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chesnaught

Please Critique Our Kitchen Layout! (Long, Narrow Kitchen)

chesnaught
5 years ago
last modified: 5 years ago

Hey All,

We are renovating the kitchen of the house we just purchased. We knocked out a lot of walls and are creating an open floor plan with a large kitchen. We were not satisfied with the plans we got from the architect and contractor, so DH decided to go about redesigning. He quickly noticed that the kitchen was quite long, and quite narrow. This presented a few design problems: to create more counter space and cabinets and still have a larger kitchen that feels spacious.

DH placed the island to the upward right hand portion of the kitchen and by doing so, he functionally made one side of the island a non-work, no traffic zone. At 36”, we believe it is enough to serve as a seating space, but not a traffic space: hence the location in the upper right, where it hopefully doesn’t need to be a high-traffic area. This shorter side allowed us to make the island 44” wide (at 96" long the width no longer feels too skinny), and the work-space aisles between the island and the countertops 46” wide. Lastly, the kitchen triangle was created, but the sink/range/fridge/oven were spaced out in an attempt to make the counters feel more integrated into the kitchen, making the counter space feel more usable.

Neither of us are kitchen designers, nor do we have any experience in any of this. Constructive criticism would be much appreciated by those with more technical expertise than ourselves!

Here is our proposed kitchen layout:


Here is the original floor plan for the downstairs part of the house (which includes the kitchen; you'll see that the architect originally drew the kitchen to include a breakfast nook and a much more cramped kitchen space, which we don't like):



Some 3D images:





Comments (60)

  • chesnaught
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    (Reposting because somehow my comment disappeared when I tried to edit it!)


    Hi! Thank you so much for all the replies! We were a little desperate for some advice and it sounds like we really need a designer to help us! We're looking at people now.


    HKO HKO: the sink in the island was an attempt to maintain the kitchen triangle - though we know the length makes it hard. We know a U shape would probably work, but it's even hard to fit a kitchen table in that model. The back wall would be just counters, not upper cabinets, as a result of the big window - so it felt like we were really losing out on storage. The fridge being far away is of course not ideal. But if we place the fridge closer, the rest of the counter space sort of hangs outside the main kitchen space, and we feel like we'd have a functionally short kitchen. But the point is well taken, and something a designer can potentially help us with. Regarding pot storage: I have a lot of beautiful cast iron. The most used pieces would go in the cabinets, but we wanted a space to display some of the other pieces that go less used.


    Jan Moyer: Thank you! We're on it!


    Flo Mangan: We could put the sink underneath the window on the back wall, leaving the island sink-free. We were worried about the distance from the sink to the fridge, but it seems like that is a good option, from what you're saying. The further you drag the sink backwards in the room, the further the triangle stretches and the more the island obstructs that triangle. We could move the sink within the island, displacing it to the left or right so it isn't right in the middle of the workspace. Or we could drag the island down a bit in the space (but not much, because it starts to impede traffic within the kitchen itself, and as you say this is a high traffic area from the backdoor/mudroom to the rest of the house. Stealing 2' would be a DREAM; ugh, we wouldn't have had so much trouble with this! (If you meant 2 inches, by chance, yes, that is possible - we'd just cannibalize the 2 inches from the island). But if you meant 2 feet, here are my thoughts: So, the counter is 24". The space between the counter and the island is 46". The island is 44". And the space between the island and the back wall is 36". We could theoretically still steal the space from the island. We could make the space between the counter and the island 42" (stealing 4 inches), and then the island we would need to steal 20 inches from... So that would make a 24" island... Which probably means we shouldn't try an island in the first place. But the room feels quite long and the space doesn't feel like it does well without something like an island in the middle. This space is quite challenging because of how narrow it is.

    We could make the space between the counter and the island 46", the island 36", and the back wall 44". We would have to move the sink to the back wall between the oven and the range. That would probably require us to drag the fridge up into the kitchen more to be closer to the workspaces. Our worry with this is that the counter that would sit in the bottom portion of the room near the family room would then feel like dead, dangling counter space - not part of the kitchen, not utilized. This would make our kitchen (functionally) 13x13 feet, with a lot of empty space at the bottom. Wouldn't feel like a good utilization of the space, and we would be going back to the small kitchen + breakfast nook model we were originally presented with by the architect (albeit the kitchen and nook would be flipped from his original model).


    Thank you so much!!

  • emilyam819
    5 years ago

    I’d try to flip it. Put the work zones on the other wall and island seating with backs to the mudroom entrance.

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  • sheloveslayouts
    5 years ago

    emilyam819: You and I are on the same page.

  • latifolia
    5 years ago

    You’re getting a lot of great advice. Not a pro, but it strikes me that an island may not be the best solution for your space. I know they’re popular right now, but maybe a peninsula or something would work better.


  • PRO
    Flo Mangan
    5 years ago
    If the total width cannot be expanded, then as i laid it out, you would be best with a peninsula type arrangement. You can create two zones with different functions depending on your personal needs. I am guessing at width. Can you post width?
  • PRO
    Flo Mangan
    5 years ago
    Here is concept. Not sure of exact measurements but you can see concepts. The second island can have lighted glass doors facing dining area to display fav pieces and make this baking island or whatever uses suit your family. The side uppers could also be lighted glass doors too and great coffee station below.
    chesnaught thanked Flo Mangan
  • sheloveslayouts
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Okay. here's my attempt.


    You'd absolutely have to have a counter depth fridge. If your island is 24" deep cab on the sink side and 12" on the mudroom side with a 2" overhang all around, you'll have a 42" and 42" aisle or a 36" and 48" or some other allocation of space that equals 84" of aisle width. This meets minimum recommended aisle widths because there's only one counter seat on the mudroom side. The length of the "island" is a bit ridiculous, but ~8.5' of it is storage and the rest seating. I stuck a half circle on the end of the island to mimic the circles going on in the house.


    I thought you could display your cast iron in the upper cabinet to the right of the range or in the hutchy butlers pantry-ish area near the dining room (along with stemware, serving dishes, etc.)


    edited for clarity





    chesnaught thanked sheloveslayouts
  • artistsharonva
    5 years ago

    Keep the narrow area open.

    No to peninsula (too short)

    No to island in middle with cabinets surrounding

    Because, it's not enough room.

    Either the 1st floor plan footprint with no appliances or sink in island. Placement of items need to be reworked for more user friendly function.

    or

    a U shape kitchen with seating where pantry was.

    Put pantry cabinets on fridge wall

    An example of layout footprint, adjust to user.

    chesnaught thanked artistsharonva
  • chesnaught
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    Flo Mangan: Wow, thank you for this. We had considered a peninsula before, but no
    one had shown us something that we actually liked. This is great! This is amazing, and we’ll talk it over with
    our people, thank you so much!

    Benjesbride: Thank you so much! This is a cool innovative take on our kitchen
    we hadn’t thought about. Most
    interesting change in the pantry structure – we never even thought about it
    before - and it is one we are well inclined to consider! You have a real talent for this and your
    ability to think outside the box is really refreshing. Thank you!

    Artistsharnova: Thank you, as well! You’re probably right. This space is so strange. It feels like it’s in that weird zone of
    being too narrow for an island but too wide without it. Nevertheless, your point is well taken. Perhaps we’re trying to put lipstick on a pig… The walk in pantry may very well be the source of our woes! Your ideas are very appreciated and we have
    to take a long and hard look at what we think this kitchen can support.

    Thank you all for your help! I don’t know what we would have done without
    this community behind us! (I do know –
    made huge mistakes)

  • sheloveslayouts
    5 years ago

    chesnaught - what a remarkably gracious response to our suggestions. It adds to the fun when homeowners are so receptive. Your house is going to be great!

  • blondelle
    5 years ago
    I agree it should be a U shape. I would make instead of the pantry an informal dining area with two restaurant banquets and a table between them. It's a perfect spot for that. Where the fridge is I would use high cabinets across that whole wall to act as your pantry. The pot area is too far from the stove. I think the space is too small for an island that size.
    chesnaught thanked blondelle
  • Karenseb
    5 years ago

    I rather like Flo's. It makes the space less long looking.

    Here is another idea so that you can keep the the nice pantry.

    The yellow lines are my second idea if you cut back the cabinet size at the bottom end of the stove wall.

    A 42 inch table might work better than a 48.

    Put another opening in to the dining room. I'd do that with any of the plans if you can.

    chesnaught thanked Karenseb
  • chesnaught
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    Blondelle: Yeah, I
    think that you’re spot on, we can’t do an island here. We’ll think about an eating space in the
    pantry area… Perhaps we can move the functional pantry into the mudroom and into
    cabinets. Thank you so much for your
    thoughts!

    Karenseb: Thanks,
    these are great ideas as well. The round
    table certainly is a compelling thought that could potentially warm the space
    up. You have managed to remove both sets
    of counters: it makes the space sufficiently wide to have an eating space while
    still having a pantry. Thank you! Only problem is that the entrance you have to the dining room is a pretty heavy shear wall, we can't touch it - it and the left hand wall of the kitchen bear the load of most of the walls we've removed. But the point is well taken and we'll definitely explore it!

    Again, that you to the community for all the help. We’d be in the dark without your talents.

  • PRO
    Flo Mangan
    5 years ago
    You could use mobile cart/island for interesting look and extra work surface as well as storage if you decide against peninsula. I will post some examples.
  • PRO
    Flo Mangan
    5 years ago
    Here are some examples.
    chesnaught thanked Flo Mangan
  • rockybird
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Dont laugh at my idea...I’m not an expert in anyway and I’m not sure this will all fit.

    Your narrow kitchen reminds me of my narrow kitchen. Because I am obsessed with having a scullery/pantry, this is how I might build it (and sort of how I’m doing my own). But It’s hard to know if it would all fit, since the dimensions arent known.

    Green = counters/appliances. You might be able to get shallow shelves in the scullery also, against the wall with the pocket door.

    If there’s not enough room to wrap the buffet around, you could delete part of it for more walkway space.

    chesnaught thanked rockybird
  • Jillius
    5 years ago

    Where do each of the three staircases go? By any chance, is the one running parallel along the kitchen redundant? Could you remove it and take that space for the kitchen?

    chesnaught thanked Jillius
  • chesnaught
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    Flo Mangan: Thank you
    for these. actually, to tell the truth,
    DH and I are pretty drastically coming around to the idea of the
    peninsula. We recognize, based on the
    help we’ve received from everyone here, that the only island that would work
    would be 36 in, and very long. That
    would look quite awkward. So, as a
    result, we think that the peninsula is a strong idea and we’re exploring it,
    thanks to you and everyone here!

    Rockybird: I would never dream of laughing at novel, new
    thoughts, let alone the creativity that you’ve lent us. The fact that people didn’t laugh us down for
    our original ideas is a testament to the safe space this community welcomes. I think that the end kitchen will end up
    looking much like you’ve outlined, only instead of an island at the bottom, we’ll
    have a kitchen table that we can drag more rightward to allow for more passage
    from the mudroom to the family room.
    Thank you, you’ve crystalize our thoughts on this and really
    helped! Nice to have advice from someone
    who shares our narrow kitchen blues!

    Jillius: Good
    thought. The bottom stairs goes to the
    second story. The stairs that is running
    parallel to the kitchen is the only entrance to the California basement, and
    can’t be altered, sadly. Thanks for
    thinking about it!

  • wilson853
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    The biggest issue that I see is the position of the mudroom entrance into the kitchen. Before our remodel, we had a set of French doors that cut into the middle of our kitchen with the island just four feet in front of us. We closed up the French doors and placed a new single door just a few feet away, allowing us to walk into open space at one end of the kitchen. This move also provided a continuous run of counter that I needed to make a new design work. It's a little difficult to read your print, but it looks like you could move your kitchen entrance to the end of the mudroom wall. I would also add that I went from a 42" x 102" island to a 39" x 141" island. I was also afraid that it would look like a runway, but we love it and it works with the space. If you are open to moving your entrance, I would propose something like this. The designer indicated that this kitchen is 13' wide.

    California Breeze Transitional · More Info
    California Breeze Transitional · More Info

    chesnaught thanked wilson853
  • artistsharonva
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Hi, chesnaught.... I truly admire the tone you use when responding back to other Houzzers trying to help. Thank you for your kindness. So appreciated. You're a good OP example; )

    chesnaught thanked artistsharonva
  • artistsharonva
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    By closing off a window or separating 2 skinny windows on both sides of stove hood, this would let a stove be centered on back wall.

    or if not, then....

    The double oven or microwave oven combo taken out of the equation may give you more options.

    A slidein stove/ oven will work.

    Note,

    I shy away from combo appliance units, because if 1 goes the whole thing has to be replaced.

    I did a kitchen for an appliance engineer once. He taught me a lot. He explained simply different appliances have different life expectancy & that's why he never buys them combined. He also suggests more manual parts over computers, because computers mother boards go bad faster, expensive to replace. Avoid water dispenser on outside of fridge door, prone to rusting the front of door & leak often.

    Anway, I hope something I mentioned, brings you closer to your goals.

    chesnaught thanked artistsharonva
  • Mid America Mom
    5 years ago

    Nice space. Few questions. How many cooks? You desire seating in the kitchen for 4? I see counter depth for refrigeration. Are you going with one freezer and another fridge (what sizes) and ok with separating them? Can the oven go under the counter? How about the microwave where can it go (counter, below, or in the upper cabinet space and how often used? Do you entertain and need bar set up in the kitchen? In the proposed pantry is that two windows? The long wall with a window is that open or fixed? Do you want a BBQ outside and if so where - near the living , off mud, or off dining. Thanks!

    chesnaught thanked Mid America Mom
  • PRO
    Flo Mangan
    5 years ago

    All great questions @Mid America Mom. These are questions a good KD will make. The "envelope" as shown is very restrictive due to the narrow space across and exits and entrances so the design can be furthered with more information from OP. Thanks.

    chesnaught thanked Flo Mangan
  • chesnaught
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    Wilson853: Wow,
    your kitchen looks so great! It feels
    like a long way away for us, but if we
    have anything like what you’ve got we’d be more than thrilled! You’ve opened our minds to the possibility of
    a long island, which we had been worried would create a runway (we were calling
    it a bowling alley!). But this is a very
    interesting idea… thank you so much for
    sharing it!

    Artistsharonva:
    hmmmm…. Closing off that back window and
    separating it is a really really interesting idea! We will take this and shop it around, we
    hadn’t even considered it as a possibility.
    Totally creative and does help with the ventilation of the stove. It’s another tool in the toolkit as we try
    and approach this frustrating space.
    Thank you so much for your contributions regarding the floorplan.

    Your appliance advice is very sound and well taken. As a result, the fridge(s), which have not
    yet been purchased, will not have water dispensers. Another houzz win, thank you so much for the
    tip, and for you kind words.

  • chesnaught
    Original Author
    5 years ago


    Mid America Mom
    : Those are excellent questions. Thank you for so carefully considering our project! We are a woke couple, and both cook, but realistically speaking probably one cook in the kitchen at any one time. Seating for 4 would be ideal… We’ve really tried to make that happen. We do have a formal dining room, but kind of thought that the kitchen as a landing spot ought to seat that many. We were planning on counter depth refrigeration – actually we were planning on getting two counter dept fridge+freezer on the bottom models. This would maximize our fridge space, which we liked. We have sadly bought most of our appliances based on our previous plan [face in palm] – the oven is a single wall oven, and the range is a range + oven. We could put the oven under the counter, but it isn’t something we are very keen to do. Microwave is used on the light side; we had planned to build it in to a hutch in a cabinet over the oven, and we don’t really care where it goes. We do entertain, but it’s food entertainment. DH doesn’t drink, so the majority of our social interactions aren’t saucy, so to speak. In the proposed pantry there are two windows, that are potentially getting moved out of that space. The window in the long wall is fixed. Planning on a BBQ outside, at some point when money allows. Going to put the hookups for gas outside of the mud room.

    Thank you all again for the time and the effort you are putting in to making our house a home!

  • chesnaught
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    Out of curiosity, DH shopped this idea based around some of the feedback we've received from all of your collective wisdom. Any thoughts? It has flaws, but then so does every layout given the space. He shortened the pantry and eliminated that hutch as much as possible. The extra 18 or so inches of pantry space seem to make an island jive a bit better. Remember: we aren't kitchen designers! We will in all likelihood hire one based on these conversations. But please: don't sugar coat your criticism - it is vital to our process. We don't know what we're doing and have to hire people to help us, but need to know when we're messing up. We appreciate you all not just for your creativity, advice, and amazing generosity, but also for your candor!


  • sheloveslayouts
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    This layout puts the walkway from the mudroom right thru your cooking area.

    What are the things you don’t like about the island plan I posted above? Maybe it can be tweaked further.

    chesnaught thanked sheloveslayouts
  • PRO
    Flo Mangan
    5 years ago

    I think that is a darn good layout! Well done. It meets most of your family needs. Given the space, it makes sense. Do a "pocket door" into the pantry so you don't have door swing into pantry or seating area. That takes a wall long enough for the pre-built pocket door to set into the side all. It looks like it would fit on the right wall as you enter the pantry. There are some cute 1/1 glass doors, frosted with etched "Pantry" or whatever you want, on the glass. That might be nice. As you use your microwave now, test how many times you use it a day/week. That will help you understand if setting the MW down into the back area feasible. A 48" round table will seat 4 easily depending on size of chairs. A tulip or pedestal type table works best. Good job.

    chesnaught thanked Flo Mangan
  • PRO
    Flo Mangan
    5 years ago

    No plan is going to be "perfect" and your "traffic" pattern is a concern, but these are the compromises we all make along the design road.

    chesnaught thanked Flo Mangan
  • wilson853
    5 years ago

    chesnaught, oh so sorry if I confused you. The kitchen that I posted is a beautiful kitchen but it is not mine. It is one that I had saved when I was dealing with my own narrow space and thought that it might spark an idea for you.

    chesnaught thanked wilson853
  • sheloveslayouts
    5 years ago

    This is to illustrate the traffic issues. Personally, this layout would drive me bananas. People travel the shortest distance between to points (red) and thus they'd be cutting through the work space (green.) This house looks large and roomy for a family with kids. Kids will not take the blue route without constant reminders.


    You have a gigantic space and to only have around two feet on each side of the sink seems like a misuse of space.




    chesnaught thanked sheloveslayouts
  • Mid America Mom
    5 years ago

    Thank you. I am envisioning walking through the house and into the kitchen.

    1. I love it when I am drawn to a space when I visit a home. It gives it a feeling when done right - like you have to walk closer to look/explore. Examples- end of a hallway with illuminated art, a family room corner with an awesome lamp or tabletop decor piece, views to an awesome terrace or yard. The eye is naturally drawn to light so windows are eye catching no matter what.

    Looking at your original plan with this in mind. Is this look/ feel something I would want. If I was in the front hall and looking into the family room and beyond to the kitchen I would see a pantry. Is there a door to the dining room? If not, while sitting facing the fireplace, you would see the pantry when looking there. Coming from the mudroom the same.

    I would find it much more appealing if the space was not walled. I would be drawn to counter seating and warm natural light from those corner windows.

    2. I also would be aware of the traffic pattern created. I assume most of the time people come from the mud room. They would have to walk along the bedroom wall toward the front of the house to get to the next logical place - to get upstairs, to the front hall bath, or to relax in a living space. As the architect drew it people would walk through where you are trying to cook. I have lived with this and it is not ideal - I not lovingly called it my "kitchen as hallway". With the amount of space you have you can minimize this.




    chesnaught thanked Mid America Mom
  • wilson853
    5 years ago

    I like what benje did for you on her layout above. I think that it gives you the most storage and usable counter. This island is 147" and the kitchen is just a little bit wider than your space.

    Stanwich Road · More Info

    chesnaught thanked wilson853
  • Mid America Mom
    5 years ago

    So If I was you I would eliminate the pantry and move all of that need to the bedroom wall. You could do floor to ceiling or not. If you do floor to ceiling you might want to put in some glass cabinets. I picture eating in that original pantry area so instead of a table - that is an island.

    chesnaught thanked Mid America Mom
  • Mid America Mom
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    I am not quite sure on your dimensions of the whole room and I work on graph paper. As for where you put what I have some ideas but this is the basis.

    chesnaught thanked Mid America Mom
  • Mid America Mom
    5 years ago

    A KD has told me if someone is looking into the kitchen - what you ideally want want their view to be when it comes to appliances - it would be a stove and the hood. Much more interesting and maybe sexy :-) So coming in from mud you would see that and I think your second glance when walking from the front hall to the kitchen would be to that stove. Two cooking prep areas here with the addition of a prep sink at the island. A corner lazy trash with 3 bins is a great use of space and here I would think you would mainly prep between the sink and stove and you need to get rid of that trash. If you like a double sink but think the bowls tend to be small check out the Kohler Undertone Preserve. I think it would fit in maybe a 39 or 42" . If I entertained a lot or had more kids I would go with two dishwashers and a large single bowl. Fisher and Paykel might be a nice thing to look at for integrated refrigeration. The refrigerator placement for me would work in this plan as I tend to not access that much when prepping (only to gather stuff) and it would keep people OUT of the prep area. They can go for drinks - ice and getting things like mustard for on the table.

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  • sheloveslayouts
    5 years ago

    chesnaughtcan you confirm these dimensions?

    Red: 150"

    Yellow: I believe ~156"

    Blue: I believe ~130"



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  • chesnaught
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    Benjesbride: The problems regarding the flow of traffic
    are well taken, and in all likelihood the Achilles Heel of this plan. Don’t misunderstand: your layout is one of
    three or four that are strongly in contention.
    Of all of the layouts, we think it’s probably the smartest use of
    space. Your traffic concerns are
    obviously the major Achilles. One
    concern that we had is that our space feels narrow. We were trying to shop a situation that would
    allow us to give the illusion of generosity, of wide inviting space:
    ironically, we have a narrow kitchen and we care most about width. The narrowness of the pathways throughout the
    kitchen you so generously created give us a bit of pause, as we feel it perhaps
    highlights our inadequacy – a lack of width.
    Nevertheless, we will be showing it to the new kitchen designer. The overall layout has made us rethink
    everything, and your plan regarding the pantry and the placement of the range
    are solid gold.

    Regarding those dimensions: at the moment the confirmation
    is on hold. DH wasn’t able to make it to
    the site yesterday, and is now scheduled to go there on Friday afternoon. We will post ASAP once we have the hard
    numbers. But we think those are
    relatively correct.

  • chesnaught
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    Flo Mangan: Thanks!
    It’s only an idea, one of many in the running, as is your peninsula
    idea!

    Wilson853: I like
    Benjesbride’s plan too :-). Thanks for
    sharing this layout, it is quite helpful to see multiple people employing
    similar strategies.

    RE: your kitchen: My mistake! But I’m sure your kitchen does look
    great! I’d love to see it sometime – we
    have similar concerns, and seeing what you’ve done might help inspire us, not
    only in terms of ideas, but in terms of seeing a light at the end of the
    tunnel. Sometimes you just need a
    carrot. So if you have a moment please
    share! Pics or it didn’t happen!

  • chesnaught
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    Mid America Mom:
    Oh man, so much to think about! I think
    we have in all likelihood completely disregarded views from different vantage
    points and display areas… To our detriment!
    Thank you for the advice, and for the planned layout.

    Curious: do you think it’s okay to have a kitchen eating
    space in view of the formal dining space?
    Love that you’ve leveraged the width of the kitchen to help support the
    island. You’ve created multiple spaces
    that we really like. I think regardless
    one thing that I’ve learned about our kitchen this week is that the pantry, in
    its current iteration, has to change, somehow.

    Trash is something we will have to work hard to figure out,
    you’re right. And given that your plan
    incorporates it, I appreciate it all the more.
    Quick question: We were planning on going with Liebherr 30’ integrated refrigerator
    with bottom freezers (without icemakers or water dispensers, which I hear make
    liebherr’s a real nightmare). The Fisher
    Paykels are a bit deeper, offer more room, and are significantly cheaper. Do you have experience with Fisher Paykel or
    Liebherr in regards to refrigeration? I
    know this is off topic and not forum appropriate, but I’ve read all there is to
    read on this in other forums and just thought I’d ask for your opinion, since
    it came up :-)

    As ever, thank you all so so much. We’re so lucky that you are willing to help
    us. Our Kitchen is the better for it.

  • sheloveslayouts
    5 years ago

    When we gutted our house I spent hours standing in the space using cardboard boxes, saw horses and boards, and chalk on the floor to try to get a feel for the space. If you haven't tried doing so already, I think it's a valuable exercise.

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  • chesnaught
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    That is an awesome idea! DH has been tasked to do so on Friday!

  • latifolia
    5 years ago

    We have a 30” Liebherr with non-plumbed ice maker and haven’t had any issues. Bought a 24” Liebherr for our lake house without ice maker (similar to one I had in Europe).

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  • sheloveslayouts
    5 years ago

    Liebherrrrr. Nice!

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  • Mid America Mom
    5 years ago

    Love the idea with blocking the space! It is helpful!

    Sorry no experience with the refrigeration. In my ideal kitchen I am not sure which maker but I would do one stand up refrigerator and then another stand up freeze like I experienced as a volunteer in a small community kitchen/ restaurant. When it comes to depth you can always have the contractor pull the upper and lower cabinets farther from the wall and have a deeper counter. (and Yes I lived in a house for 9 years that had had this and it was fine.. it was not a lot more maybe 4").

    Are you going to have a separate icemaker? Our last house had two of them in a huge french samsung. It was overkill. We hardly use any ice. Our present house with ice in the french freeze - we did not have the plumber connect it with the remodel as that is like number one issue with any frige. We have the good old fashioned trays and if party just go get a bag or two. As for the question: do you think it’s okay to have a kitchen eating space in view of the formal dining space? I think it is fine and it happens a lot in newer homes. I am not a fan of multiple eating spaces personally and encourage others to think of their dining room as a flex space (and say hey put in some built in bookshelves just in case it goes den or the kids need a workspace for projects with the table pad underneath). I suspect you have an older home? If I had your home I would put a divided light french door in-between maybe with water glass if you want to obscure.

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  • chesnaught
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    Mid America Mom: We're just going to use ice trays. Much easier, and I suspect it will save us headaches from out fridge acting up. Love the idea of separate fridge and freezer, but 1) I think that skews the ratio too heavily towards freezer space, when what we need is more fridge, and 2) it's strangely crazily more expensive to do it that way. The fridge freezer combos are cheaper, proportioned to give more fridge space, and the price is much nicer. I don't really mind so much, having two duals.


    Good to know regarding formal dining space in proximity to casual dining space. I would love to use the formal dining space more! Totally agreed. Just want to proof myself against future laziness ;-). I don't know how the evolution of our usage of the space is going to go, so I want to make as many options as possible, keep things 'relatively' modular.


    Is it that obvious? ;-) Our home was built in 1927, and is Spanish-style. I know that doesn't seem old, but we live in California. Not a lot of stuff from the early 20th century out here.

  • Mid America Mom
    5 years ago

    My last homes were from the 20's. They have their own charm and quirks!

  • Mid America Mom
    5 years ago

    Love to see what you end up with!


  • artistsharonva
    5 years ago

    Excited to see the outcome. Wishing you lots of success.

  • chesnaught
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    Folks! We are not a decisive peoples! We are going to meet with a kitchen designer in the area who is going to consult for us. We are shopping all the major ideas, including the major concepts from basically all of you. No plan, at this point, has been trashed. As soon as we figure it out you'll be the first to know ;-). Thank you all again for being invested in our happiness!