to be honest, I think everybody loves Joe Pye Weed. Frankly, I think it's...unusual, because the flowers certainly aren't knock your socks off, but its merits are appreciated. It's well-behaved, not a bad spreader by seeds, not a bad spreader by underground rhizomes, the bees and butterflies LUUUUUUUURRRRVVVVVE the flowers, the color blends with both bright pops of color (Rudbeckia) and more subtle pastels (Sedum), and its late summer presence is a bonus. It works wonderfully as a backdrop if you have the tall variety, and easily welcomes shorter plants grown in front to it. Here in New England it is a standard in gardens, and very appreciated. The regular variety is tall, and right now mine is at least 6 feet. For many that might be a tad too tall, so the shorter variety you have was bred to meet that need. Congratulations!

Eupatorium ‘Chocolate’ seeded itself everywhere in my old garden. I ended up removing it eventually. Conditions must have been just right for it. It was pretty though, in bloom.

Mine is 6 feet tall and beautiful, growing in pure sandy fill. One year a bear ate it down to the roots and it came back even more vigorously. What a show! It has never spread and never self-seeded. It's been there 20 years. Butterflies love it.

I have Eupatorium maculatum and it has steadily, but not greedily, expanded its area. It's in a back garden bed that gets neglected and really, the JPW is its only saving grace.

However, it may be almost impossible to dig up if you end up not liking it (how can you not like it??) I tried to share some with my brother and found the root base was pretty impenetrable. Mine is almost 7' tall and has been there for ~ 8 years. It started as a single quart pot and now takes up about 5' x 5'.

I sometimes think about ripping it out (and planting a new plot somewhere else) because it blocks the view of my chickens but I don't because the butterflies and bees LOOOOOOOOOOOVE it. Deannatoby was NOT exaggerating. This plant is the definition of a pollinator magnet. And the blooms last a long time.

If we do tear out that bed, I plan to plant more JPW at the back of the property.

I would plant it. Hope that helps.

Yes, "Chocolate" is a vigorous self-seeder IME. I really want to get some big ol' fashioned Joe Pye - the big stuff - but need to figure out the right spot for it. I really do love it, every time I see it in naturalized areas I admire it.

I have the tall version, but I'd like to see the shorter kind. Mine flowered the end of July and is done by now. Good luck on finding 'Little Joe'!

I have it growing wild in the swamp. It doesn't do well in drought, so I'm surprised to find it doing well in Utah.

I had 'Little Joe' and I didn't think it was all that smaller. I enjoyed mine while I had it and it did attract pollinators, I just didn't have the place for them or the space. It is not a stand alone plant by any means and needs to be part of an 'ensemble' in a medium to large grouping, only in my opinion.

https://www.bluestoneperennials.com/EUBJ.html

Yes, I see that it lists the height as 2-3 ft, but mine was over my shoulders, so that description is suspect to me.

Either that or my plant was mislabeled. That is another possible explanation.

I would like to grow it...but first, I would have to rid myself of the yards and yards of hemp agrimony (eupatorium cannabinum) - a pallid relative which is a spreading nuisance. My few maculatum jusr got immediately bullied into submission.

I have Eutrochium purpureum and Eutrochium fistulosum and they are both susceptible to some kind of black leaf spot disease that doesnt seem to affect any other nearby plants. Once it sets in and weakens the plant the powdery mildew sets in and it gets ugly. It is also certainly possible it is a cultural issue of mine like overwatering or other amateur gardener mistakes. If you have these kinds of issues on your property or with yourself already you might want to try a more PM resistant type. You can see a list of them and their overall garden performance and mildew resistance here: https://www.chicagobotanic.org/collections/ornamental_plant_research/plant_evaluation  scroll down to issue 37.

Eutrochium purpureum, the regular tall JPW is a relatively common wild plant here in sunny, damp spots, and I like it a lot. However, when I grew it in my garden, it self-seeded vigorously since as a teacher, I didn’t have time in September to do deadheading. As Anna in MD mentioned above, it has tenacious roots that make even seedlings difficult to remove, so I decided it was better left in wild areas and removed it from the garden.

I somehow find it difficult to imagine that it would be happy enough in Utah’s drier conditions that self-seeding would be an issue.

Eutrochium...never knew. It's Eupatorium on all the plant tags. So which is correct?

It used to be Eupatorium purpurea, but got moved to Eutrochium a few years ago. I still have to look it up every time. Nurseries often don’t make changes quickly since it has been in commerce under a particular name for a long time and so the familiar name gets used.

It was changed to Eutrochium in 2004. Goes to show how long it takes for tag companies & nurseries to get caught up.

^^^hahahaha! 2004! Good heavens! Thank you.

Yay! My daughter found a Baby Joe for me and the tag says 24'"-30". My climate is dry but I have a sprinkler system so it will get regular watering. The two clumps I saw growing in my daughter's neighborhood looked really good so I am hopefully it will do well here. Thanks for all your advice!

I had some that for several years grew tall (6-7') at the back of my "wild" garden patch, but eventually the clump was out-competed by Dame's Rocket, beebalm, and a spreading arborvitae. I was sad until I noticed that it had relocated itself to a spot some 15 feet away. That is the only re-seeding that I've experienced.

Down along the Hockhocking Adena Bikeway there is a segment where I swear the JPW was 10' tall. I am 5'6" and I think they were easily twice my height.

I've thought about adding Baby Joe to my butterfly garden, but have heard that it doesn't really attract butterflies or other pollinators like the larger variety. Has that been anyone's else experience?

Here in the PNW I have found it depends upon where it is planted. I have some Eupatorium maculatum planted at least 15 years ago still going strong but not as robust and not spreading much. It has competition from other plants and doesn’t get much summer water (only when I notice it is droopy).

the other site is in my main perennial border (at the back) where soil has been amended over the years and is watered frequently in the summer. It has become a thug, invading other plants. Last year I dug out quite a bit but could not get rid of all that I wanted without destroying it’s new neighbors.

As with many thugs, it has remained well mannered until it wasn’t, lulling me into a false sense of security. So, be mindful,of where you plant it, and be sure to investigate it’s wandering periodically and maybe cast the evil eye it’s way occasionally.

Otherwise it is a lovely plant.

SW PA I thought it was a weed. We have it growing all over in the fields and sides of the road along with golden rod. A few weeks ago I went into the field and cut some to dry of a fall estrangement. It is pretty though.

A lot of plants of merit are considered weeds in horticulture and agriculture. Seeing drifts of goldenrod, joe pye, ironweed, white boneset, grass stalks, etc on the roadsides is almost better to me than seeing the trees change color.

skip, I agree. We have a blue flower that grows up against the asphalt roads, even in between the cracks of the asphalt that is soooo pretty. It grows in the worst of conditions. I think it might be a corn flower, but not sure.

Functionthenlook, compare to chicory, Cichorium intybus. I don’t see it much here in NH, but loved seeing it as a kid in Ohio.

There are a good number of plants that I consider weeds in the garden because of their thuggish nature, but totally enjoy in the fields, road verges, and stream bottoms. A plant is only a weed based on growing where it isn’t wanted.

Chicory = cornflower (the common name for it in southwest Ohio where I grew up). The other "cornflower" is an annual we called bachelor's buttons.

They do make lovely clouds of blue (and sometimes white) over the median strips and sides of the road.

I bought a variegated dwarf variety last fall and it didn't bloom this year. I'd be interested to hear any answers about its ability to attract pollinators. That's partially the reason I bought it.

IME the standard tall JPW is much loved by pollinators. I don’t know about the shorter or variegated forms, though.

how easy is it to grow this from seed??

American meadows has little joe at 'sale'prices

https://www.americanmeadows.com/perennials/unique-perennials/joe-pye-weed-baby-joe?scid=scbplp6987&sc_intid=6987&msclkid=0e1a79db6a0710bd85c62246115f9ec7&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=ppc-15-00%20shopping%3A%20SC%20Shopping%20-%20Perennials%20%26%20Bulbs&utm_term=4585100926843561&utm_content=All%20Products

Theyre not hard to grow from seed. I got about 50% germination by sprinking the seed on top of the soil in a tray and leaving it outside over the winter. I kept them alive all summer in that tray and then planted them last week. Unfortunately some kind of bugs ate all the leaves and now they're just stems, but maybe the roots will survive.

I also bought a plant from a nursery, I paid $12 for a 4ft plant in a 2 or 3 gallon pot, so $9 for a 3.5" pot seems a little pricey.

I haven't seen anyone mention it, but the chocolate eupatorium rugosum has had it's botanical name changed for quite a while now, and it is no longer classified as a joe pye weed. It's now called Ageratina altissima, chocolate white snakeroot, so any comments about the performances from the chocolates do not apply. Ageratina altissima contains the deadly toxic alcohol tremetol which can and has killed humans through injestion or from drinking milk from cows that ate the plant. Abraham Lincolns mother died from milk sickness. On the up side it's a very good pollinator plant for fall insects and it's flowers are clean. Not stunningly attractive but looks good in mixed groupings.

I totally agree with Jay. My chocolate is a pollinator haven for Painted Ladies and bumblebees.

Here’s our ‘Chocolate’ Ageratina altissima (still labeled as Eupatorium) that Jay referenced. Planted this spring in a part sun, narrower bed more as a specimen. I’m pretty happy with the appearance and abundant white blooms this late in the season:

They're great, I love them all!

E. cannabinum 'Plenum' new foliage

Older foliage

E. cannabinum 'Plenum' buds/blooms

E. 'Chocolate' foliage w/Coreopsis 'Zagreb'

E. 'Chocolate' blooming--late into Fall

Great pics Catkin! They all look beautiful!