Are they the same cultivar? (if they are cultivars, that is). If not, that would explain things, obviously. If they're exactly the same plant, that is interesting. We could get into a whole genotype vs phenotype discussion -- if anyone wants to weigh in on that, that certainly might explain things at least to some degree. Another possibility is you thought you were getting the exact same thing but the seeds were mis-labeled or not exactly what they were promoted to be -- I bet this happens more often than we think. Anyway, I've heard many times that if possible purchases trees/shrubs/perennials from climates similar to your own (even better, locally grown), as they tend to be better adapted.

They're both the same species...from different locations.

I would imagine that there would be an evolutionary benefit to the more northern variety blooming and going to seed earlier in the season. It would give more time for that seed to germinate the same season and get in some growth before winter. In Arkansas this could all be done later in the season.

Species varieties may be different in different places. Genetic differences are bred into new seeds over time due to location conditions, etc.

Yes, I was thinking evolutionary acclimation to the climate causing earlier flowering due to shorter northern seasons. Typically I think nodding wild onion requires cold stratification for germination though.

I was looking into growing some native Allium, and I think I've decided on A cernuum. The photo of the plant on the Prairie Moon website shows them with pale flowers. I would prefer a darker, rich color, maybe I should get seeds from Select Seeds. I have gotten plants and seeds from them before. I think that's where I got seeds for Impatiens glandulifera. They have some nice nativars ( cultivars of native plants).

I also got rich deep colors from Missourri Wildflowers if you would prefer something that will bloom next year and not in 3 years.

We saw same thing with a northern sourced Maximilian sunflower (Helianthus maximilianii) that starts blooming in late June/early July instead of late summer/early fall as the local north Texas natives. Have since just assumed provenance can affect bloom timing (and suppose other aspects) when dealing with wide ranging natives.

Yeah, that was my assumption as well, though seemed good to state it with examples. That's why locally sourced natives are usually best...adapted to your conditions.

It's actually really interesting that it seems lots of northern natives are either keyed with a timer from start of active growth to flowering (that is fairly short compared to southern of same species) or doesn't properly interpret increasing daylength vs declining, for daylength related bloom timings. I'm not sure which it is though.

Debarron, I always enjoy your diatribes. I looked at select seeds, and they weren't offering Allium cernuum anymore. One really cool plant I got seeds for from them is Petunia exserta. The only Petunia to evolve exclusively for hummingbird pollination. It's endangered in it's native Brasil. I got a Maclure and Zimmerman catalog yesterday and they say their Allium cernuums have a deep color, so I think I'm going to order bulbs from them in the fall along with their Trillium grandiflora. Have you ever grown Salvia gregii? It must pack a lot of nectar because the bumblebees and hummers spend a long time on it.

Jay, I wouldn't recommend Mcclure and Zimmerman...they're on the cheap cheep side.

I planted Penstemon digitalis from a nearby land preserve early in the spring, and I started Penstemon digitalis in plug trays from seed from Prairiemoon in MN, and planted those last week. The seed grown ones didnt bloom but Ill be able to see them literally side by side next year so that will be interesting.

Debarron, did you have an unpleasant experience with them. Come to think of it, I may have ordered gesneriad tubers from them that were crap and never grew. Well no biggie. I just want to make sure I get some Alliums with deep color. I saw seeds from another source that said they were a deep color. The picture for the seeds from Prairie Moon showed ones with pale pinkish white color so that's not what I want. I just ordered Heracleum maximum from Prairie Moon, and they sent me Maximillion Sunflower by mistake, so there sending me the correct one free of charge. They always include a pack of Monarda fistulosa as a bonus. I have quite a bit of that already, and it seems like it wants to take over my garden. I'll have to find a bare spot at the park to scatter all these bonus seeds. There is a huge colony of M. fistulosa down towards the end of my street. It's fighting it out with a lot of crownvetch. I'm not sure who's winning, but the teasle and poison hemlock keep getting closer to that grouping. Illinois was supposed to be commited to restoring native wildflowers along our highways. I don't know what happened, but things have really gone downhill.

Depending on your growth skip you may not see flowers next year either...native penstemon seem to like to grow a good rosette before they send up flowering stems.

Dbarron, I was looking at the Select Seeds website and they seem to be offering only Allium cernuum plants. They want like $7.95 per plant which I think is kind of steep for a little old wild onion. They are currently out of stock. I couldn't find seeds for them anywhere on the site. When I did get my Heracleum maximum seeds from Prairie Moon, they sent me a bonus pack of Partridge Pea seeds, which is funny, because I have litterally hundreds of them growing in the garden now.

Well being as it took me two or three years to produce flowering plants...I can see it.

And also...I ordered them...what five or six years ago, so stock has changed somewhat maybe? You could send them an email and ask if they were going to offer seed of it this fall?

Yeah, that's my luck with bonuses too...*lol*

I don't want to wait 2 or 3 years. Maybe I'll just bite the bullet and order 3 of them. They are very abundant at the nearby forest preserve, but they are very pale pink. There's a lot of Clearweed over there too, and the other day when I went to move a couple that grew from seed I threw, they had mysteriously dissapeared.

Don't blame you...money was an issue and I hoped to have several plants at low cost. I had time (hee), guess I still do. I have aquilegia species that I have grown hard (my typical method) for a year and a half and they're only now getting to the point that I'll plant them out of their individual solo cups this fall. They'll finally bloom next year, in their third spring of growth. My method/madness is that I think I get hardier tougher plants this way than if I pamper them and grow fast.

So..if fertilized to the Xth degree, A. cernuum seedlings might bloom 2nd year for you. Unlike most bulbs, they do grow most of the growing season (even in mild winters), having foliage basically all the time.

You must have the patience of a saint. I know I won't be winning any spelling bees, but I deleted my autocorrect, and now I have to learn how to spell all over again. lol It's bulbs or nothing.

Well no, the patience of a gardener, I've planted trees three times in my life (well three waves) and watched them grow from oh...5 gallons or less to great shade trees. Things don't happen instantly...and I've grown to love the process as much (or more) than the end result.

Yes,actually I love watching the process too. I grew a Mimosa from a seed I got in Cotula Texas, all the way to flowering. And I grew a Vitex to flowering, from seed I got there too. I grew an empress tree to flowering, from seed I got on the seed exchange. Was that ever a mistake! I'm still waiting for my Silene regias to get a decent size, and I've had them for 3 years. I incorporated that ubiquitous, rambling, Commelina cummunis into a window box, just to set the whole thing,

"These shrubs will look awesome in 5-10 years!", "in the meantime these perennials will fill in the space, in 2-3 years", "maybe i should try some annuals next year" -the train of thought informing most of my gardening.

And those trees will start filling out in ten years or so...and look like trees in umm 15 or 20.

I'm not sure I'm planting any more trees (real trees that grow in tree time). I did plant a chitalpa three years ago and it's been as tall as the garage last year and this year ( I severely pruned it in March)..that's tall enough for a flowering tree, though eventual size would 20-30 foot I think on it.

I grew a Catalpa from seed too. Something was causing the leaves to brown and curl, so I cut it down at about 10 ft. tall. I can't grow anymore trees because I need all the sunlight for all my other plants, especially the natives. If I had more land, there would be tons of different trees I'd love to grow. Skip, annuals are great for filling in bare spots while you're waiting for other plants to mature, and they help keep the weeds down.

But...don't allow them to shade out your perennials (issue if you plant closely).

Please don't ask me how I know this. And especially don't ask about how I still have the problem despite being aware of the issue.

Debarron, how do you know this, and why do you still have the problem despite being aware of the issue??? LOL I have tall plants shading shorter plants and morning glories and wild pink beans growing up the tall plants. I have to rescue my two grape Buddleias this coming week. They are completely covered in morning glories to the point that their foliage can't be seen. I would be more on top of things if I was still living at the place where that garden is. I'm keeping the gardens where I'm at now weeded, deadheaded and fairly well manicured. I was wondering where you got your Asclepius variegata seeds. I'm hoping some vender has them in stock this fall. I have seeds for something like 24 species, so if I can't get any I will be sad, but I think I already have my hands full. I remember you asking someone here to be considered for variegata seeds, and I wondered if that's where you got them. What is even more difficult finding are seeds for the four endangered Asclepius species. I'm not even sure where to begin looking for those. All google searches come up empty. I was thinking of reaching out to some native plant chapters in this state, and a few other states to see if someone has them, and is willing to share a few. I discovered, and got interested in the plantain orchid while I was looking for seeds for the rattlesnake hawkweed. Hieracium venosum. That was was also a fruitless pursuit. I did order Hieracium maculatum seeds instead. They have pretty cool blotchy leaves.

Actually no, I got them from the dude on Asclepiads forum that has occassionally had some to share (Mark I believe).

I see them in the wild, but no where that I can go to collect (and remember where they are)..if indeed they make many seeds, which seems they tend to not.

Which are the four you're looking for ?

Actually there are 5 endangered or threatened species. A. meadii, Mead's milkweed, A. engelmanniana, Engelman's milkweed, A. lanuginosa, A.ovifolia, and A. stenophylla. All of them except A. engelmanniana are, or were present in Illinois. A. engelmanniana occurs further west starting in Kansas and Nebraska, but close enough to probably be hardy here.

Only stenophylla found in my area..and I may have seen it..but not in my county.

I think Prairie Moon carries it, but it's currently out of stock. I'll soon have more species than William Kelly, if I don't already. lol What's it like posting a thread on multiple forums? I was feeling like I was having a private conversation, and then realized it wasn't really that private.

Well, we have veered off topic for sure...but still relevant to native plants (if not alliums). No one has flamed me yet.

Heh heh so many alliums go feral so easily, that they are close to being natives ...

And in those days the garlic chives went ferel and spread across the face of the Earth, choking out all other vegetative life, until there was nothing green growing except for garlic chives. lol ....and the daylilly and hosta fanatics wept in sackloth and ashes.

My daylilies seem to be about the only established plants that garlic chives do not crowd out. I hates em, it seems to me that every seed sprouts twice.

Ok, here are the Arkansas native cernuums, which are a pale pink and blooming now...I should also go find photo of the earlier ones...for comparison

Me too Jay, just wanted to illustrate the difference in color and flower time.

Well, if you want seed, that'll be next year...it's long gone now (for the purples)