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jblanknc

Kitchen Design review - maximize views

jblanknc
5 years ago

We are building a new custom house, and I've been pouring through different plans, and working on some preliminary concept drawings from architect. I would like to get some feedback on the below design. Since this is the kitchen forum, I'm specifically looking for feedback on the kitchen, pantry, laundry, keeping room area of this plan.


One of the primary desires we provided to designer was to maximize views from kitchen to front yard, parking area, and rear yard. I know that is asking a lot, but we are building on a large lot, spend a lot of time in kitchen area, and need to keep our eyes on little ones for next 10-15 years.


I have several questions/comments:


1. Placement of sink in relationship to island

2. Extend Pantry wall out to be flush with kitchen/laundry? (simplify elevation)

3. Create access to pantry from Kitchen?

4. Wrong forum, but the front elevation is busy to me - 3 doors? looking for ways to simplify this if nothing else that to cut build costs.








Comments (74)

  • PRO
    Virgil Carter Fine Art
    5 years ago

    "...Doug really accomplished many if not all of our goals. I think he created a fantastic design, given the parameters we gave him..."


    If the criteria for elderly parents and a first-level bedroom had been given to Doug, it would have been included. It could still be added in a revision, if the OP cared to go back to Doug.


    There simply is no comparison in quality between the initial plan posted by the OP and the plan created by Doug.


    The resolution to this situation is so simple: go back to Doug for a revision.

    jblanknc thanked Virgil Carter Fine Art
  • jblanknc
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    I'm on my 3rd cup myself :). Well, let's call it an evolution I guess. We are looking for direction/options before spending more money on design work, or worse, wasting money on a house that does not meet our needs. We love a lot/most about Doug's design. Based on what we gave him, our conversations with him, he has knocked it out of the park as usual - no question. This is not about which design is better, but how to go about accomplishing our goals and being most efficient with our design $$$.


    We like the "spaces" in the other design. The posting here have pointed out that it is not well put together, and I'm assuming very expensive to build. But is it helpful for people more experienced than I, point out specific things that make it a bad design.


    This forum is helpful, because most people don't just say "oh, that's an awful design." But, they give you reasons why. This if very helpful in understanding and confirming why one design is superior to another.


    Now that some time has passed since we first spoke with Doug about the design, we've thought more about certain "needs/wants." So, for example, it is important to have a guest suite on main floor, and we are willing to give up a large playroom upstairs. When we first spoke with Doug, we were thinking of a "in-law" apt in basement or 2nd story of detached garage. We even discussed doing an elevator in 2nd story garage, but ultimately having the guest suite on main floor would be a better situation for us.


    So, posting the designs is more about hearing what people have to say about the designs, thinking about our priorities, and trying to determine how we want to move forward. We would rather "crowd source" as Virgil said, as that is much cheaper:) and will ultimately help us refine our plans so we do not waste anyone else's time.

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  • PRO
    Flo Mangan
    5 years ago
    In addition to the previous input, rework envelop with kitchen, eating and keeping room. Put kitchen on back wall and left side, eating where kitchen is currently and incorporate pantry where keeping room is. A pair of chairs and table with possible bookshelves in that space would creat much more overall use of that real estate. To help you lay this out more effectively, we need some actual measurements. Kitchens are all about details. I would want the kitchen sink and window overlooking the acreage not the busy street. I would work hard to get side entrance to the garages. Remove any tree that will sit within 20’ of house now. You will be removing them layer since construction and storms will be a issue down the road. Hate to do it but experience is my teacher! Much less expensive to do after build. Once we get better measurements of that “footprint” we can be of more assistance.
    jblanknc thanked Flo Mangan
  • jblanknc
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    Flo - thanks for the feedback. Regarding measurements of footprint - are you referring to the lot, or the kitchen area?

  • PRO
    Virgil Carter Fine Art
    5 years ago

    Well...it's your project and your budget, of course.


    But the simple and best solution is to just pay Doug a little more in an appropriate amount which he may request for the time necessary to make the needed changes.


    Your current plan is overly complex and expensive (too large and too expensive, I'll wager), and no one here is going to be able to redesign to any level of quality or budget range by simply taking your existing plan and tinkering with it. That plan is siimply a non-starter.


    You'll save time, money in the long run and have a much superior design by just going back to Doug. Pay him his fair rate and solve your problem once and for all.

    jblanknc thanked Virgil Carter Fine Art
  • jblanknc
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    Thanks Virgil - I value your advice. Doug is extremely talented, and I don't mind going back to him. I just want to be sure I have clear direction myself, so that I do not waste his time. It's extremely helpful to hear what people have to say about different aspects of the design(s).

  • kmg11
    5 years ago

    This forum Is very helpful and I've gained a lot of knowledge as I've tried to read as much as time/life will allow. Being somewhat of a 'lurker' for a short time has truly evolved my way of looking at things on a host of issues.


    While, I truly enjoy looking at house plans and think I have a 'somewhat' good eye-lol ;), it's amazing what I couldn't see prior to finding the good folks and their valuable information/discussions here.


    I think first and foremost, you have to decide exactly what your needs are, then go from there. This can be a process for sure. Reading here has helped me to really re-evaluate mine as well. For instance, we are thinking of building, and I now realize I will have One dining area, that's it, no extra or redundant spaces. Aging in place is a huge concern as well, this is why I asked about your parents. (Been there, done that with my own.) Simple design without lots of expensive corners to drive costs up, another point on my list.


    I have no issue with people coming here having discussions, I'm absolutely all for it! In fact, this is how I've learned what I have and been able to see lots of different points. My concern, is you have spent hard earned money on several plans and that isn't cheap. By all means discuss away, but also have a conversation with yourself and your significant people about your needs and how you live life.

    jblanknc thanked kmg11
  • lyfia
    5 years ago

    Can you post a zoomed in picture of Doug's floorplan - maybe it will help if we can see it better too so we can compare the two for you so you can learn why one is better than the other.

  • jblanknc
    Original Author
    5 years ago


  • PRO
    Virgil Carter Fine Art
    5 years ago

    It's a comparison between an apple and an orange. The OP changed the design requirments, and so any comparison between the two different designs means little.

  • jblanknc
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    What is OP?

  • damiarain
    5 years ago

    Original Poster - in this instance, you =)

  • jblanknc
    Original Author
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Original Poster - then i'm guilty:) yes - evolved I like to think. We originally thought the guest suite could go in basement or 2nd story of garage. However, after thinking about parents inability to do stairs, option of doing an elevator, it is best for us to go with guest suite on main floor - cost, access to laundry, kitchen, garage, etc...

  • lyfia
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Virgil - I disagree. Yes there are rooms that don't exist in one vs. the other, but if you look at the common rooms especially now that I can see it there are some very clear differences even within the rooms themselves. I think part of this exercise is to help posters to understand why people say much better and go with that one is by explaining these things further. This way when they do work with an architect they can evaluate the plans themselves much better and also see the value the architect brings to the table.

    For example in Doug's version the owners suite is private and with plenty of natural light and the closet is not 300 miles from the bedroom and obviously the odd stair placement is not there wasting valuable space.

    The family/living room also has more light with windows on two sides and more walls to allow for better furniture placement and I also think it may mean the space will live larger due to not all furniture having to float.

    The mudroom entry has more space for storage and you're not walking in and seeing straight into a closet/wall. The view is into the house. More welcoming.

    In Doug's version there are no odd hallways that seems to lead to nowhere and have no discernible function like the one in the original with the hallway and door by the dining room and on the upstairs floorplan on the right.

    The windows and corner placements in Doug's designs allows more views out front and back from the kitchen. There are no stairs blocking the view out to the pool and it has windows along most a the walls. There is still one corner there, but it is just a few steps to be able to see around it. The other design had more than one corner, stairs and just walls with no windows blocking the views.

    Unfortunately in both there is a long distance to the dining room from the kitchen, although Doug's is much closer. I'm not a formal dining type user so this may be something that is desired for those that do. At least in Doug's it requires a little less navigating.

    I'd ask Doug to modify the things you've identified and I'd also add that if he could add a bathroom with outdoor easy access to the pool area I think you'd appreciate that in the long run. Wet kids can go in through there and pool guests don't need to traipse through the house to get to the bathroom or walk all around the house to go in through the foyer to use the powder room.

    I'm sure there are other things that could be pointed out too as to why they work better, but I'm done with lunch so need to get back to work.

    jblanknc thanked lyfia
  • PRO
    Virgil Carter Fine Art
    5 years ago

    Lyfia, thank you for pointing out some of the strengths of Doug's design so that they cannot be missed.


    I think it makes the point about the overall strength of Doug's design, don't you?


    But I understand...if one is not adept at comparing and analysising architectural designs, then some elementary critique may be helpful. Thank you.

  • laurafhallen
    5 years ago

    I would put the kid's playroom in the basement, if I were you. Noise seems to travel less easily from down than from upstairs.

    I agree with the universal design idea on the guest bath, for sure.

    I think having the guest bedroom where you have it is okay, especially for your purposes.

    I would take out as many angles as I could. The elevation is also very busy. You don't need all that. Sometimes simple is best. Plant some nice plants.

    Take out the window in your closet. It's not that big and you will lose a lot of space with it there.

    Make your kitchen perfect. You will not regret that.

    I think having the laundry room where you have it is fine, but you might want to have an exterior entrance to it, so it can be a "mudroom". I know I wanted my boys to strip immediately on entering the house sometimes.


    jblanknc thanked laurafhallen
  • jblanknc
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    Lyfia - very helpful in pointing out many of the differences between the designs.

    I know there is an art to much of this, and that is a skill I lack. I'm a programmer - typical type "A" guy, so I tend to get stuck in the mud with drawing simple boxes. Its extremely helpful to hear someone go through the plan and point out things that I didn't "see." Thanks for your time.


    LaurafHallen - play room in basement makes good sense. I see that area migrating to a teenage hangout as they age. Angles & Elevation- yes, my thoughts exactly. Kitchen - after we get the overall plan refined/decided, I'll be back with Kitchen questions:). Laundry - yeah, I know some of first comments were to move, and I realize a growing trend is to have laundry in closer to bedrooms, but I prefer near entry where dirty/wet clothes, kids, dogs are coming in. Thanks for taking the time offer your thoughts

  • PRO
    Flo Mangan
    5 years ago

    I put together this rough sketch to reverse the kitchen. I just used a "generic" envelop of space, but worth considering. Better flow and better use of space.

    layouts · More Info
    I squared off back wall to gain some space for kitchen. I stole a small amount of space from the laundry wall to get a deeper "pantry" wall with a pull out feature. A corner built-in for some dishes and decorative pieces. Round table and 4 chairs. Island with round end for a few stools. Microwave under island type. Of course, without measurements, can't be sure, but the views with this layout would be superior to my mind for your space and you would gain some space in that large open space you now have the in layout. Squaring off that back wall, reduces the "in and out" issue and make construction less expensive. Just to give you some other "options".

  • shead
    5 years ago

    I would not want my Family Room area, which is the prominent living area of your plan, to be the place that the kids went to play if I had company over. I'd want all that loudness somewhere else. I've got 4 kids, though, and if friends were over, it would sound like a circus. I definitely think a rec room in the basement would be the best for those occasions. Also, as a guest in someone's home, I'd want to be able to sit comfortably in the living area rather than be relegated to staying around the dining table once dinner was over. However, those are just my own personal preferences.

    After seeing both floor plans you've posted, I think neither of them are really what you want or need and neither make the best use of your land space or your square footage.

    Have you thought about doing a one story house instead of 2 story? It's generally less expensive to go up instead of out but in your case, if you plan on staying in this house long-term, a one level house may make better sense.

  • lyfia
    5 years ago

    jblanknc - glad it helped. There are lots more, but hopefully it will get you started in maybe seeing some of these things yourself too.


    Virgil I agree that Doug's design is miles ahead of what was originally posted and have never disputed that, just couldn't read the first post of it (too small on my small screen).


    I think many posters, who bring stock/draftsman plans to the forum, just look at the outside and see if the front elevation appeals to them and then look at the rooms and see they have them and their somewhat relationship to others and if that seems ok they are good with it. I think it is more helpful to point out those things that really make a difference so a poster can see why it is better even though the rooms might not all be the same. It will allow whomever posted to get better at evaluating a plan and may realize that an architect could bring a lot of value to the project vs. just add cost. I'm not sure just a general get an architect without why is very useful when someone lacks the understanding which I often see nowadays on the forum. Seems a shift that has happened in the last few years.





  • jblanknc
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    Flo - I like that sketch, and I think I see what you are trying to accomplish. Walk in pantry would be preferable, but I realize you are working within the envelop from my designs. Love the little corner shelf for dishes.


    shead -

    FAMILY ROOM - yes. currently we have guest/friends with children over 2 times a month - so 6-10 kids running around and it is hard to talk with that craziness as we do not have a playroom. A finished basement playroom/den should provide that. KEEPING ROOM - sometimes it's nice to be off in a corner having a more private or quite conversation with a friend. we like the idea of kitchen area being separate from Family Room, but still having a small 2-3 person sitting area somewhere.

    ONE/TWO STORY - 2 thoughts - I know it sounds crazy, but even with the amount of land we have, due to the terrain, in order to preserve some relatively flat area for yard, building up will help preserve yard. Secondly, to help with budge

    FLOOR PLANS - neither are what we want or need - I'm open to ideas on how we can better refine our wants/needs. What are your thoughts on this?


    lyfia - the more people point out why a design is good or bad, the better. Also, hearing and being offered advice helps refine direction. For example, I understand many of the reasons why Doug's design is good - less corners, simplified roof line and exterior envelop, etc..


    Here are the 2 plans focused in on the kitchen, dining, pantry, laundry areas with dimensions. I'm anxious to hear what people have to say, and what you guys come up with in addition to what some have already sketched out.

    INTERESTING - the number of comments on how "FAR" the dining room is from the kitchen in the 1st plan - it's basically the difference of a 4 ft hall/corridor. I agree the corner with the entrance to porch could go away, but I'm surprised people see the differences between these two as so stark. I see benefits of both - Hallway provides 2nd from Family Room/foyer without going through Dining room. This is a negative?



  • PRO
    Virgil Carter Fine Art
    5 years ago

    "...(corridor) This is a negative?..."


    Well...Besides being poor design, and simply unnecessary space solely for circulation, you can think of the corridor this way: It's 4-feet wide and approximately 28-feet long, from the kitchen to the back door.


    4 X 28 = 112 SF X $200/sf = $22,400 for the corridor. Now, I'll admit, SF prices are not a good estimating tool, but is that corridor worth that much to you? Would you rather have that corridor or $22,400 worth of value elsewhere in the house? Or $22,400 savings in your pocket?


    Your decision. But your architect (one of them) knows the answer.

    jblanknc thanked Virgil Carter Fine Art
  • jblanknc
    Original Author
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    $22,400 - now that is SPEAKING to me. U R Speaking my language Virgil!!!! I do NOT like wasting money for sure, and I do have to remind myself that budget is paramount.


  • jblanknc
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    For completeness, I looked at entire plans. sorry, I'm too type A to NOT do this:) This is not exact, and not meant to be. Plan 1 - has about 80' of corridor, Doug's plan about 53'. So, about 27' differences on first floor.

  • bpath
    5 years ago

    In ARG's layout, the hearth room is actually a walkway from anywhere to the stairs, which drop in the kitchen, not at the back of the house, and from the kitchen to the front door and dining room. It can be hard to place furniture in such a space. One thing (one) I like about the other layout is that the hearth room is a cozier space. See if Doug can do something about that space.

    jblanknc thanked bpath
  • my_four_sons
    5 years ago

    I’m stuck on the master bath in the first option, it’s hard to tell dimensions, but that shower seems proportionally small. It’s the same size as the toilet area! I want way more room in my shower than my toilet. And there’s so much wasted space, which in a bathroom is particularly problematic. That whole space needs a major do over.

    jblanknc thanked my_four_sons
  • kmg11
    5 years ago

    I'm not sure if it's been said or I missed it, but how many children do you have or wanting to have? There's a difference of bedrooms in the plans. First I would decide exactly how many you need and if there will be any sharing of them. Also, with the guest room/parents room this definitely would be placed on the first floor with an accessible bathroom very close by. This room could double as something else when not in use. In ARG's plan you have a small office while the other plan you do not. If you need an office, this guest room could double as that. Do you ever foresee any of the elderly parents being there permanently? You could make two master suites, one on first floor for elderly parents and yours on the second floor. Just a thought.

    The same with decision on bathrooms, how many do you really need? Can the children share one? This would help on costs.

    If you are having a basement, I agree to put the rec/play room there. You won't feel the vibration of their play as much!

    Dining spaces, again how man do you truly need? Can a small sitting area double as a small dining area? A cozy breakfast sized table with a couple of club chairs? This would cut down on square footage. Will your island have seating as well? All of these areas are repeating the same function.

    Fireplaces-are you sticking with one?

    These are all questions you will have to answer and decide on before going with a plan,- hopefully this helps.

    Oh and yes 100% agree on eliminating extra corners or bump outs and wasted space!

    I do like the separation the stairs give between your rooms!


  • jblanknc
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    my_four_sons - I think both rooms are about a 4x6. I'm not a fan of wasted space, so maybe things can be reworked and even fit a powder room in that closet area.

  • jblanknc
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    kmg11 - we have 3 children - 2,5,7. No plans for more. We are thinking for next 5-10 years, a boys room and girls room upstairs and possibly a play room or open loft area, and 1 or 2 baths. As teen years approach a basement bedroom would be workable.

    DINING - not planning on island being a significant eating area. We use our 4' round table now for 70% of meals with immediate family, and larger dining table for larger gatherings. Wife prefers 4' round table over eating at island.

    FIREPLACE - at least one, and like it in keeping room area if we stick with 1.

    OTHER - no need/desire for vaulting ceilings or 10' ceilings, or 2 story ceilings. It is drawn on 1st plan, but we see this as another area to save $$$. maybe 9' ceiling throughout - I believe this is common?

  • Architectrunnerguy
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    If nothing else it's always interesting seeing two solutions for the same site and family although the target house size and parents bedroom criteria were different in the two here.

    It's something rare outside of a design schools studio.

  • shead
    5 years ago

    If you're trying to stay within 3000-3200 sf split among 2 floors, your rooms are going to be on the small side with as many rooms and as many walls as you have. The main floor in my last house was 3100 sf and didn't have nearly the #of rooms. I can't imagine trying to fit it all in. Unfortunately, on paper, there can be an illusion that things are bigger than they are so keep that in mind. I think for your house to be well-proportioned with the rooms that you want, you need to be more in the 4000 sf range. It's not that what you want can't be done, but the word "cozy" will definitely apply to most of the rooms.

    That being said, you said you preferred to not have open concept with the living areas. Are you totally opposed to the kitchen and dining room being open concept with a separation to the living space? That would save a lot of space versus two separate dining areas. In our last kitchen, we had a large island with counter height seating on one end so that the island could function as a large serving area when hosting parties or as a "table" for just our family. Our island was about 10' x 4.5'.

    Lastly, do you need the main level "in-law suite" now or are parents still able to climb stairs? If not, maybe you could design the house in such a way that you could later add on a main level in-law suite, if necessary.

    Good luck!

  • jblanknc
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    Played around with this some over the weekend. SQ still roughly the same.


  • lizziesma
    5 years ago

    What I liked about Doug's plan was the elimination of all the gabledygook.

    jblanknc thanked lizziesma
  • PRO
    Sina Sadeddin Architectural Design
    5 years ago

    Still a bad plan IMO

  • jblanknc
    Original Author
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    shead - thanks for the insight to sq ft. There are some rooms I feel good about, other I do not. I would appreciate any insight others have.

    MASTER, DINING, BREAKFAST, FAMILY ROOM - I've measured other peoples homes, and I think we are okay with these sizes. 15x16 master, 8x8 master closet, just "big enough" master bath (no tub). Family Room is 20x21, the Dining room 12x15 is 2 feet larger on both dimensions that where we are now. Breakfast area - 8x10 - could be snug for our 48" round table.

    KITCHEN - this is my question mark - is this kitchen not proportional? The island is 3x6, the stove wall is 10', and the sink wall is about 12-14' I believe. Plus there maybe space by the stairs for cabinets/storage, etc...

    PANTRY / LAUNDRY - I thought of making the pantry 6x6 and expanding the laundry into the 6x6 space turning the laundry into an L shape. just a thought

    FOYER, CORRIDORS - foyer is 8x11, and most of the corridor/halls are 4' wide.

    So, now that you have some more information, does that make a difference? Do you think these rooms are out of porportion?

    DINING ROOM - we have considered that, but still on the list for now. Wife likes the separation of formal and informal eating areas.

    IN-LAWS - they cannot do stair now.

  • jblanknc
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    Ma In Michigan - and Sina Sadeddin - thanks for taking the time to reply.

  • renee kent
    5 years ago

    I'm not a professional at all. The exterior is easier to view than the interior and it doesn't look good. The exterior of the building doesn't look like something an architect would design. The outside of the building is choppy, uninviting. Either change architects or rethink the whole concept and end "beating a dead horse". If the exterior appearance is good from all angles it's possible the interior could be worked out easily.

    jblanknc thanked renee kent
  • shead
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    This version does look better but there are still lots of areas that are used inefficiently. I will list some of them at length but I think I think you should go back to the drawing board with whichever architect you choose to go with to create an interior and exterior that is efficient with space and money and that also provides you with the vision you desire.

    Some notable items that I feel like should be addressed are:

    1) Family Dining/Keeping Room - still choppy with the jigs and jogs. Consider squaring up the walls for one larger rectangular space.

    2) Porch - Make sure that your Family Dining wall lines up with your porch so that you can put a sliding door in the FD area for easier access from kitchen to porch (think running back and forth with platters from the grill). You might even consider shifting the entire FD/KR area to the left and move the guest bedroom and bathroom into the KR space.

    3) You mentioned a pool might be in your future - You need a bathroom near a rear entry. My BIL has a pool with a bathroom just inside their back door and it keeps all the kids and the water from all over the house.

    4) You need a larger island. A 4-5'x8-9' would be more proportional to your kitchen.

    5) Storage for mops, vacuum cleaners, etc. - where do you plan to put those items?

    6) Consider a larger master closet. DH and I each have our own closets the size of yours. We DO like ours accessible by the bathroom, though, versus from the bedroom.

    7) I really don't like how you've got the guest bedroom/bathroom configured.

    8) Where's the garage?

    9) Family Room fireplace - shift fireplace to the right so that you have a balance of bookshelves on each side. Your current drawing makes my symmetrical OCD go haywire :)

    jblanknc thanked shead
  • jblanknc
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    renee kent - a quick edit of exterior, reflecting the changes I made to interior.


    I'm not opposed going to back to ARG for a revision, but figured it best to refine our wants/needs before we do. I do not want to waste his time or our money. This forum is helpful - especially when people point out specific issues.



  • just_janni
    5 years ago

    There's a scale that's missing in this rendering. the garage section looks fine. the right half of the house portion look "off". Maybe the gable is too small, or the right hand wing section too long / boring - or some combination of the 2 - but it's lacking. It looks like so many people who fall in love with Houzz pics for "inspiration" and then get a draftsman to draw something up and it's "close" but it never has the unspoken quality of the original design. Kinda how tract developments take the current "trend" (that was usually started by a talented design professional) and then generic it up for ease of building / cheap to build for the masses. They never look right.

    I am still kinda stunned why you are not back to using a trained professional instead of manipulating a design program.


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  • jblanknc
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    Just_janni - thanks for your reply. i'm obviously not a artist, architect, nor do I claim to be. My edit was simply to convey an exterior to match changes to the interior. Some had commented on the choppiness/business of the exterior, so i quickly put this together so I could visualize it.

  • Suru
    5 years ago

    jblanknc - just my 2 cents regarding your most recent exterior. IMO, what looks odd is you have a shed dormer and a gable dormer right next to each other on the main area of the house. I think the exterior would look better if you chose one type of dormer - shed or gable and not try to mix them.

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  • jblanknc
    Original Author
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    UPDATED DESIGN FROM ARG - Doug updated his plan with the changes we requested.

    QUESTION - at this point should I start a new thread with Doug's design below so that we can move forward?

  • shead
    5 years ago

    Definitely much better than the others! The only glaring thing I can suggest is to widen the dining doorway that attaches to the foyer. I’d eliminate the cased opening where the foyer enters the living room to allow the dining doorway to be widened.

    The kitchen is going to be tight on where you place your appliances with the sink in front of the window. Where will the refrigerator go? Also, you’ll be limited to a range vs rangetop/double oven. I hate that you lost that shorter run of cabinets adjacent to the stairwell in this version because that could’ve been a spot for ovens and/or fridge.

    But, again, overall this plan is much better, IMO.

    jblanknc thanked shead
  • jblanknc
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    shead - thanks for the feedback. Concerning the kitchen - yeah, that extra wall adjacent to staircase would have provided some good storage. Hopefully others here on the forum will have some ideas. My wife would like a double wall oven, but we could do one of those ranges that have the double oven I guess as a alternate.

    In our current house, we have a 23.5 linear foot "L" Shaped kitchen, a 55" wide pantry on another wall, and a 70" wide butlers panty/hutch (stores dishes, serving ware, and other large appliances). We have about 16 feet of countertop space, and about 10' of upper cabinets (not counting above fridge). Our goal/wish would be to not loose any storage or countertop space. I don't think we are with Doug's design from rough calculations given the island and pantry.


  • shead
    5 years ago

    Take some graph paper and sketch out your kitchen using Doug's measurements. Sometimes just because you have the same length of cabinetry doesn't mean that it'll function the same depending on how it's divided (one run vs. 2 equal size runs vs 1 long run and 1 short run, etc.). Your fridge will definitely have to go at the end of your sink wall as you'll have no space leftover if you crowd the short wall with your fridge and stove.

    You might consider converting the triple window into two separate windows and put your range between the windows. Then you could put your sink in the island (not ideal with being directly across from the range, I know, but that configuration works in my BIL's house. Then you'd have space on the short wall for your fridge and upper/lower cabinetry. If you sketch everything out, it'll help you to see what works/doesn't work before finalizing the floor plan.

    Good luck!

  • PRO
    Virgil Carter Fine Art
    5 years ago

    Greatly improved--congratulations!


    New thread: yes!

  • lyfia
    5 years ago

    Yes to new thread.


    Looks like you are missing some mudroom space in the new design. Is that something you want?

  • jblanknc
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    Lyfia - no, we would like a mudroom, mud hallway, etc... i think it is part of the laundry in this design.