New Kitchenaid low profile OTR 500 cfm microwave
blondelle
5 years ago
last modified: 5 years ago
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blondelle
5 years agowritersblock (9b/10a)
5 years agoRelated Discussions
OTR Microwave--No lectures please
Comments (24)WE have had a Samsung that vents 360 CFM and it has been great. It's been just over two years and no problems at all. (I believe that the particular model we have has been discontinued but I think there is an updates compararble one.) It can vent outside or recirculating, which might as well be.... Ours goes right out the back wall and the air can literally blow you away when it is on high. However it is noisy and we hate running it on high. Since we have virtually no exhaust pipe length, we almost never do run it on high. At the time we got it, we were replacing a vent hood that moved quite a bit of air and were concerned. The noise factor is the only difference. We gained so much counter space in return.I was also looking at a Panasonic that moved the same or a bit more air but could not find one locally to look at and will not buy anything sight unseen. Ours is stainless with a bit of black and came from Lowe's at a reasonable price. I'd have to look up the model, if you're interested.......See Moreneed to find high cfm otr microwaves
Comments (49)A real hood, mounted under-cabinet, will surely be better than an OTR microwave oven attempting to perform kitchen ventilation. A real hood rated at 400 CFM, and not too restricted by the house's ability to provide MUA, given short duct to outside without too many bends, might flow 250 - 300 CFM. I am confidant that any microwave oven claimed to be 400 CFM is actually just a 400 CFM in open air fan buried in the MW's tortuous duct path. I'd be surprised if it could flow even 200 CFM net. Note that the 400 CFM MUA rule is for hoods ducted outside; if a filtered (surely) recirculating hood were used, there is no MUA issue. VaH make an expensive but reportedly adequate for real cooking ARS recirculating hood. It might not fit your circumstances. ralph_zone8_ncwrote: "I agree the microvisor is just an eyebrow but wouldn't it block the air from going up to the ceiling and surrounding cabinets and if I turn the vent of the microwave to pull air, wouldnt it be able to capture some of the air?" With respect to eyebrow capture, it will (temporarily*) capture any part of the cooking plumes that strike it. However, they will reflect out again into the room if the blower flow rate is not high enough. Flow rate needed to assure successful capture and containment depends on the temperature of the grease being vaporized and the area over which the grease plume is being generated and whether combustion products are entrained. I recommend for most a value of 90 ft/min under the entire hood aperture when cooking with gas. This corresponds to 90 CFM per square foot of aperture. The value 60 may suffice if an induction cooktop is being used. But please note from the Figure 4 table on page 9 of Greenheck's guide -- your needed (or at least recommended) flow rate (CFM) may vary. http://www.greenheck.com/media/pdf/otherinfo/KVSApplDesign_catalog.pdf ----- *Because this eyebrow has minimal depth, the blower flow rate in its vicinity will be less than the average over the capture area. Reflection, at least of hot grease vapor may be insurmountable with a microwave oven fan system. Water vapor might be adequately dealt with if it makes it that high....See Morenew? ge phs920sfss profile slide-in induction
Comments (74)I understand why you asked this question here but you might still want to consider starting a new thread so your question does not get overlooked by others who can help you. But, to take a shot at it, the GE PHS920 slide-in induction range may be a "better option" for you than the gas-slide-in that is in your plans. Maybe not for the reasons on which you might have focused. I'm keying on the comment about "getting scared." First thing is that OTRs above a gas range are not "scary." There just are much more effective means of collecting and removing vapors and venting-out waste heat. As long as OTRs are vented to the extrerior (instead of recirculating), they are better than nothing and can be "adequate." If you do a search here on OTRs, you'll find several threads from the last couple of years discussing OTRs over gas ranges and including discussions (and pictures) of using them over pro-style ranges. Second, the thing that makes OTRs less effective is "coverage area." Most of them only cover the back half of the stove, so they do not do a good job of collecting vapors etc. from pots on the front burners. This is just as much a problem with induction as it is with gas burners. If you can manage it, a "proper" hood "should" be at least as deep as the stove and 3-inches wider to each side with the fan intake(s) positioned to efficiently draw what the hood captures. As kaseki has so often pointed out here, the more your vent relies on the fan(s) instead of a canopy for collection of vapors, the less effective it will be as a venting appliance. Many of us have had to make compromises on effectiveness in order to fit or retrofit some venting into our kitchens. So, some wind up with narrower hoods that are 22" deep. Others have to get shallower hoods. Some of us can fit only shallow-hoods with flat bases rather than canopies. Still others have to resort to OTR units. But, some venting is better than none. If you needed confirmation of this seemingly obvious point, there were some threads here from a year ago which discussed a study on kitchen venting carried out at the Lawrence Livermore Laboratories and funded by the Dept. of Energy and the EPA. (I'd give you the links but cannot find them at the moment.) Third, you can mitigate the OTR compromises a bit if you select an OTR with a slide-out vent extension. These have a slide-out vent-tray that extends some fan pick-up intakes out closer to the front of the stove and increases the capture area somewhat. The kinds of OTRs ave also been discussed in several threads here over the last couple of years. (You may already have seen these, so forgive me for mentioning them id you have.) I think LG makes a couple of models like this and there may be more from other companies. Fourth, when people have said "scary" about this topic in past threads, they often have been laboring under the mis-impression that running a gas stove without a vent is a fire hazard and that an OTR, with its limited effectiveness, might somehow be a code violation. Going without a vent -- in a home with residential stoves rather than commercial equipment --- is not a fire hazard -- at least it is not as long as you heed the cabinet spacing and wall surface specifications in you stove's installation instructions. Same thing with OTRs. Firth, when it comes to dealing with waste heat, venting is mainly a matter of comfort with gas ranges. Something like 60% (and more) of the heat from the burners can be going around the pans on the stove top and, because gas ovens vent more than electric ovens, a lot more heat can come into the kitchen from the oven vent than with an electric oven. A well-functioning range hood can draw a fair amount of that heat out and help keep the kitchen more comfortable. An OTR does some of this, too, just a whole lot less. Sixth, that brings us to induction ranges like the PHS920 producing far less waste heat than gas ranges, which can be a very real and very big advantage for many people. Basically, 84% (or more) of the energy from an induction burner goes into a pan. With gas, it is more like 33% to maybe 40% (depending on a lot of variables). Also, as mentioned above, gas ovens pump more heat into your kitchen than an electric oven will. So, if you live in a warm-to-hot climate or a place with long hot summers, induction will have an obvious two-fold advantage. The stove-top produces less waste heat and the vent does not need to suck as much conditioned air to maintain comfort around the stove. Seventh, in theory, the extra heat from a gas range could cause more wear and tear on the OTR's MW and cause it to fail sooner than it might when run over an induction range like the PHS920. While I've seen posts expressing that fear as well as posts complaining about how much of a pain it can be to replace OTRs that fail, I haven't seen any data about actual relative failure rates. Consumer Reports used to have annual membership survey data showing that OTRs had slightly higher reported failure rates for the first five years of ownership but now, with countertop MWs being basically commodity products from very few manufacturers (notwithstanding the plethora of brands), the annual survey no longer asks about countertop MWs. For OTRs, most brands run about 6% to 8% defects and failures in the first five years, Kitchenaid and LG run around 10% and Samsung is the outlier with a 16% problem rate on its OTRs in the first five years of ownership. Unfortunately, CR's survey does not ask about the kind of range the OTR is placed above. Also, a further caveat, the amount of heat going to the OTR is highly variable between houses and cooking styles. At this point, about all that can be said is that there is a potential that extra heat from gas stoves could shorten the life of an OTR but no data on how significant that is. So, to sum up on "waste heat," a PHS920 range could very well be "a better option" for you with an OTR. Eighth, gas ranges produce combustion by-products. Now, I say that, and the paranoid immediately panic and chatter about carbon monoxide (CO). But that's a distraction. CO is not a problem with modern gas ranges unless somebody has deliberately put the burners way out of adjustment or leaves them running without a flame. A range hood really won't help with either of those problems. Realistically, the problem is more subtle -- it is aerosolized grease, ozone, NO, CO2 and a few other combustion related compounds. Without good venting, this stuff will coat kitchen surfaces more quickly than happens with induction. That, in turn, means more frequent need to scrub surfaces. Also, unvented gas cooktops and ranges can have subtle long term health effects --- which will be adverse in the short term if you have chemical sensitivities, in which case you shouldn't consider gas appliances, at all. While induction obviously does not put combustion by-products into your kitchen (the combustion happens at the power plant where those things may be more readily contained), cooking on induction won't result in less aerosolized particulates. Even so, the relative lack of waste heat means that they don't disperse as readily as they do with a gas stove. That, in turn, makes for more ready capture by venting, even OTRs, So, this is another item that can make induction a "better option" for you with an OTR. Ninth, I gather that the upcoming versions of the International Residential Code (IRC) may be requiring kitchen venting. I've read in some posts here that a few jurisdictions have already adopted their own requirements in advance of those regulations. (I'm not talking about the existing make-up-air (MUA) requirements which only apply if you install ventilation over a certain CFM capacity -- I'm talking about requirements to install venting in the kitchen). You might want to check if your locality has any such new requirements and whether they make any distinctions between types of stoves and cooktops. Tenth, I've learned over the years here that some people think recirculating OTRs are the same as venting them to the outside. Since you said you've been researching them, I am assuming you know the difference. For anybody who reads this thread later and doesn't know the difference, recirculating range hoods and OTRs are almost all next to useless. The authors of that Lawrence Livermore report on venting called recirculators "forehead greasers." Finally, with the cabinets ordered for your remodel, I'm not sure what options have, but most of us would strongly recommend putting a canopy hood in place of that OTR, if you can, and put a regular microwave on a shelf or cart somewhere else, and do this regardless of whether you get your gas slide-in or go with an induction slide-in like the PHS920. P.S. Have you seen the current thread on whether induction needs a less powerful hood? If not, check out the last post in that thread which is by Kaseki. This post was edited by JWVideo on Tue, Apr 8, 14 at 14:04...See MoreGE Refrigerator and OTR Microwave/Warming/Convection oven
Comments (10)The GE online store has prices about 10-15% higher than you will find at most retailers. There's your "discount" right there. No one pays "suggested retail price". Different stores discount a different amount off of that price, but no one sells at that price---except the GE store. And, the rebates they offer require that 4-5 (I can't remember which, it's on the tearoff pad at work) appliances be purchased in order to qualify for the top tier award. If you just buy 2 appliances, it's either $50 or $100. We (and every other appliance retailer) have the same rebate going, and our prices are about 15% lower than GE online. So, I think you can do better than the "friends and family" discount if you shop around. And, don't let the rebate factor into your decision. By the time you pay the upcharge for the Profile over the regular GE with similar features, you've paid more than they're giving you back by far. Yes, you do get more features with Profile, and more yet again with Monogram, as well as more "styling". But, you pay for the priviledge of the branding too. Assess the features you will actually USE in your appliances, and "up buy" only to the model that offers those. Most people don't use ANY of the complex functions of either their fridges or MWs. As far as the reliability/features of GE vs any other competitor, I'd definately buy both the fridges or MWs. They are good products in their price range, with few issues other than the "standard" issue of the ice maker being the most repair prone element. Their new french door fridges from their brand new Chinese factory have dual evaporators (Like SubZero) and truly separate fridge and freezer compartments due to this, so you get no odor transfer and more accurate cooling for both. They've had remarkably few problems for being from a brand new factory and a brand new design to the company. Before the Chinese factory, they sold rebadged LGs as their French door units, like "Kenmore" does. Their MWs are roomy and have good power specs. The most often used feature is the "sensor cook" which works in tandem with their "instant action" keys to keep your food from overheating. It works similarly to how the old temperature sensor probes worked, but without the probe. Most of the other features above the level where that is introduced in the line get rarely used and really aren't worth paying more money for. Their OTR convection MW is overpriced for what it is, and really doesn't offer that much of a second oven experience to justify the price. A small countertop version from a cheaper maker for around $100 will fit the same amount of food in it and not cost so much. Of course, it isn't an OTR, but then again, it's not an OTR. :) OTRs are a PIA and safety hazard for any but the smallest kitchen that HAS to have them. If you can go with an actual vent and separate MW, you'll be miles ahead in both $$ and functionality....See Moreblondelle
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