Val B, would you mind elaborating abit please? Why the hate?

Few, if any, pro installers want anything to do with NEST thermostats. I don't know if this is due to reliability issues or profit margin (!?)

I can understand them perhaps not warranteeing labor on the thermostat, but not the rest of the system. If that's what they are saying, find a new installer.

I have one unit that continuously has trouble connecting to its nest. I have another unit that doesn't turn off the unit when I adjust it on the nest (it's a several minute delay) and I have one unit that turns on when the fan is off. Another issue with the nest, which doesn't have to do with the installation in my apartment, is that there's no "hold" button. Let's say I'm going away for the weekend and want to leave it at 60 degrees for 3 days. On my parents 20 year old thermostat, i would put it down to 60 degrees, hit the hold button and then his resume program when I'm ready for it to go back to schedule. I haven't been able to find a way to do this simply on the next. I tried an away function and it didn't work. Maybe you can help me with that!

Also, two are installed on walls next to bedroom doors. When my kids slam the door really hard (8' solid wood door) it can knock the nest out of the wall. I'd would be nice if the unit were one piece instead of having the back piece screwed on with the other piece on top. Working on not having my kids slam the doors. It's a work in progress.

Val B, the Nest will do that for you, It's just not presented as a traditional hold. Its called Eco mode. Set your Eco mode temp to what you want your hold temp to be, set the thermostat to away, and there you have it! If you have the Nest setup so that it detects if you are away(it can use your phone's location), it can do this for you automatically every day.

The delay and not turning off immediately is normal, its not like a light switch. Especially if you have cool to dry turned on, where the fan keeps running to get the cold and condensation off of the coils after the compressor turns off.

You might appreciate the Nest's features abit more after reading up on it abit...

There are some in which the nest works with hardly a problem, but overall there are too many problems with them and out of those problems some of them are nuisance related problems.

Nuisance related problems are costly. Warranties work by solving the problem, otherwise the customer keeps calling back and because the system has a warranty on it they expect there to be no charge for the call.

Nest thermostats can't be diagnosed as the problem while attached to the system if you disconnect wires from the nest it will give error codes that it senses you've disconnected something. (Diagnosing if the nest is the problem: remove from wall and replace with another thermostat, if the problem disappears it was either the nest or user error. There is no way to truly know other than that.)

So this makes troubleshooting harder and longer to perform. Warranties don't pay for nuisance type calls. It has to be a concrete 'we found the problem' and fixed it. Because the warranty isn't there to just keep paying out for what is commonly known as nuisance calls 'erratic system behavior' is a few more words for it.

I'm thinking my best course of action here is to just let the HVAC company install the lyric 6 in my system, run it for a few weeks to make sure there are no issues, then install the nest thermostat myself.

There is probably some clause in the labor warranty fine print that will void your warranty for such things as this.

From the reviews I read online, the Honeywell Lyric T6 has its share of problems and bad ratings too. I don't like being forced to go with a product just because someone can make a higher profit on it when they sell it to me, or they don't want me to use something else because I might not need them for support.

https://www.missionac.com/blog-air-conditioning-repair-news-tips-product-reviews-energy/2013/9/27/why-hvac-techs-hate-the-nest-thermostat

How long is the labor warranty and is it backed by the HVAC installer or by a third party?

1 year, backed by the installer.

System specs:

We will install a new Trane 14 SEER 4 ton air conditioner paired with variable speed

two stage 95oh 100,000 BTUH gas furnace

Gas Fumace Model # TS9V0I00UA3

Outdoor Unit Model # TTR4048

Coil Model # PXC*048

EWC Zone controller separating lst and 2nd levels

10" Bypass Damper

Whole house dehumidification

Air Cleaner Electronic/Media

Also included in this proposal:

Galvanized metal ducting in both the basement and attic

Flexible duct runs to all 2nd floor supply and return air terminations hom main trunk

duct

All duct joints to be sealed using mastic and UL181 tape

Retum air vents in all rooms necessary

All ductwork outside of conditioned space wrapped with and R-8 insulation

Dryer box

Standard range, dryer and bathroom venting

Honeywell Digital programmable thermostats on both levels

Condensate piping

Secondary drain pans with float switches under both indoor units

Secondary drain piping to exterior above window in attic space.

Properly sized refrigerant lines

Low voltage wiring of all components

High density outdoor unit pads

House is 2600 sq ft, basement that is conditioned is an additional 900 sq ft.

Let the HVAC company use their recommended thermostat. They are 'on the hook' to make it work. If you insist on using a Nest, then you are making yourself a third party.

You have have zoned system. This increases the odds there will be some system issues. You want to avoid having to pay for labor charges for incorrect installation problems.

The Honeywell Lyric Round Thermostat has the geofence feature. This will allow detection when smart phones are home. Ask your installer if he would agree install this thermostat instead of the Lyric T6 and honor the labor warranty. It will cost him an a little more money, but not much when looking at your total investment.

I don't know if the Lyric Round will integrate with CO and smoke detectors. You may have to come up with another solution if that is important to you.

I would not put a generic PCM in my car that is advertised to work on all brands and models. Why would I want to put a generic aftermarket controller on my HVAC system. Why would I expect the dealership mechanics who have no training on that part of the Frankensystem to know how to deal with it?

As a computer scientist: why do you want to install a 3rd party product, that you are responsible for? Also, smoke detectors attached to the Nest - just plain stupid. Get a LSS for real protection.

If smoke and fire detection can shut off HVAC blowers, that is a real advantage. Better yet are residential sprinkler systems.

sktn77a - its a bit of both, actually.

The HVAC trade doing my house refused to put in a NEST, citing too many problems....but they also wired our thermostat so that it thought our A/C was a heat pump, and the HRV backwards so that no new air was getting into the house. (The look on the GC's face when forced to admit that we were correct was PRICELESS).

We had a few other contractors (who we called in to assess the above issues as a neutral 3rd party so that we could serve our builder with some hefty proof), and they all admitted that with the new rebates (in our area anyways), the nest was as cheap to buy in retail stores as they could buy them. So no incentive to install them.

My house is getting a residential sprinkler system installed, it is code here.

I belong to a pro hvac forum. while usually not discussed in

public forums in great detail, most pro's do have issues with NEST.

I'm hearing ecobee is better choice.

personally...I don't see the need to be that much 'in control'.

I set my temp and leave it alone. but I'm also becoming

something of a luddite. LOL!

best of luck

The main problem with Nest thermostat is that it is an energy thief. It steals power because it's a power hungry device (24v). The system transformer has a VA rating, if the VA rating of the transformer is exceeded it will cause an abundance of erratic behavior. The Nest has no option to install batteries... because they knew it would eat batteries too fast. It's power hungry, remember?

So even if you attach the 'C' wire, you could still have problems with the Nest. When you say HVAC system, this does not mean that each system is identical.

Yet, Google (current owner of Nest products) sells this device to the non-professional HVAC contractor and in many cases a home owner. It may work for you, but the evidence of the contrary is also correct.

You can't trouble shoot the nest, if you start disconnecting wires from it to diagnose it, the device itself will give error messages.

I have been in homes recently in which there were multiple nest thermostats that were working. But more often than not it's 50/50. 50 percent that it won't work.

Does the Ecobee 4 have the same energy issues as the nest?

Out of curiosity I looked up the product data sheets for the Nest and the Ecobee 4. The Nest is rated at less than 1 kWh per month, which means less than 1.4 W, while the Ecobee 4 is rated for 3.5 VA which is effectively 3.5 W for a residential house. So if you believe these numbers then the Ecobee 4 consumes 2 -3 times more power than the Nest. I would not describe either as power hungry.

The Nest has a built in lithium battery, but it is too small to power the WiFi radio all the time.

I think the problem is the lack of a the C wire when installing a WiFi thermostat. With Ecobee you either provide a C wire or install a power extender kit to create the extra ground wire. I think the Nest claims the C wire is not required because it uses a pulse scheming to steal power to keep the internal battery charged. I think this is where the problems start. The pulsing scheme does not work will all HVAC control boards. Nest does not explain this and the homeowner or HVAC installer has to find this out by trial and error.

I would think so. You have a basic wiring configuration that the Nest should be able to handle. If it can't then Nest shouldn't be in the thermostat business, which is the opinion of some HVAC professionals.

I got a Nest as part of the local utility's promotion, and found (after I paid for it and opened the instructions) that it was not compatible with my Rheem system -- I had to open the existing thermostat and go the Nest website to find this out. I had to pay the shipping cost to return it!

How does my whole house de-humidifier work with how this is wired up?

Was a dehumidifier installed?

yes

Zone systems (zone boards specifically) are designed electrically to have proper sized transformer. Again with the VA rating? Yes, this isn't voodoo magic. If the electrical loads (24v) are not properly sized to the transformer you will have erratic system behavior.

For that reason, I would NEVER choose the Nest for those kinds of applications. The odds are low that it will work and / or for very long. Heavy system loads. These loads change thru out the season. If you want something to work, shouldn't it just work any time rather than sometimes?

It's one thing to get a system to work in 80 degree weather, it's quite another to keep it working under a 95-100 degree heat wave. This comment is primarily directed at a HVAC zone system. (in case others without a zone system read this thread)

I haven't had any issues with Ecobee, but I don't see this kind of T-stat all that often because Ecobee is primarily designed for use in commercial type applications.

I am a Texas licensed HVAC contractor and service the Katy, Texas area.

TACLB28416E

You will need to ask your installer how the whole house dehumidifier is integrated into your system and how it will be controlled. When you find out please post the answer. I am curious to know how it is supposed to work.