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kats_meow

Improving Small Kitchen Function

kats_meow
5 years ago

We recently moved into a smaller house. We are going to be doing some remodeling throughout. Realistically, though, my budget would be exceeded if I did everything I wanted to do. Given this, I would like to improve the functionality of the kitchen without moving everything around.


Here is a pic of the current layout:




The cabinet are 30+ years old. The shelves are not adjustable. The lower cabinets are not drawers (there is one bank of narrow drawers that I use for utensils. The pantry is very small. The peninsula where the cooktop is located has a small useless overhang. That is, it isn't deep enough for anyone to do anything there. If it was deeper, though, there wouldn't be room for anyone to sit there as the breakfast room isn't large.


There are only two of us in the house. We do more "assembling" in the kitchen than major cooking. There is a microwave built in over the single oven. I am OK with the single over as I rarely need two and and when I do have a toaster oven. When I saw assembling, for example, I will usually make a large salad on most days. Doing that takes space. Or, I sometimes make 30 wraps at a time (tortilla, beans, corner, chicken, rice, cheese) and then freeze them.


It would relatively easy to expand the kitchen and make it larger. It would be expensive and, in a way, I don't really need a larger kitchen. In my last house, the kitchen was almost double the size of this one and was actually larger than I needed. I had many near empty cabinets. I had lots of counters I rarely used.


Anyway, on the drawing -- this is what is around the kitchen. To the bottom of the kitchen, the kitchen opens into the formal dining room. It is quite small (about 11 x 11). DH is using it as his office. We don't need a formal dining room as we rarely have guests.


To the right of the formal dining room is a small foyer next to the entry to the house. To the right of the kitchen is a formal living room (about 17 x 20). Above the kitchen is the family room (about 13 1/2 x 21). There is a passthrough above the sink from the kitchen to the family room. The pass through is basically where I think someone removed upper cabinets. That is, the "bottom" of the pass through is where the bottom of cabinets would be.


Oh - other stuff in the kitchen. The counters are soapstone but are very worn. The oven/microwave function OK but are not very new. The refrigerator is brand new. The dishwasher is only a year or two old. The cooktop is electric and was installed a few months ago (I would prefer induction).


One other thing - We don't actually have any need at all for two living areas. We rarely use either one of them unless we have guests. We don't do a lot of entertaining and rarely have more than 1 or 2 guests at a time. If I had an unlimited budget it would be very easy to expand the kitchen into the family room or to even get rid of the family room entirely and make it part of the kitchen. But, I don't want to spend my entire budget on the kitchen.


So my big issues:


1. Lack of work space. In my old house I had a huge island where I did all of my work. I don't have that now. I am mostly working at the counter to the left of the refrigerator. That is OKish for making a salad, but not for much else. The peninsula would work in terms of space...but the cooktop is there. And, even if it wasn't that is a bit farther to carry stuff from the refrigerator than I would like.


Ideally I would like a workspace that was deeper than the counter next to the refrigerator. Oh - in case anyone suggests putting in a range instead of cooktop/oven I really, really don't want a range. I don't like bending down to an oven. If there was no other solution, though, I might consider it but I really don't want that.


2. Lack of good storage. I am used to having a good sized pantry. This pantry hold about 1/3 as much as my old pantry. So I have things in the cabinets that would normally be in the pantry. I think the total amount of cabinet space might be OK if the cabinets were more functional and the pantry a little bigger. I wonder if it would improve functionality to put in new cabinets putting drawers on most of the lower cabinets and having adjustable shelves for the taller cabinets.


I would like to expand the pantry. I could make it a bit wider by bringing the width to the opening from the breakfast room to the family room. I could potentially make it deeper by encroaching into the family room. There is nothing in the family room "behind" were the existing pantry is located. (Well, there is a sofa but it could be moved down the wall a bit to the right).


3. Opening the kitchen to a living area a bit more. In my ideal world, I would open the kitchen to the formal living room and then would repurpose the family room to something else (I've considered actually putting another bedroom in the family room so I could repurpose one of the other bedrooms to a master bedroom closet). But I see no easy way to do that. At a minimum, I would have to lose all of the upper cabinets between the kitchen and formal living room. I could perhaps do that and make the counter wider and put counter level seating on the formal living room side. But, then you have seating right by the entry to the formal living room when you go in from the foyer. Also if I don't move the refrigerator there is no entry to the kitchen from the living room. Right how there are two entrances to the kitchen. One if from the formal dining room (actually DH's office) which is the easiest want to get there. The other is from the family room. That one is a pain as I have to walk across the formal living room, across the family room and then into the breakfast room to get into the kitchen.


I think the above would be difficult to do and very expensive. The other option is to keep the family room as a family room and open the kitchen a bit more to the family room. I could expand the pass through and open up everything on the side down to the countertop and all the way to the pantry. I could tend make the counter wider and put in counter level seating in the family room. I could use the deeper counter to the left of the dishwasher as my work space.


But, again, doing this I would lose 3 upper cabinets.


Would appreciate any thoughts. I can easily see replacing the cabinets and countertops and expanding the pantry a bit into the family room to solve issue 2 (lack of storage space). I don't see a good solution to 1 (lack of work space) unless I do 3 so I can expand the counter. But, doing that decreases the storage space and may be more money than I want to spend.


Comments (24)

  • cpartist
    5 years ago

    I would move the fridge to where the pantry is now and move the stove to the wall where the fridge is now. I'd make the wall on the lower left of the kitchen all pantry and/or coffee/pantry and open up the wall where the stove is to the breakfast room. Put the stove right where the fridge starts now on the side closer to the sink so you have counters on both sides but it gives you a nice expanse to prep between sink and stove. That will be the ideal layout for going from fridge to sink to prep to stove.

    kats_meow thanked cpartist
  • mama goose_gw zn6OH
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    That would be a nice layout for a kitchen with a range, but if kats
    wants to keep the oven/cooktop, maybe put the fridge and pantry on the
    short wall?

    Or, widen the pass-through, and move the sink to give you space to move the cooktop away from the door, and provide a deep counter beside the fridge:

    kats_meow thanked mama goose_gw zn6OH
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  • kats_meow
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    Those are both interesting ideas. I don't love having a range but might consider it if it would help with the workspace issues. One thing I am trying to do though is have a workspace that is more than 24" deep.

    Cpartist - I am not sure what you mean bout "open up the wall where the stove is to the breakfast room." Are you talking about the peninsula where the cooktop is currently located? (Right now I have an electric cooktop on the peninsulat. Then there is a built in oven with microwave on top that is just to the left of the door from the formal dining room (which is DH's office).


    mama goose - I particularly like the idea of opening up the pass through. Although if I did that I would probablmy make it deeper then I could use the space to the side of the sink as work space. But I am not sure about losing a couple of upper cabinets. Also, I definitely want to expand the pantry.


    Couple of thoughts I have had. Make the area where the cooktop currently is (the peninsula) a workspace. That is remove the cooktop. Then put a range where the oven/microware are now. I am not sure where I would then put a microwave as I am not fond of the OTR microwaves.

    I also thought about slightly widening the existing pantry (encroaching a bit on the breakfast room). I looked at it and it wouldn't create a clearance problem. That space is actually where we now have our trashcan. We could widen the pantry about 18" doing that.

    Then deepen the pantry into the family room a couple of feet. I know that isn't ideal aesthetically. But the sofa that would be next to the pantry would still extend beyond it. That is, the pantry would take up 24" of the family room but, the sofa would be to the right of it and extends out from the wall about 40".

    Attached is a floor plan of the entire house.

    The family room is "above" the kitchen. The formal living room is to the right of the kitchen. The dining room is "below" the kitchen. It is used as DH's office. The opening from the foyer to that room is completely open. As a practical matter we always enter the kitchen from that door as it is a pain to walk through the family room to enter from the breakfast room.

    We are uncertain what we are doing to the family room as we don't really need two living areas. Currently my office is the bedroom "below" the master bedroom. The master bath is being totally redone (I have a separate thread on that) and is very space challenged. I would like to take my office space and just make that room a large closet for the master bedroom and then we wouldn't have to have any closets in the bathroom. But that turns a 4 bedroom house into a 3 bedroom which I don't want to do (we plan this to be a forever house but you never know what will happen).

    Anyway -- all of that is a long way of saying that one possibility we have toyed with is closing off the family room from the breakfast room and taking about 2/3 of the family room and turning it into a bedroom. There is a half bath there now (upper left hand corner) which could extend into the garage storage to put a shower in). We would still leave a hall to go from the living room to the utility room and garage.

    If we do that then we definitely don't extend the pass through for the kitchen to the family room and we give up on the idea of opening up the kitchen at all and we are limited to our current footprint.

    But, that is only a possibility. We may just leave family room as is and try to figure out other closet solutions for the master. (If we made the family room a bedroom (or mostly a bedroom) I would then move my office to that room.



  • fuzzy wuzzy
    5 years ago

    Downsizing usually means less of what you had before. Since you rarely cook and don't entertain much, I'm having trouble understanding why things like a smaller pantry are a problem. If you're not cooking much, why spend for an induction cooktop. What's wrong with a range in a downsized house? cpartist has a very good plan.

  • kats_meow
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    Well - yes it does mean having less space. And in much of the house that is totally fine.

    I had a kitchen before that was about 20 x 20. The current one is 12 x 10. That is a big difference.

    I do cook. I just don't use the oven much. I do use the cooktop. Why induction? Well I had induction at one time and loved it. Current house has smooth top electric. I worry about my cats walking over the cooktop and burning their feet so I have to cover the burners until cook to make sure they don't walk across. With induction that wasn't an issue. I loved it and would like to have it again.

    As for a range -- it is possible I will do that. My main objections to it are twofold, one of which is more important. I've always hated ranges because it hurts my back to bend down and get stuff out of the oven. While I don't use it all that often I do use it and usually for heavier stuff. But now that I have the Breville Smart Oven Air I use the oven even less so maybe a range would work. I am keeping an open mind on it.

    The second issue (more minor) is what to do with the microwave. Right now it is built into the cabinet above the oven. If I get rid of the oven and get a range what to do with the microwave. I am not enthusiastic about the OTR microwaves and don't really want one in a counter. I looked into the drawer one and they seem to have issues also. I guess I could put the microwave into a cabinet of some sort. Not sure.

    About the pantry - well, it is a problem because our pantry was full. I mean just because I downsized doesn't mean that I want everything in the house to be smaller. The pantry was fully used. It had not just food, but we also kept storage containers in there and kept our toilet paper and paper towels on the floor. It was walk in and convenient to use. Right now, the storage counters are in an upper cabinet. The large packages of toilet paper and paper towels are I don't even no where at this point.

    But, the bottom line is that I want a larger pantry because I fully use it and like having it...




  • kats_meow
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    That is an interesting idea emilyam819. It is not one I thought of. While I would lose a couple of cabinets I agree it would eliminate the corner cabinet. I will work on seeing if that would work.

  • emilyam819
    5 years ago

    Are the windows in the nook and DH’s office above counter height? Wondering if you can expand kitchen into one of them, or into the family room.

  • emilyam819
    5 years ago

    Sketch of what I described above. I’d say this is a budget option... it doesn’t solve the oven or pantry problems, but it gives you better flow throughout the house, a spot for the microwave, and a deep counter for assembling.

  • emilyam819
    5 years ago

    Are any of the kitchen walls load bearing?

  • kats_meow
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    Alas, the windows in the breakfast room and DH's office are not above counter height. The one in the office is the biggest window in the house and takes up almost the entire outside wall. The ones in the breakfast room are all very low as well. We considered expanding into the breakfast room but it would mean raising the windows at a minimum. We could expand into the family room but I think it is more money than I want to spend.

    I am not yet sure about the walls. My feeling is that the wall into the family is not load bearing but the wall into the living room is. Of course, we would have to check to make sure.

    I like the sketch since it does solve several problems but it does move around a lot stuff. I am not sure also about having the DW in a doorway. But I like having the door to the formal living room.

    CPartist's idea probably does the best job of solving the storage issues. I looked at it and doing what is suggested would result in a good sized pantry and we would probably put a coffee counter next to it where DH could keep his Keurig. Probably put that coffee counter next to the door to his office and then put the pantry next to it. I would, of course, have to have a range but I am sort of resigned to that at this point. It would not, however, give me any deep workspace but maybe that would be OK if the storage issues were solved.


  • mama goose_gw zn6OH
    5 years ago

    Since you are willing to recess an appliance into the FR, I'd go with cpartist's suggestion of the fridge on that wall. If you want continuous deep counter, can you move the door to the DR/office?

    I didn't draw the MW, but it could be incorporated into the upper cabinets anywhere along the long counter. I also widened the pass-through.

    kats_meow thanked mama goose_gw zn6OH
  • mama goose_gw zn6OH
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Version with pantries:

    Pantries and fridge switched:


    kats_meow thanked mama goose_gw zn6OH
  • kats_meow
    Original Author
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Those are interesting ideas. I'm not sure about recessing the refrigerator into Family Room. I was willing to do the pantry to get a deeper pantry but not sure it is worth expense to recess the refrigerator. I'm OK with the refrigerator sticking out past the cabinet...

    The idea of switching from a double L lay out to the U shape and moving the door to DH's office is intriguing to me. I especially like the bottom drawing (not probably not recessing the refrigerator into DH's office as I don't think he would like that. The biggest issue is that when we get rid of the peninsula I get rid of the the only deep counter workspace. That is that plan does give me workspace to the left of the range but it is only counter depth. Hmm.... I like the overall layout but in terms of storage though.

    (BTW, you are all so much more creative than I am. I had not thought of most of these ideas at all. Thanks much.)

  • Kathryn P
    5 years ago

    I think Mama's last two plans have extra depth on the range wall. Looks to be 3 inches, but could theoretically be more.

  • mama goose_gw zn6OH
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Yes, I pulled out the counter on the long wall--depth would depend on how close you want the sink to the corner, or if you're willing to move the plumbing to the left, and make the pantry smaller. A CD fridge would work without recessing it into the office, but you'd lose some cold storage.

    Gardenweb discussions--deep counters

    ETA, if you're using Ikea cabinets or boxes, you can choose the 15" or 18" depth of uppers for over the deep counter.

  • cpartist
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Cpartist - I am not sure what you mean bout "open up the wall where the stove is to the breakfast room." Are you talking about the peninsula where the cooktop is currently located?

    Yes.

    (Right now I have an electric cooktop on the peninsulat. Then there is a built in oven with microwave on top that is just to the left of the door from the formal dining room (which is DH's office).

    I missed that you had the built in oven.

    But I am not sure about losing a couple of upper cabinets. Also, I definitely want to expand the pantry.

    You can lose upper cabinets if you replace your lowers with all drawers. You'd be amazed at how much more you can get in a draw than in a regular cabinet or even a cabinet with a roll out.

    I'm headed to sleep now, but now that I see the full floor, I might have some questions for you tomorrow. And I understand about wanting a separate oven. I'm getting up there in years, and also don't like having to bend over to cook what's in the oven.

  • zmith
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    What if you opened the kitchen to the dining room and then you can expand the kitchen into the breakfast nook?

  • kats_meow
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    Mama goose - I liked converting the kitchen to the U shape but DH said absolutely not and once he did I understood why. Basically people who have to walk all the way through his office to get in the kitchen. Right now, I (or anyone else) walks through the edge of his office to get in the kitchen but I don't walk pass his desk to do it.

    Oh -- on the fridge - we literally just bought a new refrigerator (LG LMSX30796S not counter depth) less than a month ago. So a long time before we replace.

    CPartist - Yes, I understand about the drawers being better for storage. At my old house I mostly had regular lower cabinets with doors but had one set of drawers for most of my pots and I loved it so much. That is one reason I want to get rid of the current cabinets and get drawers.

    As far as range v. cooktop/oven I have mixed feelings. I mean, I don't like ranges due to the bending over aspect. That said -- I can't have everything. I am doing a major bathroom remodel so am trying to improve the kitchen without redoing everything or expanding it very much.

    New cabinets and counters and expanding the pantry could be in the budget but I want to minimize moving around stuff as much as possible. In other words, to be worthwhile any moving has to really make a material difference.

    I am actually reasonably OK with the layout of the kitchen as is if I can (1) get a larger pantry and (2) a deeper workspace somewhere. The larger pantry is particularly important which is why I liked to idea even if it meant moving to a range. But -- then I still want a deeper workspace. That is why I liked the idea of keeping the peninsula as workspace and moving the cooktop elsewhere. Perhaps just moving the cooktop wouldn't be a big issue. Although I have to consider venting. House is on a slab so I don't want to move the downdraft venting....

    zmith - The main problem with opening the kitchen to the dining room and using it as a dining room is that DH has his office there. Also, expanding kitchen to breakfast room is problematical as there are 4 windows in the breakfast room all of which go down low well below counter height.


  • mama goose_gw zn6OH
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    You will naturally prep between the sink and range, so I'd still make the counter along the right wall deeper. The only problem with putting a range on that wall is that you need to try to keep it out of the traffic path, which means the prep space between the sink and range will be reduced.

    You could move the sink to the left, as I did in one of the plans above, but the deep fridge can't be too close to the table and LR entrance. If you are reconciled to using a range, this is cpartist's original suggestion--the pantry, as drawn, is cabinetry with roll-out tray shelves, but a less expensive framed reach-in pantry might suit your purposes.

    Here's an earlier suggestion revisited, with twin reach-in pantries flanking the DR/office entry. You could still use the separate ovens and cooktop, or omit the oven in favor of more counter space.

    kats_meow thanked mama goose_gw zn6OH
  • scrappy25
    5 years ago

    You will be amazed how much a 24 inch wide, 24 inch deep pantry with rollouts or pullout drawers hold in an accessible manner, probably double what your current pantry holds. Save that extra space for useable countertops with drawers below. Just go to Ikea to look at their pantries.

  • zmith
    5 years ago

    kats meow, I completely missed that bit of info about your husband using the dining room as the office. Thank you for answering my question. :)

    You have two of the best Gardenwebber's helping out. Mamagoose and CPartist have presented some really good options for your consideration. I'm going to hang back.

  • kats_meow
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    Mama Goose -- Thanks, those are good ideas. I like the upper one from a work space storage perspective. So you are making the counters on the right deeper but still putting in 24" cabinets?

    On the second one. What is the reason to move the sink down? Is it so there is more workspace between the cooktop and the corner?

    Thanks again to all for ideas. it is very helpful.


  • kats_meow
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    "kats meow, I completely missed that bit of info about your husband using the dining room as the office."

    Well, actually I think you have it. I met today with a designer to discuss all the potential remodeling of the house. We had a lengthy discussion about the kitchen. Of course, we talked about opening the kitchen to the family room entirely or greatly expanding the pass through. The problem (even though all of that seemed awesome) is that it ate up the budget and I still have a master bath that needs to be redone (separate thread on that one).

    I wanted to preserve as much of the kitchen footprint as I could while improving storage and workspace. Having a more open kitchen was basically more of a want than a need. That is, I don't really need a fully open kitchen although I might like how that looks.

    So, what was proposed is something that I think I can make work with my budget and will meet my real needs.

    The first idea is, yes, to move the dining table and chairs to the formal dining room. Yes, DH has his office there. Basically, the suggestion is that we use the family room as an office. Make the formal living room the main living area for guests and use the family room mostly as an office with a sofa in there for talking/TV. DH would move to my current office and I would move to the family room. Probably put in French doors between the breakfast room and the family room.

    The pantry would be moved to the bottom left hand corner of the breakfast room and would go from the corner to the window.

    New cabinets/counters in the kitchen. The new cabinets with adjustable shelves and drawers on the bottom would improve storage. For my workspace, basically extend the countertop that the cooktop is on make it deeper. it would go into what is now the breakfast room and could have countertop seating there.

    The counter and cabinets would extend to where the pantry is now giving me more counter and storage space.

    An alternative that I would like to find a way to work would be to move the refrigerator down to that area (probably to where the breakfast room opening starts) and then extend the counter/cabinets to where the refrigerator is now. The issue there would be to have enough clearance between the refrigerator and the peninsula with the cooktop since it would now be much larger and deeper. It might be better to leave the refrigerator where it is.

    There would be no table in the breakfast room but there would be counter seating at the peninsula.

    What I like about this idea is that it greatly increases my storage space and workspace. It also doesn't move around a lot of stuff in the kitchen. My house is on a slab so moving stuff around like water lines or vents can be expensive. This doesn't move around a lot of expensive stuff.

    We discussed the possibility of a range or moving the cooktop but those involve having to deal with venting. Of course, this means using the family room as an office. That is fine as I never felt we needed two living areas. And we move the dining to the dining room next to the kitchen. That looks better for people coming in than having people see DH's office. No one would really be going to the family room/office unless they were specifically being asked to go there.


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