Allegations of misconduct by Kavanaugh sent to FBI

dublinbay z6 (KS)

Nothing like a little last minute drama in the Kavanaugh hearings to spice things up a bit.

Sen. Feinstein received some mysterious information about Kavanaugh--which she sent to the FBI. The FBI then sent the info. to the WH to put in Kavanaugh's file. No one is saying exactly what the info. is--but it must be serious if the FBI is involved.

By the time the week-end is over, we will probably know (all those leaks from the WH), but for now, here is what is available.

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" A top Senate Democrat said Thursday that she has referred information concerning Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh to the FBI.

Two sources briefed on the matter said it relates to allegations of misconduct by Kavanaugh while he was in high school. There is no criminal investigation into Kavanaugh as a result of this letter, an FBI official said.

"I have received information from an individual concerning the nomination of Brett Kavanaugh to the Supreme Court," Sen. Dianne Feinstein, the top Democrat on the Senate Judiciary Committee, said in a statement. "That individual strongly requested confidentiality, declined to come forward or press the matter further, and I have honored that decision."

"I have, however, referred the matter to federal investigative authorities," she added.

Sources familiar with the matter say the letter Feinstein referred to the FBI had all the names redacted except for Kavanaugh's.

Additionally, the sources say the information wasn't disclosed elsewhere and the reason Feinstein didn't come forward earlier with the information because the woman didn't want to speak about it and didn't want her name public.

A source familiar with the allegations says they stem from a sexual encounter that occurred when Kavanaugh was about 17 years old. Another source familiar with the matter says the information concerns allegations of misconduct against Kavanaugh. Sources caution, however, that few have seen the actual letter Feinstein referred to the FBI. A Democratic source says California Rep. Anna Eshoo had referred a letter about Kavanaugh from one of her constituents to Feinstein.

Multiple sources also said Feinstein received the letter in July, well before she met with the nominee and prior to Kavanaugh's confirmation hearings last week. It is not clear why the information was not relayed to the FBI until Wednesday night.

A source familiar with the process says there is no criminal investigation into Kavanaugh as a result of this letter. It is part of Kavanaugh's background file and it will be up to the White House to determine whether there is any further action to take. The Judiciary Committee received an updated supplement to Kavanaugh's background investigation from the FBI Thursday afternoon, an aide said. Senators on the committee can now request access to that information.

[. . .]

The White House, in a statement shortly after Feinstein's, said Kavanaugh has been "thoroughly and repeatedly vetted" by the FBI for government positions over the past 25 years and accused Democrats of trying to delay the nomination.

[. . .]

The issue came to a head Wednesday night, when Democrats on the Judiciary Committee met and discussed the letter for the first time. Feinstein described the allegations in the letter but declined to make it available to colleagues, one source briefed on the matter said. She chose instead to refer it to the FBI, which conducts background checks on federal nominees. " (SOURCE)

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I guess the vote on his nomination has been postponed for a week or so, but in the meantime I'm wondering about all the information that has been gathered on Kavanaugh but NOT RELEASED to the public or to the congressional committee conducting the hearings. Have they known about this info. all along and that is why they have been rushing the hearings along and claiming they don't have time to release the rest of the info? Something sneaky going on here---like trying to avoid a Clarence Thomas-Anita Hill confrontation that might throw a monkey wrench into the works?

It will probably all come out drip by drip over the next week.

Kate

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momj47(7A)

I assure you, my high school granddaughter who turns 15 in a couple months won't be at a similar drinking party and when she is at a well supervised party, she won't remember her specific clothing 35 years later.

How do you know what kind of parties she’ll be at?

You are making a lot of assumptions that have no basis in reality. Girls are assaulted in schools, churches, libraries, homes, doctor’s offices, even well supervised parties

SMH

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purrmich _6

He held his hand over her mouth to keep her (I assume) from screaming or calling for help.

That one action makes all the difference.

Those defending Kavanagh are the exact same who said trump's sex tape was "just boys and locker room humor". And look where that willful ignorance got us.

And now not only is she being vilified, but also her parents?

Of course, the frw's grandchildren are above it all.


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deegw

ann_t, I can believe it. This is from the woman who posted a picture of her legs to try to body shame another woman. The bar gets lower and lower.

And where are the rwingers who like to play the "feminism" card when a woman gets criticized? crickets, crickets.

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Ziemia(6a)

What she experienced in that closed door room was not typical. And no matter how drunk any of them were up to then makes a bit of difference.

None.

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CindyMac(8b)

Oh the drama over what sounds like typical teenage activity at typical teenage parties.


Attempted rape is typical teenage behavior?

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dockside_gw

Traumatized? Oh the drama over what sounds like typical teenage activity at typical teenage parties.

I can only suppose that what you know of "typical teenage activity at typical teenage parties" comes from parties that you attended when you were a teenager. If so, you hung out with a lot different sort than I did, and that's not a compliment.

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chase_gw

I don't know if it happened or not but to describe that type of behavior as " typical" is mind blowing.



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mayflowers

alexrander The FBI conducted Ms. Ford's lie detector test which she agreed to on advice from her lawyer. She passed.

Let's just keep reposting this to their inane, offensive comments.

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Ann

Let's see. Chase said this:

"Politically, things are a mess in the States and everyone owns it...everyone."

I then asked:

"Including Canadians that put themselves right smack in the middle of our politics?"

Chase, I'm still left wondering if you think Canadians (those posting partisan comments daily (and frequently) about American politics) are part of the "everyone" in your "everyone owns it...everyone" description?


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dockside_gw

I was sexually assaulted by my gynecologist in my 40's (it wasn't rape, however). I told no one but DH. I could have reported him to the State Health Board, but why? Even tho' I was a lawyer, I knew that it was a she said/he said situation and that a male doctor would be given more credence than me, a female, even tho' I had an advanced degree and good reputation. I don't remember what I wore nor do I remember the exact date. Fortunately, I didn't respond to him and got out of his office as soon as I could put my clothes on. Any woman who has the guts to do what Ms. Ford has done, especially after seeing what happened to Anita Hill, has my total respect and admiration as it will not be easy for her to withstand all the verbal assaults the Republicans, and their minions, will be hurling at her.

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mudhouse

The FBI conducted Ms. Ford's lie detector test which she agreed to on advice from her lawyer. She passed.

According to WaPo, the August polygraph test was administered by a former FBI agent. It was not conducted by the FBI; I've read that the last statement from the FBI was they have no plans to investigate the incident.

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deegw

More nit picks from the right.

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Ann

You are making a lot of assumptions that have no basis in reality. Girls are assaulted in schools, churches, libraries, homes, doctor’s offices, even well supervised parties

That's true, and so are boys. Boys misbehave and so do girls. Boys try liquor out and so do girls. Boys and girls make flirty advances to one another as teenagers - it's normal. She is giving one side of a story with a bunch of memory gaps (as would be expected 30+ years later). I've spent today trying to remember being 15, who I flirted with, who flirted with me, what I wore to parties, what parties I went to and who all was there. I can remember very little of those details at 15. Maybe one boy or another stands out in my mind in my high school years because I really liked them, but I sure as heck don't remember what clothing I was wearing or what parties I attended or who all was there. Also, I can't even remember which dates ended with a kiss I really hoped for, ended with an awkward kiss I awkwardly rejected, which dates I was flirty on (because I really liked the boy), which dates I was distant on because the date was a bit of a flop, etc.


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mayflowers

Most people who willingly take lie detector tests know they will pass it.

Remember when you all tried to discredit Roy Moore's accuser over the yearbook signature?

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momj47(7A)
  • Oh the drama over what sounds like typical teenage activity at typical teenage parties.
  • I assure you, my high school granddaughter who turns 15 in a couple months won't be at a similar drinking party and when she is at a well supervised party, she won't remember her specific clothing 35 years later.

So which is it Ann?

Is your granddaughter going to "typical teenage parties" or "well supervised parties"?

Or is this just more right wing hypocrisy?

Parties like these are most assuredly NOT typical among my friends, neighbors, acquaintances or family

You need a better class of friends if this is the typical party in your circle.

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mrskjun(9)

lily, I have, have you? She has filed a couple of lawsuits that she dropped and no one has found any evidence that her claims were true. She also says she was assaulted by Epstein on more than one occasion at his parties. If you were raped at an Epstein party would you continue to attend?

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mudhouse

No, it's not nit picking d_gw. It's not accurate to say that the FBI did the polygraph test.

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mrskjun(9)

Hey, it's what the left does. Remember Kamala Harris and the birth control/ abortion pill article? Leave out just enough.

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Ann

My granddaughter is not going to boy/girl parties quite yet. She will in time and they will be well supervised parties - the ones she will be allowed to attend. Her parents will see to that and so will she. She is most definitely the type of girl who would call her parents immediately to pick her up if the verification process she and her parents went through didn't match the reality of the situation and she found herself in over her head or at a party with drunk people.

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sunflower_petal(5a)

Of course, if this were a liberal nomination, the conservatives would be all over this allegation. Their guy? This is just 'typical.'

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Lily316

Ann, I totally remember an experience I had as a high school student having a date with Gettysburg college student. I was excited to go to my first frat party. This date was all over me with his sloppy mouth. We double dated so nothing sexual happened but I remember like it was yesterday.

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purrmich _6

What the right is doing is ramming thru a lifetime appointment on the highest court in the country.

First, there was the document drop - so convenient that it was at the last minute and of course, gopers couldn't delay the hearing. That would be bipartisan cooperation and gopers just won't do that.

The candidate was chosen because he'll go to trump's defense and let trump get off the hook.

Kavanaugh doesn't answer questions directly and honestly. He deflects over and over so that no one is getting a clear picture of who he is and what his opinions are.

This debacle will be election fodder.

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Ann

The #metoo movement has some very valid, worthwhile and good aspects for our society. But, it also has a very dark side of women feeling like they now have the right to accuse any man of taking advantage of them at any time in their lives - even decades in their past and that man shouldn't have the right to defend himself or his reputation. That's simply not fair, it becomes a she said/he said scenario, and it gives women an unwarranted open door to make misleading or even false accusations. This dark side also ignores the roll the woman played in an event, and I'm sure in the large majority of sexual and flirtatious encounters in our society, both the man and woman were there emotionally and were in agreement. This targeting of men only and the painting of women as always innocent and always abused is a destructive part of the movement. It's a shame that became a byproduct of the worthwhile #metoo movement, but it sure did!

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Ziemia(6a)

The party-attending habits of various Americans add nothing here. The recall of any of us of our 15yo self is also irrelevant.

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Ann

Lily, I can imagine that. After raising a son and a daughter, I know both had a few dates where they quickly discovered they were not interested in the person after all and the other person tried to pursue the relationship beyond what my children wanted from it.

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Ann

Ziemia, but the recall of the accuser of her 15 year old self is highly relevant!

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mayflowers

The candidate was chosen because he'll go to trump's defense and let trump get off the hook.

Bingo. Cult-like protection of the leader.

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chase_gw

This is so typical of the divide in America.

None of us have a clue if what she said happened did happen or not . Why do any of us think that we know who is telling the truth and who isn't? We don't.

To side with either one is wrongminded and clearly politically motivated.

All American citizens should be interested in the truth ..no matter the truth. SC appointments are serious business which demand serious vetting


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chase_gw

"Ziemia, but the recall of the accuser of her 15 year old self is highly relevant!;

Not sure why her recall is questionable but his isn't

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Ziemia(6a)

And time is needed to find the truth.

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purrmich _6

I refuse to go OT because a frwinger is making it about herself and her personal experiences.

I hope others don't allow this important discussion to get derailed.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Kavanaugh has already proven he will lie in response to questions from committee members that put him in a bad light.

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chase_gw

This needs to be dealt with factually and in the open. If he didn' t do this then he deserves total public vindication.

If he did do it, he does not deserve the honour of taking the bench.

It is beyond me why anyone would want less than to know the truth

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Joaniepoanie

Ann...

”Traumatized? Oh the drama over what sounds like typical teenage activity at typical teenage parties. ”

———

Did your husband, son, brother, uncle ever jump on top of a girl, hold her down, put their hand over her mouth and turn up the music so she wouldn't be heard?

This is not typical teenage behavior. The men in my life would have never done anything like this. Decent men don’t. What if it was your daughter? If true, then Kav was an entitled rich kid who thought he could do anyhting he wanted. Where is the blame for his parents not teaching him right from wrong? Why only blame for the girl for being at the party?

But put the Ford allegations aside for a moment. My question to Trump supporters is....his lying and dubious financial debts and mysterious payoffs do not give you pause? It appears he is irresponsible financially....and who stepped forward to pay off his large debts...and why? Can you honestly say these things don’t matter? Are you so desperate to get another conservative on the SC anyone will do?

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chase_gw

That's what is so weird......they could have any Justice they want. Why is this guy so important?

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Ziemia(6a)

Perjury, lies, unexplained large transfers of funds, gambling ??, drunken assault, more

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CindyMac(8b)

Are you so desperate to get another conservative on the SC anyone will do?


We all know the answer.

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wildchild2x2

As for the woman (or girl) involved at the time, doubtful she knew of Kavanaught's previous lower court judgeships until it hit the in-your-face SC media fan. You think she kept up to date with her attacker of her high school days?

Her husband has stated that she brought up her fear that Kavanaugh would be appointed to the Supreme Court back in 2012 during their therapy sessions.

That was during the Obama years. You know those years when everyone "knew" there would be 8 years of Hillary following the boy king's reign. So I guess if we believe her husband she is not only a professor at one of the most leftist enclaves in the USA but also a clairvoyant.

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Ziemia(6a)

^^^^ ???

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Professor Ford also is associated with Stanford -- through her position with Palo Alto University. No one has ever accused Stanford of being a den of radicals.

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Ziemia(6a)

"Brett Kavanaugh's nomination to the Supreme Court hit a serious roadblock Sunday night, as GOP Senate Judiciary Committee member Jeff Flake said he is uncomfortable voting to advance Kavanaugh's nomination later this week after the nominee's sexual assault accuser went public.

The Arizona senator said he needs to hear more about the allegations raised publicly by Christine Blasey Ford on Sunday in a Washington Post article, and said other Republicans share his view. Flake is one of 11 Republicans on the narrowly divided panel and without his support, the committee cannot advance his nomination. However, GOP leaders could try to bring Kavanaugh‘s nomination directly to the Senate floor."

https://www.politico.com/amp/story/2018/09/16/kavanaugh-allegation-anonymous-republicans-825855?__twitter_impression=true

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purrmich _6

What if she is a "leftist radical"? Don't they also have rights? What - if you sexually assault a woman who believes in health care for all - it doesn't count?

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purrmich _6

Ford, 51, is a professor at Palo Alto (Calif.) University and she graduated from the Holton-Arms School in Bethesda, Md., in 1984. (Kavanaugh graduated from Georgetown Prep in 1983.) She told the Washington Post she took a polygraph regarding the incident, which the paper reviewed, and she passed.

Ford did not say it was an FBI polygraph. It sounds more like a preliminary to WaPo publishing the story.

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purrmich _6

Something along the lines of the birther movement, Lynn. Trying so darn hard to make President Obama a fraud.

That's a lost cause because the majority in this country know who he is and what he believes in.

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Lily316

I still can describe every article of clothing I was wearing that night five decades ago when the gropper date happened.A navy shirtwaist Villager with navy ballerina flats. I’m sure had he covered my mouth with his hands I would have ptsd later.

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Zalco/bring back Sophie!

This accusation will change nothing. Personally, I have a hard time accepting an accusation that is so very old. He was 17 and had she come forward with her accusation then, this would have all been sealed as a juvenile record. I don’t doubt the accuser’s story, though.

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snow (4/5)

Ann - ...but I sure as heck don't remember what clothing I was wearing or what parties I attended or who all was there. Also, I can't even remember which dates ended with a kiss I really hoped for, ended with an awkward kiss I awkwardly rejected, which dates I was flirty on (because I really liked the boy), which dates I was distant on because the date was a bit of a flop, etc.

I guess you’re lucky? Some do remember, including Professor Ford.

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purrmich _6

The partisan nature of this debate is because the frw excuses their boys. The mindset is boys will be boys and surely girls did something to provoke it.

Liberals have an entirely different set of standards. We especially know that what a boy/man does is always his responsibility. I don't care what they're faced with. To think otherwise is beyond old fashioned. Its willful ignorance.

I'd like to hear what Kavanaugh says - how he defends himself. Republicans will let him off, though.

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alexrander

The polygraph test was given in July by a "former FBI agent."

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Joaniepoanie

Worth repeating:


mayflowers

The candidate was chosen because he'll go to trump's defense and let trump get off the hook.

Bingo. Cult-like protection of the leader.

———

and it’s why they are rushing this nomination through....no matter Kavanaugh’s problematic (to say the least) personal and financial history.

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Ziemia(6a)

Chase, you're using too big a brush. It's SOME that have reached a conclusion. SOME are saying this shows more time for examination is needed before ANY vote.

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snow (4/5)

chase_gw - this is a long thread, I’ve jumped in at the end but I’m asking for the process to slow down and allow the vetting. Why call everyone pathetic?

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chase_gw

Snow , I agree the process should show down and allow the proper vetting.

It's the rush to judgement on both sides that I am taking issue with

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queenmargo

I think this is a case of the truth lies somewhere in between. I think there is some truth to her story, but it feels like a case of an embellished memory with added elements of drama like her saying she felt he might inherently kill her. My comments about her over the top trauma and YET managing to become a professor is because I believe she is exaggerating. If this was brought to light when it happened, not much would have resulted to anyone with them all being minors. If this was a typical trait of Kavanaugh, it would have repeated itself. But who knows how many will start to have some memories emerge now, which sure does seem to be a pattern. these days. Well, at least until they take down the target and then they seem to fade away.

The left is desperate and trying to destroy Kavanaugh as revenge for Garland is pitiful.

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momj47(7A)

The left is desperate and trying to destroy Kavanaugh as revenge for Garland is pitiful.

Hahahahahaha

Is that what you think this is about?

SMH

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Ziemia(6a)

Time will allow the answers vis a vis perjury, gambling, etc to be dealt with as well.

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queenmargo

lily316

Margie...Clinton had a BJ in the white house because of relentless pursuit by a 26 year old intern who said she was coming the WH with her knee pads.

LOL- Oh lily, you are a riot, lol lol. Poor one eyed Willy.

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queenmargo

Lily, when Bill Clinton was under oath why didn't he tell the authorities how he was threatened with those knee pads? Ahahahhaha Ahahahahahaha… this will have me laughing sporadically for a looooong time;)

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purrmich _6

her saying she felt he might inherently kill

She didn't say "inherently". She said inadvertently. Big difference.

Men no longer get passes because both people may be at fault. That's what MeToo is all about.

What Dems and some repubs want is time. In reality, there is no rush. The only rush is from trump wanting to seal the deal. A justice who could tip the scales on an indictment. That is the reason Kavanaugh was NOT on two previous lists and why he is now. trump is worried.

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Ziemia(6a)

Words matter.

"She didn't say "inherently". She said inadvertently. Big difference"

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heri_cles

To Repub women:

Imagine if this sort of thing happened to you or to your daughter -a drunken frat boy at a party turning up the music so no one could hear, mounting you , groping you, only to be stopped by his drunken boyfriend. Imagine how frightening that would have been for you or for your daughter.

Then suppose years down the line you see this dude getting ready to be confirmed as a S Ct. Justice for life.

Ask yourself how you would feel about that.


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ann_t

"My comments about her over the top trauma and YET managing to become a professor is because I believe she is exaggerating. "


Margomargie apparently believes a woman can't be successful if she has suffered any kind of trauma.

How ridiculous is that?

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purrmich _6

Helen Keller should've known that and never tried to achieve a thing.


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snow (4/5)

margievank- I think this is a case of the truth lies somewhere in between.

in between getting corralled into a bedroom? In between getting his groping body ground into hers? In between hand over her mouth making her feel she might be killed (inadvertently)?

Please get with another conservative Supreme Court pick with ethics, this guy is awful.

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momj47(7A)
  • Oh the drama over what sounds like typical teenage activity at typical teenage parties.
  • I assure you, my high school granddaughter who turns 15 in a couple months won't be at a similar drinking party and when she is at a well supervised party, she won't remember her specific clothing 35 years later.
  • My granddaughter is not going to boy/girl parties quite yet. She will in time and they will be well supervised parties - the ones she will be allowed to attend. Her parents will see to that and so will she.
  • She is most definitely the type of girl who would call her parents immediately to pick her up if the verification process she and her parents went through didn't match the reality of the situation and she found herself in over her head or at a party with drunk people.

So she's not going to be the "typical teenager" at "typical teenage parties" you seem to know so much about?

Do you have a chastity belt for her, too?

How do you know Ms. Ford wasn't just like your granddaughter? This is slut shaming, of the worst sort.

Will you treat your granddaughter this way if she doesn't live up to your expectations, too?

Or if she is assaulted, though no fault of her own?

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leona_2008

A boy who will hold a girl down against her will and grope her will rape unless he is stopped or she gets away. She got away. Think about that. Had she not gotten away, he would have raped her.

trump picked Kavanaugh to protect himself. The Republicans are rushing the confirmation because they fear they will lose their majority in November and not be able to seat another Conservative on the SC. They are not concerned with Kavanaugh's integrity. At. All.

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momj47(7A)

Ann, you are engaging in slut-shaming

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purrmich _6

That's it, leona.

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Jenn TheCaLLisComingFromInsideTheHouse(5)

The insinuation that the dark forces of overzealous/angry/liberal/media actors have pushed the #metoo movement into making accusations against various men that are questionable or presented in a false light by those looking to gain something material or out of revenge for what - not being promoted? being turned down? - is just vile. To honestly think that the women who come forward with their stories - even the ones that describe events that occurred decades ago - are eager to share their experience(s) in a public manner, KNOWING FOR A FACT that they will be facing trolls, anonymous people attacking them online, their colleagues and friends will be dragged into things with intrusive, baiting questions about the victim, virtually everyone who has ever known them and who is part of their life now will have an opinion and may be more worried about what the impact on them will be if they don't denounce the person who came forward and named their abuser/attacker.

The way that our society continues to treat victims who speak about what happened to them/is happening to them, who report their assault, and stand with other victims in solidarity/for support - and people are still wondering why they don't come forward sooner? Why they don't immediately go to the ER for a rape kit and file a police report? They don't because of all the people who are more interested in finding ways to discredit them, seeking to turn things around so that suddenly the victim is now the problem, and the attacker/abuser is suddenly the victim.

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snow (4/5)

Jenn - many thanks for your comment

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purrmich _6

Since when do we only punish repeat rape offenders? My gosh, that's an astonishing leap of ignorance.

It doesn't need to be Kavanaugh's "trait". What this country needs to know is if he did.

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Ann

Liberals have an entirely different set of standards. We especially know that what a boy/man does is always his responsibility. I don't care what they're faced with. To think otherwise is beyond old fashioned. Its willful ignorance.

Okay, what about what a girl/woman does? Is it her responsibility too or is a man always guilty and a woman always innocent?

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deegw

woosh

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momj47(7A)


what about what a girl/woman does? Is it her responsibility too or is a man always guilty and a woman always innocent?

Violence against women, by men, is much more prevalent than violence against men, by women.

And no matter how upright, how careful, how well behaved a girl/woman is, she can be the victim of violence through no fault of her own.

But you already know that Ann

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purrmich _6

Not at all what I said.

What is it that the woman is doing? Flirting, teasing, stripping? In that case, yes, the woman is not punished.

Boys and men are responsible for their actions. Holding a hand against her mouth - wrong and punishable. Forcing her against her will - wrong and punishable.

Do you know any women who can force themselves physically on a man? Maybe it happens, but rarely.

There are no laws against flirting, scantily dressing, drinking, and even encouraging. Once a woman has said no, that's it. Period.

That's how the law works.

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momj47(7A)

Violence Against Women Act Extension Included in Stopgap Spending Deal

Will it be included in the final bill?

Will it pass?

Will it be reauthorized in December?

The Violence Against Women Act, which was set to expire Sept. 30, will be extended through Dec. 7 under a stopgap spending bill released Thursday.


“Any program, authority or provision, including any pilot program, authorized under the Violence Against Women Reauthorization Act of 2013 shall continue in effect through the date specified,” the bill text reads.


The short-term continuing resolution will provide funding to keep the government operating through Dec. 7 as Congress continues work on the fiscal 2019 appropriations bills.

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Ann

Why woosh? I think there are a higher number of female posters on HT than male posters. I would guess that many of us have sons. Are they all bad people? In every relationship your sons have been in and in all our relationships with our husbands, is the woman always right in each and every situation? Do we, as women, not have the same situation - that what a woman "does is always" her "responsibility"?

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deegw

MH, when you are discussing a nominee for SC who has been accused of sexual assault, pointing out the difference between a former FBI agent polygraph and a FBI polygraph is a nit pick deflection. Who gave her the polygraph is really not the issue, is it?

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ann_t

"Okay, what about what a girl/woman does? Is it her responsibility too or is a man always guilty and a woman always innocent?"


Ann can you imagine any situation where your son forced himself on a girl where it wouldn't be his fault?

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Ann

That's her story. What is his story?

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deegw

Ann, let's take the word "sex" out of the equation. Perhaps it will be easier for you to get the point.

In what circumstance is it okay for a guy to assault a woman by putting his hand over her mouth and holding her down against her will and roughly grabbing her body?

Don't tell me stories about your grandkids or your sons or your daughters or your memories. Just answer the question.


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roxsol

Ann, anyone, man or woman, who forces another into doing something they don’t want to do is in the wrong.

eta Both need to be heard.

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purrmich _6

Why woosh? I think there are a higher number of female posters on HT than male posters. I would guess that many of us have sons. Are they all bad people? In every relationship your sons have been in and in all our relationships with our husbands, is the woman always right in each and every situation? Do we, as women, not have the same situation - that what a woman "does is always" her "responsibility"?

I answered you very clearly. You come back with ridiculous and OT scenarios.

You apparently do not understand the law and its' philosophy.

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momj47(7A)

It's really stunning to see how sexist, how anti-women, right wing women become when they think one of "their" men is being threatened.


What drives this behavior?

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Kathy

If Republicans excuse Trump’s actions they will never hold Kavanaugh to a higher standard. I don’t even think they have a standard as long as the person is Republican. Winning....you know.

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Jenn TheCaLLisComingFromInsideTheHouse(5)

Sexual assault and domestic abuse has taken far too long to start being talked about, and victims to feel like they can come forward with their experiences and that those around them (the majority at least) will be supportive. But all victims know that they will be subjected to criticisms, denials, attacks, even threats - things they have to weigh against the benefits (relief that they are no longer shouldering the burden of their secret alone, people coming together and supporting them emotionally, etc) of taking the risk of sharing their story. Whether they were attacked by someone with money, power, significant standing in the community or by a fellow student in high school or at college, the victims are WELL AWARE of the response that they will unfortunately face from society, the worst of it will come from the relative anonymity of the internet strangers on social media.

Contrary to the belief of some, there is no 'perfect victim' who checks off all the boxes and is therefore worthy of sympathy and their attacker prosecuted. The majority of sexual assaults involve a person that the victim knows and often they know their attacker quite well - a friend, a neighbor, someone who attends their church or even is in church leadership, sometimes it's a family member. The stranger lurking in a dark alley waiting to pounce is the stuff of fiction more than it is the reality of sexual assault. Before Anita Hill, this country largely struggled to give a name to what happens when an employee is subject to the unwanted attentions of their workplace superior. Women mostly discussed it amongst themselves or not at all, and those discussions were largely to warn other women about the men who were behaving in disgusting and unprofessional ways towards their female staff and colleagues.

The experiences of one woman or some women - something that we saw when #metoo brought forward female celebrities who shared that they did not have the violating and degrading experiences that other women and men were sharing with the public - does not mean that ALL have any given experience. But much like the ridiculous counter-argument that false rape accusations occur, the reality is that there are incredibly few false rape accusations and the majority of rape allegations are TRUE. Trying to distract with a vague "but there are some accusations made by lying liars" when even the person making such a statement knows the overwhelming number of cases in which sexual assault occurred are real incidents with real victims who were really sexually assaulted...That's just SAD, and it doesn't reflect well on them as people when they are more eager to point out the fraction of bad actors than acknowledge the countless victims.

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Ann

Here is an interesting take on this situation from a person who does not want Kavanaugh to be a SCOTUS justice. I think it likely Dems will give this accusation their full attention, but, frankly, I think it will be interesting to see how this all plays out. With so much attention on it, I do think it will need to play out now and I think the Dem's laser focus on this will lead to ramifications. What those ramifications will be is yet to be seen. Is it the perfect Hail Mary at the perfect time (for Dems) or is one too many things being overplayed at just the wrong time?


https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2018/09/16/what-kavanaugh-did-teen-irrelevant-so-whether-hes-nice/1328274002/

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momj47(7A)

If you don’t know Kavanaugh;s story by now Ann, you arent’ staying up to date.

I guess Faux “News” isn’t reporting this at all.

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deegw

Ann, perhaps you missed my question?


In what circumstance is it okay for a guy to assault a woman by putting his hand over her mouth and holding her down against her will and roughly grabbing her body?

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purrmich _6

How freaking weird is it that it all comes down to blaming the Dems. Cause you need a scapegoat and can't admit that one of yours is unworthy.

I think the rush job Kavanaugh is getting will look bad to the majority of people.

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Ann

d_gw, Kavanaugh and Judge both deny that her story happened. Either she is right or they are right or the real story is somewhere in the middle. Your question is irrelevant in this situation unless it turns out to be true. A boy should not assault a girl and a woman should not try to trap a man with a 35 year old accusation purposely delivered at the precise moment to cause the most damage to the man's life. Clearly, this now has to play out and we'll see if the truth comes out. Right now, I have no more reason to believe her than to believe Kavanaugh and Judge. Highly suspicious, though, is her timing!

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deegw

You asked about the woosh comment. I was trying to explain it to you.

If you don't want to answer the question without caveats and stories and explanations, there's my answer.

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queenmargo

Ann can you imagine any situation where your son forced himself on a girl where it wouldn't be his fault?

lily316

Margie...Clinton had a BJ in the white house because of relentless pursuit by a 26 year old intern who said she was coming the WH with her knee pads.

Apparently lily finds Monica at fault. Those darn knee pads. Why no attack on lily lefties?

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ann_t

Ann must have missed the fact that Kavanaugh's friend wrote a book and apparently he spent a lot of time being a drunk. So not sure why you would consider him to be a reliable witness.

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deegw

Always elevating the discourse.

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deegw



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queenmargo

What d_gw, did CindyMac had over the screenshot duties to you?

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queenmargo

ann_t

Poor margomargie doesn't know the difference between consensual sex and forced.

Poor margomargie does know the difference, apparently some of you do not understand common sense.

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deegw

Ann, you asked about the woosh comment. I was trying to explain it to you.

If you don't want to answer the question without caveats and stories and explanations, there's my answer.

-----------------

Not sure why this post up thread vanished.

Vindictive?

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dandyfopp

Yeah, show me a man who hasn't muffled a girls screams while he tries to rape her, right?




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Jenn TheCaLLisComingFromInsideTheHouse(5)

The only guys who have to worry about being accused of sexual assault are GUYS WHO HAVE COMMITTED SEXUAL ASSAULT.

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queenmargo

Not really Jenn, all it takes is a false accusation these days and people run with the headline. Honest, factual reporting is no longer practiced.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

I hear and read honest and factual reporting every day, Margo.

Perhaps you need different sources for your news.

Try a local public radio station. Win-win situation if the station is on the non-commercial portion of the FM band.

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queenmargo

That would require common sense to understand my common sense comments.

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Ann

I agree Margie (false accusations). Everything about this stinks IMO. Feinstein waiting from July until now. Ford remaining anonymous and then deciding to come out today. I think this was a very risky Dem ploy and I think it will backfire exactly as it deserves to.

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queenmargo

She lawyered up ahead of time, AND, she waited to contact the Post until she knew Kavanaugh was on the short list, she waited, this was a calculated play and she is writing her own screenplay.

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alexrander

Oh I think you're writing her screenplay.

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Ziemia(6a)

What a schemer, since her plan started before 2018.

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queenmargo

She had 35 looooong years to unseat him as a Judge. NOW, because he is tapped for the Supreme Court by Trump she comes forward? Pleeze, you know if it were a liberal up for the seat and this happened, you would question this as well.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Who are Trump supporters planning to blame for Kavanaugh's perjury?

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Ziemia(6a)

Hunh, Kavanaugh's been a judge for 35 years.

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maddie260

Give me a break. Should we stay silent? Republicans could/can have any one they want on the court. This particular pick was not on the original list UNTIL his notions about presidential privilege became known. Suddenly, he was the ONLY pick and he was rammed through without proper vetting. Now, he will receive the vetting he should have had.

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maddie260

It should be as Ruth Marcus says in her editorial this evening in Wash Po. Apply the Byrd rule (when no one has a clear clean case such as appears here):
"no individual has a particular right to a Supreme Court seat. If we are going to give the benefit of the doubt, let us give it to the court. Let us give it to the country."

Amen to that.

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lily316

I totally agree right-wing women are anti-women, anti metoo movement. ...always standing up for their man unless he's a Democrat. If Kavanaugh is appointed, you can expect a massive backlash on election day. This guy has serious personality issues aside from being so creepy looking. He was way down the list that was handed to tRump but tRump liked his stance on prosecuting a sitting president. Right-wingers have their panties in a wad. How come you didn't see the hypocrisy when Obama had one year left in his term to nominate Merrick Garland, the slimy GOP senate shot him down?ONE full year..and all agree Garland is a fine man. Certainly a lot better character than Kavanaugh. Why the rush? Looking into the future? Hmmmm?

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heri_cles

She had 35 looooong years to unseat him as a Judge. NOW, because he is tapped for the Supreme Court by Trump she comes forward?

Yes, absolutely, because a Supreme Court Justice has far more impact on the laws of this country than lower court justices. They should be held to the highest standards.



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snow (4/5)

margievank - She had 35 looooong years to unseat him as a Judge. NOW, because he is tapped for the Supreme Court by Trump she comes forward? Pleeze, you know if it were a liberal up for the seat and this happened, you would question this as well.

Please reconsider with your heart and head.

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momj47(7A)

So is "embellish" the word of the day from your Faux "News" Margo?

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ann_t

"Please reconsider with your heart and head."

This is her heart and head. People don't change.

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queenmargo

Might I ask you people to comment with your heart and head when it comes to addressing your fellow HT forum members. How about *Do onto others*? How about *Practice what you preach*?

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queenmargo

momj47(7A)

So is "embellish" the word of the day from your Faux "News" Margo?

Sorry mom, but "embellish" was the word from my thoughts as I wrote. I had no news on yesterday. I know you probably think that is a big word for me, lol.

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chase_gw

I don't know why anyone is questioning the victims timing. Kavanaugh was nominated in July and she sent the letter in July. She acted immediately upon knowing he was likely to make the SC

ETA No doubt trump will go after her. No wonder she didn't want to come forward she is going to be treated brutally . Why anyone would want to put themselves through what she is about to experience is beyond me.

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anitamo(5)

Even Kellyanne said on Fox this morning that "This woman should not be insulted and she should not be ignored."

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queenmargo

No one is insulting her or ignoring her. She should be given her chance to speak. She should be listened to and it should be looked into. Questions need to be asked and answered.

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mrskjun(9)

Well, it could be there is more history here than originally thought. Seems like the Blasey's may have been acquainted with Kavanaugh's mother, Judge Kavanaugh that is.

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queenmargo

There is always more with this stuff when one digs deeper. Everyone is quick to run with the * Breaking news headline*

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Stan Areted

I can't wait for all the stories of the interactions of all women of male congressmen and senators, and judges from age 5 on to start coming out--some might not even be "repressed." Let's get it all out--female congressional representatives and senators and judges too--did they flirt? Did they stop in the middle of a doorway to block the passage and "accidentally" brush across a male?

It was posted earlier that Kavanaugh is accused of assault.

Depending on the verbiage of the different states, assault has commonly in the past been used to define an ATTEMPT to commit a battery, which is physicial contact. It varies in sexual crimes and the states.

So, what exactly is the CRIME which Kavanaugh is accused of committing?Rape? Attempted rape? Battery? Attempted battery? Assault? It is important that crimes be reported and heard. It is important that a pattern of crimes is reported and examined for anyone holding public office. d

That the timing is questionable is at the top of the list.

My question is, what's going to happen now that #MeToo can shut down absolutely anyone, male or female, liberal or conservative--the livlihood, the reputation, the life of anyone they want with any type of allegations. Cowardly and mad and men hating women are now getting their vengeance.

Expect to see more of it when people aren't careful with their accusations.

It was all okay for Bill Clinton to REMAIN AS PRESIDENT in office when he was accused my MULTIPLE women, even for RAPE, as "private matters" and "not interfering with his job." Funny how now that it's Kavanaugh--not even confirmed nor a crime identified--just a "represssed memory of falling on a bed and contact" it's the end of the world,

This is why Democrats and liberals are difficult to take seriously. Their "integrity" and standards only go so far as their political leanings and their end game.

The citizens of this country see that; the Democrats just don't seem to think the people of this country are smart eough to see it.

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deegw

Making snide comments about the timing and the circumstances and her character? Isn't that insulting?

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queenmargo

d_gw

Making snide comments about the timing and the circumstances and her character? Isn't that insulting?

Then the left does NOTHING but insult. ALL DAY LONG.

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ann_t

Chase is right and it already started here on HT. And no surprise at who was first up to bat and who was on deck.

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deegw


Lame attempt at deflection. Making snide comments about the timing, the circumstances and her character? Insulting or not?

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queenmargo

NO, how do you get to the truth without asking those questions.

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deegw

Your snide comments are designed to ferret out the truth? That's rich coming from an ardent supporter of the liar in chief.

KA says not to insult. You should listen to her and stop the snide comments.

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Ziemia(6a)

It's tough when the Trump position is "Keep to the schedule!" and that means there's no time for answering questions.

Hard for some when realizing there's agreement on delaying the vote. Which is what many, many on the left have been saying repeatedly.

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queenmargo

KA says not to insult. You should listen to her and stop the snide comments.

Will you listen to KA?

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queenmargo

YES, they should keep the schedule. Fiendstien and Ford had plenty of time to bring this forward. This was a blatant tactic to derail.

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Ann

Yes, absolutely, because a Supreme Court Justice has far more impact on the laws of this country than lower court justices. They should be held to the highest standards.

Yes, and because of all his previous appointments and clearances, he's been investigated by the FBI 6 times. The timing of this represents nothing more than a political ploy. As I said yesterday, we'll see how it works. I hope karma steps in exactly how it should in this situation!


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Stan Areted

Give me a break.

This is a "repressed" memory with no name in a therapist's office?

That fact itself tells you she has problems relating with men--even her own husband.

Teddy Kennedy is still lionized.

He DROWNED a woman, ran away, didn't report it while she clung to life breathing in an air pocket, and donned a FAKE neck brace for sympathy.

THIS is YOUR HERO.

Your hypocrisy smells to high heavens.

And Ann, you are right. I know a thing about FBI background checks.

It is surprising to know what the tiniest bits of information about you they get, and what's even more surprising is the people that they have extended interviews with about you. They don't just use the references given. They ask them for others, them for others, and someone you barely knew may be giving a 2 hour interview about you, all rumors about you, every bit if information about family, friends, etc. That Kavanaugh passed all of these without a whisper of anything is more than credible.

If this woman thinks he did something wrong--truly--she should have reported him, and she had years and years to do it when he was a judge. Instead, this is all orchestrated to take down a fine man and fine jurist. It's the way the left works.

From now on, I suspect it will be the way the right works, as well.

The Teddy Strategy--a good name for the hypocrisy. Conservatives didn't take down Teddy when he in fact took down himself. But Democrats excused him for years and lauded him.

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deegw

Ted Kennedy? Bill Clinton? blah, blah, bah. Another attempt at deflection. They have nothing to do with this issue.

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Joaniepoanie

As I said yesterday, we'll see how it works. I hope karma steps in exactly how it should in this situation!”

Yeah....karma..hold up the nomination, like McConnell did for a year.

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chase_gw

Ford brought this forward almost immediately. It is grossly unfair to attach the delay to her credibility

ETA ...as far as how this may play out in the elections, prior to this accusation a majority of women opposed Kavanaughs appointment. Given the power of the female vote in these midterms this is likely to help Dems not hurt them.


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Ann

I haven't checked the news yet this morning but, last night, it seemed many Republicans wanted to talk to her and to him ASAP but wanted to stick to the schedule for the Thursday vote. Democrats have always wanted a delayed vote, long before Feinstein and the letter. I'll go read and see if things have changed since last evening.

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queenmargo

d_gw

Ted Kennedy? Bill Clinton? blah, blah, bah. Another attempt at deflection. They have nothing to do with this issue.

Goes to the lefts hypocrisy on these issues. Most court cases always site priors.

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Miz_G

Isn’t Don Jr hilarious! Stop, Donnie, my sides! Sexual assault is always good for a laugh.


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queenmargo

Yeah....karma..hold up the nomination, like McConnell did for a year.

Like I said yesterday, this is the lefts revenge for Garland.

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Pidge

The character assassination of Dr. Ford is right around the corner.

Whateve side of the political arena you belong to, this man will be FOREVER dogged by this (alleged) charge of attempted rape. Thomas sits on the SC ever day and I never look at him that I don't think of Anita Hill. Something very similar is going to happen to Kavanaugh if he is seated on the court. And the rest of us, inlcuding the women who support him, will pay the price.

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Ann

If it was about her being wronged by a man, she would have brought it up 35 years ago. If not at 15, how about 20, 25, 30, 35, 40? It clearly has nothing to do with her being "harmed" and everything to do with her harming him, IMO!

Furthermore, she discussed it in therapy (without naming him btw). If she felt it was attempted rape and she could have been "inadvertently" killed, why on earth weren't she, her husband, and her therapist wanting to immediately report it to the authorities to stop the dangerous man from doing the same to others. Get real!

Her credibility (or lack thereof IMO) is precisely tied to her delay and timing!

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CindyMac(8b)




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Stan Areted

Given the power of the female vote in these midterms this is likely to help Dems not hurt them.


I wouldn't be so sure. Not all women believe all women who say they are victims, and especially under these circumstances.

Believe it or not, there ARE women who are independent of the #MeToo mindset and understand the nature of interactions between men and women, and also how angry liberal women tend to characterize them when it's to their benefit.

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CindyMac(8b)

This thread is so revealing. God forbid something like this happens to one of your grandchildren.

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queenmargo

LOL- sorry CindyMac, I guess you are still in charge of screenshots.

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Nothing Left to Say

Miz_G, that tweet is disgusting.

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queenmargo

CindyMac(8b)

This thread is so revealing. God forbid something like this happens to one of your grandchildren.

Yeah, too bad Kavanaugh wasn't an ILLEGAL, then the left would probably give him a pass.They don't seem to think about that when an ILLEGAL kills someone. That it could happen to someone in their family or their grandchildren.

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Kathy

Kavanaugh is getting a pass from the GOP because he is a known Republican Judge.

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Ann

Whateve side of the political arena you belong to, this man will be FOREVER dogged by this (alleged) charge of attempted rape. Thomas sits on the SC ever day and I never look at him that I don't think of Anita Hill. Something very similar is going to happen to Kavanaugh if he is seated on the court. And the rest of us, inlcuding the women who support him, will pay the price.

This is precisely why a person has no right to try to destroy another in this extremely belated, timed to do maximum damage, manner. But, with that said, I completely disagree about how Thomas has been viewed for his life by many or possibly even most.


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Stan Areted

Great point, Margievank.

Dead citizens--children--killed by illegals--are just "someone who could have been killed by a citizen anyway" and nothing to get upset about when it comes to many liberals.

Take a high school girl at a party where alcohol is supposedly served to underaged teenagers--WHICH SHE WAS ATTENDING--and going on 40 years later she's all traumatized her bathing suit was coming off and got scared. She's stayed quiet all these years--can't remember where the house was, all other details--but she remembers Brett Kavanaugh was about to rape her? She could have done something for over 30 years about this "traumatic" event.

I guess she was too busy at the therapist's office trying to straighten out either her uncooperative husband or her mind, or both.

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Ziemia(6a)

So, the TrumpFans are thinking, it seems: "You survived - you put it past you so it's a disgrace to bring it up now."

It's just politics!

No, isn't it patriotic? She's sacrificing her serenity to ensure we all know about his character at the end of his teenage years.

And maybe this gives time for us to hear the answers to the many questions a out transfers of huge amounts of money, perjury, and the rest of it.

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Kathy

Who would have believed Ford in 1980? No one. They would have said boys will be boys as many here are still saying today.

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socks(10a)

"ILLEGAL"....what a silly comment.

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chase_gw

Kavanaugh already has the lowest approval rating of any nominee. According to an ABC /Post poll 38 % think he should be , 39% think he shouldn't be with a significant majority of women opposing him. His views on abortion are what drives this number and that was before all this.

Given the strength of the women's vote this cycle there is no way that this incident moves that number anywhere but down. I agree that there are Republican women who will continue to support him but the majority of women don't. My point being that given the midterms this is much likely to be seen as a positive for the Dems.

"The public is divided on President Donald Trump’s Supreme Court pick,
with 38 percent of Americans saying he should be confirmed by the
Senate, and 39 percent saying he should not be, the poll says."

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Ann

I read last night the 4 people/2 people confusion from the therapist was because the total number of people at the so called party was only 4 or 4 in addition to Ford. That hardly sounds like a party. Was she the only girl with 4 drunk boys? I'll be interested to learn more about this and what the heck a 15 year old girl was doing with a group of drunk 17 year old boys, should it be it was a small gathering of drinking boys. Also, she left and went home. How did she get home? Did she walk from a nearby house? Did she call her parents?

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queenmargo


Ziemia(6a)

So, the TrumpFans are thinking, it seems: "You survived - you put it past you so it's a disgrace to bring it up now."

Where was the metoo movement when Paula Jones, and the rest of Bill Clintons victims tried to speak out. The left wasn't interested in hearing any of his disgraces against these women.

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sunflower_petal(5a)

I think Kavanaugh would support being questioned, he certainly had specific questions for Bill Clinton.


https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/20/politics/kavanaugh-lewinsky-email/index.html


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Ziemia(6a)

OK, the email issue and the perjury issue are separate but both relate to K's work under Bush relative to judicial nominees.

From Slate (others are reporting as well)

Newly released emails show that while he was working to move through President George W. Bush’s judicial nominees in the early 2000s, Kavanaugh received confidential memos, letters, and talking points of Democratic staffers stolen by GOP Senate aide Manuel Miranda. That includes research and talking points Miranda stole from the Senate server after I had written them for the Senate Judiciary Committee as the chief counsel for nominations for the minority.

Receiving those memos and letters alone is not an impeachable offense.

No, Kavanaugh should be removed because he was repeatedly asked under oath as part of his 2004 and 2006 confirmation hearings for his position on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit about whether he had received such information from Miranda, and each time he falsely denied it.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/09/judge-brett-kavanaugh-should-be-impeached-for-lying-during-his-confirmation-hearings.html

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Ann

I don't know about your mid-term opinion, Chase, but we all have opinions. I do think this whole story coming out is a highly political event - in fact I think that is the sole purpose of the timing choice - to impact politics at the precise time to attempt to produce the largest impact.

I hope many Americans are disgusted with these leftist ploys and want a return to fair treatment of all, void of dossiers, #metoo abuses, etc.

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queenmargo

Kathy

Who would have believed Ford in 1980? No one. They would have said boys will be boys as many here are still saying today.

What Kathy, do you want to go back and re- try everyone's life. It was a different time. In this case they were MINORS. I did things as a minor that I hope would not reflect my total being. I took a polygraph test once for some security job. I was asked if I ever stole anything. I paused and looked at the polygraph taker and he said, *Have you stole anything after you were 18* and laughed. You can not take someone down for something they did in their under adult age. There would not have been any charges filed then. Perhaps she had more to hide back then too??

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Eliana

"How about "Do onto others"?"

That is a great sentiment Margo! The problem with it in your case is that you spend all your time defending a lowlife who do onto others every single day of his miserable life! Hypocritical much? (I expect this comment will fly over your head.)


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CindyMac(8b)



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Ann

Ford's attorney is worried the Republicans will be too hard on her client. Too late now. Maybe the gamble was that the Republicans would try to ignore the situation and simply proceed with the vote. Well, surprise, surprise. They want to hear the whole story from her and from him ASAP! Ford and her attorney better quickly figure out that what Ford has done is very, very significant and very, very serious and they should count on serious and detailed questions being asked and answers being expected. It is fair to accuse but she's the accuser and the burden of proof is on her. It is not fair to destroy someone because you think you can get away with it. She started this ball rolling and now she better have something of believable substance to deliver.

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sunflower_petal(5a)

"Ford's attorney is worried the Republicans will be too hard on her client. Too late now."

And the Democrats are being too hard on Kavanaugh in the confirmation hearing? Awww.

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ann_t

"If it was about her being wronged by a man, she would have brought it up 35 years ago. If not at 15, how about 20, 25, 30, 35, 40? It clearly has nothing to do with her being "harmed" and everything to do with her harming him, IMO!

Furthermore, she discussed it in therapy (without naming him btw). If she felt it was attempted rape and she could have been "inadvertently" killed, why on earth weren't she, her husband, and her therapist wanting to immediately report it to the authorities to stop the dangerous man from doing the same to others. Get real!

Her credibility (or lack thereof IMO) is precisely tied to her delay and timing!"

So Ann, are you saying that all of these women that have come forward over the last year or so shouldn't be believed because they waited years to talk about their experience of being raped or sexually assaulted? Or do you just have a problem when it is a repub that is being accused?

If you have paid attention , you would have heard or read experts that have explained why it can takes years before someone is able to talk about a sexual assault. Some are never able to talk about it.


Ann, you didn't have a problem with postponing an election in order to give Roy Moore a chance to defend himself. So I'm sure you won't have a problem if they postpone the vote on Kavanaugh for as necessary.


This is much more important than an election. It isn't like the voters will have a chance to vote again in another two years.



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chase_gw

Ann, it isn't that I think this will help the Dems in the midterms, I just don't think it will hurt them.

Kavanaugh was already under water with women and overall not a popular nominee. If anything those who felt that way before will be pleased if he does not get confirmed.


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Ziemia(6a)

Well, as far as the election predictions here, we have 50 days to see.

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Ann

I agree Margie. I can't think of a person who didn't do some things in their youth that they later regret. Many got drunk (maybe even really drunk) once or twice. I stole a candy bar as a child and felt tremendous guilt for days, later confessing to my parents of my crime. Many had their first sexual encounter before the age they probably should have. Drugs came into play for many during the years when it was both common and illegal (Barack Obama included). Youth is and should be the time of experimentation and learning from one's mistakes.

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Ann

And the Democrats are being too hard on Kavanaugh in the confirmation hearing? Awww.

More like far too juvenile, not too hard!


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Ziemia(6a)

These arguments such as these should not surround a nominee to the US Supreme Court.

His character is clouded. His judgement is suspect.

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whynottryit

While I agree that some things we do as teenagers is a result of just being a teenager, murder, rape, attempted rape or any type of sexual assault are not among those. A single case of shoplifting, DUI, getting caught making out with a girl/boyfriend wherever, sure...those are not character indicative events that should haunt one a lifetime. However, for someone looking to judge others who has an event like this in his background, this attitude is untenable. Especially, given we have seen little to persuade of his integrity otherwise. Much has been withheld, much has been unanswered or answered with a dodge. Little has been straightforward, honest answers that evoke trust that he will act according to the law and the Constitution should he be confirmed. He has lost his cloak of propriety and, were he the kind of judge that he should be, he would have long ago withdrawn his name from nomination. This excusing of bad behavior is what got us where we are right now. We cannot continue to make the same mistakes repeatedly and expect the nation to stand.

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Ann

Ann_t, Feinstein has had months to bring this forward, right in the middle of a long and arduous hearing process. There was no need for her to withhold pertinent info. The Dems could have spent days grilling him about these accusations.

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sunflower_petal(5a)

"More like far too juvenile, not too hard!"

Ah, your opinion, of course.

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

Leave it to Mr. Trump to nominate a guy with what appears to be a ton of baggage. Was he really the best choice on those lists given to the president? Did all the others refuse? Mr. Trump certainly seems to surround himself w/ shifty, compromised folks.

And where are our conservative friends getting their info? Is it a case of misunderstanding what's being reported?

Or are they just making sh*t up? What a load of NON-sense!

Prof. Ford contacted the Post in July, before Kavanaugh was even nominated. She was hoping to remain anonymous.

And it is looking like this guy has LIED UNDER OATH.

Shouldn't that be a dealbreaker to the right, who have over and again condemned President Clinton for exactly that?

Or is it a case of double standards?

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Ann

"Given the strength of the women's vote this cycle there is no way that this incident moves that number anywhere but down. I agree that there are Republican women who will continue to support him but the majority of women don't. My point being that given the midterms this is much likely to be seen as a positive for the Dems."

followed by, a short time later:

"Ann, it isn't that I think this will help the Dems in the midterms, I just don't think it will hurt them."


This certainly reads as contradictory to me.


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queenmargo

I think Feindstein should go down for this as well. What a devious person and has NO business judging anyone!!!

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chase_gw

Ann, it's not that complicated. I don't think this will hurt or help the Dems however if it does have an impact it is more likely to be positive than negative.

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queenmargo

Prof. Ford contacted the Post in July, before Kavanaugh was even nominated. She was hoping to remain anonymous.

She contacted the Post when she found out he was on the short list. She was laying in wait to pounce should he be the nominee. How calculated is that?

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CindyMac(8b)

Sounds like Kavanaugh was the one doing the pouncing.

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ninamarie(4Ont.)

What perplexes me is that Republicans keep digging themselves into this very nasty pit. They tried to foist Roy Moore on the nation and it did not work. But they took a public beating for the attempt.

Now, they are trying to foist Kavanaugh on the nation, because they will not listen. They seem to believe that they are above their voters and do not need voters to stay in power.

I am absolutely amazed at their intransigence on women's issues and sexual violence. Republicans will not lose upcoming elections because of Donald Trump, They will lose because they are Republicans, without the least idea of what citizens want and need in America. They will lose because they are venal and corrupt and continue to show their vices to voters as if they were virtues.

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queenmargo

How many here would take their own kids to court for what they did as a teenager? You would fight tooth and nail to claim he/she was a minor, not fully developed, etc. This is nuts!!!!!!!!!!!

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whynottryit

margievank

How many here would take their own kids to court for what they did as a teenager? You would fight tooth and nail to claim he was a minor, not fully developed, etc. This is nuts!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm not sure how we got from Kavanaugh to taking one's child to court but if my child did such a thing, I would not advise him to deny the truth. Yes, I would get him a lawyer to preserve his rights but I would have him groveling before the court and before the girl and her family to try and make amends.

One of my children stole a pair of earrings right under my nose at a mall when she was 7. When I realized it after we got home, I immediately took her back to the store, made her confess to the clerk, and told her to call whomever she deemed necessary to call. To my horror, the clerk made light of the situation and excused my daughter's behavior. Children will do things they should but as adults we must teach them to face the consequences of their actions.

In Kavanaugh's particular case, he has sidestepped so many questions and has skirted the edge of truth so frequently, that his credibility is easily called into question. Now he must face those consequences. If truthfulness and honesty is not a litmus test for a SCOTUS justice, then we have no business calling ourselves anything but a nation of imbeciles.

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CindyMac(8b)



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Kathy

A group of women who went to Christine Blasey Ford’s high school are circulating a letter to show support for the woman who has alleged that Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh tried to sexually assault her while they were in high school.

“We believe Dr. Blasey Ford and are grateful that she came forward to tell her story,” says a draft letter from alumnae of Holton-Arms, a private girls school in Bethesda, Maryland. “It demands a thorough and independent investigation before the Senate can reasonably vote on Brett Kavanaugh’s nomination to a lifetime seat on the nation’s highest court.”

The women also say that what Ford is alleging “is all too consistent with stories we heard and lived while attending Holton. Many of us are survivors ourselves.”

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/christine-blasey-ford-holton-arms-brett-kavanaugh_us_5b9fb3c2e4b04d32ebfabbc6

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Can Kavanaugh be removed from the bench for his perjury that was recently discovered?

Has any legal expert addressed this issue?

.

With Kavanaugh's history of self-serving lies -- under oath -- why is he assumed to be truthful about the attempted rape?

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Nothing Left to Say

He could be impeached. Theoretically.

I am incredulous that the right wing here is so busily proclaiming the Dems devious. The letter signed by 65 women is so underhanded. It makes it clear that the Republicans knew this was out there and they hid it. No way could they have pulled that letter off in 48 hours. They were secretly working on it before the news broke just in case. That letter makes me furious at the Republicans’ conduct in this whole thing.

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Stan Areted

Looks like there are some people that just can't handle the truth, or tolerate the opinions of others.


You just proved the point.

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Kathy

Kavanaugh lied under oath. Period! That is enough to disqualify him as a lifetime appointed SC judge.

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queenmargo

Kathy

Kavanaugh lied under oath. Period!

I must have missed this lie? What exactly did he lie about?

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mayflowers

People did know about the letter in August. Even reporters knew and were starting to contact her. This CNN interview gives the timeline and other details I haven't heard before.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jke_kb1vBF8

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Ann

Not complicated, Chase. Just contradictory.

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Nothing Left to Say

Margo, this has been discussed in posts here before.


Citing an essay in Slate by Lisa Graves, a former staffer for Sen. Patrick Leahy, Feinstein presented a line of argument that’s gaining currency among Democratic senators: that Kavanaugh’s lack of honesty makes him unfit to serve on the Supreme Court. In this case, Kavanaugh has repeatedly sworn that he never received documents stolen by Republican Senate aide Manny Miranda—documents that he did, in fact, receive.


https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/09/brett-kavanaugh-lies-senate-testimony-supreme-court.html


Lots of other sources available via a quick google search if you don’t like that one.

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Nothing Left to Say

Stan, who is “you?”

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Kathy

Rush to confirm before Kavanaugh is vetted shows disrespect for the Democratic process of appointing a judge for a lifetime appointment.

Newly released emails show that while he was working to move through President George W. Bush’s judicial nominees in the early 2000s, Kavanaugh received confidential memos, letters, and talking points of Democratic staffers stolen by GOP Senate aide Manuel Miranda. That includes research and talking points Miranda stole from the Senate server after I had written them for the Senate Judiciary Committee as the chief counsel for nominations for the minority.

Receiving those memos and letters alone is not an impeachable offense.

No, Kavanaugh should be removed because he was repeatedly asked under oath as part of his 2004 and 2006 confirmation hearings for his position on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit about whether he had received such information from Miranda, and each time he falsely denied it

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ann_t

"How many here would take their own kids to court for what they did as a teenager? You would fight tooth and nail to claim he/she was a minor, not fully developed, etc. This is nuts!!!!!!!!!!!"

I would hope that if you have a daughter, and if she were to come forward today and tell you about being raped or sexually assaulted when she was 15, that you wouldn't tell her to bad, it happened years ago deal with it.

But then again, based on what some here are revealing about themselves that is probably what many HT repubs would do.

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Ann

One of my children stole a pair of earrings right under my nose at a mall when she was 7. When I realized it after we got home, I immediately took her back to the store, made her confess to the clerk, and told her to call whomever she deemed necessary to call. To my horror, the clerk made light of the situation and excused my daughter's behavior. Children will do things they should but as adults we must teach them to face the consequences of their actions.

I sure understand the "To my horror" part! My young son and a friend decided to play with matches in the woods and started a small fire that truly could have quickly turned into a forest fire had it not been discovered almost immediately. The next day, I called the fire station and asked if I could bring the boys in (after getting approval from the other mom) for a stern lesson. The fire chief was delighted with the boys and, instead, gave them a wonderful field trip like event of the fire station and fire trucks. Ugggggh!


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chase_gw

"Not complicated, Chase. Just contradictory."


It's neither complicated nor contradictory .....but have at it.

"Ann, it's not that complicated. I don't think this will hurt or help the
Dems however if it does have an impact it is more likely to be positive
than negative

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Ann

I heard today (Judge Napolitano - Fox News) that the Ford memory was supposedly suppressed until the 2012 therapy session, when it popped out. I'm wondering if Ford needs more therapy than couples therapy at this point?

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chase_gw

How would Napolitano know that?

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queenmargo

ann_t

"How many here would take their own kids to court for what they did as a teenager? You would fight tooth and nail to claim he/she was a minor, not fully developed, etc. This is nuts!!!!!!!!!!!"

I would hope that if you have a daughter, and if she were to come forward today and tell you about being raped or sexually assaulted when she was 15, that you wouldn't tell her to bad, it happened years ago deal with it.

But then again, based on what some here are revealing about themselves that is probably what many HT repubs would do.

**************************

Leave it to you ann_t to twist this around. I was pointing out the fact that those of you who are so quick to condemn Kavanaugh would defend him if he were your son if he was charged at the time. He was a minor, why is this so hard to grasp?

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purrmich _6

Keep slamming the victim. Good ole fauxfox will give you all the confirmation bias you so urgently require.

BTW, had my Boy Scout son done something so stupid and irresponsible, I wouldn't turn my parenting duties over to any third party. The Fire Department doesn't have leeway to punish your son and probably has strict rules about how to deal with civilians visiting the station. Common sense would tell you that.

I'm wondering if individual therapy would help at this point.

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queenmargo

I'm wondering if individual therapy would help at this point.

They say the first step is recognizing you have a problem. Good job, you are off to a good start;)

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ann_t

I don't know Margomargie, why is it so hard for you to grasp the fact that a crime committed when you are 15, especially a crime of sexual assault is still a crime and is an indication, a big indication of what kind of person you are.

And why are some of you having a problem with the fact that it is normal for it to take years for some people to come forward after a traumatic experience.

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queenmargo

ann_t

I don't know Margomargie, why is it so hard for you to grasp the fact that a crime committed when you are 15, especially a crime of sexual assault is still a crime and is an indication, a big indication of what kind of person you are.

First of all, it is an allegation. It has not been proven. Secondly, they were MINORS. Third, there is a reason minors are not charged. They are growing and learning right from wrong. Do you live in some bubble?

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lilacinjust

You know who's not a minor? Keith Ellison.

Recent allegation of physical abuse. The woman confirms. Her son witnessed.

When is his hearing scheduled?

The 10th of Nevuary.

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queenmargo

And why are some of you having a problem with the fact that it is normal for it to take years for some people to come forward after a traumatic experience.

No one is saying that it can't take years to come forward. The way this came out is so calculated that it is not believable.

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Ziemia(6a)

Was Kavanaugh a minor at the time of the alleged assault? He was older than the victim (15).

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

"all it takes is a false accusation these days and people run with the headline"

margie--can you give me an example of a well-known person/politician who was "falsely" accused of sexual assault or attempted sexual assault?

How was the "falsity" of the accusation established?

How much publicity did the "false accusation" generate? How do you measure that? Were they reacting to the "accusation" or to the "falsity" or what?

Or were you just mudslinging for the fun of it?

Personally, I cannot not think of even one example of a prominent person/politician having been "falsely" accused of sexual assault or attempted sexual assault.

The law and I agree that it doesn't matter how "flirty" a woman was or whether she showed bad judgment going to an inappropriate party or whether she was drinking or even if she voluntarily went into that bedroom and voluntarily engaged in some sexual preliminaries (not that that last category applies to Ford's situation). It doesn't matter even if he penetrated her with her consent and then she changed her mind.

The moment she said NO--the male had no right to force his sexual intentions on her.

Got that? No matter how soon or how late she said NO, the minute she said it, the male is a sexual ATTACKER if he continues on past that point.

Sorry, margie and other conservative posters--but that's the law.

Kate


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Ziemia(6a)

Juveniles that are 16 years of age or older may be transferred to adult court for the following offenses:

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purrmich _6

I'm wondering if Ford needs more therapy than couples therapy at this point?

You're struggling but trying to imply Ford has a mental disorder.

So, on one count you're defmaing the victim.

And on the second, you're defaming anyone who goes to therapy.

Good to be living in the 21st century. You should try it.

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

I am truly impressed by the confidence with which it is asserted exactly what everyone on this board would do in a wholly imaginary situation; some people seem to have incredible imaginations!

And those imaginations are pretty much wholly wrong.

Is this a common ultra-conservative trait? That if one's child is accused of wrongdoing, the natural reaction is to deny, deny, defend, defend? That sexual assault is the natural tendency of young people, of guys in general?

Do some people assume everyone else is exactly like themselves?

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vgkg Z-7 Va(Z-7)

Repubs delay/cancel Obama's nominee and rush trump's through...

Kavanaugh .....Kavanah

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lily316

He lied under oath. Funny as soon as the victim came forth and her name was known, 65 women overnight vouched for him. The committee knew this was there and HID it to get this passed very quickly. Funny they had a year to vet Garland and wouldn't even let it come to committee. And they think we're not playing fair. Kavanaugh was at the bottom of the list given to tRump and he picked him purely on his opinion that a sitting president couldn't be prosecuted. Kavanagh has a very sketchy past. We have not learned from the Anita Hill situation and look what that got us ...that dud Clarence Thomas. Rush it thru, and see what it gets you. A SC justice can be impeached if more info comes out. More people DON'T want him confirmed than do. The most unpopular judge ever named for consideration

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CindyMac(8b)

Secondly, they were MINORS. Third, there is a reason minors are not charged. They are growing and learning right from wrong. Do you live in some bubble?


You might want to educate yourself before you make idiotic statements.

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Ziemia(6a)

This is a rush job. There's a reason he wasn't on that special list of conservative potential nominees. Maybe all these reasons are why: perjury, lieing, unusual financial transactions, questionable behavior as a youth.

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3katz4me

We have sunk to a new low - making supreme court justice decisions based on an 11th hour report of the nominee's alleged high school behavior. What a country!

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momj47(7A)

No one is saying that it can't take years to come forward. The way this came out is so calculated that it is not believable.

If this had come out years ago, Kavanaugh wouldn't even be the nominee. And if this accusation had been made against Merrick Garland, you would, no doubt, be screeching that he should not be cleared to this appointment.

Just the usual RW hypocrisy

And of course it's suspicious to you, we'd expect nothing less

As Washington reels from the disclosure in The Washington Post on Sunday of Christine Blasey Ford’s detailed allegation of an attempted rape by Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh decades ago, those who remember can hear echoes of 2003.

Right-wing pundits like Erick Erickson have relentlessly pounded the idea that The Post’s story is a suspiciously timed Democratic/media plot to interrupt Kavanaugh’s glidepath.

“I’m not as surprised by the Democrats pulling out a last minute allegation against Kavanaugh as I am by the number of 20 & 30 something Republicans who immediately think surrender is the only option,” Erickson wrote on Twitter, adding a hopeful note: “Clarence Thomas survived worse.”

In the Kavanaugh case, as The Post’s Emma Brown reported in her piece, Ford didn’t want her name used, for fear of subjecting herself to criticism and the personal attacks that would be sure to follow. (And have.)

In time, and for various reasons — including what she described as a moral duty — she changed her mind and spoke to Brown on the record. It’s always a long, necessary process, with many twists and turns, from tip line to completed story.

“With time and reporting, the truth can always be known,” Jill Abramson, the former New York Times top editor, told me Sunday, disagreeing with the notion this is strictly a “he said, she said” case.

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CindyMac(8b)

3katz4me

This country sank to a new low when Trump was elected president.

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chase_gw

Ford is saying she will share the results of a polygraph ............

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mayflowers

Ziemia(6a)

This is a rush job. There's a reason he wasn't on that special list of
conservative potential nominees. Maybe all these reasons are why:
perjury, lieing, unusual financial transactions, questionable behavior
as a youth.

There was very little interest in the first three items on your list from the RW. Now something comes along where they can discredit the victim....INTEREST!

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queenmargo

Is she taking a new polygraph, or is she sharing the old one conducted by a former FBI agent?

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queenmargo

CindyMac(8b)

Secondly, they were MINORS. Third, there is a reason minors are not charged. They are growing and learning right from wrong. Do you live in some bubble?

You might want to educate yourself before you make idiotic statements.

***********************

apparently you need to educate yourself on the word *ignore*. you post it over and over and can not seem to grasp the concept yourself, yet you choose to tell me about education., lol

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ann_t

"Is she taking a new polygraph, or is she sharing the old one conducted by a former FBI agent?"

Let me know when Kavanaugh agrees to a polygraph.

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lilacinjust

We'll be sure to notify Pajama Boy. He'll surely be following another man being accused of assaulting a woman.

Say, did he get a hearing, or was his denial enough.

Like Keith Ellison's.

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Nothing Left to Say

So disappointed Margo didn’t like my post or thank me for answering her question, with link.

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purrmich _6

Trying so hard with the "boy" references.

Lacks creativity imo.

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lilacinjust

purrmich _6

Trying so hard with the "boy" references.

^^^^^^

Oh, you're right purr!!! Justin Trudeau was a grown man when he made unwanted sexual advances to a woman.

But, we'll just take him at his word that he didn't do it.

Just like Keith Ellison.

Just like Bill Clinton.

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dockside_gw

who knows how many will start to have some memories emerge now, which sure does seem to be a pattern. these days.

I wrote on the other thread about this that I posted that, in my 40s I was sexually assaulted by my gynecologist but didn't tell anyone but DH. (That post was the first time I have ever said anything to anyone else about it, and only anonymously.)

This quote above just shows how uninformed the poster is. It was this discussion that triggered my memory of that experience at this time. Other times, it was allegations from the MeToo women. Until then, I had just buried it in my subconscious as what good would it have done to reveal it to anyone? And, I am seeing what happens when something like this is publicly revealed, as misogynists won't believe it or won't care.

Ms. Ford is an extraordinary brave woman. She knew from the Hill/Thomas hearings what she would be facing but chose to do the right thing. No woman would purposely reveal something like attempted rape in their past,opening themselves up to scorn and derision and knowing what they would face if they did, unless it actually happened. What does she have to gain but contempt and name-calling from prominent, and not-so-prominent, people? Would you ever make up something, knowing that this is what you would have to endure the rest of your life?

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gyr_falcon(Sunset 23)

I sure understand the "To my horror" part! My young son and a friend decided to play with matches in the woods and started a small fire that truly could have quickly turned into a forest fire...

I assure you, my high school granddaughter who turns 15 in a couple months won't be at a similar drinking party and when she is at a well supervised party...

--------------------

Written by the same person. I'm curious how someone that allowed the first is absolutely confident they can accomplish the second. Children will participate in activities that parents aren't aware of, even when parents are diligent. You are deluding yourself if you pretend to have some type of magical influence that it cannot happen on your watch, especially while admitting experiences that point otherwise.

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momj47(7A)

Ford is saying she will share the results of a polygraph ............

It's meaningless

Kavanaugh can probably pass a polygraph too.

Then what?

He probably doesn't remember the incident if he was as drunk as she described him

And if he does, he won't dare admit it. He was 17, not old enough to buy alcohol, so not old enough to drink.

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Nothing Left to Say


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purrmich _6

In the #MeToo movement era, dismissing these charges against Kavanaugh is the wrong thing to do and an exceptionally stupid thing to do considering #MeToo and the big numbers of women being elected.

In a way, this is the year for women because the public is electing them over their older, white male opponents. Strategic thinking by the gop would be to delay, hear this person out. The consequences of dissing her will be seen in the fall elections.

I didn't say convict him - I said due investigation.

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lilacinjust

How's that metoo movement helping the woman Keith Ellison assaulted?

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CindyMac(8b)

The sounds of desperation.

Ellison's ex has video proof. So she says. How many times you gonna beat that dead horse today?

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lilacinjust

"So she says". Who? Christine Blasey Ford?


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CindyMac(8b)

Even Trump isn't flying off the handle like some of you. Listen to your leader.




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purrmich _6

A lot! Gotta fill that empty white box with something.

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purrmich _6

Oh, someone got to trump big time. That is not what he's thinking.

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whynottryit

Assault

At Common Law, an intentional act by one person that creates an apprehension in another of an imminentharmful or offensive contact.

An assault is carried out by a threat of bodily harm coupled with an apparent, present ability to cause theharm. It is both a crime and a tort and, therefore, may result in either criminal or civil liability. Generally, thecommon law definition is the same in criminal and Tort Law. There is, however, an additional Criminal Law category of assault consisting of an attempted but unsuccessful Battery.


Source


Whether that assault is sexual or asexual has no bearing on the matter. Men know that. Women know that. Those who choose to ignore that are also choosing to accept the consequences of their actions, regardless of age. If we cannot agree on that basic concept, there is no point to the laws. We may as well accept our fate as being in a state of anarchy.

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Joaniepoanie

There’s McConnell blaming Dems again for being secretive about the letter. Well, Repubs must have known about it all the while too. No way could they produce 65 testaments from women from 35 years ago, now scattered everywhere, most using married names, in two days. They were hoping it didn’t come out but were prepared if it did. They knew about the allegation and were perfectly ok keeping it secret and confirming K. How smarmy are they?

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Lars(Z11a (coastal L.A.) and Z9a (desert))

If Clarence Thomas can get confirmed, I do not see what will stop Kavanaugh, since his crime happened when he was a minor, whereas Thomas was fully grown. I have tremendous respect for Anita Hill but none for Clarence Thomas.

It's difficult for me to condemn a person for a lifetime for one mistake made as a teenager, but in this case, we are talking about SCOTUS judicial position, and that raises the bar higher. However, what kind of a 17-year-old gets drunk? That shows very poor judgment on his part.

Stanford is indeed an extremely conservative university. I went to Palo Alto in my 20s to apply for a job at the Stanford library, but when I saw the extent of anti-Semitic graffiti in the bathrooms, I decided that I did not want to live there. I also applied at UC Santa Cruz and was almost hired there, but Santa Cruz is radically different from Palo Alto - or at least it was in the 1970s. So I stayed put in San Francisco instead, even though the job market was horrible.

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maifleur01

My stepdaughter was in the second class of the North Carolina School for Science and Math. She could easily provide the names etc. for over 65 students from the years she attended. Most people could provide the names of that few and an easy search could provide the rest.

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Bunny

what kind of a 17-year-old gets drunk?

Not a defense of Kavanaugh, but back in the early 60s I got drunk at 17, as did many of my friends. Not repeatedly, but we were stupid and thought we were invincible.

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queenmargo

However, what kind of a 17-year-old gets drunk? That shows very poor judgment on his part.

What bubble are you living in? What 17 year-old doesn't get drunk lol lol lol. Yes, poor judgement, that is what most MINORS have. That is why they are MINORS.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

I didn't get drunk at 17, Margo.

Didn't get drunk at fraternity parties either.

I drink, but not to the point of being drunk.

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queenmargo

OK- Nancy- you are amazing!!

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lilacinjust

margievank

However, what kind of a 17-year-old gets drunk? That shows very poor judgment on his part.

What bubble are you living in? What 17 year-old doesn't get drunk lol lol lol. Yes, poor judgement, that is what most MINORS have. That is why they are MINORS.

^^^^^^^

Exactly! What teens don't do things they're not supposed to do?

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CindyMac(8b)

Yes, poor judgement, that is what most MINORS have.

Exactly! What teens don't do things they're not supposed to do?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MINORS, teens .... doesn't excuse attempted rape.

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chase_gw

I absolutely never got drunk at that age. I recall thinking I was really " cool " having one drink of lemon gin with a ton of soda before my Grade 13 Prom.

As a matter of fact I don't think I have ever been drunk......

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lilacinjust

It's difficult for me to condemn a person for a lifetime for one mistake made as a teenager, but in this case, we are talking about SCOTUS judicial position, and that raises the bar higher. However, what kind of a 17-year-old gets drunk? That shows very poor judgment on his part.

^^^^^^^^^

What kind of President smokes pot?

What kind of President snorts coke?


Obama.


Don't think he was 17, either.

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lilacinjust

Well, color me shocked that 17-year old teens with not-yet-fully-formed frontal lobes have poor judgement at times!


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CindyMac(8b)

What kind of 17 year old man attempts rape?

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CindyMac(8b)

Well, color me shocked that 17-year old teens with not-yet-fully-formed frontal lobes have poor judgement at times!

ATTEMPTED RAPE

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queenmargo

What kind of President boinks someone in the Oval office?

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chase_gw

What the Hell has any of that have to do with Kavanaugh? Let them both testify under oath and let the Senate decide. The unfounded character assassination of both of these people is disgusting.

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lilacinjust

Stan Areted

I can't wait for all the stories of the interactions of all women of male congressmen and senators, and judges from age 5 on to start coming out--some might not even be "repressed." Let's get it all out--female congressional representatives and senators and judges too--did they flirt? Did they stop in the middle of a doorway to block the passage and "accidentally" brush across a male?

^^^^^^^^^

I'd like to point out that the sanctimonious Dems hid their slush fund for paying off victims of sexual misconduct.

What a bunch of hypocrites.

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deegw

Nit picks, personal attacks and attempts at deflection. That's where they go when there is no defense. Get a new shtick.

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deegw

Mods added some things back into the thread.

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anitamo(5)

According to Preet Bharara, the Kavanaugh vote has been postponed. Committee hearings on Monday. He says it's a big deal.

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lilacinjust

Well, if Preet says it's a big deal, it must be a big deal.

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Jenn TheCaLLisComingFromInsideTheHouse(5)

I hate to break it to people, but IF an accusation is false, the accused has nothing to worry about because the truth will come out. All those headlines accusing prominent men of sexual assault, domestic abuse, harassment - those men saw the loss of their status BECAUSE THEY DID WHAT THEY WERE ACCUSED OF. Many were shown to have a long history of inappropriate behavior, with an equally long record of people around them being willing to overlook/help to conceal/participate in their bad behavior. Why were so many of the people around them willing to be complicit, to act as accomplices? We can only speculate about what is/was in their hearts and minds in this regard. But that doesn’t mean the victims aren’t being truthful and no; they did not invite harassment with their behavior, they shouldn’t ‘have expected it to happen’, they weren’t the ones that should have had to find other employment or abandon a career they fought to get a chance at, nor is the fact that they waited a very long time to tell their story and didn’t follow the Judgy Janes required procedure for ‘ideal victimhood’ in the court of Condemning Colins - evidence that their story is a calculated endeavor put in play for partisan purposes!



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Stan Areted

The probability is that no one will be able to prove anything one way or another.


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Stan Areted

What kind of President smokes pot?

What kind of President snorts coke?

Obama.

Don't think he was 17, either.

It's okay, doncha know, it was just sex with Clintonl

It was just illegal drugs with Obama.

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deegw

As per usual, the right tries to justify Trumpster's misdeeds by bringing up the misdeeds of others. Wrong is wrong, right is right. Political affiliations do not matter.


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mrskjun(9)

Except when it's only wrong if it's someone you disagree with. Ted Kennedy kills a girl and he's the Lion of the Senate. Clinton rapes a woman and he's a revered president. Just try not being a hypocrite.

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deegw

Your projection is not reality. Remember that.

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Ann

Lindsey Graham was just interviewed and said the Kavanaugh vote has been rescheduled to next Wednesday. Huge kudos to the Republicans (including Trump) who are not stooping to the game playing of the Democrats. They are handling the very shady situation (due to all the weird/calculated timing) as the adults in the room. The accuser and the accused will each have their opportunity to speak and this will play out even though it appears to me to be a Hail Mary.

By weird timing, I mean Feinstein getting the letter in July and holding it until now, Ford hiring a lawyer in August while she was busy saying she did not want the info or her to come forward (sure!). I think it was incredibly calculated to land right now and I hope karma will step in and the landing will be the thud it deserves. Good for the maturity and calm demonstrated by Kavanaugh, Trump, and the Republicans. I continue to wonder why, right when polls are looking good for Dems, they want to blow themselves up.

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lilacinjust

They are handling the very shady situation (due to all the weird/calculated timing) as the adults in the room.

^^^^^^^^^

Ann, they all are, from Trump to KAC to the Reps on the committee.

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Ann

That comment about Clinton and Ted Kennedy is very much a reality, is it not, d_gw?

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Ann

Yes, lilac, every single one of them!

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deegw

Projecting about what others think about Clinton and Kennedy does not create a reality.

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Ann

Okay, I'll agree with the part about what others think, but what happened with both men is certainly reality.

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deegw

Bingo! The right constantly tries to excuse Trump and his minion's lies and corruption by bringing up the misdeeds of others.

They ASSUME that because the person is a liberal or a Democrat or whatever that we ignore or forgive the bad behavior. Not true!

Quit trying to project your forgiveness of Trump's lies and behavior on to others. Moral people don't care about political affiliation. They care about morals.

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lilacinjust

You better put some ice on that.

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Stan Areted

Yep. The state troopers will drive you home!

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purrmich _6

We'll always remember the weird timing of Gorsuch. Like always.

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purrmich _6

Did you really seriously say Kavanaugh's frontal lobes weren't developed at 17??

Too crazy for words.

I guess that's why every 17 year old is free to rape.

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lilacinjust

Liberal logic. Never fails to fail.


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ann_t

"Did you really seriously say Kavanaugh's frontal lobes weren't developed at 17??"

Which idiot said that?

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lilacinjust

ann_t

"Did you really seriously say Kavanaugh's frontal lobes weren't developed at 17??"

Which idiot said that?

^^^^^^^^^^

What idiots don't know how the brain develops.? Is it just a reflection of the public schools system in Canada?

Actually, it explains a whole lot.

The rational part of a teen's brain isn't fully developed and won't be until age 25 or so. In fact, recent research has found that adult and teen brains work differently. Adults think with the prefrontal cortex, the brain's rational part.

https://www.urmc.rochester.edu/encyclopedia/content.aspx?ContentTypeID=1&ContentID=3051

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lilacinjust

Just gets weirder and weirder.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

There's a big difference between these two statements:

1) Frontal lobes don't develop until age 25;

and

2) . . . isn't fully developed . . . until age 25 or so.

.

No development at all versus not fully developed.

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purrmich _6

And it's Canada's fault; What idiots don't know how the brain develops.? Is it just a reflection of the public schools system in Canada?

I bet defense attorneys are now scrambling to make a case that a 25 year old male and under isn't responsible for his actions! Imagine the precedent! Congrats mimi. Such a trend setter.

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lilacinjust

Such a shame so many people weren't paying attention in school!

SAD

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ann_t

I should have guessed who said it. But there are at least four that it could have been.

Imagine making excuses for sexual assault.



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Joaniepoanie

“By weird timing, I mean Feinstein getting the letter in July and holding it until now.”

———

And how about Repubs having a prepared affidavit in advance in case the allegation came out? They didn’t round up 65 women in two days. How long did they know about the allegation and why didn’t they come forward before now?

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Kathy

I believe the FBI should look into it more because of new revelations. They need to interview Mark Judge and others. A look into his book is relevant and might be incriminatory.

https://www.businessinsider.com/mark-judge-brett-kavanaugh-high-school-friend-christine-ford-2018-9

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mrskjun(9)

The 65 women signed that affidavit in support of Kavanaugh was for the hearings. It had nothing whatsoever to do with Fords accusations. Two of his high school girlfriends have come forward since and say that Kavanaugh would have never done this and they have remained friends through all these years.

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dandyfopp

Come on guys getting black out drunk and trying to rape girls is like a rite of passage for young men! --- Donnie fans by the end of the week.


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Kathy

200 people support Ford. There needs to be an investigation. If he is lying he should be disqualified.

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Nothing Left to Say

Kathy, that article really shows Mark Judge as a total creep.

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chase_gw



"The 65 women signed that affidavit in support of Kavanaugh was for the hearings. It had nothing whatsoever to do with Fords accusations. "









I actually just heard an interview with the conservative judicial group that released the letter and she said just the opposite. She said it was a spontaneous response from social media AFTER the allegations were made public.

What is your source Mrs ?

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dandyfopp

What a great character witness for Brett.


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lily316

Dr. Ford is a respected member of the community with at least 200 letters from HER school and interviews last night with her neighbors said she was a lovely person. Those 65 already there letters for Kavanaugh are a joke. So he didn't attempt to rape any of them? What does that prove? No one said he was a serial rapist. Did any of the devout know that their priests were raping their kids? This woman will go thru hell and she is lying?

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whynottryit

I remember the dates that I found "difficult". The octopus that was a blind date that I fought with constantly. The guy I had to stand in the doorway and tell him flat out it was time for him to leave before him saying "he could take a hint." No, I don't remember the clothes I was wearing at the time but I think had I been assaulted as she was, I'd have probably trashed them. I didn't tell my mother about those guys because that was truly a teen ager being a teen ager. However, I did tell my mother when I was 14 about the step-uncle that groped me. She talked to some of my aunts and they agreed not to tell the "boys" (my dad and his brothers) because they were afraid the men would kill the step-uncle. So nothing else was done at the time. If he were not dead now and were running for office or applying for a judge of the SC, I would certainly come forward about it, just as I would if I had been assaulted the way Dr. Ford has been. Any woman that has managed to go through life without confronting this kind of behavior in some form or fashion should get down on her knees and thank whatever power she prays to for shielding her so much. The rest of us are just thankful to have survived whatever we have gone through.

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momj47(7A)

Kavanaugh attended Georgetown Prep, a very, very exclusive Jesuit boarding school in Bethesda, MD. Lots and lots of rich, white, entitled boys go there, and they have a reputation for heavy drinking at their parties.

Are those the ones you are familiar with, Ann?

You commented that this seemed like typical teenage behavior at a typical teenage party.

In Maryland, the legal drinking, and buying age for alcohol is 21. None of these boys were 21 when they attended this school.

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queenmargo

whynot- was your step uncle a MINOR?

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queenmargo

In Maryland, the legal drinking, and buying age for alcohol is 21. None of these boys were 21 when they attended this school.

Yes, they were MINORS. But who bought them the alcohol? There must be someone out there who knows how they got the alcohol, and who owns the house the party was at.

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momj47(7A)

But who bought them the alcohol?

Recent news reports (about similar incidents at Ann's "typical teenage parties) note that boys usually buy liquor themselves, with fake ID's.

That may well be what was happening back then, in 1982 or 83

There must be someone out there who knows how they got the alcohol, and who owns the house the party was at.

There must be, but the Republicans on the committee don't want to know who it was

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queenmargo

There must be, but the Republicans on the committee don't want to know who it was

Sure mom.

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whynottryit

Margo, are you saying that if that step-uncle had been a minor, his actions would have been ok? A minor groping a minor is not illegal? Is that why you're asking? Because if that is what your question is implying, you're absolutely wrong. Without my permission, it doesn't matter whether he's a minor or not. Now sure, maybe a baby could get away with it but not a teenager by any means.

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ann_t

"Come on guys getting black out drunk and trying to rape girls is like a rite of passage for young men! --- Donnie fans by the end of the week."

Not by the end of the week. Yesterday. Some here are making excuses for this type of behaviour. You have margomargie yelling "MINORS". As if that excuses attempted rape or sexual assault.

And this one from whatshername is priceless - "Well, color me shocked that 17-year old teens with not-yet-fully-formed frontal lobes have poor judgement at times!"

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maifleur01

My brother was buying alcohol when he was 12 almost 13. It was a store that knew he was not 21. If liquor enforcement was in the area they would simply tell him that they received a new shipment of the pop he liked and it was in the case. I do not know if he slipped it into his pocket or if he simply came back later. I did not allow him to buy my stuff. Most likely these boys just took it from their homes. The people that I knew always had a stock of alcohol on hand. If any was missing it was either assumed that it had been drunk and the bottle simply thrown away. I am surprised at how many on here do not remember what they or their acquaintances have done in their past lives.

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Miz_G

margievank

whynot- was your step uncle a MINOR?

I swear some people just can't understand the words ILLEGAL or MINOR. They go deaf!!!!!!!!!!!!!

************

That is a very insulting and rude reply to her sharing a deeply personal and awful experience. It doesn’t matter if he was a minor or not. How do you read something that clearly affected someone, and just lash out at them? What in the world is the purpose in doing that?

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momj47(7A)

There must be, but the Republicans on the committee don't want to know who it was
Sure mom.

Sure, Margo

If you don't know this, then you aren't paying attention

Faux "News" isn't actually giving you the news

Democrats complain GOP won't publicly question Kavanaugh's friend, a possible witness in sexual assault allegation

Republicans on Capitol Hill plan to hear testimony Monday from Supreme Court nominee Brett M. Kavanaugh and his accuser, Christine Blasey Ford, but will call no one else, drawing rebuke from Democrats who say more witnesses and experts are needed.

“Compare that to the 22 witnesses at the 1991 Anita Hill hearing, and it’s impossible to take this process seriously,” Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) said.

In addition to more witnesses and time to prepare, Democrats want the FBI to investigate the claims before any hearing is held.

So she'll testify, he'll deny it, and the Senators will decide that Ford lied and then will vote to confirm Kavanaugh,

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dandyfopp

I should have known, ann_t.

Guys. if you have liquor at home and its not on lockdown, your teens are probably drinking it. And if your kids have one friend who looks older or one friend who is a cashier at a store that sells alcohol, they are buying it. This isn't mysterious.

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purrmich _6

The lashing out is what that poster does. To heck with making a valid point - just 'shout' and go crazy with punctuation.

Because that brings people over to your side. Yay, right.

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ann_t

But unlike 1991, this time around there are four women on the committee. On the Democrat side of course, not on the side of the OLD White Men.

It might not change the outcome because the OLD Men are the majority, but it might have a big influence of the midterms.

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petalique

Momj47, regarding your notes up thread, about BK (or similar), even if guilty passing a polygraph exam:

Kavanaugh can probably pass a polygraph too.

Then what?

He probably doesn't remember the incident if he was as drunk as she described him

And if he does, he won't dare admit it. He was 17, not old enough to buy alcohol, so not old enough to drink.

~~~

I suspect too (hypothetically) that if someone felt very entitled (to behave in the alleged manner), that they might not necessarily feel empathy, remorse or guilt.

Maybe more people will come forward. It is likely that there will be no definitive "answer." Instead, a vote will be influenced by political pressures, what some people think they can pull off (having rushed things this far), and, with any luck, some decency and honest reflection.



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queenmargo

That is a very insulting and rude reply to her sharing a deeply personal and awful experience. It doesn’t matter if he was a minor or not. How do you read something that clearly affected someone, and just lash out at them? What in the world is the purpose in doing that?

Well, maybe so, I got caught up in the moment with all this pre-judging Kavanaugh. I apologize whynot. I will go remove my comment.

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queenmargo

purrmich _6

The lashing out is what that poster does. To heck with making a valid point - just 'shout' and go crazy with punctuation.

Are you speaking of yourself again puremichigan? I guess you forgot all your old punctuation marks like ^^^^^^^^^ and all your shouting and lashing out.

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queenmargo

whynottryit

Margo, are you saying that if that step-uncle had been a minor, his actions would have been ok?

No, it would not have been OK, but would you really judge a minor the same way you would judge an adult? Why is this so difficult.

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momj47(7A)

pre-judging Kavanaugh.

You've certainly prejudged Kavanaugh

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CindyMac(8b)

No, it would not have been OK, but would you really judge a minor the same way you would judge an adult? Why is this so difficult.


Alleged rape is alleged rape. Age has no bearing.

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queenmargo

Well, at least you said alleged. Praise be!

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dandyfopp

Hm. Someone doesn't want to lie for Brett under oath.

Subpoena.

^^

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queenmargo

momj47(7A)

pre-judging Kavanaugh.

You've certainly prejudged Kavanaugh

*********************

Yes, I am letting him have the presumption of innocence until proven guilty. Perhaps you should too.

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chase_gw

Ford deserves the same presumption.......that she is telling the truth.

What a mess......I have no idea who or what to believe. All I know is that many lives are forever altered....and no I don't hold any individual to fault for that. This is the culmination of years of hatred and divisiveness



ETA I don't mean that the allegations or the denials are the culmination of years of hatred and divisiveness......I mean the reaction to it

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Ziemia(6a)

The teens that were in my life (they are now grown) knew that putting a hand over the mouth of someone who was struggling while 'you' were lying on her and feeling all over her body with 'your' free hand while pinning them down was wrong.

17 yo is plenty old enough to know. The development of the frontal lobe is more about risky behavior NOT about being confuses aboutwhen it's assault.

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dandyfopp

10 year olds know that is wrong, unless we are talking 10 year old psychopaths.



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queenmargo

All I have been doing is asking questions. Questions that many on here do not seem to care about. Quick to scream rape when no one knows what happened. Where were all of you for Clinton's victims? Then rape was OK by a sitting president. Some blamed Monica for bringing knee pads to the oval office. Explain that??

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ann_t

Judge doesn't recall, has no memory. Based on his book, he was a black out drunk in HS so I'm sure he doesn't remember.


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queenmargo

10 year olds know that is wrong, unless we are talking 10 year old psychopaths.

Did you say that about Bill Clinton at the time of his digressions?

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ann_t

Margomargie keeps bringing up Bill Clinton and his consensual affairs.

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CindyMac(8b)

Stormy has some interesting details about Donnie's p**** in her book.

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queenmargo

ann_t

Margomargie keeps bring up Bill Clinton and his consensual affairs.

Ask Juanita Broaddrick if was consensual ann_t. She alleged rape.

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ann_t

And you keep forgetting that she denied under oath that she had been raped.

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ann_t

Is it a picture pop-up book?

Too small for a pop-up.

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dandyfopp

Yeah Margo, never been a fan of sexual assault,

Then as now, people who make serious allegations need to be heard.

Per Stormy:


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queenmargo

ann_t

And you keep forgetting that she denied under oath that she had been raped.

You sure have selective metoo movement morals. You still defend Clinton and he lied under oath.

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whynottryit

Actually, Margo, I do judge a 17 yr old as an adult. If one can drive at 16, one's frontal lobe should be developed well enough to decide whether one can drink responsibly or not. Most courts have the option to try a 17 yr old has an adult or a minor, depending on the situation and the charges.


If it is proven in whatever way that Dr. Ford's claims are, indeed, true, then what Kavanaugh did is illegal regardless of his age. However, my major concern at this point is not the legality of his actions then but his truthfulness now. If what she says is true, then he either was in the habit of getting "blind drunk" or he would certainly remember at least that he was.


At 17, I had my first "taste" of beer. I found I couldn't stand the stuff anyway but after I got home, I started throwing up and was terrified that my mother would smell it on me and freak out. I still some 50 plus years later remember that feeling and that smell and the fear of being caught. I never drank the stuff again. I did, as an adult, many years after, drink socially and I can count on three fingers the times I got so drunk I got sick. I remember each and every one of them vividly. I cannot however, tell you all the times I had a stomach bug or some other ailment that caused my stomach distress though there were many. So while I don't remember things that happened rather commonly, I do recall those that were rare.


If Judge Kavanaugh does not recall having some sort of black out or some traumatic scenario, then I am left with the deduction that it was likely not a rare occurrence for him. So why is he lying about it? Why not say, yes, I was a hellion during those days and got drunk a good bit but I've changed my wicked ways? If, during one of those times, I acted inappropriately, I sincerely apologize and hope to use my position as a SC Justice to prevent such instances from happening. You see, it's not the 17 yo kid, I'm judging on this....it's the grown man who can't seem to tell the truth but wants to be on the highest court in the land.

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Joaniepoanie

Even without this allegation, questions surrounding Kavanaugh’s personal finances should be enough to end his nomination. Are there no normal, boring, straight-arrow judges with no baggage more worthy of this honor? Or just not any willing to protect Trump instead of the Constitution?

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Kathy

On the precipice of his confirmation to the Supreme Court, Brett Kavanaugh stands accused of drunkenly assaulting a 15-year-old when he was in high school. A friend who was allegedly present for the assault, Mark Judge, actually wrote a book about being an alcoholic in high school. Kavanaugh appears to make an appearance in the book under the name “Bart O’Kavanaugh,” in which he “puked in someone’s car” and “passed out on his way back from a party.”

In April 2014, Kavanaugh gave a speech to the Yale Law School Federalist Society in which he recalled drinking and partying in law school. The speech recalls innocent hijinks, but in light of the accusations now leveled against him, they provide context to Kavanaugh’s partying, though they happened several years after the alleged attack would have taken place.

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Kathy

Copy of a portion of that speech.a by Kavanaugh


I am approaching my eighth anniversary on the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals. I am approaching the 24th anniversary of my graduation from this school. That means I am approaching the 24th anniversary of my organizing 30 classmates in a bus to go to Boston for a Red Sox game and a night of Boston bar-hopping, only for us to return falling out of the bus onto the front steps of Yale Law School at about 4:45 a.m. One friend of mine, Steve Hartmann, actually had a Labor Law final the next morning. (I checked with him just yesterday to confirm that it was Labor Law.) True story.

On the bus, he actually had his book out and was reading his notes while people were doing group chugs from a keg. He got a P. I think the people doing the group chugs got H’s. Fortunately for all of us, we had a motto, what happens on the bus stays on the bus. Tonight, you can modify that to what happens at the Fed Soc after-party stays at the Fed Soc afterparty.

We had a good run my third year. We got our work done, but we had our share of fun. During our third year class party, it was a beautiful night then as it is tonight. We were at the Lawn Club. No one had done their SAWs. Most people didn’t even have their topics yet. But we didn’t care that night. We had a memorable evening. It is fair to say that we had a few drinks. Indeed, as a classmate of mine and I were reminiscing and piecing things together the other day, we think we had more than a few beers before the banquet. Might have been at Toads. Not a good idea.

Anyway, toward the end of the evening a friend of mine who shall remain nameless—and this is a story that is really about a friend of mine, not about me where I am disguising myself as a friend of mine—my friend broke a table in the Lawn Club reception area. Smashed it into multiple pieces. I actually still possess a photo of him sprawled on the floor on top of the table. How’d did he break it, you might ask? The old-fashioned way. He lost his balance and fell into the table, drink in hand, and the table collapsed. My friend was a big guy.

Now, you might think that we would have quickly left the Lawn Club after that, with some sense of shame. But you’d be wrong. My friend actually tried to get another drink at the bar. Proving something I have always known—that bartenders have a lot more common sense than many law school students—the bartender refused to serve my friend.

But that’s where one of our many fond memories of Yale Law School came in. Professor Steve Duke, who himself might have had a few cocktails, came to the rescue and told my friend that he would take care of the situation and argue his case to the bartender. His actual words, as we recalled the other day, were “I’ll take your case.” And sure enough, Steve Duke—or as we called him for reasons too bizarre to recall now, the Dukie-stick—won the case and got my friend some more beers. That’s probably one Professor Duke deserved to lose. The moral of this story: I suppose there are a lot of them. But here’s one I like: Don’t ever let it be said that Yale Law professors are not there when you most need them.

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

It is so interesting to see that conservative tables seem to have turned re: judging minors' behavior. I seem to recall some very harsh terms being used here on this board against the Obama daughters, and also various youths NOT of the privileged white boy persuasion - Trayvon Martin, anyone?

That said, all this pre-judging, and conjecture, when we don't know what happened, is neither here nor there. Kavanaugh is a proven liar about other things in his past, which to most of us, I'm guessing makes him unfit to sit on the Supreme Court for the rest of his life, no matter how much the GOP wants to ram him down our nation's collective throat.

It will be a pretty sight to see the all-male GOP members of the Judiciary Committee, trying to smear & delegitimize Prof. Blasey-Ford just before the midterms...

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Ann

Kavanaugh attended Georgetown Prep, a very, very exclusive Jesuit boarding school in Bethesda, MD. Lots and lots of rich, white, entitled boys go there, and they have a reputation for heavy drinking at their parties.

Are those the ones you are familiar with, Ann?

Lol, no, I went to a public school on the other side of the country.


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Ziemia(6a)

Go start a thread on Bill Clinton and his accusers.

I don't get how someone being disturbed by the stories around an elected (term limited) is so very understanding of Kavanaugh's judgement for a LIFETIME appointment.

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Ann

Ford deserves the same presumption.......that she is telling the truth.

Actually no. From Wikipedia:

"The presumption of innocence is the principle that one is considered innocent unless proven guilty. It was traditionally expressed by the Latin maxim ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat (“the burden of proof is on the one who declares, not on one who denies”)."

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

The attempts at deflection to the same old, same old Clintons, blah, blah, blah is a.k.a. 'changing t