Hi Sharon,

I have two of the tiniest (1 inch) flowers on Mme A from Chamblees. I purchased a big fully leafed and branched plant in a 3 gal pot from Chamblees (drove to Tyler) late last fall. The plant was extremely healthy when I got it, but now is sickly with something I don’t recognize (not mildew, BS, RMV or RRD). I’m interested in hearing other’s results, too.

I also got a plants of Tupelo Honey ,Summer Romance, Kosmos, Beverly, Savannah and Soul Sister from Chamblees. Summer Romance is also producing very sparse 1” blooms, but the plant is big and healthy. No blooms or buds on Tupelo Honey. Soul Sister, Kosmos, Beverly and Savannah have been blooming well. I purchased Mme A, Tupelo, SR as clearance roses...super healthy, big 3 gal plants, but I do believe they were clearance for good reason. Chamblees also told me that Kordes instructed them not to sell these roses anymore for performance reasons. Again , Soul Sister,Beverly, Savannah and Kosmos, the ones not retracted by Kordes, are the ones doing very well.

thanks Ben. I hope you don't have RRD!!! Such a devastating disease! But at least you know your Chamblee's will flower. I have some coming from RU in a couple of weeks. Hope these will flower. I have two from Chamblee's on their third spring. They are very healthy but just leafing out so too soon to tell if they'll flower this year.

sharon

Mine from 2015 is huge and healthy and is setting buds. Will post when they bloom.

Totoro- so good to know that they're not duds after all, just need a little patience. Can't wait to see the pics :-)
sharon

Sharon,

My Madame Anisette came from Chamblee's in 2016. It never bloomed, but grew tall and well, but started declining, then suddenly dropped its foliage, the canes stayed green. I shovel pruned it at that point, in 2016.

Now, Texas Ben has stated Kordes told Chamblee's not to continue selling it, "for performance reasons".

What does PERFORMANCE REASONS mean?

I wonder if Chris from the defunct New Flora has any comments on this bit of news?

Some of you may recall a post from last year on Madame Anisette in which Chris berated me for my report on my MA in that post, the one that I had purchased in 2016.

I wonder also, if at the time of last year's (2017), lengthy post on MA, that Chris knew then of the PERFORMANCE issues Kordes reported to Chamblee's that MA has?

Moses

Moses- I'll see how she does this year. They are super healthy and growing nicely. I ordered some from RU too. It's such a gorgeous rose when it flowers. I'll let her stay for now.

sharon

I own Mdme. Anisette but it did take 2 years to really establish on LI. We had tremendous winter damage on canes this spring so it is now about 2’ high & leafing out.

jazzmom- thanks for the update. Mine had no winter damage and is leafing out nicely. No evidence of buds yet but it's still too soon here. But great growth and super healthy foliage.

sharon

A friend wrote me an email telling me about this post. Moses, I hope she and I are wrong about the seemingly angry, combative post you have here. Maybe we are just reading it wrong?

First it was not Kordes who called Chamblee - it was me. I called Chamblee and also those selling this variety budded on fortuniana warning that there seemed to be problems and suggesting perhaps it would be best to stop propagating until we understand what is going on. I did this because of not wanting customers to be unhappy. In the meantime we tried to understand what was going on. At the same time as this problem was happening I was seeing MA blooming like crazy in our trial fields as it had for 8 years (both own root and budded). I had been to the production fields in Arizona and saw 20,000 MA blooming and looking good. Add that to the fact MA had just won an ADR. It was hard to believe it had a problem. It is still sold in Europe and is quite popular. Sorry Moses I don't think there anything wrong with this variety.

So what do I think? Many mail order companies sell very young plants in small pots which makes it affordable to ship by mail. These plants are very young and in need of successive cutbacks in the first year of growing which is how all roses are treated in commercial growing operations. In other words sacrificing blooms for plant habit in the first year of production. I think the typical buyer of these mail order plants are wanting to see buds and don't want to do this type of plant shaping. Some roses will still perform by giving blooms in the first year, but Madame Anisette is not one of these roses. I also think that not giving it those essential cut backs means a very tall narrow plant - a very unattractive look. I can name a few more varieties that require attention to plant form in the first year. I also wonder about nitrogen fertilizer and whether excessive use if fertilizer might contribute to these tall roses that are not blooming. It is my guess of what is happening since I see it blooming quite well in many places.

Chamblee was not a fault and their stock came from the same place as the field roses I was seeing in Arizona performing so well. Chamblee has not resumed selling MA and I can understand why. It does not fit into their style of production. There are quite a few Kordes they have chosen not to grow for various reasons and I think this is perfectly acceptable.

I have to say reading this post and the thread just below it about Madame Anisette was somewhat humorous. The other post is filled with beautiful photos of MA in bloom. Moses if you have not seen this other post take a look. There are some very happy growers of MA.

We and are customers are so disappointed to hear that Newflora is defunct. Someone forgot to tell us. :)

Lastly Moses saying I knew that there were performance issues and I did nothing is both insulting and inaccurate. I don't think there is anyone who posts more about wanting ADR designations on roses more than you do and this is a rose that won an ADR and many more awards. Maybe you should have given it a bit more time or maybe it just did not work in your location. We will never know.

Chris, thank you for your gracious and patient response. I really appreciate someone "in the field" being able to give in-put on a public gardening forum, braving those of the public itself.

I have ordered Mme. Anisette for delivery this year (own-root )from Roses Unlimited and look forward to seeing how it performs here in the northern tier of states (Michigan). There is a very interesting dichotomy of results in growing this rose and I'm sure it must simply boil down to: location, location, Location! I feel it unfair to judge a rose as a dud nation-wide.

Why, just consider all the California, England, South of France, greenhouse, or any other mild climate raised hybrid teas/roses raised from mild climate genes (China and Gigantea) that are truly dismal performers here because of harsh winter cold and roller coaster temperatures. For MY location, most HT's are inappropriate, but I acknowledge that it's just the effect of where I live.

I certainly wouldn't call Mutabilis a dud rose just because I can't get it above 2.5 feet or to come through more than two winters because I have seen how magnificent it can be WHERE it's happiest. Unfortunately, sometimes we as humans can feel slighted. Even by a rose because we feel we've put so much of our selves and our hopes into them, and others' glowing reports can make us feel it's personally our fault even when nothing is further from the truth.

Stick with what works, and always be young enough at heart to try something new and not obsess over a rose that does not please us.

Happy gardening!

With Mme Anisette on the way,

Steven

Chris,

If you read my post accurately, or understood what I wrote, you would know that I questioned IF you knew of a problem with MA, not as you stated above, that I SAID you knew. There is a difference.

I do not want to engage you in a confrontation. I just "smell something fishy," concerning MA, and will leave it at that.

Moses

The point is there was nothing "fishy" and I have put numerous posts on MA outlining what I knew about MA in the past which I do believe you read as you responded to them. Seems like beating a dead horse to me too. But since you brought it up I have responded again. So now you know and you can give the idea we were not being forthcoming or hiding information a rest.

I saw Madame Anisette at my local Lowe’s store last spring, but didn’t purchase one. I truly regret it now. I look every time I go there, but no more MA’s to be found. After seeing how gorgeous Cori Ann’s are, and hearing how well MA does in hot dry temperatures, I’m kicking myself for not buying one of those big plants when I had the opportunity. I know MA does incredibly well for Cori Ann. Her photos are amazing! My climate is similar, so I assume MA would do well here too. Has Lowe’s stopped carrying Madame Anisette? Lisa

The blooms are so beautiful that I am willing to wait. Or I will move it if needs more sun as mine is not in the best sun. It certainly is very disease resistant, cold Hardy and vigorous. I don't mind it behaving like a climber either.

Newflora Chris Pellett, was kind enough to address me via here or e mail about the finickiness of MA in terms of establishment. After 2 transplants (from in front of a chimney to inside a rose garden). MA performed well for me in year 2 in a southern vs. previous western exposure. I have cut it back from 4’ to about 2’ due to the extreme winter damage encountered in the NE this April. It is putting out new growth. I’m sad that Newflora closed down as the details on each rose were excellent. Star Roses is now the USA licensed distributor now of Kordes roses. Don’t ask me the legalities, but Star now has that distribution. It’s possible we may see more commercial availability to homeowners now who shop at Home Depot/Lowe’s & Walmart of Kordes roses. Us rose snobs who can afford shopping on the internet, may now be able to find a particular Kordes Rose now at these places.

Chris, is it possible to leave your thumbnail descriptions up on your site or are you legally not allowed to do so? I’m going to be 62 & I hear ya about wanting to travel & do more things. Unfortunately, my husband became disabled so he had to retire from his job & any traveling we do requires a lot of preparation. Working in my garden keeps me somewhat sane!

Chris- thank you so much for your detailed response. In your opinion we should be using low nitrogen fertilizer for the first couple of years? I have used Rose-tone which in 4-3-2. The lack of potassium is concerning. Tomato-tone is 3-4-6 so it seems a better balanced fertilizer for roses.

My Kordes Chamblee Roses I ordered this year are huge, especially Fire Opal, and well branched. Should I still cut them back? I like to see at least one flower to make sure that the correct rose was sent. I saved your "pinching" post from a while back for reference on how this is done.

Madame Anisette is one of my healthiest roses. Going on her third year with no disease and little winter dieback. 'Honeymoon Arbor' is similar. This was a tough winter this year but all of my Kordes roses came through, some a bit worse for the wear, except my yellows. All are own root. Some were tiny bands planted last summer. None are in ideal settings since the most sun they get in the best location is 5 1/2 hours. Cori Ann is blessed with seemingly ideal growing conditions. I would never expect the same performance of my roses with their abbreviated growing season, most not flowering until early July, but am thrilled with the amount of flowers I get.

I do lots of research thanks to Gardenweb and HMF, trying to find roses best suited to my particular growing conditions. The roses that struggle for me are the yellows, just not winter hardy here. But any yellow rose is iffy here, be they 'Knockouts', 'Easy Elegance', 'David Austin' or others so I know I'm gambling any time I buy a yellow rose and thrilled if it proves winter hardy, or disease resistant or not a feast for Japanese beetles, or thrips or rose midge or grasshoppers or...As MIgreenthumb Steven says it's location, location, location!

sharon

jazzmom I am so sorry to hear about your husbands struggle with health. I know what you mean about the preparations for travel. We traveled 35 years ago with a large oxygen making machine for me in Europe. I am now amazed that we did this but I guess I just was not going to not go on that trip. Luckily things are so much simpler now.

No I cannot post the old website now as it belongs to Star Roses. I did send them the complete file for the website so maybe,,,

Yes Sharon you are right about yellows and hardiness being more challenging. We did have good results with Lemon Fizz and Winter Sun did well in our cold trials. i also had reports of Karl Ploberger being very good in colder climates.

I am sort of simple on fertilizer for my home garden. i use slow release granules early spring and again in late June. The ones I use are balanced and also have the micro nutrients included in the formulation. When I see overly aggressive rose growth and I do have those in my garden then I do think of lowering the nutrition to see how these roses react. The other is to prune the variety hard the coming year to force more basal shoots. My theory is that the rose may not grow as tall if it has to supply energy to more canes. Case in point is Poseidon which can be a tall grower. which I have controlled the growth by hard pruning and my 10 year old plant now has 10 basal canes and the height is now about 3.5'. I have not hard pruned it in quite a few years. I think the joy in growing plants is that each rose (or other plant) is different and i just look for the way to work with it that best expresses what I want from that plant. That said sometimes the plant just is not going to work in my garden. I am a gardener who ejoys process more than the results so I never have the perfect looking garden but I am having lots of fun.

thanks Chris for your quick response. Gardening should be fun and it's always an adventure. I don't think I've ever done so much research in my life. But it's great when the research translates to results.

I pruned my Poseidon per your post a while back and it does have a more bushy shape. It's also one of my hardier roses. Winter does prune some of my roses too between cold damage and cane breakage from heavy snow. I haven't tried the mulch tip yet to see if I can stimulate more cane development. That's another tip worth investigating.

I'll have to check out Karl Ploberger. I love yellow roses so would like to have some in my garden. I know Peter Kukielski recommended it in his book on roses. Very few vendors for this one though.

sharon

Rather than chop back Mdme Anisette, could the long canes be wrapped around an obelisk? I know some on here are having good results with pegging/pulling, even if it takes a bit longer for the plant to start really producing flowers.

I don't know about an obelisk and MA. It has a pretty stiff, strong cane. Are you growing it in shade? Perhaps someone else has some experience? I do know that cutting back canes in spring and summer will guarantee a delay in blooming. When I talk about hard pruning I am suggesting it be done in late winter early spring. I will only lightly prune roses in summer so as to encourage new growth and blooms.

I'm not growing it (yet), just considering. Stiff canes most likely make it a no-go for an obelisk, but maybe a trellis is still an option if the canes are pulled early enough.

Some years, like this one, there is no early spring to prune - Old Man Winter didn't reliably leave until almost late spring! Nothing to be done about that though. As long as it blooms sometime it'd be fine on a year like this!

Thanks, Chris for your kind words. I am a Chris as well. Anyway, Lemon Fizz was one of the roses several years ago our Extension site was trialing for Earth Kind designation for Texas A & M. I remember many of the Master Gardeners liking that rose. The Extension’s Demo rose garden has Poseidon & it is a big rose situated on one of the corner inner berms. Everyone loves its color & fragrance. I didn’t want a big rose in my own garden, so I went with Plum Perfect, another fragrant lavender Kordes rose. I do agree with Chris about the canes of MA being not as pliable to go around an obelisk. I have an open 3 sided obelisk and I put a clematis called ‘Betty Corning’ in the center of it. It has pale blue/white bell shaped flowers, is disease resistant & in my garden it dies to the ground & re-emerges every spring to grace the 3 poles on the interior. At the Extension’s garden it is paired with a climber called Jasmina, another Kordes rose. There it reaches the top of that arbor every year. We lightly prune it in that particular garden area & it doesn’t die to the ground like at my home. In case anyone is wondering, both gardens mentioned are mulched with wood chips/cedar mulch is for my rose garden.

My MA canes are very flexible and long. Mine is in part shade though. I am experimenting with letting one cane be nearly horizontal touching the ground and one cane on the fence/trellis.

totoro- My MA has flexible canes too but she's very young so her canes are also thin. My roses tend to never get those thick canes, pencil thick even, since our growing season is so short here. I have an own root Griffith Buck rose 'Folksinger' that's about 15 years old and still has thin canes. The only roses I had that got really huge were 'Darlow's Enigma' and rugosa 'Polareis'.

Enchanted, how hardy are MA's thinner canes for you? I know the general consensus is older, thicker canes have better hardiness. I've got plenty of part-shade in my yard, so I might need a (small) support.

ac91-My MA's had very little winter dieback if any at all. The longest canes were probably about 3 feet and we had a cold winter with some night temps near 15 below this winter. MA and Kordes Honeymoon Arbor are probably my hardiest Kordes roses. Earth Angel and Poseidon are also pretty hardy but did have some winter dieback.

sharon

Thanks Sharon! I've got 'Honeymoon' on order, so it's good to know it should be fine in the north bed. I've got 'Poseidon' coming from Chamblee's, but I want it to stay smaller. It sounds like MA will end up getting a test run in my yard next year!

ac19- My Poseidon is small. It gets to maybe 2 feet. All of these roses are still young plants. All were bought as own root but doing well. Poseidon suffered less damage this year in spite of this being a colder winter. So it appears she's toughening up. She's probably 18 inches tall right now and putting out nice healthy growth. Even though stated to be fragrant mine has a very faint scent but some posters say that scent can increase as the plant gets older. The flowers are an interesting grayed lavender and nicely ruffled. They tend to brown a bit in the wicked heat of summer though. Honeymoon is a consistent bloomer for me, probably three flushes from July- October even in my shady yard conditions. I'm so impressed with her that I have 5 in various spots in my garden. Now if only she had scent...

sharon

Woo-hoo. Even the partially shaded vertical growth behind the Japanese maple is starting to set buds too!

that's great totoro. Thanks for the update.None of my roses are anywhere near to setting buds yet but are growing nicely. But I'm hoping that I'll get buds too.

sharon