I agree that adding photos will help immensely. Also, what do you want to do with your patio, and what direction does it face? For example, if you want to eat supper out there and it is west facing, you will want some shade to make it useable. How you plan to use it will influence other factors such as size, materials, etc. In the meantime, here is a link with lots of photos of designer patios. Look at them less as a blueprint than with an eye toward what appeals to you: Do you like a simple symmetrical shape or irregular? What materials do you like? Do you like them raised or level with the ground? Will you be planting around it and if so, generally what types of plantings appeal to you? Do you like structures such as walls or trellises, or do you want it more open? What do you need room for: a couple of chairs, a large dining table, a fire pit of some kind, etc? Are you planning yours as a DIY and if so, how much experience do you have, and how much work do you want to take on? For instance, what looks flat may not in fact actually be flat and so may require some evaluation and leveling as well as being sure that precipitation will move away from the house and not toward it. A zone or general area where you live will help also, since some choices will depend on whether or not you need to worry about freezing temperatures, snow removal, huge amounts of rain, etc. Here is a link that might be useful: [Houzz patios[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/patio-ideas-phbr0-bp~t_725)

Dear Friends, I'm building a 8 feet radius round flagstone patio on my sloppy backyard (As pictured, DIY). I dig off a foot and half on the left, the front and right side of the patio will still be above the ground. Originally my design is to build a base with 5 inches of crush stone base, surrounded by retaining wall block (left, front side). Mix about 2 inch of mortar and stick Flagstone (already bought 2 tons stone about 1.5-2" thickness) on top of the base and wall. I am hopping the mortal will hold the stone well so it won't shift off the slop. As I read more on the internet and I have the concern the patio will end up crack for the way I lay it (people mentioned different expansion ratio of the mortar and stone etc). Here I would like to hear some advises for how should I continue. 1. Am I OK to continue my original plan. Will cracking really a concern in Atlanta GA area, the overall weather hear is mild with a few freezing days. I'll try to compact the base as much as i can. Maybe increase the mortal layer to 3 inches would help? Should I build a rough concrete patio enforced with metal bar, say 3 inches thickness. On top, lay the flagstone with mortar. Will this keep the patio in shape better than plan 1 above. Should I be better off dry laid flag stone. It actually take less effort to do. Add Stone dust on top of pave base and do dry laid. I am worry the rain water will end up wash off the base and fillings in the crack. It will be hard to keep the stones intact over the long run. Really appreciate your comment to guide me further.

"Problem is finding a good paver "setter" who has a bit of creativity & vision." It's a mistake to think that paver installers are the ones that should be responsible for designing the project. Installers are primarily interested in installing the maximum square footage of patio that you will buy, and could probably care less about the layout, other than that they would prefer you provide a good one so they can walk away with pride and end up with a decent project for their portfolio. While they will design it by default, if you don't provide a design, the quality of their ideas will be on on you. If you don't have the design skills (alone or in conjunction with this forum) to design the patio, then you should be consulting with a LANDSCAPE DESIGNER, not a paver installer. Get the design done first, and then find an installer to place it. If you don't have a design (on paper) then you have nothing to bid on. In that case, every contractor you talk to will recommend different things and the pricing will be all over map. You'll have bids you can't compare with other bids because they'll all be for different things. As far as 12' vs. 14' depth, I would consider 12' the absolute minimum usable dimension. A designer would want to know the exact furniture that you're placing on the patio, and the contingencies for when you want to set up for the occasional larger group for special occasions, if that ever happens. Even if it never happens for you, it would be typical of most households. If resale (ever) is a concern, I wouldn't make the patio the absolute smallest a person can "get by" with. One that is of a size usable for a typical "family" with your size house in your type of neighborhood, would be a better choice. Rarely does anyone make a patio that they think is too large. Usually, they're wishing they had a little more space. I suggest figuring out your furniture and all uses and make the patio comfortably large enough to accommodate everything with a little extra room added. There's little point to building something new that you regret soon after you start using it. The difference in cost between barely-big-enough and comfortable is not that great. Buried utilities rarely limit a patio's placement. Water, sewer, gas, electricity are (should be) deep enough to be well below a patio. They might warrant some caution in excavation, but this is nothing to be fretting over. Irrigation lines might be shallow, but still probably won't be a problem. In the worst case scenario, if they are very shallow, they can easily be rerouted. (Some reconfiguration is likely anyway, since you don't want to be watering your patio.) Cable and telephone (if anyone has that any more) tends to the shallowest. These can both be rerouted to a lower placement or different route. Whether you abut or space it away from the structure, in order to make room for foundation beds, make the patio length (its longest dimension) be parallel to the home, not perpendicular to it. (Something said earlier made me think this was possibly going wrong.)

I have not used charcoal grey or brown stains. Blues and greens do not hold up outside. Have used black and red and it was on concrete that had been surface ground with a carborundum stone grinder. The black was dark and harsh like a fresh hair dye job at first, but then faded over a year's time to a nice taupe grey, and I like it just fine. (I applied it twice and let it set overnight the 2nd time.) The red was orange rust colored and I did not care for it at all. The stains, being watery, spatter easily and stain any masonry object nearby if any gets on it. I don't know how it would stain other materials. I applied it with a broom and got fine splatter mist on nearby masonry. (It does not look horrible but I would have preferred it not happen. Slightly worse, I had areas that ran, bled and pooled into seams between pavers ... and those look like crying after an already bad mascara job.) Something that would mop it on with would probably be better. Mask off anything nearby on which you don't want stain.