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bsaucoin

Full overlay cabinet doors hit each other/won't close properly

bsaucoin
5 years ago

We installed Kraftmaid full overlay cabinets with soft close adjustable hinges in our newly renovated kitchen less than a year ago. We love the look and, until now, the function of the cabinets. Just recently, however, two of our double door cabinets began to hit each other/not close properly. I can force the doors closed, but when they "soft close", one door sits ontop of the other. Back when they were installed, I inquired about the gap between the double doors - it seemed very small to me and I was concerned that the doors would begin to rub or hit each other over time. But I was told that the six-way adjustable hinges would allow for adjustments to deal with just this issue. Now there is no gap at all, in fact the doors overlap. When I tried to adjust the hinges to address this recent issue, however, I discovered that they are already adjusted all the way "out". Called KraftMaid who said they just make the cabinets, and are not responsible after installation. Called Lowes (where we purchased them) and pretty much got the same answer. Had a cabinet "handyman" come out and take a look and he told me what I already know - the adjustable hinges do not have the ability to adjust any further. He measured and said that the overlap issue is about 1/8 inch. He suggested shaving down the cabinet doors - but as they are nicely finished with a beveld edge this would require reshaping and refinishing. Ugh. Any advice? KraftMaid indicated that if there was something wrong with the doors, they MIGHT be able to send replacement doors. But would that help here? How is it possible that there is not enough space to play with in either of these cases? Please - any advice is appreciated.






Comments (53)

  • crcollins1_gw
    5 years ago

    No way I'd cut down the doors. You have enough "play" between the other doors that I think it's just a matter of getting them all moving in the direction you need them to. Adjusting cabinet doors with those 6-way hinges has to be the most tedious, annoying job in the universe. I bet your cabinet guy just didn't want to fool with it.

    bsaucoin thanked crcollins1_gw
  • bsaucoin
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    Thank you to everyone who has responded so far. I think I am not making myself clear - the six-way adjustable hinges will not adjust any further in the direction necessary to create more of a gap between the two doors. The screw that is used to adjust left/right is adjusted as far as it can go "out" or away from where the two doors meet. I am unable to turn the screw any further. So while there is plenty of room to move the door over, there is no way to take advantage of that room becuase the screw is already at the outter limit of its adjustability.


    The screws on the adjustable hinges don't just turn indefinately. They have a right and a left limit (or an up or down limit or an in or out limit, depending on which of the three screws you are trying to adjust), and in this case, the screw that adjusts right and left is already adjusted to its outer limit.


    In this photo of the hinge, I have circled the screw that adjusts left and right, and the arrow is the direction that I would need to turn the screw in order to move the door to make more of a gap, but the screw wont turn in that direction becuase it is already at the outer limit of its adjustability.



    What can I do?

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  • PRO
    HALLETT & Co.
    5 years ago

    After exhausting all options, I would CAREFULLY remove the wood just behind the hinge. Use a utility knife to score the side of the stile with the hinge in place, then with a very sharp chisel remove 1/16th from both sides. The hinge will cover the damage. Obviously you shouldn't have to do this but I think something got wacky on the factory floor that day (Friday after lunch?)

    bsaucoin thanked HALLETT & Co.
  • PRO
    Debbi Washburn
    5 years ago

    You have 3 options - first - it looks like the cabinets are 30" wide and there are 15" wide ones next to it. The doors on the 15" wide cabinet are 14 5/8 wide while the ones are the 30" cabinet are 14 3/4 wide - try switching them and see if theat work ( cause you can adjust the 15 " one over as well ) OR do what the Bryce and Hallett recommend OR speak with Kraftmaid and ask if they would consider a replacement door at the smaller size smaller size...that 1/8" difference of the door form a 15" wide wall cabinet vs a 30" wall cabinet would make all the difference..

    Good luck and let all of us know how you make out!

    bsaucoin thanked Debbi Washburn
  • Hillside House
    5 years ago

    Have you adjusted the doors to the right and left of it?

    bsaucoin thanked Hillside House
  • Judy Mishkin
    5 years ago

    if you ordered x sized cabinet boxes and the doors to go with them, and the doors won't close because they are too large for the cabinet box, that sounds like a manufacturing issue to me.

    bsaucoin thanked Judy Mishkin
  • chispa
    5 years ago

    Are there better quality hinges available?

    Would it make sense to replace the hinges, at least in the doors that are causing problems.

    bsaucoin thanked chispa
  • Oliviag
    5 years ago
    I'd call in the rep, first. don't do any more adjusting on your own...

    an fyi, especially of you are in a humid climate, a whole house dehumidifier can help wood issues, and your sleep and health.
    bsaucoin thanked Oliviag
  • lisadlu16
    5 years ago

    Just want to say I love your wood choice! Nice!

    bsaucoin thanked lisadlu16
  • Boxerpal
    5 years ago

    I love your cabinets, so very beautiful.


    I would reach out to Kraftmaid and speak to someone directly Northeastern Ohio campus at 1-888-562-7744. I am sure you are not the first and only person this has happened to. I imagine that over time all cabinetry has some issues that need to be addressed. Perhaps they can help you make them close properly again.



    bsaucoin thanked Boxerpal
  • ci_lantro
    5 years ago

    Per Debbi Washburn:


    You have 3 options - first - it looks like the cabinets are 30" wide and there are 15" wide ones next to it. The doors on the 15" wide cabinet are 14 5/8 wide while the ones are the 30" cabinet are 14 3/4 wide - try switching them and see if theat work ( cause you can adjust the 15 " one over as well )


    So, just maybe the doors got mixed up and installed on the wrong cabinets at the get-go?? Would be really easy to get them mixed up if there is only 1/8" difference in width.


    Measure them carefully and see if you do have slightly different sized doors. I would eliminate this possibility first.





    bsaucoin thanked ci_lantro
  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC
    5 years ago

    Your cabinets are "racked" meaning they are being pulled out of square because they were improperly installed. The doors are fine. You bring the wall to the cabinet with shims, you do not bring the cabinet to a crooked wall. Put a level on 'em, please.

    bsaucoin thanked Joseph Corlett, LLC
  • bsaucoin
    Original Author
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Debbie Washburn and ci_lantro: What an interesting suggestion. I will carefully measure those adjacent doors tonight. I think the cabinets came with the doors already attached (although I could be wrong). But I do remember my contrator moving a few of the doors from one cabinet to the another for some reason.

    It wouldn't help with the second cabinet, however, which is on the other side of the kitchen and which does not have other similar sized cabinets next to it (or anywhere in the kitchen).

    On that note, does anyone know where I can find the KraftMaid specs on the exact size those cabeint doors are SUPPOSED to be? The spec book lists the cabinets, but not the actual door sizes/measurments for various styles.

    The cabinets that are having door trouble are the following:

    W3642BUTT

    W3342BUTT

    And the adjacent cabinets that are not having trouble are the following:

    W1842R

    W1842L

    And the one other wall cabinet that is not having trouble is the following:

    W3042BUTT

    All the cabinet doors are full overlay slab doors. I have pasted the design with all the cabinet types below.

    Thanks to everyone who has responded. I appreciate any and all advice.


  • bsaucoin
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    oops - it was Debbie Washburn who made the original suggestion - thank you so much!

  • PRO
    Kristin Petro Interiors, Inc.
    5 years ago

    Are these solid wood slab doors or are they a veneer?

    bsaucoin thanked Kristin Petro Interiors, Inc.
  • PRO
    Jeffrey R. Grenz, General Contractor
    5 years ago

    This is the responsibility of the installer. The swapped doors, possible racking (install) need to be corrected. If the original installer won't return, find another knowledgeable Kraftmaid installer to repair. Its not rocket science, but not all handymen understand cabinets.

    bsaucoin thanked Jeffrey R. Grenz, General Contractor
  • bsaucoin
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    I am pretty certain they are solid wood. And they have been installed for less than a year.


    As an update, the woman who did the design at Lowes actually reached out to KraftMaid on our behalf, and they are offering to send replacement doors. Will this solve our problem? And, if our contractor is not available (I won't get into it here, but getting him to come back out to our house to install is a can of worms I would rather not open) - who should I hire to install them? Maybe Lowes can hook us up (I am willing to pay for the reinstall)? Is that a good idea?


    I still would very much like to know the intended, original, actual, accurate measurement of each door. I am planning on asking Lowes/KraftMaid but if anyone knows where to find these specs please let me know (the Lowes KraftMaid Spec Book does not incude these measurements for all the various door styles).


    Thank you all again.

  • bsaucoin
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    Joseph Corlett - I will gladly put a level on them and let you know what I find out. I am guessing I should do it at various points along the cabinet - inside the bottom of the cabinet on the lowest "shelf" (actually the bottom of the cabinet) as well as along the outer edge of the cabinet (left and right), should I also place it on the outside and top of the doors? I'll do this when I get home tonight (as well as measuring the various doors.)


    "Racked". That could describe more than just my cabinets at this point :)

  • PRO
    Jeffrey R. Grenz, General Contractor
    5 years ago

    "The woman who did the design" should be your source of detailed cabinet knowledge, door sizes vs each box, etc.

  • PRO
    Kristin Petro Interiors, Inc.
    5 years ago

    A solid wood slab door is prone to warping. Typically, solid wood doors are MDF with a veneer to avoid this problem. I don't know if this is what is causing your problem. I also suspect your cabinets are racked.

  • Hillside House
    5 years ago

    If the cabinet was racked, wouldn’t the doors have had issues for the past year, and not just recently?

    bsaucoin thanked Hillside House
  • PRO
    Debbi Washburn
    5 years ago

    I spoke with my Kraftmaid rep today and he said to hang in there until the heating season ( drier air ) and see what happens before going crazy . We have an issue with a couple of doors here and he is holding off getting a replacement since it is a new display and hasn't acclimated yet. He also said to be sure to contact your design with the photos you posted so he/she can reach out to their rep now about it and they will work on a resolve.

    The result for our issue here will be to reorder one of the doors as a "non-butt" door- those are that 1/8" smaller I had discussed previously. He said the same would work for you.

    So hang in there, it will get fixed...in due time - unless swapping the doors works for you on that one side. I think on the other side, if they don't shrink back just have Kraftmaid replace the door.

    Here is a size chart for your doors....


    Good luck!!!!


    bsaucoin thanked Debbi Washburn
  • bsaucoin
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    Debbi Washburn - thanks so much. I am gathering from your messages that "BUTT" somehow means that the doors are 1/8" larger, is that correct? And do you know why that is? What does BUTT mean?


    I am in communication with KraftMaid and will follow your advice, in addition to measuring the doors and checking with a level.


    We also just put a powerful dehumidifier in the kitchen to see if that would make any difference.


    Regardless, we can't go through this every year - we will have to find a more permanent solution at some point even if the dehumidifier works this time.


    Thanks again to everyone. I knew there must be some inforamtion out there that could help me figure this out!


    I welcome additional ideas and suggestions from anyone who has delt with this issue, especialy with KraftMaid cabinets.

  • PRO
    Debbi Washburn
    5 years ago

    A "butt" door cabinet is a 2 door cabinet where the doors are slightly larger so that you have a very small gap between the 2 in the center.

    You shouldn't have to go through this every year ( if there is extreme weather for an extended period of time then maybe ) Usually the doors will acclimate. They are solid wood doors and will shrink and swell throughout the seasons. If we have an extremely cold winter it will be very dry and then you would see larger gaps between your doors.

    This type of activity should slow as your cabinets age.

    bsaucoin thanked Debbi Washburn
  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC
    5 years ago

    "As an update, the woman who did the design at Lowes actually reached out to KraftMaid on our behalf, and they are offering to send replacement doors. Will this solve our problem?"


    "And, if our contractor is not available (I won't get into it here, but getting him to come back out to our house to install is a can of worms I would rather not open) - who should I hire to install them?"


    You cannot know the answer to either of these questions without ascertaining if this is installer error or not. If the cabinets are racked, tell your lawyer to tell your contractor he's coming back at no charge.


    " Maybe Lowes can hook us up (I am willing to pay for the reinstall)? Is that a good idea?"


    It may be. You'll probably have a faster more inexpensive time hiring someone new to fix these mistakes.

  • bsaucoin
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    Debbie Washburn - where did you get that size chart? I don’t see my cabinets listed (W3642BUTT and W3342BUTT) and wanted to double check the exact size those doors are supposed to be along with the sizes for “non-BUTT” doors for the same size cabinets. Here are the measurements of my actual cabinet doors:


    W3642BUTT: 17 13/16 inches (both doors)


    W1842L (non-butt): 17 3/4 inches

    W1842R (non-butt): 17 11/16 inches


    W3342BUTT: 16 3/8 inches (both doors)


    Joseph Corleft - I put a level on the cabinets (bottom and sides, front of doors) and they are completely level. Whew. Does that mean they are not “racked”?

  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC
    5 years ago

    Put the level on the front of the cabinets, not the doors, please.

  • tatts
    5 years ago

    Did you measure the doors? Do it now while you're checking the level.

  • bsaucoin
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    yes, I put the levels on the front of the cabinets. The measurements are as follows:


    W3642BUTT: 17 13/16 inches (both doors) doors hit each other

    W1842L (non-butt): 17 12/16 inches

    W1842R (non-butt): 17 11/16 inches

    W3342BUTT: 16 12/16 inches (both doors) doors hit each other

  • PRO
    Debbi Washburn
    5 years ago

    The chart is from Kraftmaids spec book - the model numbers listed there are for the doors - so the RD3642 shows you the size the door should be ( in standard humidity levels ) for your W3642 cabinet...So it is definite that the doors have swelled - considering you did not have this problem to begin with. See if using the dehumidifier works... otherwise you can get replacements but this is the nature of wood.... and could possibly happen again with new doors... Once they acclimate you should be ok....

  • PRO
    Debbi Washburn
    5 years ago

    Also It is fairly easy to change a door...

  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC
    5 years ago

    No new doors, please. Bryce Jones ^ has the right idea. I'd hot melt a jig out of wood scraps and cut perfect mortises with a laminate trimmer with a straight bit. Half a day tops.


    Very little risk, no shipping, no "But-the-new-doors-don't-match" either.

  • User
    5 years ago

    Do you practice the required humidity control in your home? All cabinet, flooring, and furniture warranties mandate that the humidity in your home stay within a fairly standard 30-50% range in order for the warranties to be valid. That minimized the normal dwelling and shrinking of wood, and keeps it more stable.


    Solid wood foors are not a great choice gor skab doors for this very reason. Veneer would have been the better choice. Especially if you don’t maintain the required humidity range.

  • bsaucoin
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    Update: KraftMaid is now offering to send a “special hinge” that will be installed on one of the two cabinet doors to “prevent rubbing“. I asked for more details but they said they were “not permitted to share details regarding the hinge.”


    Has anyone else heard about this or know what they are referring to? I asked them to send the hinges.


    I also asked for the spec spec sheet for slab door measurements (as that info is not in the spec book available online” but they said they were not permitted to share that, either. If anyone has a pdf of the spec sheet for KraftMaid slab door measurements that they are willing to share I would appreciate it. Debbi Washburn shared some measurements (thanks, Debbi!) but not all.


    Finally, yes, we control humidity in our home. And it is only two cabinets that are having trouble. Many other two door wall cabinets are operating just fine. I would think that if it was just a humidity issue, we would be having problems with more cabinets. As I mentioed, there were issues with rubbing when these cabinets were first installed, so we adjusted the hinges all the way out. I am beginning to think that the doors were just cut slightly too large or that there was some other manufacturing issue - but we will try the new hinge and also take Debbi’s advice and be patient before taking any more drastic action.


    Its disappointing to have spent so much time, energy and money on this kitchen and then to have theas little annoying issues.


    Thanks again to everyone or your help.

  • PRO
    Taylor's Cabinets & Interiors
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    All you have to do is replace the hinges on 1 door of each pair, with hinges that are 1/8" bigger overlay. So if they are 1 1/4 buy a pair of 1 3/8. Then adjust the hinges out

    bsaucoin thanked Taylor's Cabinets & Interiors
  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC
    5 years ago

    There are no "special" hinges, however, there are more adjustable, more expensive hinges than the production hinges they ship out the door. They keep a little stash of these hinges when they get this call. I'll bet it fixes your problems.

  • salex
    5 years ago

    It sounds like you are pursuing another option, and it sounds like cabinets are racked, but I'll rephrase something Sophie suggested: Try adjusting the hinge screws in ALL dimensions. If you focus only on one, you haven't exhausted your range of adjustability. Once you adjust in another dimension, the one you're concerned about (doors left/right) will be different. I would play with the forward/backward adjustment as well. And as another poster said, it can take a LOT of adjustment and even more patience.

  • PRO
    Debbi Washburn
    5 years ago

    If you go to Kraftmaid's website and go to the Support tab then to product specifications - then download... go to the end of the spec book ( before the table of contents - that is the list of all the door sizes...You had said one cabinet was a 33" wide and one was a 36" wide - so those where the dimensions I clipped for you... I can't comment on the hinge since I never had to get them.

    I have had this issue happen twice in the 20 years I have been selling Kraftmaid...

    The simplest fix was to order the one door that was slightly smaller...

    I am really not sure why they won't discuss a door size when their complete spec book is on their website for anyone to download...Maybe it was someone new...

    Good luck - keep us posted...

  • PRO
    GannonCo
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    How will new hinges work? You have a bank of doors all spaced the same amount. You use a hinge that alters overlay and you will effect the gap at the adjacent doors.

    You need new doors or have those cut down and the edges finished. The problem with going with replacements is they will never match as the wood has already changed color.

    This is assuming all your measurements are good. If you look at your first pic you can see the lower hinges are adjusted and the tops of the doors are not parallel.


    Not sure what a level will show you but take a measuring tape and measure the diagonal opening of opposite corners on both the doors and the door openings. Be accurate and take into account using the same side of the tape.

  • PRO
    GN Builders L.L.C
    5 years ago

    This is a common issue with cabinetry which comes from the box stores. We did installs for a few customers who purchased cabinets from the box stores and we ran into the same problem.


    The cabinet manufacturer is making the box and doors come from a 3d party, they slap them on without checking and adjusting the doors, put them in the box and on the truck they go and you get cabinet and in some cases a few cabinets where doors are oversized and need to be replaced.

    Few times when a customer called a sales rep to send someone out because of this issues, first they try to push this problem on the installation, so when we get on the phone with them, they try to get away with it by telling us to alter the cabinet and make it work (what a joke).


    Some places will jump on it right away and order new doors, and dealing with other places customers had nothing but a headache by the time they get anywhere with them... I guess it all depends on the person who runs the show there.


    Good luck.


  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC
    5 years ago

    "The cabinet manufacturer is making the box and doors come from a 3d party, they slap them on without checking and adjusting the doors, put them in the box and on the truck they go and you get cabinet and in some cases a few cabinets where doors are oversized and need to be replaced."


    If so, they're doing it with all their cabinets, not just those from the box stores.

  • User
    5 years ago

    KM makes everything in their Ohio production facility. They do not farm out door production.

  • bsaucoin
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    Thanks again for all these helpful tips and suggestions.


    Sophie and salex: Regarding adjusting the hinges in all dimensions, I have already tried adjusting all the screws (that is why the cabinet door in the right is a little higher than the one on the left) and it just seemed to make everything worse. But I can try again. Do you have suggestions for how to go about doing this? Should I adjust them all to one extreme or the other and then start tweaking various dimensions? you noticed that the doors are not parallel at the top but what you can’t see is that due to my adjustments the doors on the double cabinet are “out” or forward of all the other doors in the bank. I did have a “cabinet handyman” come out and try the same and he was unable to align them so that they could close. He got good reviews on Angie’s List but maybe he just didn’t know what he was doing? I’d gladly pay someone with experience and expertise to come and do it for me - my own experience was that each adjustment made the overlap even worse than before, so I stopped.

  • PRO
    GN Builders L.L.C
    5 years ago

    @Joseph, Sophie,


    Don't know thats what kitchen rep told us and I heard that from other manufacturer reps like American Standard, etc.

    Everything is the same, the manufacturer, the name but diffrent parts. Often you see that on plumbing fixture packaging, one manufacturer but some say made in the USA, some say made or assembled in Mexico and there is a difference between the two.


  • bsaucoin
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    Debbie Washburn - thanks for pointing me to the door specs. I see that the difference between the butt and non-butt 3342 doors is 16 1/8 vs 16 1/4. But I notice that they don't include measurements for 3642 butt doors, just the non-butt (17 3/4). In fact, I went through the entire list and only see measurements for butt doors in the 24 inch width at that height, and I don't see measurements for butt doors in the 36 inch width in any height. I wonder why?

  • PRO
    Debbi Washburn
    5 years ago

    Because the equivalent is the door from an 18" wall cabinet - half of a 33" wall cabinet would be 16 1/2" which is not a cabinet size they offer , so it is listed separately.

  • Paul Adams
    9 months ago

    I have exactly the same issue. All the doors on our new Kraftsmaid cabinets closed properly during the winter but now in late spring/summer they do not close: they are slightly too wide and interfere with each other. The hinge adjustments are at the end of their travel. From the number of comments in this thread it seems there is no easy solution even though the problem (solid doors swelling) is a straightforward one.

  • ci_lantro
    9 months ago

    This suggestion is plenty easy:


    All you have to do is replace the hinges on 1 door of each pair, with hinges that are 1/8" bigger overlay. So if they are 1 1/4 buy a pair of 1 3/8. Then adjust the hinges out

  • Paul Adams
    9 months ago

    where do I get those hinges?