I have been collecting rose campion, parsley, sunset and fancy frills coneflower, large tall deep redish holly hock, and Queeny purple hollyhock seeds, and orange red marigold. Quirkpod - are you coming to the fall swap? Lets trade seeds! I need some for our new school's new butterfly and flower garden that I volunteered to build! (and for my garden :-) REALLY would love poppy seeds!!! Anyone else coming to the fall plant swap? We could pre-arrange seed trades this time... Let me know! Jean Shannon/dirtrx, I will share plants with you for your new garden when you are ready. I dont have a huge collection but have some and am willing to share what I have (cuttings, plants, etc). I have a few salvias that if I am successful rooting, I am willing to share with you in fall or spring, depending on how successful I am, how busy I get this fall, and when you need/want any of them. Assuming they make it through this summer, I have San Carlos, and Argentina sky, Marichino cherry, and black and blue salvia. I am new to these salvias but the hummingbirds are LOVING them and so am I! These should be easy to root, right? (I hope) I have also have natives (ginger, viburnum). I have a new light/med purple butterfly bush that would be easy to root cuttings from also. I have other plants too so we can talk later. Perhaps at the Fall Swap? :-)

Banyan, it depends on which definition of species you are referring to as there are several different definitions. Here are several that are commonly used: "A typological species is a group of organisms in which individuals are members of the species if they sufficiently conform to certain fixed properties. The clusters of variations or phenotypes within specimens (ie: longer and shorter tails) would differentiate the species. This method was used as a "classical" method of determining species, such as with Linnaeus early in evolutionary theory. However, we now know that different phenotypes do not always constitute different species (ie: a 4-winged Drosphila born to a 2-winged mother is not a different species). Species named in this manner are called morphospecies. A morphological species is a population or group of populations that differs morphologically from other populations. For example, we can distinguish between a chicken and a duck because they have different shaped bills and the duck has webbed feet. Species have been defined in this way since well before the beginning of recorded history. This species concept is much criticised because more recent genetic data reveals that genetically distinct populations may look very similar and, contrarily, large morphological differences sometimes exist between very closely-related populations. Nonetheless, most species known have been described solely from morphology. The biological species or isolation species concept identifies a species as a set of actually or potentially interbreeding populations. This is generally the most useful formulation for scientists working with living examples of the higher taxa like mammals, fish, and birds, but meaningless for organisms that do not reproduce sexually. It does not distinguish between the theoretical possibility of interbreeding and the actual likelihood of gene flow between populations and is thus impractical in instances of allopatric (geographically isolated) populations. The results of breeding experiments done in artificial conditions may or may not reflect what would happen if the same organisms encountered each other in the wild, making it difficult to gauge whether or not the results of such experiments are meaningful in reference to natural populations. A mate-recognition species is defined as a group of organisms that are known to recognise one another as potential mates. Like the isolation species concept above, it applies only to organisms that reproduce sexually. Unlike the isolation species concept, it focuses specifically on pre-mating reproductive isolation. A phylogenetic or evolutionary or Darwinian species is a group of organisms that shares an ancestor; a lineage that maintains its integrity with respect to other lineages through both time and space. At some point in the progress of such a group, members may diverge from one another: when such a divergence becomes sufficiently clear, the two populations are regarded as separate species. In practice, these definitions often coincide, and the differences between them are more a matter of emphasis than of outright contradiction. Nevertheless, no species concept yet proposed is entirely objective, or can be applied in all cases without resorting to judgement. Given the complexity of life, some have argued that such an objective definition is in all likelihood impossible, and biologists should settle for the most practical definition. For most vertebrates, this is the biological species concept, and to a lesser extent (or for different purposes) the phylogenetic species concept. Many BSC subspecies are considered species under the PSC; the difference between the BSC and the PSC can be summed up insofar as that the BSC defines a species as a consequence of manifest evolutionary history, while the PSC defines a species as a consequence of manifest evolutionary potential. Thus, a PSC species is "made" as soon as an evolutionary lineage has started to separate, while a BSC species starts to exist only when the lineage separation is complete." I am using the morphological definition because I think that possibly one of the two forms is a hybrid of the other and some other plant. There are just too many instances in which one of the forms is noted as having a fragrance and the other isn't, as well as the color development in one form versus the consistent color in the other. Also there is a vast difference in what the seeds of Vigna caracalla are sold for as opposed to what the seeds of Phaseolous caracalla are sold for and this shows the ease of seed formation in one versus the other. This data seems to indicate that if the two forms are related, that sufficient evidence exists that they would be considered different species.

*Posted by donnad z6 MD (My Page) on Thu, Jun 13, 02 at 22:56 What's your favorite gardening book? What book would you recommend to a gardener moving to this area? Thanks in advance for any replies! *Posted by: drtynails z7 MD (My Page) on Fri, Jun 14, 02 at 11:39 "Gardening for Dummies" series. Very informative and amusing. * Posted by: donnad z6 MD (My Page) on Fri, Jun 14, 02 at 22:37 My favorite book which is currently "Home Landscape: Mid-Atlantic Region" by Roger Holmes. It has several landscape designs you can really use - or in my case adapt. * Posted by: Madgardenr z7WDC (My Page) on Thu, Jun 20, 02 at 21:57 My truly favorite, semi-regional book is "Time-Tested Plants" by Pamela Harper. While she lives a bit south of DC, her book is a wonderful compendium of what has worked for her and what hasn't over many years of gardening in heat and humidity, both of which we have in abundance. I love all her books, but this is my favorite. You might also look at "The Washington Post Garden Book" by Adrian Higgins. * Posted by: Julia z7 MD (My Page) on Sat, Jun 22, 02 at 16:18 "Time Tested Plants" is a good one. Just thought you might want to know that the MD Extension Service sells its Maryland Master Gardener Handbook for $49 and has many other short publications for free or for cheap including a new one on natives I just ordered for $5. Most public libraries have a copy of the MGH you can look at in the reference section. Still reading copies of Henry Mitchell's books for inspiration. Of course, Dirr's "Manual of Woody Landscape Plants" is the one reference book you can't live without. * Posted by: VALily (My Page) on Mon, Jun 24, 02 at 23:43 American Horticultural Society "A-Z Encyclopedia of Garden Plants". My all time favorite reference bible! Also really enjoy "Passalong Plants" by Steve Bender and someone else. Great read with loads of good information on Southern, easy to grow plants! * Posted by: razmataz z7 VA (My Page) on Sun, Aug 18, 02 at 13:22 "Sunset Northeastern Garden Book" is my bible & I also like "Gardening with Native Plants of the South" by Sally Wasowski. Moved from CA to Va a couple of years ago & both have been extremely helpful. * Posted by: foxbuild 6b (My Page) on Wed, Aug 28, 02 at 20:52 "Lasagna Gardening". Love it *Posted by Mrsgreenjeans z6/7 SE/PA (My Page) on Fri, Nov 29, 02 at 14:10 Well, it's that time of year again when I start to spend more time indoors than I would like to. With the holidays coming, gardening books are always welcome. I would like to recommend "Month-By-Month GARDENING in PENNSYLVANIA" by Liz Ball. I do wish the chapters went from month to month rather than topic divided month by month, but very informative for our area. Also pertinent to our area, and excellent for information as well as the beautiful inspirational, photography are books by Ken Druse. I have "The Natural Shade Garden" and "Making More Plants", which happened to be one of last years favorite presents received. (thanks Jevon) * Posted by: Blueheron z6 PA (My Page) on Fri, Nov 29, 02 at 21:14 I also like "The Pennsylvania Gardener" by Derek Fell who gardens in Bucks County. * Posted by: jenny_in_SE_PA 6b/7a Sunset 32 (My Page) on Sun, Dec 1, 02 at 15:45 One of the best books that I found last year was the "Sunset Northeast Garden" book (published 2001, Sunset Publishing). It is put out by the folks who do the Sunset Western Gardening Zones/book. I really enjoyed the fact that they described our climate here so well and that I could go through the plant listings and "relate" to and/or find ones that I see growing around here. So many "general" garden enyclopedias list generic plants and cultivars of them that I just don't see planted here or even offered at the local nurseries. They even had a picture of a box turtle in the middle of some hardy geraniums and by golly, I have raised enough of those turtles (found by the creek) when I was little! BTW, the book does include New England down through the Mid-Atlantic states. * Posted by: Mrsgreenjeans z6/7 SE/PA (My Page) on Sat, Jan 11, 03 at 9:35 Well, my son picked a winner of book for me this Christmas; "Gardens of Philadelphia and the Delaware Valley" by William Klein, Jr. and georgeous photos by Derek Fell. It has detailed chapters ranging from Private gardens to public parks, preserves, history. Several of the locations described are near and dear to me, several will be "must sees" this year. *Posted by jgwoodard z6 TN (My Page) on Fri, Jan 17, 03 at 17:28 I mainly care about herbaceous perennials, but ironically, my favorite book is: Reunion of Trees: The Discovery of Exotic Plants & Their Introduction into North American & European Landscapes - by Stephen A. Spongberg. I like it so much that I made a visit to the Arnold Arboretum before I finished it. I am now reading a related work: The Plants that Shaped our Gardens - by David Stuart. Both of them deal with plant history, geography, and logistics....sort of in the "plant hunter" genre. They are both published by Harvard University Press and easily obtainable. As far as botanical reference stuff, I mainly rely on Allan Armitage's books, (particularly: Herbaceous perennial plants : a treatise on their identification, culture, and garden attributes) because of its applicability to my climate here in middle Tennessee, although I use a great variety for specific purposes.....just wondering what you folks like. * Posted by: Bill_zone6 W. Pa (My Page) on Fri, Jan 17, 03 at 17:47 Manual of "Herbaceous Ornamental Plants" by Steven M. Still is what I refer to a lot. * Posted by: TamaraVa z7bVa (My Page) on Sat, Jan 18, 03 at 21:01 I have this HUGE Botanica book that I refer to whenever I think of adding a new plant to my garden. It has an amazing listing for thousands of perennials, shrubs and trees. It has saved me a few times from making costly mistakes. I picked it up at the bargain bin at Barnes and Noble.The last few years I have really enjoyed "Garden writing". I love to read and re-read Henry Mitchell ,for instance, he makes me chuckle.It's as if he is looking over my fence commenting on a day in a gardeners life. I feel I learn much more from gardeners stories than from how to books. I just finished Diane Ackerman's book "Cultivating Delight, A Natural History of My Garden" Fantastic reading. * Posted by: nasj z4/5 and z7 NY (My Page) on Thu, Jan 23, 03 at 12:10 Allen Lacy: Gardening with Groundcovers and Vines, and The Garden in Autumn. * Posted by: booboo1410 (My Page) on Mon, Jan 27, 03 at 18:02 I enjoy reference books best rather than "reading books", my faves are: "The American Horticultural Society A-Z Encyclopedia of Garden Plants" by Christopher Brickell, Judith Zuk (DK Publishing) "Botanica" by R. G. Turner, Jr. (Barnes & Noble - the name on this book has recently been changed!!) These two cover perennials, trees and shrubs. I also have specific books on a particular genus, but these 2 generally give enough info. to get what you need. For herbs, I recommend: "The Herb Society of America Encyclopedia of Herbs & Their Uses" by Deni Brown (DK Publishing) * Posted by: VTSKIERS z6a CT (My Page) on Mon, Jan 27, 03 at 19:28 Well it used to be "The Well Tended Perennial Garden" by Tracy DiSabato-Aust but I just received my copy of her new book, "The Well Designed Mixed Garden" and my initial impression is that this one will far exceed my expectations. If you don't have it, get it. * Posted by: Lilac5 5A (My Page) on Mon, Jan 27, 03 at 21:36 The 20-Minute Gardener by Tom Christopher and Marty "Something". Lots of fun, good ideas, and a nicely irreverent attitude. * Posted by: Iris_gal z9 CA (My Page) on Tue, Jan 28, 03 at 3:30 ?Perrenials For American Gardens? by Ruth R. Clausen & N.H. Ekstrom is one book that combines photos with accurate information. A treasure. * Posted by: buxusareyou z6 NC (My Page) on Tue, Jan 28, 03 at 7:29 Southern Gardens - A Handbook for the Middle South by Elizabeth Lawrence * Posted by: CarrieB z6b/7a Phila. (My Page) on Tue, Jan 28, 03 at 10:02 buxusareyou, have you read Two Gardeners . Letters between Katherine White (EB's wife, and a gardener & garden writer) and Elizabeth Lawrence? I just got it out of the library. Lovely. * Posted by: Avid Z5IL (My Page) on Sun, Mar 2, 03 at 12:53 Allen Armitage - Herbaceous Perennial Plants, Clausen/Ekstrom - Perennials for American Gardens, Fred McGourty - The Perennial Gardener, Although I admit I don't seek out new books that much and these are a few years old, I always enjoy them. Armitage and McGourty are also funny guys. * Posted by: ChrisMD 7 (My Page) on Sun, Mar 2, 03 at 13:57 All time favorites are Henry Mitchell's four books. He was the local Washington Post garden writer here in DC so I've been reading his columns since forever. He died several years ago and I still miss him and I've been told the same by many local gardeners. Other favorites: "Gardening for Love" by Elizabeth Lawrence "Washington's Gardens at Mount Vernon" by Mac Griswold "The Medieval Garden" by Sylvia Landsburg. I was so smitten with this book that I paid big buck$$$ for it at the Cluny Museum in Paris, thinking I would never see it again. It is remaindered now and you can get it for about $7 if you look for it. Very useful for plant lists. Roger Phillips and Martyn Rix's series for Random House. It is really useful to see 20 clematis cultivars (or whatever) laid out on one page for photography so that you can make direct comparisons. Also, since the series originates in England, there are a LOT of plants that are very rare for us Americans. "Naturalizing Bulbs" by Rob Proctor. An excellent book and unique when it was published. "Gardening with Groundcovers and Vines" by Allen Lacy. Full of great ideas for layering plantings. I like Lacy's other writings too, but since he spent a lot of time on cultivars, they're beginning to look dated. Eleanor Perenyi's sole book - can't remember the title but it has recently been reissued. A collection of tiny elegant essays on all aspects of gardening. "French Dirt" by Richard Goodman. A vicarious vacation. Heronswood Nursery catalogs - excellent if quirky reference books. * Posted by: superphosphate 5a, NH (My Page) on Tue, Mar 4, 03 at 0:20 "The New Generation Guide 'WILD FLOWERS of Britain and Northern Europe' " by Alastair Fitter, general editor, David Attenborough. University of Texas Press, 1987. ISBN 0-292-75535-X . A few wildflowers (and weeds by American standards) have not crossed the Atlantic. About half the book an enthusiastic and very readable detailed treatise over the whole landscape of botany. Charmingly British. If this is not in print now, it ought to be. * Posted by: buxusareyou z6 NC (My Page) on Tue, Mar 4, 03 at 12:47 ChrisMD - I loved French Dirt, too. What a delightful story about the birth of a gardener. Russell Page's, The Education of a Gardener was an inspiration. * Posted by: back40jen 5 (My Page) on Tue, Mar 4, 03 at 14:18 I highly recommend "People with Dirty Hands" by Robin Chotzinoff, especially for those of us trying to distract ourselves from the long, dreary winter. The book has profiles/interviews with passionate, eccentric gardeners and is just plain fun to read. I agree with the poster that likes the 20 minute Gardener, I like that too, especially the sense of humor, rare in gardening books. * Posted by: Gazania z5PA (My Page) on Tue, Mar 4, 03 at 16:33 I own or have read nearly all the books mentioned here. All are good books, but the one I most often turn to is the Sunset Northeastern Garden Book. I think that many of the people on this forum are new to gardening and will look in on this thread hoping for a guide to good basic information on many aspects of gardening. The Sunset Books cover it all in an easy to navigate format. From annuals to vegetables and everything in between. It not only tells you what is desireable about a specific plant, but also what kinds of problems that plant is susceptible to. It lists detailed information of many species. For instance there are 42 named varieties of magnolia listed giving characteristics of each. Whether you know it as catnip, catmint or nepeta, you will be able to find it. For the novice gardener, this is the perfect book for learning, and for the well seasoned gardener, a quick reference. I would like to see more credit given to Sunset for putting together these invaulable garden books. It seems that the "professional" plant people look down their noses at Sunset. At $30.00 it is a good buy, and you can find it online much cheeper. * Posted by: Shelley_R 7b NC (My Page) on Sun, Mar 16, 03 at 6:42 Made for the Shade, by Judy Glattstein. This book is much more than a listing of shade plants. It discusses the different types of shade, solutions to specific shade problems, all types of plants, and more. It's well-organized and has beautiful photos. Really both a reading and reference book. If you garden in the shade, get this book. I also find myself frequently referring to Don Hastings' Month-By-Month Gardening in the South. It inlcudes all types of plants and has info and instructions on all basic gardening activities (planting a tree, pruning a rose, renovating a lawn, etc). This is my number one choice for a beginner book for anyone gardening in the South. * Posted by: Storygardener 5/6 central oh (My Page) on Sun, Mar 16, 03 at 7:06 One book that I particularly like is "The Well Tended Garden" by Tracy DiSabato-Aust. Traci lives in the Greater Columbus, Ohio area too...so for me and other gardeners of this similar climate the book is invaluable. So many tips on general care, pruning for longest and most interesting blooms of many plants, and wonderful ideas. I learned about his book at this forum about 3-4 years ago. It is very very worthwhile! * Posted by: PaulaCat Z8 Coastal SC ) on Fri, Mar 28, 03 at 12:58 "Passalong Plants" by Steve Bender and Felder Rushing. While it deals with "classic" southern plants, it's really about the first great joy of gardening...sharing your treasures with others and remembering those who shared with you. * Posted by: flower_fairy z6a MA (My Page) on Fri, Mar 28, 03 at 17:21 Second Nature: A Gardener's Education by Michael Pollan is wonderful reading.

Everything gdpossehl said! Plus, I'm in your same area and have the same soil! The original homeowner planted English Ivy and we're breaking our backs getting rid of it! Resist the temptation!! This year, we've had TONS of wild, native violets coming up and I've even been pulling them from the gravel driveway and transplanting them into spots where we've eradicated the ivy. They're a wonderful, native groundcover and look beautiful in garden beds too! I'm big into using natives, so my suggestions will show that. Try Maypop (passion flower vine) along the fence. It grows very quickly, has phenomenal flowers and is evergreen. You can cut it all the way back each year to keep it neat, but no need to. Moss will NOT work with a dog. We have a moss yard and it's super super delicate! The deer tear it up super easily and it gets invaded by weeds that have to be hand-removed (except in the deepest shade like under the canopy of a Japanese maple....the moss looks awesome there!). I definitely think you could do some semi-raised (even just mounded for a more natural look) beds around the edges/corners. Then you could have beautiful native bushes (itea, clethra, viburnum, etc.) grouped with ferns and other shade-lovers. I've found that it's no use to fight the clay! Remember that clay soil has a ton of nutrients! It's just a bit dense for many plants. But not all! There are tons of plants that are clay tolerant. I think your biggest problem is that that soil looks hard-packed. You'll need to loosen it up where you want to plant. I would just dig down a bit and amend with compost and peat. That does the trick for me. Though this nursery doesn't sell to the public, check their site for an amazing assortment of native plants! www.northcreeknurseries.com . You can then check with local nurseries for ones you want, or check online. Good luck!