Seeking layout help for tentative Spring kitchen renovation!
Hello! Seeking advice on the layout of this kitchen we plan on renovating in the spring. I am attempting to attach a graph paper image of the current layout and I will supply pics of the actual space as soon as I can.
As you can see, it is rather unfitted and I struggle with many openings and doorways. We are a family of 5 transitioning into the college years. We cook and bake a lot, so we require a functional kitchen with lots of storage.
One thing I will say about the layout that is hard to convey with a drawing is that the peninsula is open with no upper cabinets or wall. It has an overhang that spans across the front and makes the base cabinets very impractical It is adjacent to an open staircase that goes to the basement and also the second floor. We are willing to wall that off. We are also willing to wall off one of the patio windows on the left. The door to the patio we would like to keep. We would rather not move the sink as it is under a nice window facing our front yard, which I like. Stove and Fridge can go wherever. We can't change the front door.
A couple stools in the kitchen would be nice for the occasional tea or snack.
At my last house, I had a nice cabinet dedicated to baking which was nice, and also a nice pantry for foodstuff and appliances, which I also miss a great deal.
Thank you in advance. I have a few ideas of my own, but I am not very confident about them, and I am looking forward to any suggestions or opinions.
Comments (27)
rantontoo
5 years agoBarb Williams
5 years agolast modified: 5 years agoThanks for replying rantontoo!
It is wraparound style. We don't really want to lose either door. They each have a unique purpose.
The front door gets used as an entrance. The "porch" in the front is really just a narrow uncovered walkway to the other side porch that is larger and has seating on it. Also, when we've discussed eliminating the front door, we aren't sure what we would do with the front of the house, visually? Its the only front entrance to the house and is surrounded by stone.
The side patio door is a nice direct access to the larger portion of the front porch where the actual seating is. We are willing to lose the adjoining patio fixed pane window that is right next to that door.
EDIT: I think I finally understood your question. Here is a pic of that patio door/window from the outside. I’m not sure how much we could move it or if it would make enough of a difference Here is also an interior pic of the space.
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Comments (6)First of all, THANK YOU for taking the time to read this, look at my plan, and assist me. In response to some of the questions/comments... The right side that desertsteph mentioned not being able to see/read on the drawing - right now there is a large old butcher block table there, with 3 wall cabs and some shelves above. We do not use the table - it basically collects junk. I think that area could be used much more efficiently. Yes, this is mostly "steamlining and prettying up"! I'm not opposed to changing things *if* it really makes sense to do it but am not looking to change things just for the sake of change. I think I have a good base and there is no need to tear it all out and start from scratch. I just want to be sure that I am making the most efficient and effective decisions. I was thinking of putting another oven beside the refrigerator; it seems like the easiest place for a new appliance. I do have a floor-to-ceiling pantry that holds a ton of stuff. If I don't put in a second oven, the space beside the refrigerator would probably be a combo of deep drawers and a good sized pantry cabinet, and/or some kind of built-in microwave as right now we have a countertop MW that just sits on an old dresser! The floor is pine planks - very pretty, warm color - all the first floor floors are the same material, and it will remain. The hall door sees the least traffic, so it seems like the cook center is already in the best place given that I need to keep 5 doors into this space. The space between the island and the kitchen table is basically a corridor to the living room, so that needs to stay clear. I briefly considered a new countertop with an overhang on that side but the overhang would make my existing top drawers unusable, so I ruled that out. We do not have an entry room or mudroom at this entrance to the house; there is a brick patio outside this door. Our laundry room is as long as the kitchen but about 6 ft wide; part of this is a half bath, some is laundry, and the rest is storage and "mud room" functions. There is a lot packed into that little space but it works pretty well. I have aspirations of building a covered stoop at the back since we do use this entrance all the time, but that will be a few years away. I don't think our site setbacks would allow a full mudroom or entry here. I like the shelf above the cabinets too, although I'm not much of a collector, so I don't know what to put up there. I'm short so it is too high for me to access for storage, and works as display only. I'm having outlets installed above the shelf as part of this project so I can install lighting up there to light the ceiling. My finish plan is: *keep the floors *cover the ceiling with an anaglyptic wallcovering that looks like tin tiles which will be painted white *install crown mold all around, painted white *paint the cabinets white, add a "light rail" piece of trim to the bottoms, switch out the hinges with something less obtrusive, change the pulls on the drawers to bin pulls, and change the door pulls to new ORB/white porcelain pulls *paint the wainscot and trim (now blue) dark brown, picking up on the darkest brown tones of the floor and the dark brown fleck in the laminate countertop *paint the walls a very light cream/yellow (BM Pearly Gates, I think) *I'd hoped to replace the countertop to the left of the range with Corian to match what's on the right. It's probably 20 years old and it looks great, but this CT is so old that I am having trouble matching it. I am still looking at options here - would like to use something white/light colored but have also considered the Ikea butcher block for economy reasons, although I am not sure I am up to that DIY project *I bought subway tile for the backsplash at the range, but I have to replace the CTs first because they are not currently at the same height (only a fraction of an inch off, but against the lines of the tile it will be really evident) I guess my biggest question is - is it worth it to consider moving the sink? Would I gain the same benefit by undermounting a new sink at the existing location on the island and having a butcher block piece made to cover half of it to expand the prep area? That would certainly be less expensive, but would it be as effective as the combination of a main sink and a prep sink? I appreciate your time and your thoughts. Thanks for your help!...See MoreSeeking layout help for kitchen remodel/expansion
Comments (7)Little bit of commentary explaining some thoughts. And that's all these are. The number below are the numbers on the pic. 1. I'm guessing you wouldn't be talked outta those stairs, but that's an alternative - do a doorway in the living room into "closet" of laundry hall. 2. I did show this alternative - kill the inside basement stairs and move the ref to this wall. There's likely 101 reasons you wouldn't like this, but its a really GREAT place for the ref. I think I can hear your screams of "Nooo!" all the way in Baltimore. 3. Aisle widths. Aisles are measured counter to counter. Roughly a counter on a base cabinet on a wall is 25" to 26" deep. An island with one row of cabinetry is usually at least 29" wide at the counter level - this includes a panel on the backs of the cabinets and appropriate overhangs. If You use a tall bank of either shelving or closed cabinets that are 12" deep, your two aisles are about 39". The current recommended minimum aisle is 42" (It changed several years ago - I think partly on account of tall tub dishwashers and 36" wide refrigerators). If you try to have full depth cabinets(25" at the counter) or even a counter depth refrigerator(~28" w/handles) on the opposite wall with the island, both your aisles go down to 31"-33". They might be less depending on "stuff" like how plumb the room is, the exact depth of the ref, etc. That can feel kinda small. You should be able to move something into your existing kitchen to lower the aisle space to try it. 4. Table space. Concerned about the choice of table, simultaneous use of the table and back door, etc. With a 2 foot wide table, with no one occupying the table, it will be 4.5 feet wide and the table edge should be 30" from the wall or 5.2ish feet. When occupied, the wall side has enough space for a seated person(24" beyond the table edge), but when someone sits on the door side, the total width is 6 feet - all the space there is. Assuming that you guys or your friends may not be perfect about tucking in chairs, think about doing either a banquette or purchasing a dining bench for the side up against the wall. It helps with spacing, but might drive you nutz in alignment to the window and wall area. So if you put the bench under the window and run the table in the other direction? 5. Consider moving the range (sorry for calling it a rangetop) closer to the sink and island. I know somebody is thinking about prep between sink and range, but you're more likely to prep on end of island. It's less effort for getting pots full of water and dumping them. 6. Consider a fold-up or drop-in counter to be used only when you need some extra space instead of slightly blocking the stairs all the time....See MoreSeeking advice on 1915 foursquare kitchen renovation
Comments (14)Thank you so much for all the comments! In answer to the questions, - We have thought about a prep sink, and plumbing anywhere is straightforward because we're over a basement. But we have a second house with a similar setup and a prep sink, and we never use the prep sink, it just gets in the way. We are thinking about adding an undermount prep sink that could be covered up with a cutting board if we wanted to. - Unfortunately, we're pretty limited to the space we have. The original footprint of our house has 100 year old heart pine floors throughout and our historic district regulations wouldn't allow a massive reconfiguring. We don't mind the space limitations, we're an old house people, just want to be sure what we have is well planned-out. - We have seen what the brick looks like and it's great. The chimney was originally exposed in the kitchen of the original house and the former owners covered it with a soffit when they remodeled the kitchen. - I know there is no space on the left side of the range, but if we get the 48" range, I would have a griddle on the left hand side, and the griddle cover would serve as a staging area. That said, not having a staging area on that side (esp. because I'm right handed!) is a big concern. This has given me plenty of food for thought. I'm going to think today about putting a second oven in on the window wall. dyhgarden - I also like your idea. It would make a lot of sense to have the range on the window wall, and we could definitely add a second window instead of widening the window (window work can't be done until next year anyway so we have plenty of time to adjust the plan). I'm worried the range would be in the way on that wall, though. But I think I'm a little scarred by having a cooktop peninsula on the hallway side that forces a bottleneck in that walkway. Here's a larger layout with hopefully readable dimensions:...See MoreCounter height table for an island
Comments (33)Very nice! We converted a 3x5 marble-topped dining table to work table height--a little over 34" tall. For years we used a bench for seating on one side (similar to your bench), then as the grandkids arrived, added a cast iron swing-out seat to each end. The swing-out seats are mounted to table legs, and tuck completely under the top when not in use. Since our top is marble, the added weight means we didn't need to bolt the table legs to the floor, for stability. If you don't plan to move the table around, you could use floor bolts. I purchased the vintage seats on ebay, then painted the iron to match the table legs, and added a wider wood top to each. Pics of my table/island are in a recent thread: [Scroll down.[(https://www.houzz.com/discussions/seeking-layout-help-for-tentative-spring-kitchen-renovation-dsvw-vd~5523140?hz_ref=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaG91enouY29tL3wxMzQwNWJjNy1jZThhLTRjYWYtODM5NS0wZmQ2OWM5OWQwMTl8MTU0MTY5MjA4OTIyNQ) A GardenWeb discussion of swing-out seats:[Suspended seating on island[(https://www.houzz.com/discussions/suspended-seating-on-island-dsvw-vd~4184467?n=16)...See Moreartistsharonva
5 years agoPlease post measures & photos of each wall & whole kitchen, so Houzzers can assist better;)
Barb Williams
5 years agoBarb Williams
5 years agoHere are some more photos, as requested
SINK WALL: Distance from corner of room to end of cabinet run is 15’. Sink run of cabinets is 8.5.
PORCH/PATIO DOOR WALL: Wall measured 11’. In this photo, we have a stand-alone armoire pushed into the space of the fixed window to created much needed temporary storage.
RANGE/FRIDGE WALL: This wall measures 9’.
PENNINSULA WALL: The penninsula measures 8.5’
Barb Williams
5 years agolast modified: 5 years ago
mama goose_gw zn6OH
5 years agolast modified: 5 years agoI feel as if I'm trying to pack 10# of sand into a 5# bag with this plan. There are overlapping zones and a potential bottle-neck, but it gives you a peninsula for prep and baking, a closet, a pantry cabinet, and a coffee/snack area outside of the prep/cooking area. I voided the corner by the sink, but if you can have custom deep drawers (morgue drawers*) made, you can recover some of that space for storage, inconvenient tho' it seems.
Rough sketch:
*GardenWeb discussions--morgue drawers
I put the closet near the garage entry, in the space where there is more elbow room to remove and don coats, but if you need it by the front entry, line-up can be switched.Barb Williams
5 years agoBarb Williams
5 years agoBarb Williams
5 years agolast modified: 5 years agomama goose_gw zn6OH
5 years agolast modified: 5 years agoThere should be 3' between the end of the peninsula and a counter-depth fridge door. A CD fridge has a 24" box, with a 3" deep door. Your plan uploaded at a slight angle, and my Paint program doesn't do angles, so it looks wonky. I don't know how much space is available for the dividing wall, and I neglected to account for it. The wall won't be load-bearing, so doesn't need to be framed with 2x4s, but will need enough space for shallow electrical boxes. Maybe 3"?
The peninsula can be 3" shorter, and the morgue drawers 3" narrower to leave enough space for the seating. NKBA recommends 24" elbow room for each seat, but in such a small space I'd cheat a few inches. Also, use stools that will tuck under the counter, since that is a walkway for the entry. Having stools in the entry is not ideal, but I can't think of another layout that keeps the range out of a walkway.
ETA, a quick reversal of the peninsula plan. You would take items from the fridge, wash at the sink, then prep beside the sink, or move to the peninsula to finish prep. The peninsula is a barrier between the range and fridge, though, and the fridge is in the walkway from the front door.
Version with 24" deep cabinet on the peninsula:
artistsharonva
5 years agoMaybe you can get a mud room by using the open space. The challenge will be the doors. maybe..
Barb Williams
5 years agomama goose_gw zn6OH
5 years agolast modified: 5 years agoWith the three doors in the garage entry vestibule, I don't see any storage options, other than a few hooks on the available wall space. However, artistsharonva gave me an idea to extend the range wall for more kitchen storage, and a way to move the fridge out from the wall, to gain a pantry.
I like the island, but I don't think the size drawn will work. I have a 3' x 5' island/work table, which was converted from a marble-topped dining table ($100 on craigslist ;). We added a cabinet on the working side, and use a bench for seating on the long side, with one swing out seat on each short side. The kitchen also has narrow aisles--narrower than NKBA recs--but it works for us. I do all my kneading and dough-rollling on the island, and it's great for cooling cooky sheets straight from the oven. I have a long baking/buffet counter where you have the stair 'wall', so I have more space at shoulder level, but in my kitchen that aisle is also a traffic aisle to another room. You could squeeze the same size island in, and keep the stairwell open to keep the illusion of space at shoulder level. I drew in stacked upper cabinets for extra storage of baking staples, but if the free-standing cab is not too deep, it might work in that spot. The only thing I really don't like in this plan, is the range in the traffic aisle.
My original hand-drawn lay-out, adjusted with changes:
artistsharonva, great idea!mama goose_gw zn6OH
5 years agolast modified: 5 years agoHere's an in-progress pic that shows the size of the island, compared to the aisles. There is now a vintage cast iron swing-out seat on the end facing the camera, and the small table is in the new addition. (I know, to some people this would be the 'before' pic, but I love my old-fashioned kitchen.)
Table, as purchased:
After cabinet and shelves were added, before doors were attached.
Years later, modified shelves and added one seat swing-out seat (ebay $90ea :) on each short side (junk has been relocated).
Barb Williams
5 years agoartistsharonva
5 years ago
sena01
5 years agolast modified: 5 years agoI used some of the great ideas of the previous posters (moved the porch door to the area where you now have the peninsula and extended the wall on the garage side) and came up with this. Each square is 1 ft.
I have a 12" wide tall pullout b/w the front wall and the fridge. Size of the cabs on the other side of the fridge depends on how wide a coat cab you'd need and how narrow an opening b/w the coat closet and the bedroom wall you'd be fine with.
On the porch wall, I have a 15" wide cab b/w the range and the wall and a 36" corner cab plus 1 ft deep cab facing the stairs.
I think peninsula can be a little longer than the current one. After the 36" corner I have 18" wide drawers, 30" sink cab and the DW.
I hope this may spark some more ideas.
Edited to correct feet/inch confusion (may still have some more though :-))
Barb Williams
5 years agoBarb Williams
5 years agolast modified: 5 years ago
Hello, houzzers.
I am returning with an idea of my own for the kitchen I’ve mentioned here previously. Would love honest criticism and any possible solutions to our issues. I apologize for any redundancies.
Due to our growing project list in our new house, we have decided we would like to recycle/re-use as many elements as possible in this kitchen for now. This means keeping our existing oak cabs and keeping any layout changes as non-invasive as possible.
Issues:
After living here for some time we’ve realized we need a coat/shoe drop off space near the front door. For that reason, we are considering a coat nook right next the the front door and moving the fridge to the other wall.
Because we desire seating for 2-3 in the kitchen (does not have to be luxurious. Just needs to serve a friend for tea or a tired cook) we are considering a peninsula as shown.
We are concerned about the interruption to the work triangle, but we think we may be willing to work through it in order to solve the need for coat and shoe drop off at the front door.
Any comments and ideas are welcome!
mama goose_gw zn6OH
5 years agoBarb Williams
5 years ago
artistsharonva