SHOP PRODUCTS
Houzz Logo Print
_____________48801

To be apt: windowless (sort of) rooms, small spaces - need help ...

Влади Цветков
5 years ago
last modified: 5 years ago

Me and my family (currently: me, my wife and a 3 year old) just jumped ship and paid the first 30% downpayment for an apartment being built as we speak (due date March 2019).

The total livable surface will be 55 sqm.

Originally it was 2 big rooms, but we decided to settle for this flat due to budgetary constraints + we thought we can make it work even with 2 (originally) windowless rooms.

The spaces are rather small so light + proper colors will be cruical - therefore I need LOTS of help with colors and room arrangement ....

My wife and I did some preliminary "arrangements" but all seems to be off and is a mess in our heads. Good thing is that we have lots of time ahead - nevertheless - the sooner the better :)

So here is the plan - after the room on the left and on the right were separated with a new wall with window/ window + door to allow for some more natural light. We are now left with a living/dining room 17.5sqm, 2 kids rooms 8.15sqm each, master bedroom 10.5sqm, a bathroom 4.2sqm, hallway 3.5sqm, balcony 3.7sqm, and a really small emergency bathroom 0.6sqm:



Here is a preliminary design (note that some colors chosen are so - just because of software limitation - using some free online tool here...).





What I've read online is :

  • For all the windows - to use curtains that go from the floor almost all the way up to the ceiling - to create the illusion of a bigger room.However what colour we should aim for?
  • For the floors and walls - what would be the most appropriate colors to imply more space and light?
  • We thought of white mostly - but it kind of resembles a hospital in the end so not sure if white floors, walls and furniture would do the trick ...
  • We were thinking - white-ish floors and walls and brown-ish furniture with white/pale colors for the kitchen set (reflective) + mirrors where possible ...
  • The Sofa size we were thinking of is around 230cm (length).
  • The dining table that we sort of like is 120 and extendable to 180cm (the sizes in the rendering are matching this...)
  • For the Master bedroom - we were thinking of a large wardrobe :
  • 2.40 in height (wall height is 2.45-2.50 after insulation) and some 1.60->1.80 in width.
  • Also where and what lights we should think of...
  • Will the new walls with windows be sufficient to provide at least some natural light ?
  • As I said ... it's a big mess in my head and I need help :)

Thanks for any tips etc.

If anyone is interested I can give the link to the design online so people can mess with this (if the software allows for it directly).

Thanks a million!

V.


P.S. The Apartment will be South oriented (bottom of the sketch) if that matters so I am sort of expecting sufficient light throughout the day.

Comments (16)

  • eld6161
    5 years ago

    I would suggest that you also post this on the building a home forum. I think they can critique your designs and offer good tips.

  • Влади Цветков
    Original Author
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    I think I got what you mean and changed the settings so that the post appears there as well. Cheers!

  • Related Discussions

    need help heating garage apt.

    Q

    Comments (3)
    This is an excellent application for a mini-split heat pump. Produce heat down to 0 and electric heat below that. Very efficient with SEER ratings in the 19 range.
    ...See More

    What color to paint a small windowless bathroom?

    Q

    Comments (5)
    The best small bathrooms & powder rooms I've seen are the ones in which everything really ties together, no quirky odd elements or tangents, & it seems like you can "get away with" more in a small space than in a big one. You can be more starkly modern, more decadently Deco, more specialized & individual. You can put down a floor that looks like water (don't know how that's done, but it's cool), you can use a bright orange 70's theme, things you'd never do in a bigger space. I saw one below-the-stairs powder room that was done in a Victorian theme, very busy wallpaper in warm gold/brown/burgundy tones, dark hardware, dark cabinetry, etc. It was like a perfect little gem. & it wasn't exhausting to the eye because of course nobody spent much time there.
    ...See More

    Need Color Help for Small, Windowless Bathroom

    Q

    Comments (2)
    Certainly ask the kids for suggestions, but in the meantime, I would concentrate your search on warmer colors that will compliment the warm sand color of the tile. I have a feeling something in the same family as the former yellowish cream color will probably be your best bet, although I could see a warmer green (with more yellow than blue) working in there. If you don't mind a dark color in a small space, a warm chocolate brown or a deep plum could look nice as well, although I have a feeling it might be overwhelming given that there are no windows.
    ...See More

    Need help with small kitchen counter space design

    Q

    Comments (14)
    Correct. The gas and water lines are stuck on that wall and crossing them over each other would be expensive and I'm not sure it would buy me too much. I considered moving either the sink or the range to the other wall, but since I couldn't do anything with the space above it due to the breaker box and front door buzzer (building doesn't allow moving it) I felt kind of stuck. Also, it's not the best thing to walk right into when first entering the apartment. Range is gas. There is a hood vented to an air duct that runs the whole building - here's another view: As far as the fridge is concerned - it's not counter depth. It has a pantry to the side followed by a small base cabinet, and a small cabinet above it (you can barely see it in the picture. The issue with a 24" sink cabinet is that it doesn't fit with the wall cabinet above it, which is 30" (smallest IKEA has with double doors - again I can't win).
    ...See More
  • My3dogs ME zone 5A
    5 years ago

    Here is the Building a home link - http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/build

    and also remodeling - http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/remodel
    Best of luck to you!

  • Sammy
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Vladi,

    If that’s your final floor plan (walls, windows, plumbing, etc.) then I think this would be the appropriate forum for your dilemma since you’re basically asking for help with decorating. :)

  • Влади Цветков
    Original Author
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    This is the plan that we think of for walls and windows. Although the windows for the self-built wall can be adjusted (as these walls are not there yet). Walls are not set as well - but this is the design we ended up with after a lot of thinking.

  • RaiKai
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    I really like your use of interior windows. We did that in a couple rooms in our house that otherwise would have seemed a bit dark. It can really open the spaces up where you don't have option of exterior windows. Hopefully some others can give you design tips, as that is not my strongest suit, but even in your demo I do like your choice of the white and wood kitchen. I am not sure what your style is, but I do like the mix of white modern slab cabinets with warm wood in smaller spaces.

    Влади Цветков thanked RaiKai
  • aprilneverends
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Hi Vladi,

    first, don't worry too much ahead of a time. Leaving aside my personal experience things often get delayed in construction, some things plainly will be very hard to decide on unless you can visit at least an unfinished space(can you?) and get some feel of it..the rest is best done after one moves in. I know it's messier, and takes longer, but one gets more intimately acquainted with the house and himself, in relation to the house, thus his choices become more considerate, and less chances for mistakes.

    Of course one should plan as much as he can in advance-window placements, storage, openings, plumbing, lighting..painting can be done successfully if one already has his other finishes chosen(flooring, woodwork..knowing general preference..posessing at least some of the stuff he loves, like furniture and accents that will give a clue to such preferences)

    In order to consult on colors, general rules are not enough at all since every house is unique, with amount of light it gets, ceiling's height, orientation, etc. Yes you'll read a lot how white helps-yet if the room is not big enough and doesn't get enough light, and the ceiling is on the lower side-many whites might appear dingy and sad. White works amazing when it can reflect light. If there's not enough light-there's not going to be much to reflect. Such rooms might benefit from deeper, mid-range colors.

    So. Is your window placement final? will there be more windows?

    What is the ceiling height?

    do you/will you have trees outside?

    The lighting. Hardwire as much as possible. You can always cover the opening meanwhile until you find the fixture you're content with, but it's easier to have electrical box in place from the get-go. I find that having central fixture in every room that allows it(yes, even standard ceilings) plus sconces where possible/making sense, chandeliers and pendants where making sense (dining?), floor lamps, and table lamps of different functions is the mix one should strive to have. Lots of different llights on different levels, each one with its function-overall light/mood light, task light, ambient light..light that allows one to just see in the space you know, or to enjoy the atmosphere, or the one that makes work, whether cooking or reading or stufying, possible. Account for it, and if possible add dimmers too. Lights are important everywhere; but in naturally darker place you really can't go wrong for accounting for it as much as possible.

    I understand you're in Europe. I remember our 5 door huge wardrobe/armoire being a savior in our first small places (similar family situation to yours, Europe as well)

    It stores a lot, so one needs to have less other pieces..the room seems bigger and roomier. I remember we chose one that interesting enough yet still unimposing..I think it was maple with grayish blue paint accent on the doors, so light but a tad different. We dragged it to every place afterwards until we moved here. Now I'm sure new owners are using it happily(more chance though our renters took it with them..knowing our renters..lol). Just make sure it fits and you love it enough..it's a big purchase that I wouldn't be inclined to switch any time soon. Make it the best quality you can buy-or check second hand. they used to make things better even 20 years ago. In genertal I highly recommend checking second hand furniture especially casegoods like desks, bookshelves, wardrobes..and lights too. Unless you have strong aversion to used things(there are people like that, and it's fine as everybody and his preferences and quirks) -they'll ive you much more superior quality for much better price. And of course more interesting, collected house. Since you'll have to collect it..:)\

    But even if and when buying new-don't do anything in haste. Make sure you have great mattresses:) The rest-give it time and consideration. start looking now. In smaller places especially you want every thing to be selected carefully, and be as versatile as possible. Sit on sofas and chairs when choosing. Don't leave your house without measuring tape and your plan:) I'm serious.

    Mirrors are great to have, just remember that they'll reflect most light when placed on the wall perpendicular to a window/light source and-you want them to reflect something pretty. Something you don't mind to see double of it. Unless it's for very functional purposes like the entry

    I couldn't help but notice your prospective TV is too high on the wall. best to put it on console..you want comfortable viewing distance without straining your neck or eyes. Even if you're tall-your kids are not. Also not everybody is lucky enough to always have a very healthy consitution that this looking up won't have its bear on him. Google "optimal distance for viewing TV"..you'll find tables, depending on TV sizes and such. You really want it as eue level as possible. Art/mirror/additional shelving can go where TV is

    Back to colors. All colors have shades. Hundreds of them. They can be cool or warm, clean or murky. Each on of us has their unique preferences. What are yours? What are colors you find most pleasing, to be surrounded with?

    Okay..I think it's time for me to wrap it up, for now..:)

    Congratulations on your new home being built, I know how exciting it is!

    ETA: I just had an opportunity to read Rai Kai's post..yes, I have an affinity to wood plus white/cream as well, dreamy combo, especially in modern slub cabinetry.

    Interior windows(are these windows?) are great for light and look amazing, but I'd be concerned with privacy, noise etc issues. When kids are very small it's one thing(my oldest shared a room with us until almost three..no biggie). when they grow up both you and them might dislike it.

  • annztoo
    5 years ago

    I think the layout could be fine-tuned a little more in order to maximize your usable space. Members on the building forum will help, but I think a few will say you don't need a wall between the kitchen and the entry door. Removing it will give you more room in the kitchen/LR and more room in the entry. 5 doors in a small entry is pretty crowded.

    Can you move any of the plumbing or does the builder set its location?


  • Влади Цветков
    Original Author
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Wow, so many answers! Let me give my input one by one ... as much as I can (bear with me for this one, please) :

    @Aprilneverends:

    In terms of visiting the location - I am afraid that the current status is still just around level 0 and the Apt. is just not there yet :)

    Act 14 (not sure if the same in US - which basically means that the rough construction works are finished) are planned for around August.

    Our idea is to plan as much as possible prior to actually seeing this (especially colors and even hunting some furniture), as well as how and where the walls will be etc. as this will also save some big $$ as opposed to "Yay - finished - now let's decorate asap and move in" :)

    Colors - we would want as light as possible, but still keep the feeling of comfy. We originally thought of opting for predominantely white-ish colors for floor and walls - but since I have no experience - not sure if this won't make the room feel too clean, like in "a hospital kind of clean" ...

    We started looking at some ready designs and maybe a tad dark flooring works awesome with very white-ish furniture (except for the dining table maybe)...

    The kitchen elements we feel should be really in the white-range and be as reflective as possible to aid in the feeling of a bigger room.

    Window placement is not final per se but we do not have that many options as we also have some load bearing walls ... I would have wanted a window from the top left room towards the kitchen/dining area ... alas can't do.

    The windows/additional 2 walls are still an ongoing plan and so far the best we came up with :)

    Ceiling height = 2.60m or 8.2Ft without any insulation. However we plan on having some hanging ceilings = 12.5cm for heat insulation and to cover all cables etc. Also calculate some additional floor insulation and the actual floor (laminated tiles afaik).

    So I would use 2.40m as a calculation which would be closer to the real measurements.

    !I am attaching an area view of the surroundings. South is up on this picture. And although there are no trees in front of it right now, I am surely thinking of adding some in the future (some smaller species :D). The Apartment is actually positioned on 3.45meters above 0 ground level.

    !Attached is a visualization of the building (rear side - right building). The front should be more or less the same (look for the farthest right apt).

    As far as Lighting is concerned - we are thinking and have decent access to 60x60cm LED panels - which might replicate windows to some extent here and there - not sure where to place them though. There could be some light hanging over the Sofa, 2 main ceiling chandeliers, LED stripes above the kitchen sets ... not sure where else ...

    The main wardrobe we are aiming at (and found a decent one at IKEA tbh) is 2.34m in height - which should more or less cover the entire wall. Add to it reflective white-ish surfaces to the sliding doors - with potential LED stripes on top and I think this is what we might be looking for i the end.

    I know that older wardrobes are more robust. Everything is like that nowadays ... wife would probably never accept this ye'old solution though ... :D

    A great mattress and bed are surely what we are opting for. We have a squeaky underbead right now where we rent and it's CRAZY! We also think that the bed has to be higher compared to the floor level and have at least 4 big drawers to save space. Also IKEA has a nice backboard (think it's called) with some niches to put stuff. I imagine 2 wall lights (softened somehow) on the bed level if not a tad above. There will be a window right above the bed anyways (the one between the rooms) so there should be nice floor to ceiling drapes as well ...

    I honestly do not know where to add the mirrors ... but I read everywhere that we should add lots of them :D

    The TV is positioned higher so that the young one wont mess with it ... otherwise we have a 42 inch LED TV which we hope on keeping (hope as in "Please, don't break when we move" :D And we can place anywhere we like + the option of a console or some sort of cupboard/table think is always on the line.

    Again what colors/surfaces should be use for this cupboard?

    Colors again ... my wife thought of adding some really bright orange for example in the kitchen/dining room as an accent only to liven up the space. I tend to agree that this might be a viable option. I've read that brown could be rather depressing for a darker room (which it should not be :D).

    The interior windows we think should be matte/frosted - with double windows to block noise. Also curtains should be placed on both sides - should we want the living room dark, or should the kid decide to have the room fully private. Btw our 3 year old still shares a room with us:D

    @annztoo:

    !Attached is the original plan where load bearing walls are visible. The kitchen <> hallway wall can be removed (actually not built at all if we want to). The plumbing could be moved potentially if it provides better room arrangement per se, but the kitchen on top is where the builder originally plans on building it.

    THANKS for the great tips everyone.

    The thought process goes on. (and sorry for butchering the English language here and there: being Bulgarian = not native in English :) )

  • Влади Цветков
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    I didn't know those wardrobes models are called PAX - but know I do :)

    And yeah we do not expect to have a view through those "internal" windows ... just as a light source. The blinds between the glass is an option I will need to investigate further as I hear about it for the first time and might need to look around for suppliers that actually carry such an option ... and acceptable price of course :)

    There are nice textile blinds at IKEA that also act as insulation to a certain extent and those might do the job, although I would insist on curtains as it gives the room a better look overall ... blinds behind them is another story :)

    I actually love the color combo above. Warm, yet white and roomy. So it ticks my comfy and spacious boxes. Will present it to the judge at home (a.k.a. wife) and see how she feels about it as well :) Another thing however is that I won't be having this kitchen isle - which brings in a lot of the wooden material and color. Maybe the dining table in such color (birch for example (although a tad pale)) and white chairs perhaps?

  • User
    5 years ago

    You need to hire a local Interior Designer to help you source materials and put this together.

  • aprilneverends
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    a) your English is great, without exaggeration

    b) you sound very thoughtful and considerate in your choices-usually a very good prediction of success

    c) Reflective white on cabinetry is great for your space, potentially. But. Different surfaces reflect light differently. Matte walls in bright white but low light will never look as advantageous-because they don't have such ability to reflect light as, say, lacquered finish on wood, or Laminate

    Decide what you love more though-cooler, brighter whites(which might be more available with IKEA. i don't know though, here in US IKEA's choices are more limited. Maybe you've access to colors we don't)-or warmer, a bit creamier, or off white or very light greige.

    You won't have problem to put any wood next to it. (okay, I'll add "almost" any wood, since there are always exceptions)

    But you need to know your other preferences. Say it's hard to put bright white laminate and do creamy walls. Walls would look "dirty". It's easier to do range of whites in fabrics and soft furnishings, than to pair bright and muddy in bigger surfaces.

    You can carefully choose a white-ish color that does go well with it though, IF you like it upon seeing it a the room in different time of of a day..or go with other color. Actually one of the brightest, most reflective ones is yellow..but people have very strong reactions to it, from very positive to very "please no!" And of course also needs to be yellow X to play best in light Y. Or else can get very irritating.

    Both blues and greens can be cooler-or warmer.

    Both would work great with orange (which I love as well as I consider it a very happy color)

    (add some purple too)) the possibilities of adding other colors are huge..it all depends on how much of color and constrast one personally likes. usually you start with something and then you add/substract as you go. It's a process..

    Brown is not depressing by itself. Is it depressing in floors, or being part of plants, or clay or wood kitchen accessories, or being a part of embroidery? No of course. It depends what it is, what surface it covers, how much of it you can bear, what your personal associations are (can be you know what, or chocolate..both are brown..)), what colors are next to it..

    Every color can get depressing if one is surrounded by it only, not enough variation or texture. In a room. Outside is different. Nature takes care of variation and texture..humans have to try more in interiors:)

    So. First choose your cabinets, flooring, tiles. then, and only then, choose the paint. When you can check this paint next to it. Take a flashlight with you:) I'm serious. You want to check every color in the evening. We had stumbled upon this amazing cheerful green-we loved it so much-then we come back in the evening, and it's color of pea soup. Pea soup, gone bad. I'd love it evey morning-then come evening I'd hate it. You don't want that. You want to like your color most time under most circumstances

    I imagine very well you share the room now with your three year old. We bought our first place (existing only on paper yet) when my DD was 6 months old. By the time she was three we finally moved in:)

    Your lighting plan seems sound. Don't forget undercabinet lighting!!!!

    Mirrors..

    can go:

    -in the closets' panels(but either cheaper-or more opulent look if done right)

    -in those inner windows? I have no idea whether's done and how much it can cost..

    -in the backsplash. even in form of tiles if one wishes. not sure will be best for your kitchen. but people do that. pretty easy to clean too

    -where you need them(dressing table, entry door, obviously bathrooms..)

    -btw they make colored mirrors too. Very cool. Such mirrors can be very modern. They also make mirrors with pictures on them. Pretty quirky. Tell me if you need links -if yes I'll try to fish them out for you. Can be part of kids' rooms decor, living, etc

    don't do mirrors:

    -where you're dining. Most folks don't like seeing themselves eating. also one should be concentrated on his food and conversation..

    -on the ceiling:)

    -

  • Влади Цветков
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    Some new brains just entered the project and we have decided to alter it a bit :)

    Meaning :

    - The kid's room goes up and can be accessed directly without the need of going through the living room. The total sqm actually goes up a bit to 8.37sqm

    - The hallway is extended but more open (now 5.7sqm)

    - The kitchen/living room is moved near the huge south window now having loads of natural light. . Going to to 14.73sqm

    * Generally almost only positives by the change (except for plumbing changes). And 2.5m2 allocated to the Hallway as opposed to the Kitchen/Living room.

    * Changed the program for visualisation/floor plans as it has more color options for us to test etc :)

    ** We've also opted for 2 sliding doors to save on some internal space.

  • nosoccermom
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Go to www.apartmenttherapy.com and look at decorating advice for small places. There are lots of examples with pictures, e.g under "house tours".

    (Personally, I'm a huge fan of warm white walls.)

  • aprilneverends
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Me too, me too!

    (Had them for years in Israel. But. If the room is dark(which can happen even in sunny Israel-white gets irritating there. One needs to play with it or go darker or do something if one can of course(not a dorm, not a rental, etc)

    Now even I have them myself too, at some parts of the house. More like warm greenish off white. But these are in the lightest parts of the house(I've a pretty dark house). I have another fairly light room-but it was under my DH's pressure that we went so light there..it was supposed to be MIL's, and he freaked out..I had to change all the plans I had for it-and I had such best laid plans..)))

    BTW my previous house was extremely bright and sunny, with very high ceilings in some places, huge windows..if I'd do white I'd go blind there. Would have to wear sunglasses inside. Warm yellow looked nice and soft though.

    There's no one size fits all. Until the actual space is there would be hard to know. One can have a plan-and be ready to tweak it. (Or refuse to tweak it lol)

    Vladi thank you for posting your changes..will take me some time to read the new plan. Hopefull others will chime in too-great amount of talents on Building forum side

    I think it's very cool you're allowed to change plan and plumbing at all, with your builder.

    I also obviously like that a room can be accessible from the hallway rather than being a pass through. Better function for everyone, no doubt

    I used to love AT but they started being too huge, changed their format..one can still enjoy house tours greatly I suppose. I do recommend reading couple books of theirs

    https://www.amazon.com/Apartment-Therapys-Book-Small-Spaces/dp/0307464601

    https://www.amazon.com/Apartment-Therapy-Presents-Hundreds-Solutions/dp/0811859827

    They were very beneficial to me as I got interested in design and decor, as not only they show many cool real spaces and analyze them but also there is extensive list of internet resourses for shopping, with price range and all, in the end of the book. Of course most of these are local to US, but many are not.

    Another good book giving examples of putting rooms together-and why it works

    https://www.amazon.com/Domino-Decorating-Room-Room-Creating/dp/1416575464/ref=pd_rhf_dp_s_cp_02?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=1416575464&pd_rd_r=QPJFTM4Y2F19SRSCPCG5&pd_rd_w=6P6nI&pd_rd_wg=2jxFH&psc=1&refRID=QPJFTM4Y2F19SRSCPCG5

    and lots of cool examples of real life homes

    https://www.amazon.com/Design-Sponge-Home-Grace-Bonney-ebook/dp/B01I0LRHNS/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1525964031&sr=1-4&keywords=Grace+Bonney&dpID=618QmNnpTYL&preST=SX342_QL70&dpSrc=srch

    It could be that you read all these already...in such case I apologize, and am ready to give other names of other books..:)one gets pickier and wants to dive deeper as one reads more and more so it's an endless but fun process

    Влади Цветков thanked aprilneverends