Run away.

"Run away."

Quickly.

To me, that would be no big deal. The shed is basically worthless and can be easily moved if required. Assuming the covered patio is just a roof with a pad, it too has very little value (on paper). It doesn't sound like anyone you've contacted really cares. Tell the seller to take care of the paperwork as a condition of closing.

Here are the best photos I have of the patio cover. Maybe one step up from just a basic

I agree on the shed.

I would have no problem if the seller rectified the issue with city.

There is a part of me that says run.... and another part of me that says who is to say that another house won’t have issues.

Thanks for the input. Much appreciated.

I would be concerned that they may have done other work to the house that's half-a**ed or not up to code, or that they may have lied on other parts of the contract.

Call your lender and insurance co. and ask them.

Gracie, those calls are on our list today. We are also consulting with a lawyer.

But I wanted opinions from here too.


I Agree everything that was done LOOKS like it was done properly. And it looks nice to boot.

House is only 5 years old, so no other changes that we noticed inside (but I don’t know).

Do not close until this has been resolved, by the owner. Do not ruin yourself financially. I can see why you want the house. It looks beautiful in that back yard, but all the beauty in the world isnt worth ruining yourself financially. Better to hold up closing, than it is to face financial ruin because someone else didnt do what they were supposed to do. You do need to inform your lender of all this, or you could just get into trouble yourself, for not telling them. Let the owner suffer for doing things the wrong way, not you.

Have your agent write up an addendum for both of you to sign where the seller will get the permits and inspections done before closing. Don't close without this issue being corrected by the seller. You already know the seller won't disclose the truth as evidenced by the seller's disclosure. Have you checked all the areas of the house to make sure no other changes were made without a permit?

Debits, who would we check that?

Denita* how*

In my area we can go online to see which permits were pulled and which failed or passed. We can also get a set of plans from the building department. Anyone can do so on any property, it doesn't have to be the owner. You can then cross check to see which permits were pulled and if there are changes from the original plans. Contact the home inspector that gave you the original information that the permits weren't pulled and discuss with him/her the process. It's possible the inspector did (or did not) do this already.

Not all building departments have their permits online. Sometimes you actually have to go in person. Make sure you know the entire scope of the problem before the addendum is prepared. Edit: I have also found the inspectors on call are generally very helpful to the public. Especially when discussing work done without a permit. I'm no where near you so your area may be different. Do try to give the seller time to get this corrected. The seller has an incentive to do the right thing. There is absolutely no excuse for someone in the trades not getting permits where required IMO. Just laziness or something worse.

Thank you. It was not the inspector that noticed no permits... it was me (a first time home buyer with not a clue as to what I am doing. No one even told me this could be an issue, except for researching online and doing my own due diligence!!)



I did check with the city and found out that the only permit pulled was for the pool. So anything else the owner did was not permitted.

Sounds like a trip to the city (70 miles away!) is in order.

Now I’m questioning a bath.. it looks different from the others (it has a step in shower vs a tub, and a solid surface surround where the others are tiled and a full tub).

I found out owner is part of a bathroom remodel company.....which is LLC’d at our property.

Down the rabbit hole I go, and connect the dots. ::shrug:: ::facepalm::

I'm glad you are doing your due diligence before closing. I hope you are able to get the information right away. In my area we can call the building records department to order plans and permit copies in advance. Sometimes it takes a few days to get them out of storage. You may not have that issue because the house is 5 years old, but it is worth a phone call before you trek 70 miles.

I am glad too. The city has been responsive for permit requests... the building inspector is out of office until Tuesday, so I can only deal with a permit technician. I'll call before we drive down there. Thanks for that tip.

That structure needs some connectors and hold downs. Possibly footings. A good wind, and it’s gone. Possibly doing damage to the house in the process. And the big question is always how it was attached to the house, and flashed. If that wasn’t done correctly, possible moisture damage could result. Not saying it was done incorrectly, but given the lack of Simpson’s on the rest, I would not have confidence.

I assume an inspection has been done by a qualified home inspector? That would be another way to find anything done to the house that is not up to code. Not 100% foolproof but it helps.

Yes... we hired an inspector. Nothing was called out of concern on these structures. He didn’t look into permits though.


Seller said the patio is permitted with pool. I have an RFI into the city for plans associated with the pool permit.

Changes to bathroom did not require permit because no plumbing was changed.

Sophie, I have used Simpson strong ties for other projects can I add after the fact? Structure was inspected by our home inspector. Supposedly built under permit with pool structure. Waiting on city to confirm.

Gotta cut my teeth somewhere as a first time home buyer. Happy the forum has given me lots of great advice to troubleshoot and problems to look for.

You don't want to use Simpson rafter ties on exposed beams/rafters. Use these:

FRAMEFAST – NATIONAL FRAMERS COUNCIL

FRAMEFAST STRUCTURAL FRAMING SYSTEM

The newest fastener system for attaching trusses and rafters to top plates, the FrameFAST system consists of the FrameFAST structural wood screw and the FrameFAST tool. The FrameFAST screw is a code-compliant replacement screw for hurricane ties. The screw's unique and superior design provides ultimate uplift and lateral resistance.

Good Luck to you Lindsey. I really hope it all works out, but, please dont let your love for the house cause you to lose sight of other things. I wish you well.

Bravo to you on doing the research and discovering this! Hang in there. And keep us posted!

I'm gong to be something of a contrarian here, and may get slammed for it, but here goes.

Over the years I've bought houses with existing work that I was pretty sure was unpermitted. Some of it dated back decades. Now and then I've had technical headaches with work that wasn't done right, but so far (knock wood) I've never had any legal, insurance, or mortgage problems.

By all means, when you modify your own house, pull permits! But if work that you've inherited from a previous owner seems to have been done satisfactorily and to code, IMO it's often better not to know every little detail of its history.

In your case, though, it's kind of too late to be circumspect. That door closed the minute you said the first word to City Hall. :(

Good luck.

David, when you are either a Pro, or have a great deal of experience DIYing proj CT’s, that’s a fine attitude to take. Unpermitted work that’s mostly fine doesn’t bother me for a personal purchase.

But today’s home buyers with little construction experience and who may not even own a tool box are rightly scared of unpermitted work. They lack the judgement to discern whether a project was done to an B+ level or a D-.

When you have to pay expensive labor to fix those P.O. errors, it does matter if permits were pulled. It matters because that is one minimal peace of mind assurance that they won’t need to spend 15K right away after closing.

And yes, we all know of inspected projects that were done just as jackleg or sloppily as uninspected projects. There are no 100% non risky home purchases. If someone is so financially strapped or risk averse to having to deal with expensive problems that will arise, maybe renting is the better option. The renter will always come out ahead financially if they have financial discipline. Buying isn’t about what’s cheapest long term though.

DavidR, I understand your point. I don't agree with it because if there is an issue, far better to know upfront while the buyer is in the inspection period and they can do something about it.

Different buyers would want to have different solutions: have the seller fix it before closing or have the buyer get a credit at closing so the buyer can fix it after closing are two such solutions. Cancelling the contract to purchase is another solution. In our area it doesn't matter who installed what in any time period, when the non-permitted structure is discovered by code enforcement, the current owner is responsible for the fines and the cure.

The daughter of a friend bought a house on Long Island a few years ago - lovely, very expensive house. It had a deck on the back -deck was in good condition. Their inspector found no problems. Fast forward 3 years and they’re selling the house to buy a far larger one. Buyer’s inspector discovers that the deck was unpermited. They had to tear the entire deck down, plus lower the cost so new buyer could build one. Husband is a lawyer - worked for Southern District - very prestigious. Was taken in as a full partner of a major law firm. Believe me, if they could have solved this problem in another way, they would have. In some locations, lack of a permit can be a huge problem, not just now, but way down the road.

An update:

We are DIYers, I'm capable of a lot of things. In-fact, I just pulled up the vinyl flooring in our RV and replaced some worn sub floor. Then repaired the vinyl. I brought the tools to the marriage..DH brought the nerdy tech :D We are fine taking on reasonable projects. I research, ask questions, and practice before going crazy. My background is in making technical drawings for wood/metal/acrylic fabrication (anything from something small to structures over 50 ft tall), so my brain is they type that just likes to know how things work. I'm also an artist of sorts. My creations are edible (cakes), but I am methodical and pay attention to detail.

My mom is an amazing woman and taught me how to do a lot of things, but mostly she taught me to research, follow instructions and to do things right- which is probably where my frustration when people don't follow rules comes from! I follow best practice when I can, and over engineer when I can't. My dad funded the projects and provided heavy lifting.. let's just say I one time watched him cut the same piece 4 times over for LVP install. But he eventually got it and to his defense, it was cut around an angle and heating floor vent.:D

I was just sent over the pool permits and plans, as well as the permit on the patio, and for good measure the fence. Everything has passed inspections.

The shed and extended driveway are the only things left. As most of you pointed out, they are pretty "worthless" on paper. They are in good working order. They appear to be free from defect and in good shape per our independent inspector. After seeking outside council, reading on Houzz, talking to our parents, grandparents, other home buyers, and the city, we have decided to take a concession from the seller to negate our risk and we will remedy the issues at some point.

In the mean time we will enjoy these features of the home for how ever long we get to. IF/When the time comes where we must remove/modify, we will. I have no problem with this now. I know me, I know what to expect. I don't like surprises (Diamonds, Lottery Winnings, Chocolate and Flowers are exceptions).

I know those of you who think I should have ran without further investigation may think I'm out of my mind, I still appreciate your comments. You helped me look at all angles. But I had to look at the whole picture-- and you know, include my husband in the decision. No home is perfect. No home will have no issues. No home will ever be built to 100% of my satisfaction (even if we built new). At least with this home, I feel like we have a good idea of what is wrong-- I know things will still pop up and surprise us :D

Thank you to those who said it's not the end of the world...those who thought it was no issue at all, and those who said to proceed cautiously. I know I can't please everyone on the forums, but I am grateful for the general feeling of "we want to help," and I want to let you know I weighed everything heavily and feel content with our decision.

Where we are ending up is FAR better with the guidance of Houzz than where we started 9 months ago an first time buyers. Sometimes the advice is hard to hear, but I know we need to hear it.

Thanks again and Cheers!

Sounds like you ended up in a place where you're comfortable, and you get to enjoy the house you wanted. Well done.

We'll all be over for a pool party. When's good? Saturday? :-P

:D Sure... fresh margaritas and ultra nutty pecan bars. Bring your own towel and chair.

Congratulations. Enjoy your new home

I'm sorry I missed this development...

Not that it matters, but where we are (dfw) our town has certain stipulations that confound us...but we all manage.

Your house is lovely and the shed and carport issue wouldn't have bothered me. When you think about running (next!) just remember that the seller would have to go through whatever issues there are with a whole new buyer...and he really really doesn't want to start from scratch again....

Just from the pics, I had more issues with the other house (as you know) than this one. You will love this house and have many happy years in it.

You absolutely will need some shade around that pool, though :) Trees are hugely valuable here...