facts are American influence and prestige has shrunk under Trump. The world, including NK and Russia have zero respect for him ...he is not to be trusted.

He is such a snowflake he hasn't the guts to attend the peace conference tomorrow.......the issues are way more complicated than his brain can manage and the other attendees are so much smarter than him

So back home he will go.........but it's not safe there either. He is imploding

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Becca Reese

I don't know about y'all, but I pay my bills with "prestige". LOL.

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purrmich _6

We'll keep posting facts and whether they register with the frw, it's up to them. I'm not patronizing and believe everyone here is an adult. And am not trying to force anyone to rethink anything.

It's never worked. Dems do not canvass at homes where the occupants have voted republican.

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cattyles

All of the hostility stems from not being able to stop perceiving an insult to Trump as a personal insult. Look at Ojo's drone thread. No love for Obama to be seen. Dems can disagree with one another and Dem leaders without hostility. Criticism of Trump should not cause hostility. Disagree without the hostility.

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Kathy

Catty, this has been the problem from day one. There seems to be no separation between Trump and his supporters, which seems to mean they are emotionally bonded.

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cattyles

Exactly, Kathy.

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jillinnj

The only problem is, some of them (in the larger cities) vote funny. But, we're working on it. And I'll keep trying to clear up their areas of confusion, as best I can.

Interesting comment from mudhouse.

If you vote blue, it's because you vote "funny" and are confused.

I get it. If someone doesn't vote the same as you, they're confused. But if liberals speak about why the right votes the way they do, we're full of hatred and cannot understand how someone can think differently. Hypocritical thinking at its best!


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Becca Reese

She gets it, mudhouse.

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mayflowers

I thought that was a joke. Mudhouse???? ;)



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jillinnj

Yeah it's always a joke when one from their side says it. It's a common excuse mudhouse has used for Trump's words too.

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chloe203

keep them talking and they show their true colors.

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mudhouse



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ilusn dweller

Happiness is when your posts go poof.

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Becca Reese

mudhouse, great meme. Lacking a sense of humor would be a miserable existence.

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Kathy

I do agree with MH. If we can’t laugh at ourself we would be a PIA.

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Ann

Lol, what a both silly and desperate attempt by several to try to "trap". So weird, so obvious, so childish.

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queenmargo

They be the de-baiters, not the debaters.

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purrmich _6

I just went thru this thread because it's late Monday and I assume moderators have removed what is against policy and what's remaining is within policy.

And I'm gratified about a few of the comments that have not returned.

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mayflowers

Can you explain the trap, Ann?

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mudhouse

I suggest we just move on, mayflowers.

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mayflowers

As long as you don't think I'm part of it because I have no idea what it is that everyone else is seeing as a trap.

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mudhouse

Humor's a bit risky here because it can be misunderstood, but I still think it's worth the risk sometimes. Your understanding of my comments was on target, mayflowers. I think I missed some comments here myself (probably just as well!)


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foodonastump

mudhouse, great meme. Lacking a sense of humor would be a miserable existence.

According to the local meme police that’s an image of words, not a meme. Where is 4bauti, anyway?

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queenmargo

I just went thru this thread because it's late Monday and I assume moderators have removed what is against policy and what's remaining is within policy.

And I'm gratified about a few of the comments that have not returned.

Glad to see my comments are still here, since you are keeping track;)

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ilusn dweller

I actually read every word of the terms of service and have been careful not to break it since I returned a couple weeks ago as ilusn dweller. No idea why my posts were removed from this thread. If i disappear from HT and go back to conifers only that is why (deleting threads that Im confident dont break TOS). If I get the banhammer for questioning authority, so be it.

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Emily H(9)

Hi there, Many comments were removed from this thread, though I can't guarantee we caught all of them that were at issue. @ilusn I can't be sure of what happened with the comments you reference being removed, but in general sometimes that happens when a comment is referring to an older one that has been removed. There can be a cascading effect if one bad comment has been removed but subsequent comments are referencing it. Hope that makes sense.


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ilusn dweller

Thanks for the explanation Emily. I never thought of that, but it makes perfect sense. I knew we were on the same page ;) And I almost didnt post that. Ive read your thoughts on moderation and agree with your approach. Keep on keepin on and I am glad you believe in “2nd chances”, most sites dont. :)

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ilusn dweller

Love ken_adrian. I know him from conifers which is where I hung out exclusively for years until I stumbled into HT because I had problems logging in one time. In fact my old username was inspired by him (Ken from Adrian, Pete from Powell, figured Id give him a hard time right off the bat). Its easy to josh with him/give him a “hard time” as hes definitely got a great sense of humor. Not to mention his first hand experiences planting conifers on 5 acres (maybe 10?) over many, many years. Though he is definitely booksmart with conifers, his words come mostly from his experiences. I appreciate that. I know hes a hosta freak as well(something like 2000+ varieties). Im getting into them as I only have shady spots left to plant.


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ilusn dweller

Its all good. When I signed up for houzz (gardenweb back then) about 5? years ago, I never read the Terms of Service. When I read them 2-3 weeks ago, I saw that profanity is not allowed. So there were probably 500+ reasons for me to go. Im just glad to legitimately still be here as mentioned earlier. Thanks again.

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queenmargo

I rather like you Pete from Powell. You seem real genuine.

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Ziemia(6a)

Comment removed as elvis is right - wrong thread.

Thank you, elvis.

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ilusn dweller

Thanks margievank, I can honestly say ditto(awwww). While most of my friends are left, I also have a few great friends who are quite conservative. From older-aged “old-school and raised in a large working class family conservative” to “watches/listens to far right shows, believes in conspiracy theories, etc conservative”. We get along fine in person, and politics definitely gets discussed (fun!). I realize opinions are exactly that and can agree to disagree and admit if Im wrong (rarely need to of course:). There is more to life than politics.

On the internet is another story for many reasons, a lot of which Im guilty of.

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elvis

Ziemia(6a)

About spotting errors... just saw a tip ... Change the font to one you are unfamiliar with - it's be found to help spot those rascals.

https://www.reddit.com/r/LifeProTips/comments/9wql0z/lpt_when_youre_editing_a_paper_change_the_font_to/?utm_source=reddit-android

Wrong thread?

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Ann

ilusn dweller, I love your most recent post. I think I (as a conservative) could get along just fine with you.

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ilusn dweller

Thanks Ann! I agree, and am confident we would get along just fine or better.

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Ann

Thought about what before, ilusn?

I love chatting with liberals who want to talk about policy and issues and have no desire to get into personal attacks just because I have a different view. I respect that we all have different views and think views other than mine are just fine. I don't feel the need to reach agreement - discussion can still be fun.


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elvis

#Me too

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ilusn dweller

Right now none of my friends are die hard Trumpsters. I do have friends that I know voted Trump though and generally support a lot/most of his policies(while realizing hes a douchebag). I dont know what news they watch but I doubt its Fox. Having said that, Im 99.9% certain one of my Thousand Oaks friends- havent lived there since 04, the union electrician who let me stay in his house with his family for 4 months while I found a place to live, is a die hard Trumpster and I am 100% certain if I was out there now, Id still be visiting him at least once a week and if he still listens to Rush, then wed still be listening to Rush and debating and telling e.o. how full of doo doo they were and yadadada. Those were the days.

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Ann

Lol, that's great ilusn. I listen to Rush when I happen to be in my car during his show and I definitely watch Fox. I hope you'll stay on HT. You'd be a great addition! We can tell each other how full of doo doo each other is and yadadada:)

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Kiki

The above is from a well known white supremacist site, VDARE.

Limbaugh tried to explain his way out of defending Francis,a white supremacist, by saying he's an entertainer, but like Tucker Carlson and other far far right wing " entertainers" they have crossed the line to white nationalism.

White grievance politics starting with Gingrich is nothing new , for the far right, but now they are appealing to the alt right, to expand their base.

There have always been the typical GOP , the anti womens, lgbtq rights, anti Muslim , anti civil rights, racists and bigots, but Trump and the GOP have had to expand their diminshing base, by appealing to the alt right. The far far right evangelicals who made a Faustian bargain with Trump are not enough to expand the base, they needed to cast a broader net with the dog whistles of refugees " invading" our country bringing disease and taking all of our jobs, blah blah blah.

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