amanda_5352

Loba compared to Bona Traffic

Amanda
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago

We built our house 1.5 years ago and after deciding to not stain our floors we chose to use a water based poly. The hardwood installers told us this would cost $1600 extra to do. After asking around I understood that would be reasonable if they were using a high-end poly like Bona Traffic. I specifically asked the installer if they would be using Bona Traffic to which he replied "yes". After we moved in we discovered a leftover bottle of floor finish and it's labelled Loba WS Easyfinish. I can't seem to find much about this product. Is it comparable to Bona Traffic in regards to durability? This is all coming about because our floors are staining VERY easily. We have 3 dogs, one who is older and has some accidents in the house. We know this so we are careful to always check for any mess. In some areas his accident will significantly stain the floors within 30 minutes. I grew up in a home with hardwoods and I've never heard of them staining so quickly! Also, we are nearly certain that the finishers only put 2 coats on the floor. You can feel the grain of the wood and in many areas the floors are rough. I've been reading that with water based you need at least 3. Can someone weigh in on this? Especially, is this just a preference or actual manufactor's recommendation? I'd like to feel a bit more confident before I call the finishers and complain.

Edited to add: after reading more I believe since this was used on white oak with no stain, the finishers should have used a primer. Is that correct?

Comments (95)

  • PRO
    G & S Floor Service
    11 months ago

    Those marks is not a finish issue. It's a user issue. You will need to take better care, when moving the chairs around.


    The sanding and finishing looks very good. The floors are sanded very flat. I don't see any grain dish outs. Very nice job.

  • HU-884120615
    11 months ago

    Is there any way to easily remove these scuff marks? It’s hard to believe with all of today’s technology that a simple remedy doesn’t exist.

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  • PRO
    G & S Floor Service
    11 months ago

    Buff it out with a tennis ball or microfiber cloth.

  • HU-884120615
    11 months ago
    last modified: 11 months ago

    Ok. I will try this.

    On another note, I was told by my refinisher to only use Squeaky floor cleaner. I have a full gallon of Buona floor cleaner. I wrote to Buona and described my top coat and they said this.

    Bona Hardwood Floor Cleaner is safe for use on your finished, and unwaxed or unoiledhardwood floor. Our Hardwood Floor Cleaner is pH balanced, leaves no dulling or sticky residue behind and is GREENGUARD GOLD Certified for indoor air quality, confirming it is safe for use in your home and around your family.

    Bona Hardwood Floor Cleaner does not contain oil.

    Any thoughts?


  • SJ McCarthy
    11 months ago

    The Bona cleaner is concentrated...so a gallon of that stuff should give you YEARS of cleaning product. Be VERY SURE to mix this properly.


    The 'cleaner' is only a cleaner. It doesn't do ANYTHING for scuffs. Again, your scuffs/buffs are NORMAL. We can't say it enough. What you are seeing is 100% normal and is NOT a defect.


    The cleaning schedule for your wood floors will be as follows:

    1. Sweep every 2 days or more often - as needed

    1a. Vacuum without a beater bar (suction only) is also acceptable - NEVER allow a beater bar to function while running over a wood floor

    2. WATER ONLY lightly damp mop every WEEK (yes...just once per week!!!) - this is to pick up the light dust that the broom/vacuum leaves behind.

    3. Damp mop cleaning (using the Bona Cleaner) 1-2 per MONTH (yep. 12 - 24 times per YEAR!!! NEVER MORE!!! Ever!!!)

    4. Properly prepared cleaner is sprayed onto the HEAD of the microfibre mop head (never apply directly to the floor - EVER).

    5. If film build up occurs, simply remove film by using Windex Original formula over the floor.


    ****NO steam mops**** NO Swiffer 'wet' products of ANY KIND***


    Good luck. Please leave the scuffs alone for a while. They aren't harming anything. They are just 'gloss changes' cause something 'rubbed' on the floor. It buffed up your floor from a satin to a semi-gloss. There is NOTHING WRONG.

  • HU-884120615
    11 months ago

    Would you ever recommend using a wood floor polish? I still have some Bona wood floor polish left over. I used this about twice a year On my old floor.

  • SJ McCarthy
    11 months ago

    NO! Nooooooo! No 'polish' on hardwood. Ever. It ruins the existing finish while preventing you from refinishing it at a later date. I'm not kidding. These 'refresh' products (says on the bottle, 'Revives the look of old floors') are temporary and they cause WAAAAAAY more issues then they solve.


    If you are upset by the scuffs and buffs then I recommend adding a coat or 2 (yes....this is THE FIX you are looking for) Loba 2K Supra AT. The 'AT' means Advanced Technology which means there are ceramic nanobeads imbedded in the finish = super tough. I would also suggest moving up to semi-gloss. The chair feet are OBVIOUSLY very small and buff the floor to a semi-gloss finish....so you might as well bump it up to the gloss level that HIDES the buffing from the chairs feet.


    The 'scuff resistance' technology is in the Supra AT....which you did NOT pay for/get. That is where the 'technology' is. If you want to fix this you have two options:

    1. Get new chairs (no I'm not being funny...I'm just pointing out the culprit causing the issue)

    2. Apply the RIGHT product for your needs = Supra AT (possibly in the semi-gloss)


    Those are two legitimate fixes. Neither one is cheap...but they will do the job.

  • thedomesticdiva
    10 months ago
    last modified: 10 months ago




    Looking for some advise. We are closing on a 1960 house next week. Original owners, lifting up some of the trim, doesn't look like the floors have been refinished. Having some floor people coming out tomorrow to get quotes.


    The two products I'm considering is Bona HD Traffic or Loba 2K Supra. This is our forever house, so I want the wood floor finish to be as solid as possible until the kids are well and gone. Currently we have a 1st grader and a toddler, plus a geriatric french bull dog that is not active, but her nails grow fast. We may also get another dog in the next 5 years.


    Reading about these two products they both sound great, if you have someone experienced. I've read that Bona HD Traffic has a wet edge time of 2-4 min. What is the wet edge time of Loba 2K Supra?


    Also going through it looks like the Bona is 300-400 feet a gallon, where the Loba 2K Supra is 500-600 gallon. This is going to be an investment, but just looking at that, no matter the product line, sealer + 3 coats of finisher, the Loba would just be less expensive, am I reading this right? Is it easier to work with than the Bona? We are in the Pacific NW, rains all winter.


    What is the SF cost I'd be looking at for sealer + 3 coats of either of these products? Here are some pictures, three bedrooms, plus the living room/dining room (carpet now, pulling up once we close next week, but all hard wood under), around 1000 sft to finish.


  • SJ McCarthy
    10 months ago

    It's pretty easy to do the math. WS EasyPrime (may not be necessary if you have red oak or some other wood) is roughly $0.25/sf. It is about $80 USD per gallon (getting it in cold weather is a whole 'nother discussion...but I won't go there). It covers 450sf over raw wood...may be less if the wood is very dry.


    The Loba 2K Supra AT = $190/gallon (or so). The first coat will have 450sf of coverage ($0.45/sf). After that the refinisher will get 550-600sf per gallon ($0.35/sf). You will need two of those coats = $0.70/sf.


    Just add up the material costs:

    $0.25 + $0.45 + $0.70 = $1.40 in Loba product.


    The labour is where you will notice the REAL costs. If you assume $1/sf for EACH coat of product you see that means $4/sf without much effort. Add in another $1-$2/sf for the sanding job and you have a total: $5.40 - $6.40/sf for the TOTAL job costs. I live in Vancouver BC...just north of you. I've used Loba 2K Supra AT on cork floors for years....no issue with 'wet. None at all.


    Loba is easier to work with but HARDER to find. If your refinisher can handle Bona Traffic HD (real PITA to work) s/he will be SUPER happy to find Loba 2K Supra AT!!! Traffic has a 2 minute working wet edge (nope...not kidding) whereas the AT has a 10 minute working edge. That means the Loba is 5 TIMES easier to work with.


    But getting supplies in winter is DIFFICULT to the point of IMPOSSIBLE. Both Bona and Loba DENATURE below 5 Celsius (45 F). It hardens into plastic shaped like the container it froze in. And it NEVER turns back to liquid.


    Loba ships from N.Carolina. The route they take is VERY cold. As soon as the winter passes get lower than 55 over night...Loba stops shipping to their retailers.


    You will need to find a LOCAL supplier that has MASSIVE amounts of Loba on hand to get this done. Or you can wait until Spring - when the temps over night are warmer than 55 F.

  • PRO
    G & S Floor Service
    10 months ago

    If, you're going with Loba. Use "Supra AT", it is more superior to "Supra".


    And to add to the freeze - thaw (frozen) cycle of water base finishes. Some products have 0 cycles. Meaning if, it freezes, it's trash. The ingredients are no good. Check with the manufacture for this information. It is not on the label, located on the side of the bottle.


    You cannot use finishes once it thaws out. Some of the chemicals (ingredients) are still crystalized. The thawing is at different rates. The bottle needs to be in a room temperature for a few days up to a week, before it is mixed and shaken. This can affect cost and scheduling.


    Bona Traffic HD and Loba Supra AT has 3 freeze-thaw cycle, before it is deemed unusable.

  • thedomesticdiva
    9 months ago

    Thank you for all the feedback. It has been very interesting navigating supply availability and getting connected with experienced apply people. We've decided to go with Bona High Traffic HD, as the company I feel most confident in (was the middle bid), does almost all Bona.


    I wanted to ask if anyone has had issues with Bona Nordic Sealer turning yellow in the first 3-6 months of application? Got confirmation our floors are white oak, and I'm really torn between natural and nordic, but I read a post about yellowing, which now has me spooked. Work starts the week after Christmas.



  • SJ McCarthy
    9 months ago

    The yellow, if it happens, will be from the FINISH sitting on top...not the NordicSeal itself. The two part polyurethanes such as Bona Traffic or Bona Traffic HD will not yellow. Some of the lower level (ie. cheaper) Bona products can and will turn yellow.


    If the container/brochure states, "Will add depth to the wood" or "Will intensify the colour" or "Enhances the natural wood tones" then the finish will probably yellow.


    The other hint: Waterborne finishes are often oil modified. Anything with the word 'oil' turns yellow. So stay away from anything that says oil based or oil modified. Yes. Bona has products that yellow or amber. Stay away from those.


    As your pro which finish (the full title) they will be used over the NordicSeal.

  • PRO
    G & S Floor Service
    9 months ago

    If, your floors are over 50 years it will yellow Or tan or wheat.

  • thedomesticdiva
    9 months ago

    Yes, floors are 62 years old. Full sanding, then applying a BONA Seal (Nordic or Natural) with Bona HD High traffic in Satin over top. I've asked for 3 coats, all HD High Traffic, it may be overkill, but I want bullet proof as they come in a water product.

  • PRO
    G & S Floor Service
    9 months ago
    last modified: 9 months ago



    We did these 80-100 year old white oak floors a few years back with two coats of Nordic seal and two Traffic HD Matte.

  • HU-884120615
    9 months ago
    last modified: 9 months ago

    So an update two months after my wood floors were refinished. I repaired the few areas that had scuff marks as mentioned earlier (sand, seal remove tape). No more scuff marks. Solution: wait at least a week before putting your chairs back into kitchen. The coating may be able to walk on in a few hours but nothing heavy like chairs. Also, I am using slightly larger pads on the chair legs. Instead of the standard 3/4” diameter, I am using 1-1/4“. This distributes the load from the chair over a larger area. I am using a darker color to blend in with my floor so they are barely visible. So far so good.

  • beamo8
    9 months ago

    We are purchasing a Woodsmiths Tas Oak engineered flooring. We're told its precoated with Bona Traffice UV Naturale Finish. We have new Tas Oak stairs that are yet to be stained and need to tell the builder what to use. Is it a no-brainer to just pass on the same product? Should we be using the anti-slip version? Is there a minimum number of coats we should seek? Any help, greatly appreciated.

  • PRO
    G & S Floor Service
    9 months ago

    If, you have young children or elders that will be living in the house. It would make sense to use a anti-slip coating. I haven't had any complaints about Traffic HD or Supra AT systems being too slippery since these products came on the market.


    Regarding number of coatings, applying the recommended amount is more than enough. Only if, your contractor is a cheapscate and applies less than the recommended coverage would you need a additional coat. Traffic systems covers 350-400 square feet per gallon, per coat. Ask how many gallons they will be using for the project. For example: 1000 square feet and they say 4 gallons. You know you're getting short since it will take 5 - 6 gallons for proper coverage.

  • fgp_visioncoatings
    9 months ago

    Hello all! I have natural white oak flooring that we put one coat of NordicSeal on and one coat of Bona Traffic HD Extra Matte on. We just finished painting and we are ready for the final coats. The thing is, we would like it whiter. I wish we did 2 coats of NordicSeal. My finisher recommended we do another coat of Bona Traffic HD Extra Matte then a final coat of Loba 2K Supra AT with a whitener in it. Will this be ok? We have small children. Thank you in advance for the help.

  • PRO
    G & S Floor Service
    9 months ago
    last modified: 9 months ago

    You can skip the Loba and just add Mixol to the Traffic HD.

  • SJ McCarthy
    9 months ago

    I agree. Mixol is made to be added to poly without causing bonding issues.


  • thedomesticdiva
    9 months ago
    last modified: 9 months ago

    Okay, so I think we are set to do Bona NaturalSeal on our 60+ white oak floors. Then Bona Traffic HD in Satin.

    Questions -

    • Will there be any cloudy issues with the above combo sealer+finish?
    • NaturalSeal + 2 coats Bona Traffic HD or NaturalSeal + 3 coats Bona Traffic HD?

    Small kids that are rough...on life, plus one old dog. I am going for as strong as possible and longevity.

    Is the one additional coat of Bona Traffic HD (NaturalSeal + 3 coats Bona Traffic HD) over kill? Or is it a good idea? It is a $1K up-charge for the third coat from my floor finisher. It is a chunk of cash, but I'm getting to the point in life where the time and lack of hassle of redoing the floors sooner are worth the additional cost.

  • James
    9 months ago

    2 coats of traffic is fine. Don’t waste your money on a third. More isn’t necessarily better

  • PRO
    G & S Floor Service
    8 months ago

    You should not get any cloudy appearance if, the sanding is done right. The finisher needs to treat water base jobs similar to staining jobs.

  • James
    8 months ago

    If you like the lightened look, do Loba Easy Prime with whitener in the coat. Followed by 2 coats of Loba 2k Supra in satin sheen. Way easier, no need to stain, way better looking. Any questions, please reach out
    James Toal
    Loba-Wakol
    Technical Sales
    New England
    ph/text: 475-241-4073 James.Toal@Loba-Wakol.com

  • thedomesticdiva
    8 months ago

    Are some beauty shots. White Oak, Bona Sealer in Natural, with two coats of BONA TRAFFIC HD - Satin Finish.


    Happy with how they turned out. There is one edge in a corner that I suspect the wet edge wasn't maintained, so a little ghosting, but I'm nit picking.







  • Abby O
    7 months ago

    our contractor used Loba Viva satin. Is that comparable to Bona High Traffic?

  • SJ McCarthy
    7 months ago

    I love Loba...in the TOP GRADE levels. The mid and 'entry' level products might not be what North American's are expecting from their finish.


    Viva « 1-Component Waterborne Finishes « Loba On Top! - der Oberflächenspezialist für Parkett und Holzfußböden


    You can click on the link to the 1-Component Waterborne Viva (ignore the German language stuff, this is the link to the www.loba-wakol.com website...they just haven't translated the German links to English...yet...that's how new this is to the US/Canadian market).


    This statement is revealing: "Versatile 1K water-based finish at best value. Excellent for renovations and new installations!"


    Hmmmm....the turn of phrase is a nice way of saying, "Hey everyone! Look at what we have! You wanted 'cheaper' so here it is!!! Come and get it!"


    The Germans are all about UNDERSTATEMENT. They do NOT like 'glitz' and 'showiness' (at least not the upper middle class anyway).


    The words 'at best value' is their way of waiving a Red flag (and a White one as well) to show everyone that you CAN purchase German ingenuity on the cheap.


    I'm not a fan of Loba's WSEasy Finish. Which means another finish in the 'low class' category isn't going to be my cup of tea.


    If you are gentle on your floors and take care of them and you had 2+ coats applied you will be fine. I would suspect you will require the 15 year refresh for these floors.

  • Abby O
    7 months ago

    Thanks for your feedback! That was my takeaway when it said VALUE. Our flooring guy said he put Bona HT on and then I found the Loba Viva Satin empty jugs.😬 He only did two coats so I’m making him do one more with the Loba Supra on top. Does that sound like an okay solution?

  • James
    7 months ago

    The Supra will be good on top of the Viva, provided he applies it at the proper spread rate, which is 500-600 square feet. If he was dishonest enough to substitute a single component finish for a two components finish, I would also assume that he is dishonest enough to put on too thin of a coat. Keep your eye on them

  • James
    7 months ago

    I’ll disagree with SJ McCarthy. Loba Easy finish is a top of the line single component polyurethane. Loba Viva is not, it is an ‘entry level’ finish and is on par with other single component finishes. Easy Finish is in a league of its own. Easy finish is not better than a 2 component finish, which has greater chemical resistance and scratch resistance.

    “German ingenuity on the cheap” ? That’s just stupid. Every manufacturer of cars, watches, furniture and everything else manufactured under the sun, including polyurethanes, has different levels of quality to fit budgets and expectations. Including the ones that Mrs McCarthy uses. You can spend $200,000 on a Mercedes Benz, or you can spend $30,000. There’s no red or white flags.

    Again, you’ll be fine with Supra over Viva, provided the dishonest floorman applies it properly

  • SJ McCarthy
    7 months ago

    So...your refinisher 'said' Bona HD....but you then found the bottles of empty VIVA???? Hmmmm. The difference in price is substantial (Bona HD should be well over $100/gallon....VIVA should be $70-$80/gallon).


    You better speak with this guy REALLY quickly...withhold final payment until you are satisfied you got what you paid for - and what he said he was going to use.


    Do you have a written contract that states Bona HD?

  • James
    7 months ago

    Abby O, if I can be of assistance, please reach out

    James Toal
    Loba-Wakol
    Technical Sales
    New England
    ph/text: 475-241-4073 James.Toal@Loba-Wakol.com

  • HU-884120615
    7 months ago

    Recently, I dropped a small pail of water on my newly refinished wood floor. I quickly dried it up with towels. A few days later I noticed some cupping of the boards as shown on my attached photo. Will this go away over time as the wood dries out or do I need to have my floor serviced again?


  • SJ McCarthy
    7 months ago

    Leave them be. Winter is the dry time of year. These should dry out nicely. If you are worried feel free to run a fan over them and use a room dehumidifier while you do it. These should correct in a few weeks.


    Yes. Weeks. Wood SWELLS quickly but shrinks slowly. If you sprain your ankle, your foot swells IMMEDIATELY. But it takes weeks (even months depending on the SEVERITY of the sprain) to go down to normal size. Wood is the same. Quick to puff, slow to shrink.


    Your floor is fine. The finish is in good shape and as far as I can tell the wood looks in perfect condition...just a little fatter than normal.

  • Dudly Dorht
    6 months ago

    I would only like to convey my appreciation and somewhat bemused appreciation for the jauntiness displayed, whilst all wangle the intricacies of protective/aesthetic coatings from industrial to residential. Wandered over to this site whilst researching K2 invis for a new neighbor doing their floors after fixing up all the bad plaster work on new ceilings and legacy issues with wall and trims.


    I salute you all and double for the skilled applicators for their efforts to inform ... Kudos

  • ron_nnn
    6 months ago

    I had my maple floors refinished. The contractor started with an oil-based product, but the second coat messed up. He sanded (?) the floors down again and applied 1 coat of a Loba satin product. After four months, they were dull, had a waxy coating on top (I could drag my fingernails across and see the trails) and I could NOT get the dog paw marks off the floor. Icky. He was very nice, came back and did a quick sand/abrassion of them, and applied one coat of Loba K2 Supra satin. They look better, and feel much, much harder, but that lite hazy film is still there (but not as bad as the first time). Is this normal? Is this what Loba satin does?


  • ron_nnn
    6 months ago

    HU-884120615 did your floors cure up and stop scuffing/buffing out when something rubbed them? I had that happen with my floors.

  • SJ McCarthy
    6 months ago

    @ron_nnn Are you saying the guy only put down ONE COAT of finish after he messed up the finish?


    The 'haze' could be from the left over oil based product he used the first time. He already had adhesion failure the first time. Did he SAND DOWN FULLY (to raw wood) and START OVER?


    How much did you pay for your sand/refinish???

  • James
    6 months ago

    Ron_ann no this isn’t what Loba does. The problem is the first coat of oil based. The oil based poly takes a long time to cure. It’s dry overnight, but it isn’t cured, which means that it’s still gassing off. When he put the Loba on the oil base, the oil based gassed off into the Loba and ruined it. That’s why it was soft and hazy. The next coat of Supra he did probably made it better, but it’s always going to compromised.
    Feel free to call

    James Toal
    Loba-Wakol
    Technical Sales
    New England
    ph/text: 475-241-4073 James.Toal@Loba-Wakol.com

  • ron_nnn
    6 months ago
    last modified: 6 months ago

    Thank you! My common sense kind of told me that it might have been a chemical reaction, especially since my eyes have been really irritated since this happened.

    Coat one, oil-based poly. The second coat, oil-based poly had debris in it, so the next day I think he "sanded" down and said he was going to lay down water-based poly. Within a couple of weeks, the floor looked hazy and dirty with a film on top. I kept thinking I wasn't cleaning them right or that it was the cleaning product he left me. The floors were scratching horribly!

    He came out saw the problem and said that wasn't right. He "screened" them and put down A Loba K2 Supra satin. Within four days I was seeing a film again, but not as bad. He said he would come back out and totally redo my floors in the oil-based as I'd originally requested. Which is great, but I really like that K2 Supra that he put down, though. Can I ask for the K2 Supra or will it still get the gassing off effect? I would pay extra to have the K2 Supra :-)

  • James
    6 months ago

    It was great talking with you Rhonda. I am sure everything will work out right. Call me again if you need me

  • SJ McCarthy
    6 months ago

    Loba has a few options. A really nice option = Loba WS 2K Supra. It used to be their top option. Now they have a BETTER one called Loba 2K Supra AT. The 'AT' line has FANTASTIC antiscratch properties and a fantastic velvety feel under foot.


    The cost you paid for the refinish will dictate what option he is to 'refinish' your floors with. An oil based polyurethane (the stuff that turns orange) is traditionally $5/sf. Some low-priced areas (very close to the Mexican border) can be a snick cheaper.


    A HIGH end finish like Loba 2K Supra AT (the best they have) is going to cost more...closer to $7/sf. Your refinisher has a contract for 2 coats of oil based finish.


    You will need to speak with him/her to find out what type of upgrade you have to pay for to change the QUOTE from oil based finish ($80 - $100/gall) to Loba WS 2K Supra ($150/gallon) or the Loba 2K Supra AT ($195 - $225/gallon).


    At this point, I would ask that the floors are sanded down to raw wood and thank him/her for the work. And then find someone else. With 3 attempts at fixing this, they appear to be well over their head.

  • dmac1108
    6 months ago

    I have a few questions. I am about to have my red oak wood floors refinished for the first time (home completed in Dec. 1996). I’ve learned a lot from reading discussions over the past few months - but I still have questions. . .


    @HU-884120615 - you posted a photo that showed fairly significant cupping after spilling a SMALL pail of water that was dried up QUICKLY. What do you mean by “small” pail - and what does “quickly” equate to time wise? The reason I’m asking is that the “resulting” (I have this in quotes because I know that the damage shown in your photo was not the final damage after the boards dried out) appears to be equal to or greater than any damage that has occurred to the wood floors in my kitchen over the past 24 years - and I’ve had damage resulting from a leak in the water line to my refrigerator AND a leak from under my sink (I was absent from my home at the time and my daughter did not notice it immediately). Neither of the two leaks I’ve experienced require the replacement of any boards (according to two refinishing professionals).


    When I read the word “quickly” - it sounds like someone spilled the water and the same person addressed it right after it happened. Yesterday I had a few bottles of water freeze and crack in my refrigerator - equaling around 60 oz. A good amount of water spilled onto my wood floors when I opened the door - which I immediately mopped up with a towel. I have no cupping or other visible damage. The reason I’m asking is because I’m trying to understand the difference in protection provided by water based finishes vs. the finish that I currently have on my wood floors.


    If I could engage SJ McCarthy or G & S Floor Services to refinish my floors, life would be easier - but since I can’t . . .


    @SJ McCarthy - you commented about the above photo - is this a typical result from a water spill that was quickly addressed using a WB finish? Again, I’m trying to understand the level of protection afforded by the various types of finishes. Also - what would have been the “typical” finish used back in 1996 (high gloss finish)? This wasn’t discussed specifically when the house was built and the hardwood floors installed. Again, I am trying to understand what type of WB finish will be ”equivalent“ to my existing finish (which has been pretty easy to maintain and has held up well over the years).


    @G & S Floor Service - you posted a photo above showing a red oak floor you refinished using 2 coats of Bona Nordic seal + 2 coats Bona Traffic HD. I understand that when the Nordic seal is used with red oak, a pink hue is visible. I have purchased some Ciranova pink blocker to sample on a solid red oak table that I would like to refinish and use in my kitchen. My understanding is that the pink blocker leads to more predictable results than using bleach (and is easier to use). I recently read a post by someone who had her red oak floors refinished using this product - and (based upon the photo) her floors looked very nice. I think that she used Ciranova Hardwaxoil Titan (in silk) as the finisher.


    If I decide to use the pink blocker on my floors, I’m not sure what type of finish to use (or what to use to protect my table). I’ve also looked at their reactive stains (AquaVintage appears to be compatible with a WB finish - the other stains provide that they can be finished with a WB finish after contacting Ciranova for instructions). Under Ciranova’s “varnish” section of their website, three WB PU impregnating oil primers/finishes are listed - they all are supposed to provide an “ultimate invisible finish” and are “non-yellowing” - EcoFix Plus (untreated appearance)/Woodlook Plus (slightly bleached)/Oculto Plus (slightly intense - based upon comments from S J McCarthy this signifies that the finish will add yellow). An optional hardener can be added to all three of the foregoing primers/finishes to improve mechanical/chemical resistance. There is also Fortico 2c - a two component system for heavy traffic (specifically recommended for commercial spuses/hotels/restaurants). This appears to be similar to Bona Traffic/Loba 2k products - is this correct?


    There are different products listed under the “oils” section for Ciranova’s finishes. The Titan product that was used by someone on Houzz for her floors can be used with an optional UA hardener. Also, they have a product called UN1CO which is an oil + hardener which can be followed by Titan or Fortico 2c for the “best possible protection“ and “reduced maintenance.” I really like the look of oiled floors (photos of smoked/fumed RMC floors are BEAUTIFUL - so are the Ciranova floors I’ve viewed in photos). The only “knowledge“ I have about the practicality of them is from reading various discussions on Houzz re: RMC - and the issues people have been having with water spots/dog drool. The idea of being able to repair issues using this type of system is appealing - but it‘s daunting to consider after reading posts from people who are EXTREMELY disappointed with their floors.


    I understand that it is probably best to use components from within the same system. However, I’ve read where people use a DuraSeal stain with a Bona finish, for example. I‘ve also read (wood flooring business forum) that you can use a product like Bona Traffic HD as a finisher instead of one of Ciranovas’s finishers (it was actually being recommended after using a reactive stain and one of their oil based products). Would Bona Traffic (HD or regular) be better than using Ciranova’s Fortico 2c if I decide to use a wb system? If I choose an oil based system, can Ciranova’s pink blocker 2c be used prior to using RMC OR do I need to stay within the “Ciranova family“ of products? I have a chemical engineering undergrad degree so I understand the importance of chemical reactions - but, obviously, I haven’t researched the ingredients in each product - nor do I want to!


    Sorry for the long comment. I hope that it’s not an issue that I posted this here vs. starting a separate post. It seemed logical to do so considering that my questions are related to previous comments contained in this discussion.


    Also, I apologize if any of the foregoing is confusing- I had a surgical procedure a couple days ago and I’m feeling a bit “fuzzy” right now!


    Thanks!

  • SJ McCarthy
    6 months ago
    last modified: 6 months ago

    @dmac1108 I'll answer the water damage question. I've seen the warping (as photo above) occurring after HOURS and hours of water sitting on the floor. Many people see this type of warping after Gallons and gallons and gallons of water sitting for 20-30 hours.

    I've also seen this level of warping with only 2 coats of finish (the cheaper option). As you know all polyurethane has micro sized 'holes' (for lack of a better word) when it cures. Those holes allow fluids to pass through. Two coats are more permeable than three coats.

    Which means if you have 2 coats + gallons of water sitting for A few hours, you get the same warping as 3 coats with many more gallons sitting for longer. And then the quality of the polyurethane comes into play.

    The variables continue if you add in human error. If the human applies the coats TOO THIN, you get a more permeable finish than someone who likes a more generous coat.....yah...The variables come fast once you add in the human factor.

  • HU-884120615
    6 months ago

    SJ McCarthy, your correct. The cupping on my floor due to the spilled water is less noticeable now than it was a few weeks ago. It’s still there, but not as bad. Thanks

  • PRO
    G & S Floor Service
    6 months ago

    Ciranova ?


    Pink Blocker can be used with any competitors brand stain. I have not experienced any issue. You do need to buff with a maroon pad prior to applying a stain with other manufacturer's WB PU. I have not applied any other WB except for Ciranova's own WB PU over Pink blocker. No time for experimenting.


    Pink Blocker is a reactive stain. It is water soluble. Ciranova has a binder in their invisible line finishes : Ecofix plus, Woodlook Plus and Oculto. It helps prevent reactivating the stain and moving the color around.


    Reactive stain can be applied after pink blocker. Still needs buffing with maroon pad. You can use the regular reactive stain on red oak. It will not be as intense as if, it was applied onto white oak. Aquavintage is a two part reactive stain. hardwax oil , oil poly or wb poly can be applied. If, using WB poly, use one of Ciranova's invisible poly. Ecofix for light natural colors. Woodlook for whites and grays and Oculto for dark tone reactive stains. It is water soluble, competitors WB PU will move finish around.


    If, you want a WB system that looks like a oil finish. Ciranova's invisible line is what you want. It will look as natural or raw as can be with the protection of a WB system. For added protection, you can do two coats of their invisible finish and two coats of Fortico. Fortico is comparable to Bona Traffic HD and Loba's Supra AT. You can top coat Ciranova's invisible finishes with competitors WB finishes. That will help keep cost down. Only downside, if, you run into issues. The tech support will not help you. Use your own discretion.


    Unico is the same as RMC. It's a single coat oil system with the added benefits of being able to apply a WB PU over it. It's soft, top coat with one coat of Titan or two coats of Fortico for the added protection. Titan is better than RMC.


    Note: every manufacturer alters their binders slightly in their finishes to make it unique. It creates issues with other manufacturers products. You would need to test samples to make sure there are no finishing issues.


    I have used Ciranova's reactive stain with RMC and Pallmann's oil with no issues. I have tried applying a competitors WB PU over Ciranova's reactive stain with no success. It moves the color around. But when used with Ciranova's invisible PU, no issues. You can apply dewaxed shellac over the reactive stain and apply a competitor's WB PU or just apply oil base poly. Keep in mind oil base poly will turn yellow. For aged look, it does not look good.


    If, you want the aged look use Ciranova. you won't be disappointed, unless your guy does not know how to use it.


    For a stained look, you can use any other brand. The colors are all the same, besides Duraseal, which has more colors available than anyone.

  • James
    8 days ago

    Loba Supra AT has exceptional dirability and chemical amd scratch resistance. The key componemt kn thos finish is that it is ceramic fortified. Call of you wish to discuss at 475 241 4073

    i work for Loba in new england and i was a floor sander for 35 years

  • dmac1108
    6 days ago

    @James - i appreciate the offer - I am going to take you up on it later this week! I believe that @SJ McCarthy has recommended Loba Supra AT several times in threads I’ve read.


    Refinishing my floors was postponed in order to renovate my kitchen, powder room and laundry room first. I figured that it would be smart to have thise areas completed prior to my floors.


    I did purchase some Ciranova Pink Blocker to try on some red oak. I have some red oak floors in my house that I’d like to refinish so they will complement the European Oak (reactive stain) that has been installed upstairs and in my hearth room and study. I haven’t determined the best way to do that yet!

  • James
    6 days ago

    there 2 ways to do this 2 coats of pink blocker amd apply finish amd of will be close to white oak… not euro white oak.

    Or…. rip out the red oak and do euro oak to match the upstairs. Thos is what Id do for two reasons. FirstODST, youre not going to match red oak to euro white. Second, better resale value

    reach out anytime