okay, thanks...I haven't used them, just recalled it was shown during that presentation/seminar/lecture years ago...and the seminar wasn't to sell this product since there wasn't anyone from that company there...it was a fire marshall.

Before buying any safety equipment or gadgets they have to be endorsed, too many knock offs these days can come from unknown areas and made in someone's garage...in a foreign country! I would go directly to a distributor who would be in safety equipment or to a fire department to endorse a known product from where they buy their supplies....or has a UL tested labeling on it.

And if I recall correctly back then during the seminar, the canister was to be located over each burner....again, I'm no expert, just thinking out loud on this blog what my opinion is for needs within a kitchen...and people have various likes....some gravitate to fads, some appearance, still others look for sustainability, endurance, ease....and safety features.

I think "houzz" was looking for some "George Jetson tube vacuum elevator" or "replicators from Star Trek" type of ideas for the next fad makeovers...that is, "the kitchen of the future"...such as decor/color, fads for the next generation of "gotta have it, want it, not really needed".

I'm more pragmatic, do it right the first time and then I can use funds for another project....or possibly even a vacation! ;-)

"Fashion is not simply a matter of clothes. Fashion is in the air, born upon the wind. One intuits it. It is in the sky and on the road."

"Fashion passes, style remains."

Coco Chanel

melissamlong, we have a dishwasher, but I would say that 90% of the time we wash by hand. Why? Well, for 2 people it actually IS just as "energy efficient" to wash by hand! I really don't like to pile up dirty dishes in the dishwasher until it has a full load, and I'd never wash pots & pans in the dishwasher anyway, so mostly the dishwasher is taking up space that could be used for something else. I'm contemplating removing it at some point down the road, and perhaps in its place having some kind of custom storage on wheels, with a height a little lower than the rest of the countertop - in other words, something that I'd find useful!

@jmm1837: Water in my area is not critical. In fact, it floods a lot around these parts. But regardless, I had a dishwasher in a townhome once. It came with it. It took me about 9 days to fill it up. That's nice you suggested a dishwasher drawer. Yeah, I checked them out because, like you, I thought I could save water. I'm on a well system. My energy (electric bills range from about $60-$125 per month with the high amount due to air conditioning. Yeah, it does get a mite warm and humid here in SE Texas.

Anyway, one dishwasher drawer will handle 6 cups/mugs, 11 dishes max size 13", two small pots, 3 small plates plus a service ware basket. Two drawers hold the same as a standard dishwasher. Each has capacity for 5 place setting, forget the pots/pan and serving bowls/platters. You'll need two of them. BTW, I only have settings for 4. I don't even use a full setting daily. Of course, it's a lot more expensive per drawer than a standard dishwasher. And in both cases, one has to be very mindful to the type of detergent to use if one has a septic tank. I don't think my castile soap would work very well in cleaning dishes in a machine. Much easier and quicker to wash by hand for my situation. :)

Not everyone has a need for an electric dishwasher.

This is what one 36" drawer dishwasher (19" in height) holds:

jmm1837, I disagree that hand washing dishes etc. is neither energy nor water efficient - it all depends on how you hand wash the dishes! For example, I can hand wash two table settings plus pots & pans with one soapy sponge, and minimal water for rinsing. I know for a fact that my dishwasher uses much more water than I do! Celestina89, thanks for posting a photo of a drawer dishwasher - I'd never heard of those! It looks to hold exactly what my dishwasher holds, so even if I had a drawer dishwasher, I still wouldn't run it only half-filled with dishes. On researching drawer dishwashers, I see that there are complaints that they don't clean as well as a full-size dishwasher. So, how can it be energy & water efficient to use a drawer dishwasher if (as users stated) everything has to be rinsed off first, or it has to be run a second time to truly get the contents clean? jmm1837, hand washing dishes may not be your preference, but some of us DO find it to be the ideal method. Like celestina89 said, not everyone has a need for an electric dishwasher!

Isabeljanes, you asked "Reading through where some commenters express disapproval of "trends," my response would be, why are you on Houzz"?

I can't speak for others, but I visit the Houzz website not to search for the latest trends, but rather to read interesting articles/stories, many of which make no reference at all to "trends". I also find the exchange of ideas and information through discussions can often provide me with a different perspective. Advice or recommendations from homeowners who have lived through similar renovations/projects I may be considering has been invaluable. In return, I try to share my experiences in the hope that they may be of help to somebody else. So, as you can see, for those of us who aren't obsessed with what we are told are "trends", there are other reasons that we enjoy visiting the Houzz website!

@jmm1837: If I used a standard dishwasher, I would use 18 gallons of water. I don't use near that much every day, washing my two dishes and one bowl and perhaps one glass, mug per day.

However, dishwashers do help tremendously to save water if you have a family of at least 3 or 4.

I never considered the water/electric bill when it came to dishwashers...how much water and electricity do they really use compared to washing by hand? I wonder if anyone did a study on the different models/makes? That information would be worth knowing!

When it's winter, I normal don't let my dishwasher go to the dry cycle, I just open the dishwasher and pull the racks out to air dry...it dries fast and I suppose I also save on electricity....and it also has the added benefit of humidifying my house during the dry season of winter heating.

As an added thought...could using disposable and hopefully recyclable dishware and utensils be considered?...just a thought...maybe not a good one, but still it's available if someone is considering to reduce their costs of using a dishwasher.

celestina89: " If I used a standard dishwasher, I would use 18 gallons of water. "

Then you would be using an old dishwasher. Modern ones use 6 gallons and the energy star rated ones use 4. My Miele uses about 2 gallons per cycle.

Thanks, that's good to know....for some reason I never considered it, I just notice the ease of use...as well as dimensions.

@jimm1837: that's per water changes for the average aka standard dishwasher. It depends on how many cycles a dishwasher uses and what model. Most "modern" as you state used 6 gallons. Many models use 3 water change cycles, some use 4. That translates to 18-24 gallons per wash load. Again, depends on how many place settings you are washing gy hand or by machine. As I agreed with you - dishwashers are good for families of 3 or 4. You use the same amount of water for one plate as you would for a 16 service setting.

You need to define what is old vs modern. The average dishwasher lasts anywhere from 7 to 12 years depending on brand, care, quality, maintenance, usage and so on. Miele lasts about 20 years. But predictability isn't very accurate. So if I have a 10 year old dishwasher, it that old or modern? :)

Yes, energy star rates at 4 gallons per cycle, so thats 12 to 16 gallons per wash load depending on how many times the water is changed out.

A Miele also uses freshwater system either by tank method or internal system which requires several filtrations plus salt - soft water filtration intake. The freshwater system uses 1.7 gallons per water change cycle. Freshwater systems are generally used in boats and RVs. The standard Miele uses 2.5 gallons per water change out cycle. There is no question Miele is a high end brand. Nice if you can afford the price. Depending on the bells and whistles that can translate to about $2600. Their budget model (Miele Classic) retails for $1,000 and has 4 water change cycles and uses the 2.5 gallon per wash cycle. And that comes to 10 gallons per load of dishes or half a load of dishes. Yeah, I just read the information. And yes, Miele is water consumption efficient for an electric dishwasher.

As I said before - that works nicely for a family of 3 or 4 or more, but not for one or two.

" As I said before - that works nicely for a family of 3 or 4 or more, but not for one or two. "

A dishwasher works great for my household of one. I think the only situation where dishwashers don't make a lot of sense is for people who never eat at home, and certainly never cook. The only thing that really changes in a bigger family are the number of plates and pieces of cutlery, but the number of cook and prep items is the same, whether you're feeding 1 or 4 people. Monday, I was cooking and baking (macarons, pizza crust, french bread with chocolate swirl), and I ended up running 3 full loads. Yesterday and today were mostly leftovers, so I'll run one load for the two days.

No matter what some people like to tell themselves, dishwashers ARE more energy and water efficient, even if run 3/4 full. And the only households that can't fill a dishwasher 3/4 full a few times a week are households that never cook, or households that think washing by hand is somehow better (practically or virtuously).

@Toronto Veterinarian: Then you don't know how all people cook and clean up. I cook 3 days a week. My late hubby and I cooked daily. In either case, a dishwasher would have been only partially full. Regardless, I have no problems if anyone prefers a dishwasher. I don't use them and have no reason to use them. Now, if I dirtied enough pots, pans, dished, stainless ware, service ware, cook ware in one day, then I would use one. But I don't even come close. And no, I do not eat out. I don't bake, nor make bread, cookies, pizza.

To each his/her own whether you accept that or not.

I cannot imagine these scenarios where people take a week or more to fill a dishwasher. Mine runs every day. Some days I empty it, only to fill it again. And I don't put any plastics in it, so there is daily hand washing as well.

Toronto Veterinarian, you're making statements about dishwasher efficiency based on your own usage. It's simply not a case of "what some people like to tell themselves" - please don't dispute what you don't know. You don't live at my house, and you don't know how much cooking I do! Washing by hand works for me, and obviously works for celestina89, too. We've both explained why we feel that method is energy and water efficient for us. If you find using a dishwasher for one person is efficient, that's great for you, but please don't try to tell me that how I wash my own dishes is not energy/water efficient - it is for me!

handmethathammer, if you are happy with that situation, then it works for you! All myself and celestina89 are trying to point out is that some of us have different circumstances, and what works best for us. We are all individuals with varying needs and preferences. Each person must choose what works best for them.

Celestina89 - not sure where you're getting the figures, but mine refer to gallons used per wash/wash. My Miele uses under 2 gallons for a full eco sensor wash. It takes forever, but it's the dishwasher's time, not mine. And it's energy efficient as well. BTW, we are a two person household.

jmm1837, I think the point celestina89 is trying to make is that you have a top-line dishwasher (something the average person wouldn't be able to afford). You invested a lot of money in order to have a dishwasher that uses less water & energy. However, that isn't the way an average dishwasher works, and it's immaterial whether a person chooses to use the dishwasher with only one serving of plates in it, or fully loaded - it's still going to use a certain amount of water & electricity! Even those with half-load or quick-wash settings use more water than I do hand-washing dishes & pans. In fact, a dishwasher that is designed to be lower water usage may actually use more electricity in operation. It can sometimes be a trade off with efficiency - you gain in one way, but lose in another. You stated that your dishwasher "takes forever" on the full eco sensor wash. Yes, it's the dishwasher's "time", but it's your electricity! melissamlong (the first post about hand-washing dishes), celestina89 and I made innocent remarks about what works for each of us in our personal circumstances, and how we find our method completely energy efficient in those circumstances! By the way, I try to be a good steward of resources - to include water. For me, this method of washing my dishes IS environmentally-friendly!

I cannot imagine these scenarios where people take a week or more to fill a dishwasher.

It's not that hard to imagine. Two adults in my household. We run our dishwasher when it is full, which averages once a week or if we are home and making a lot of dirty dishes, every 5 days. There is no need for us to run it every day.

@groysman construction: thanks for the article. What you describe is for those who want a modern, contemporary, minimalist looking kitchen. Although I've used pendant lighting in my kitchen for 22 years. I've always disliked ceiling, canned lighting. I don't like handless kitchen cabinets upper or lower. Then I would have no place to hang my towel! :)

However, I do disagree with minimal appliances to only what you use daily. Many people are bakers and do not use a mixer daily. I have a small crockpot that I use every so often for stews and soups. Should I get rid of it? Nope as I prefer my stews, chilis and soups to simmer for hours. I do not leave the kitchen with anything on the stove. A crockpot comes in handy. To me, upper cabinets are OK as long as they aren't blocking light next to a window.

Back to dishwashers, one point I failed to mention is that I have a good number of items that are recommended to be hand-washed only. Therefore, if I ran the dishwasher regularly, it wouldn't negate the need for the additional hand-washing of certain items.

@fiddlesticks25: I agree with you. The average price of a new dishwasher is less than $300.00 for a basic Add another $100 - $700 for installation average depending on where you live.. Consumer Reports rated most Bosch models with the highest scores (excellent/recommended) for 2018 ranging in prices from $630 to 1600 depending model.

Consumer Reports rated two series of Miele as average in the 70s score- the Dimension and Futura priced from $1600-$2000. Several testers (both independent like CR and those not - they sell appliances) rate Miele as average as to repairs/service. All testers say the best feature of the Miele is the quietness from 37-46dBs. After that, the multifunctional tray is a nice feature and different from many others and that Miele is probably the best choice for a high end dishwasher. Other than that, the washing and results are basically similar to the average lower cost dishwasher.

The lowest price Miele (with the $100 discount if offered) is $999 for the Miele Classic (discounted) on up to the $2000 plus. The lowest price Miele ever had on their dishwashers was $799 but I don't know what year that was. Miele is definitely a high end dishwasher for those who can afford one.

Like you said, it's a matter of preference. There is nothing wrong with washing a few dishes vs using a dishwasher. Of the varying testings between hand washing and dishwashing, it comes down to time. How much time you spend washing dishes in a sink then putting them away after dried vs loading and unloading a dishwasher. The several sites that did the sink washing vs dishwashing all used basically the same items - same number of dishes/pots, amount of water used, amount of hot water used and electricity used for drying. Most said they were about equal but started to spread out with numbers of what required washing. Those numbers were based on number of pots/pans as well as place settings including glasses, cups per setting. Some sites also considered noise. Only one considered septic tanks vs municipal sewer when it came to soaps. They are easy to find using your browser - just put in your search " hand washing vs dishwasher" and you'll get several sites to read up on. I thought it was interesting.

@Saundra Kielborn: The "Delete" is to the right of the "Edit". They are located to the right upper side of your post. You can only delete or edit so long as you don't leave the Houzz site or close the particular page that has your post. BTW, the Chinese Wedding cabinet is nice looking.

celestina89, I actually have a Bosch dishwasher - only because it was on sale, and had an additional rebate on it at the time of purchase, making it a very reasonable cost! It is one of the quietest dishwashers I've ever used. Let's face it, electric dishwashers (residential, not commercial) were introduced for the convenience of homeowners - it's only in recent years that they (along with other appliances, large and small) have become more "energy efficient". Energy efficiency is calculated based on many things, e.g. how a dishwasher is used (eco setting, no heated dry setting), how it is loaded (full or only part loaded), the types of items to be washed, type of detergent used, whether you have softened water etc., etc. Some homeowners have hot water on demand, or even use solar power. So, it's impossible for posters here on Houzz to issue blanket statements that electric dishwashers are energy efficient, and hand washing dishes is not! Most people who buy dishwashers probably like the fact that they can load their dishes etc., and leave the machine to do the work. I would say that in this day and age where "energy efficiency" is a much-mentioned feature, not all shoppers are focused on that aspect when searching for a new appliance. For some people, a dishwasher is a must, because they value the time it saves them. Others may find it physically difficult to stand at a kitchen sink washing dishes, and for them a dishwasher is a blessing - no matter how much water or electricity it uses. I think that may be the only consideration in keeping my dishwasher - the possibility that at some point down the road hand washing might become a physical burden. Meanwhile, I'll happily continue with the method that I find energy efficient for my household needs - hand washing!

Came across this on Houzz, and although it's from 2015, it does try to cover the pros and cons of dishwashers vs hand washing. Once again, it all comes down to the individual homeowner, and their personal needs/preferences! Oh, and by the way, some posters in the following article mentioned the pleasant views they have while washing dishes at their kitchen sink. When I wash my dishes I have a perfect line of vision through the dining-room window, whereby I can watch hummingbirds visiting my feeders, and quickly grab my camera! I frequently see wildlife I would miss altogether if I was running the dishwasher instead of keeping an eye open for "visitors" while hand washing dishes.

[https://www.houzz.com/magazine/dishwasher-vs-hand-washing-debate-finally-solved-sort-of-stsetivw-vs~58245033[(https://www.houzz.com/magazine/dishwasher-vs-hand-washing-debate-finally-solved-sort-of-stsetivw-vs~58245033)

Oh, I see "Veterinarian's" unwarranted post accusing me of "spreading inaccuracies", and "lying" to myself, because I find hand washing dishes to be energy/water efficient for me personally, has been removed after I responded to it. Hopefully, we can now return to civility, instead of personal attacks? Surely we can all share ideas, thoughts, and personal experiences without the need to put down those we happen not to agree with?

@fiddlesticks25: I, like you enjoy looking out my window while not only washing dishes but using my cooktop or even doing food prep. I can either look out the back into the fields and woods or look out the front at my live oak and other trees and the private road. I even get to see my neighbors' cattle grazing when then come up from the back 40. LOL

Early in the AM, I get the see the deer grazing in the pastures along with my livestock. Sometimes I get to see a coyote pair trotting on through to their den which is on the east side of my ranch - about ½ mile off. And birds, yea - quite a few different types around here including hummingbirds. I don't use feeders because I have plenty of vines and bushes around with flowers they like.

These aren't trends.

fiddlesticks - I agree that I indulged myself by getting a Miele in our new house three years ago, but even if I'd bought a standard dishwasher, I would be using far less water than Celestina's post claims.

Here's a fairly balanced article, written nine years ago, which suggests that, yes, you might be able to wash dishes as efficiently by hand as with a dishwasher, if you can manage all the special considerations identified in the article. I doubt that most people could, especially not if they have kids.

https://www.treehugger.com/kitchen-design/built-in-dishwashers-vs-hand-washing-which-is-greener.html

As for watching the birds out the window while doing the dishes, well, one of the main points of a dishwasher is freeing you up to do other things - like working, or just sitting, in the garden with the birds ;)

Or re-filling the bird feeder. ;-)

@jmm1837: A dishwasher uses more than one water cycle depending on what the user chooses. It maybe at minimum 2 water cycles up to 4 water cycles. Check your brand and model to see how many water cycles your dishwasher uses for every type of washing you select.

Generally it's water cycle 1: Adds water to the machine water cycle 2: shoots water through jets with detergent or detergent is jetted separately water cycle 3: sprays water to rinse. Some machines will just use the last two water cycles. With pots and pans it's generally an additional water cycle.

So, if a manufacturer claims 2 gallons of water a cycle, for a 2 water cycle selection that's 4 gallons; for a 4 water cycle selection that's 8 gallons. If a manufacturer claims 6 gallons per water cycle as your treehugger article suggests for the average, that would be 12 -24 gallons of water for the entire process depending on what the user selects. The treehugger article also said the star energy on average uses 4 gallons per water cycle. - oh, heck - you do the math.

The figures I used for the Miele depends on which model, I took them directly from their own website. Can't get more accurate than that. If your machine uses less water cycles and less water, and you are happy with the results, then good for you. Enjoy.

@jmm1837 As to bird feeders, it's a lot better to plant native plants that provide the food source for any insects, birds, dragonflies, hummingbirds, etc. Reason being is that it's their preference. If their preference isn't available then they will fly to another area where it is. If humans killed off all their preferences then they will take what is available. Given a choice, they will always go to their preferred choices first. Glad to hear that the Aussies encourage native plantings for the fauna.

I disagree with RJs statement about restaurant grade appliances. Those are meant for restaurants with their proper ventilation, electrical upgrades etc. Most homes are not equipped for restaurant grade appliances.

https://www.katom.com/learning-center/5-reasons-avoid-commercial-kitchen-equipment-home.html.

As for disposable fads, my oven has a toasting feature that I love!! No more toaster on the counter. No more worrying about is it too dark or too light. And now I find that they have discontinued that feature....What the heck??? I fear I may take my range with me when I move!!

Celestina - I think we're talking at cross purposes here. The figures I've given refer to the amount of water need to do a load of dishes - ie one cycle = 1 load. My dishwasher uses 2 gallons per load, an Energy star uses 4, an ordinary dishwasher uses 6. By cycle, we're talking about the beginning to the end of doing one load of dishes. My dishwasher has various cycles - eco, sensor, intense, 30 min, etc but I am obviously only using one of those cycles to do a load (almost always sensor, which is the most water efficient) , and equally obviously, the intense cycle takes more water and energy than the eco or sensor cycles. So do the shorter cycles. The longer the dishwasher has to run through its cycle, the less water it needs to get the dishes clean.

And if what you mean by "cycle" is the wash phase then the rinse phase, well, that's the same water being used for both because dishwashers recycle the wash water through a filter for the rinse phase.

Just wanted to clarify my usage of nectar feeders for hummingbirds. Yes, it absolutely is the best solution to plant nectar producing plants, and shrubs or trees for shelter. However, in my neck of the woods most of the flowering plants die off in the winter (and we've already experienced several below-freezing nights). Hummingbirds are different to other birds in as much as they don't eat any form of seeds. They do eat bugs (particularly small spiders), but those are in short supply at certain times of the year. One particular hummingbird species (Anna's) overwinters in my area. Providing nectar via feeders can mean the difference between life and death for these hummers - literally! I've seen posts in a variety of places saying that nectar feeders must be taken down at the end of the summer to "allow the hummingbirds to migrate". This is a myth - totally inaccurate! Hummingbirds have an internal mechanism that tells them when they need to move further south, and as already pointed out, Anna's overwinter in small numbers in my area. By the way, despite having a large selection of hummingbird-friendly plants in my yard, hummers still visit feeders. It's also a common myth that by placing feeders in your yard it is somehow making the hummingbirds reliant upon feeders, but don't worry - it isn't! Their preference is nectar from flowers, but most will readily drink from nectar feeders in addition to visiting the flowers. They want it all! Not only am I an avid observer of hummingbirds & their behavior, but I also spent 5 years volunteering on a hummingbird banding team (with an expert), and have learned a great deal about these amazing little birds!

Kathi Steele, if I had a range like that I'd definitely take it with me! I still miss the small stove & oven in our family home as I grew up. It was gas-powered, but the neat thing about it was that above the cooking surface was a raised "grill". This was similar to the broilers inside ovens in the U.S., but being at eye level it was much easier to use. The flame could be controlled, depending on what was being cooked. We used it for grilling cheese on toast, steak etc. Plain toast was the best - perfectly browned, but crispy - not the soft version you get from a toaster these days! Best of all, this grill was ultra energy efficient compared with using a broiler in an oven. How I wish something like that was produced in the U.S. - I'd be the first in line to buy one!

fiddlesticks - having grown up in Canada I understand the need for bird feeders in colder climates. Not so important here in Australia, where a lot of the nectar-producing plants flower year round. There's a fair bit of competition between the smaller birds (honeyeaters and spinebills) and the larger ones (lorikeets, wattlebirds) in my neck of the woods. No hummingbirds here in Australia but that doesn't mean we don't get color:

They are beauties!

jmm1837, see what you mean about color! I imagine the "chatter" does get a bit overwhelming at times ……. but in a nice way!

jmm1837: If so, then please post a link to your information source from Miele. It's not what I saw from their website.

Celestina:

1. From the Miele Australia website: "The Sensor wash/Automatic programme uses as little as 6.5 litres* of water - significantly less than filling your kitchen sink. "

NB 6.5 L = 1.72 gallons.

https://www.miele.com.au/domestic/1752.htm?info=200019017-ZPV

2. From CNet: " An Energy Star certified dishwasher can use as little as 3 gallons per load (around 11 litres), according to the Natural Resources Defense Council. In fact, an Energy Star certified dishwasher can save almost 5,000 gallons of water per year. "

https://www.cnet.com/how-to/how-much-water-do-dishwashers-use/

3. Australia uses a slightly different rating system from the US: all dishwashers are rated for both energy and water efficiency. Water consumption is rated from one to six stars. The dishwashers are assessed on the amount of water needed to wash a load and on the average water usage per place setting. Both figures are available for each dishwasher on the WELS rating site. The lower the amount needed to wash a place setting, the higher the star rating.

There are over 1000 dishwasher models rating 4 to 6 stars on the site, with water consumption per load ranging from 6.5 L to 14 L. (ie from 1.72 gallons to 3.70 gallons). The one and two stars obviously are the least efficient, especially in terms of water used per setting but the highest water consumption figure I could find belonged to a couple of two stars that use 19L for a full load. That's 5 gallons.

http://www.waterrating.gov.au/choose/compare#dishwashers

4. These numbers are possible because, as I mentioned, dishwashers recycle the water they use throughout the washing cycle.

@jmm1837: Thanks for those links. Yeah, Aussie energy rating system is like you said, similar but not exactly the same as in the US, and it's probably different in Europe and even Canada.

Below is the chart I pulled from Miele website USA. This chart is for water and energy consumption. Of course, it's not exact due to many variables, but it is a guide. Each row is for a different program aka programme. not for each water cycle within that program.

The first row or top row is for Normal program, second row for Pots/Pans program, third row for China/Crystal program, 4th row for Quick Wash, 5th row is for Sanitizing Wash, and 6th or bottom row is for Rinse only,

The rinse selection only uses 1.1 gallons and the normal program uses 3.2 gallons. So if you use less that 4liters of water, you use only the rinse program. The only think I can think of, is if you use a Normal program setting and only use 2 gallons or less per load (water cycle plus rinse cycle), your Miele is made specifically for Australia. I can see that. Hence the differences. Yet in your above post, you wrote the same figures that I gave.

And yes, I am aware the wash cycle is water that gets filtered then recycled through the wash cycle again. The rinse cycle is fresh water, not recycled wash water. If it were so, then all your dishes and glasses would be cloudy with detergent stuff over time. :)

Here's that chart from Miele, page 47:

In the meantime........ hope your Summer Solstice was a fun one...... and merry marry ---- happy happy to you and your family and friends in Aussie land....:)

fiddlesticks, sometimes the "improvements" they make to appliances end up removing the best features!!

Celestina - The Aussie WELS numbers for all dishwashers are for the "eco" program, if the dishwasher has one, and for the "normal" program if it doesn't, so the comparison between dishwashers is like for like. The US ratings seem to do the same. The WELS program is user friendly, because the dishwasher has a star sticker on it when you buy it, which actually gives you the liters used for a full eco wash, saving you the trouble of having to look it up when you're trying to compare dishwashers in the store. (I must say, some of the numbers for Askos are pretty impressive).

My dishwasher is rated for 11 L/2.9 gallons on the eco cycle, which gives it a 5.5 star rating. I actually use the sensor cycle, which is the 6.5L/1.73 Gal figure. I never use the rinse program - it's a waste of water IMHO because you still end up having to use one of the regular programs to actually wash the dishes. It looks from a cursory examination that the US doesn't yet have some of the ultra water-efficient models we have here.

Really, the only point here is that dishwasher efficiency has improved enormously in the last 10 years, and is at least as eco friendly as hand washing.

And it looks like we're going to have a scorcher of a summer here so Christmas will be the classic Aussie prawns on the BBQ and a mango salad for us! Have a good one.

jmm1837 Mystery solved - at least in my mind. I added in the water required for rinse cycle to the wash cycle which was why I kept coming up with over 2 gallons. I had no idea you didn't use rinse cycle. Oh, well..... enjoy the BBQ's prawns..... yum....:)

Emily, this is such a good question... We think that the current scientific climate is set on preserving the world through a reduction in Carbon emissions and plastic usage etc. Which means industry will follow, it wouldn't be that surprising if new regulations set a minimum efficiency rating so that the old inefficient ones are not available anyway. We have already seen this with tumble dryers - the new(-ish) heat pump tumble dryers are now cheaper to run than a fridge freezer... You couldn't have pictured that in the 1990s!

That being said... we are finding machines are also being linked up to our smart phones! I'm sure you've heard of the new Samsungs, they even have a 'help-you-fix-it' guide, where you can see what may be wrong with your machine and how to fix it... It's not too far of a jump to have an automatic diagnosis review by them.