I have Sum and Substance in a lot of sun and it burns here. By the end of summer it pretty much looks like crap but it is huge! I should move it but I don't really have any space to move it to. It is about 6' across and very big. BTW, I live in northern Utah. If you live in one of the more northern states, it would probably be fine with a lot of sun. Atlantis does much better for me in the sun than Sum and Substance does.

This is my SS in pretty much shade all day, and it has been here for AT LEAST 3 years.

I really love it because I don't have to keep watering it when we don't get a ton of rain, excuse my weeds, it's been hella hot here, so I'm staying inside in the AC, but, I'm sure had I planted it in more sun, it would need watered more often when we hadn't gotten a lot of rain, I have another one not far from this one that is a bit larger, but, not too much larger. This one is in between 2 Rhododendrons, Asian varieties, not the native to the US kind.

Linda's Garden, if I were you I would try sowing an acorn of an oak tree that does well in Utah right next to this hosta, soon you will have a shade tree right next to your Sum and Substance Hosta, and it could eventually shade enough of a plot to where you can have a shade garden there, maybe try to plant the acorn of an oak that tends to grow kinda fast there and is totally hardy there. If you do that you will succeed in having a shade garden, at least that makes sense to me. Maybe even have 2 or 3 of those acorns sown, I think in a few years you could have a very nice shade garden started, and over a few years after those trees get to casting some shade, you can expand the area and grow more and more shade plants, that's how I've gotten to plant several shade plants, but, I know that I will need to wait several more years before I am totally happy with all the area in shade where I can add more shade plants, I suggest oaks in the RED oak family for the fastest growth, but, if you have seedlings already in your woodland or yard that are in the White oak family, let em grow, if you aren't sure if they are red or white, but, you know they are oak seedlings, oaks are the best trees to grow shade plants under, just keep those seedlings unless they are super thickly growing, then just chose 1 of the nicest ones to keep.

LInda's garden, if you haven't seen any oak seedlings in your garden, maybe you should try to sow an acorn of an oak that is hardy in your area, if you want an acorn of an oak, in the fall or early fall maybe even August, go on the trees forum and ask for Poaky1 to send you acorns from a Chestnut oak, I am Poaky1, and I have 2 Chestnut oaks, they are in the White oak family, and they grow sorta fast, but, they also put out acorn when pretty young, so you may get deer in your yard after this tree is about 4-5 years old, because it will start making acorns at 4-5 years old, and that may mean that you will have to protect some of your plants that deer like. I never had a deer problem before my Chestnut oaks started producing acorns, after that deer are here in my yard in late August eating the acorns from the tree, and they love the native Rhododendrons that I now have planted in my yard, they don't touch the Asian Rhody's that everyone can get from Wal-Mart, or anywhere, but, if you get the native Rhody's, they will chomp em up big time, so I have to put cages around all of mine in fall until late spring. But, I've heard that deer love hostas, but, hey, I've never seen any damage to my hostas, but, I have just planted 2 "Empress wu hostas under a Chestnut oak, which is the same tree that I'd had deer eat some of my native Rhody down, and these are now baby Hostas, but, they will be huge after a couple of years, and I think that deer will try and eat them once they get any size to em. I mean really, Empress Wu will be huge from what I'd heard, that's why I bought and planted them. But, I have several Hostas that have been growing under my Chestnut oak, and they are kinda big, and the deer have never touched them, so maybe having a chestnut oak isn't meaning that Hostas will be eaten, and really if they (deer) come in late August, like they do in my zone 6a yard, under the "Chestnut oak (Querucus Montana) by then all of out Hostas have started to go into dpormancy anyway. But, really, if you choose another oak to plant or sow seeds from, you won't need to worry about acorns falling as soon, hell, your zone 6a, so you can chose from many oaks, Nuttals oak is an oak that is definitely zone 6a hardy, I have several, they are a red oak family oak, and can take wet to normal soils, they grow about 2 feet or 3 feet a year in full sun. Sorry for rambling, but, my Sum and Substance has grown great in shade, both of em have.

My second pic here shows the other Sum and Substance in the far left place in this pic, the plants in this container are Nasturtiums and Cosmos, the yellow groundcover is "Penny wort" or I think that;s the name of it, with Solomons Seal at the upper right, the big green plant, the SS is close to the white painted metal yard ornament at the upper left of the pic, you may need to click on the pic to see a larger form of my pic, this is a huge SS hosta, but, my pic was taken to show off the plants in the round pot really.

Yeah, sorry, you can barely see my SS Hosta in the pic above.

Hi Poaky1 - Are there any special instructions for moving a 2 or 3 year old Oak seedling?

Poaky1 - that is about the darkest green S&S ever!

Never seen one with white flowers, either.

Garden looks great!

Well, Nicolsworth shows some pretty dark green Hostas ( Sum and Substance) I am thinking, they are Sum and Substance. But, anyway, they are possibly not really dark leaved if they are not growing in mostly shade, I've seen many Sum and Substance Hostas that were kinda bright green leaved, but, my SS Hostas are deep green leaved because they are in deep shade. I do have other Hostas that I have growing in only part shade, but, I will always think that Sum and substance looks best in mostly shade.

my Sum and Substance are lighter in color than most of my other hostas..I bought SS, August Moon and Fire Island to have some contrast from all of my "regular" green ones..you can see that SS is lighter than the hosta above it in my second pic..I think Claudia's are in more sun and lighter than mine..I enjoy having lighter shades of green..

Maybe if you were growing them in your basement! Given leaf and flower color I suggest it is not a S&S.

Gardencool for whom Is this reply? Mine have no flowers yet and I can’t see flowers on Nicole’s fotos..but than... Iam not wearing my glasses right now either lol

nickelsworth have you a S&S with dark green leaves and white flowers as does poaky1 in his above photo in this thread for which I've already pointed out. S&S is one of the most readily identifiable hostas out there.

gardencool..no..poaky1's is different than mine..

Mine get full blazing sun most of the day and are surrounded by hot rocks to boot. I would describe the color as a nice bright, light green but wouldn't call them yellow in any way.

arcy - your S&S looks great. You have the acreage and that is what S&S needs and where they look best. S&S WILL take over the location it is in. My very first hosta purchase - bare root - didn't survive - soured me on bare root hosta buys. Got a potted S&S shortly thereafter. Only hosta I've ever sold too - a small division twice.

What is that large dark green leafed hosta next to your S&S? Maybe that is what poaky1 has!

Arcy your garden looks like something you see in a magazine!! Did you level the soil in this slanted way or was your property already like that? It’s perfect for showing off themplants in the back!

love your “vase” growing Hosta in themlast picture to the left hand side! I can’t quite tell what it is, do you know?

thank you for sharing your pictures. I have hope for my garden. I literally came just in after cutting for roughly 7 hours today Buckthorn down and hauling tree logs with my son out of the way. It’s sometimes so overwhelming and I just want to give up. Than photos like uours makes me think my piece of property can look like yours one day.

Thank you claudia and gardencool. We have about three acres. Except for the grass area which was average size for mowing it is heavily wooded. We have done nothing other than the back patio as far as creating different terrains. The slant is the back side of our Mound-sewer system. That "hill" is the only FULL sun I have and no planting allowed on it!!! Our first days here, May of 1999,we discovered not a single breeze could make it though and thus the mosquitoes were eating my kids alive. We started out raising the canopy and clearing weeds/brush/BUCK THORN and any sapling not larger than my DH's forearm, to see if that would help. I worked early mornings at a green house and was paid mostly in plants. Now the gardens are 20years old and really take care of themselves. So yes the work load does get better!! Back in the day I paid my Jr. High age son fifty cents each to dig smaller stumps!! I go out a few hours each week and pull weeds/saplings but nothing too ambitious. Yesterday I took a couple of different trips to hunt/spray slugs. I found the GardenWeb early and read Ken's advise RELIGIOUSLY. Won't say I followed it all to the letter, but things have worked out. I used to know all/most of my hosta names. As a rule I have only old time tried and true, no fancy very expensive hosta. I have lost track and so many look so much alike I gave up trying to remember and sort them all out. My "collecting" came to a halt when I realized I couldn't keep track and they were all starting to look so much alike!!. But I think the one you are asking about is regal splendor..it came from a neighbor. Labels are long gone..I did a lot of rearranging in the beginning so losing track was easy. My house is surrounded with gardens about 20 feet deep along the grass line.

right side/round back

I have tons of companion plants in my hosta beds, varieties of ferns/astilbe/vinca vines/garden primrose/toad lilies even Lilies of the Valley!! There are also woodland natives Jack's and three varieties of Solomon's seal as well as trillium and other blooming 'weeds'. Anything that brings COLOR is pretty welcome in my gardens.

Arcy, you have a lovely garden!

Arcy - It IS lovely! And I just have to say that your story encouraged me... so I was really glad to read the account of how you developed your garden. Recently someone made the comment to me that I wouldn't want to be bothered by all this in 20 years.... Well, whether or not that is true, it isn't a reason for me to stop gardening now. In 20-25 years I'll just have to make that call. And your comment that the garden has begun to take care of itself to some degree is very encouraging as well. That's my plan - to get things somewhat established, then work on and enjoy the maintenance. My garden is still in "the building years," but I can already see that the hostas, and other perennials that are getting some size on them, do a great job of reducing the need for weeding. Unfortunately, I still have a number of places where the plants are small, or where I haven't planted much yet... and those areas got away from me this year because I just wasn't able to get it all mulched. Now it's just too darn hot to be spreading a load of mulch!

Anyway - thanks for sharing the positive story and beautiful pictures!

Hey, gardencool and everyone else, I could have a different hosta than S&S, but, I'm pretty sure that is what I purchased it as when I bought it from a mail order nursery, I can't recall which one though, the other 1 I think is S&S is dark green too, but, has no flowers, I have only purchased 2 types of huge potential growing Hosta, and that is Sum and Substance, and the Empress Wu, I got 2 of them, they are small, I just planted them this spring. So what other huge or biggest Hostas are there?

And Connie, as far as the oak, wait until it's dormant then dig it up, try to keep a good bit of roots, but, make sure they aren't circling around each other, but, you likley did that when you first planted it anyway, then (of course make the hole not any deeper than the roots, but, a bit wider, I try about 6 inches wider on each side.

Then cover with native soil, sometimes you may need to add some bagged TOPSOIL, just to have enough soil (in my experience anyway) then mulch and water very well. If I forgot something Ken can add it, of course keep it water well when there's not enough rain, but, don't overdo it, since the tree will be dormant, it won't need a ton of moisture until next growing season. Sometimres digging an oak up after it being in the ground for 2-3 years is harder than you'd think, if it was sown from an acorn in the ground originally, you just may have a real job there ahead of you, hope your soil isn't as rocky as mine is, you may need some power digging equiptment if your soil is hard clay, or rocky, and if the oak is a Burr oak they CAN have taproots go down as deep as 7 feet, I've read that before. Hopefully yours was planted from a nursery pot, then it will just be a bit hard, but, not too bad, I was able to move one myself, and I'm not in too great shape. I did need to use a saws all too cut the root that grew into the soil, but, a guy in great shape or a determined woman in not great shape can do it, with some small power equiptment.

Thanks Poaky1 - really appreciate the advice. This plant is from an acorn and right next to a fence but still young. This pic is from late last season- colour is the same this season.

arcy..such a pretty garden!..as windymess said - I'm also encouraged to hear you say that as plants have matured there's less work..I've been working on half an acre for 13 years and I'm just now seeing the light at the end of the tunnel..the trees and shrubs I planted are good sized now and I'm doing edging and rearranging some perennials ..the work ahead is less daunting than what's behind me..I would NOT want to start over..

"Recently someone made the comment to me that I wouldn't want to be bothered by all this in 20 years.... "

Yeah, we all be dead soon enough so why bother? The pessimist's guide to gardening!

Zen and the art of gardening( an inquiry into values) - someone needs to write that book. Or maybe it is already written?

“Peace of mind produces right values, right values produce right thoughts. Right thoughts produce right actions and right actions produce work which will be a material reflection for others to see of the serenity at the center of it all.” ― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

Connie, sorry for the confusing post above (I deleted it) I sometimes have some booze to drink when I answer my messages, but, it is a Red oak family oak, I am not sure which of the Red oaks it is though. Ken is really knowledgeable on trees as well as Hostas, so he may be able to help. And sometimes seedlings can have different leaves than more mature trees, but, fall color can help too. I will take a guess that it may be a Northern Red oak, but, time will tell, or maybe Ken or someone else here who knows a bit about oak trees. Sorry for the confusing post that was above.

BTW, if you see what kinda trees are around your yard, or nearby, that may help too, an animal buried it there, so I'm guessing mama isn't too far away.

PWI - posting while intoxicated. NEVER a good idea.

You are right gardencool, but, fortunately, I don't go on Facebook. I know, it's bad enough on Gardenweb. But, hey, Conniemay, I hope somebody can tell you what type of oak it is, try the Trees forum on gardenweb.

I just got my Hosta "Stephen King" today, it's a super tall (about 3 1/2 ft to 4 ft ) tall hosta with nice red stems. I've been wanting a red stemmed Hosta. I will post pics eventually. It will need staked by the looks of it.