Here are the inspiration for my cabinet doors - they are Shaker but with applied relatively thin molding so they are a bit more "designed" than a standard Shaker style so more visual stuff going on.

And here is a cabinet which was labeled rift sawn

Sure she wants you to use rift sawn since it's more expensive than quarter sawn! Your vision is the correct one.

Fori:

"Usually there is a bit of both in a large project--you just don't want it to be uniformly placed into certain duties. Chispa's example looks like a healthy combo."

I'm not sure I understand this comment as the example Chispa posted seems to have cabinets that are all quarter sawn ink.

You're right--it's not rift sawn exactly.

It's just the variation in quartersawn makes some of it look pretty straight. It's not all going to have that perfect super chatoyant flecky goodness.

Ordering two different kinds of wood is pointless, because even if you order all quarter sawn oak, every piece of wood will not have the iridescent rays/flecks that quarter sawn is known for. In a bundle of raw quarter sawn oak, only about half of the pieces will have rays. One or two pieces with rays, maybe three, in a five piece door is about all you’ll get. Rift sawn will have none. Pieces of quarter sawn oak with no “rays” will look identical to rift sawn. The picture chispa posted illustrates this perfectly, because it shows some pieces with rays and some without, just as I would expect from a quarter sawn kitchen. The kitchen you posted several pictures of as inspiration seems to have a higher percentage of pieces with rays, and that could mean it was cherry picked by the cabinet maker, since the rays are the desirable feature in quarter sawn.

I am surprised your designer suggested what they did.

Your prairie style applied molding will add more of a busy affect than the iridescent flecks in Quarter sawn oak. But a kitchen in your chosen style is supposed to be warm and “busy”, not sleek and sterile. What I might avoid if I was you is a countertop stone with a lot of movement.

Eta- posted at the same time as fori. She said what I said much more clearly:)

Fiori - Thanks. This is all getting very confusing for me since I have examined enlargements of the quarter sawn cabinets and they also appear to have variations in which some of the grain is quieter and some has what you call flecky goodness - not sure what chatoyant is but I am chalking that up to autocorrect :-)

I am having door samples made up of the two variations so maybe that will give me a better sense. I am having a LOT of wood - i.e. paneled DW, refrigerator and hood - not sure that makes it more or less "busy" - or as they say in Yiddish - oongapatchnick :-)

There are copper design elements - copper apron sink and copper coved ceiling - just throwing that into the equation.

Visual imagination is not my strong suit and so I feel uneasy about checking myself out against designer's orders so to speak. So far I have been completely on board with her interpretations of my inspirations so it concerns me since she is the visual expert.

nancyjwb - The counter is going to be Black Galaxy which I think has almost no movement. The copper flecks will pick up the copper accents in my kitchen but I think it's a pretty quiet choice with no a lot of variation or movement.

Is the kd using a custom cabinet company or a custom cabinet builder ie?

if it is a company vs an individual, perhaps there is no choice of rift and quarter sawn vs all quarter sawn. Is pure quarter sawn cabinetry even available in the company she is working with and does the kd want to make sure up front what the customer expectations are?

example...let’s say the kd is working with Wood Mode. Here is one of their “qs” white oak doors from their website. Would the customer argue that some of the wood on here is rift sawn? Hmmm. As a kd...I would want to be careful what I was selling and what my customer’s expectations were. Wood mode calls this qs. Would the customer agree if the customer wants qs?

is it all very subjective?

It’s completely custom from a local cabinet maker so I can have any wood or combination or stain I want.

From Merriam Webster

Definition of chatoyant

: having a changeable luster or color with an undulating narrow band of white light

• a chatoyant gem

Your inspiration with the applied molding is using plain sawn with a dark stain, and selecting for the more rift looking pieces, and selecting out the most cathedral expressions.

That applied molding detail is superfluous to the beauty of quarter or rift dawn wood. It gilds the lily.

I agree with Sophie.

As you may remember, I have quarter sawn white oak cabinets, I looked at mine this morning and it’s all quarter sawn, although they used the less-flecked pieces for the narrow pieces. I wouldn’t worry about it looking too busy. Have you seen any samples of their work or even photos in a portfolio to get a better visual?

On another note, we seem to be style twins, I chose Black Galaxy remnants for a dry bar and also master bath. It’s a great choice to complement a copper sink. It’s as tough as nails- so durable, doesn’t take sealer, so be sure your fabricator doesn’t try to seal it!

Its definitely not a busy, high-movement Granite so I don’t think it will compete with your oak grain. It’s more of a subtle bling, reads black at first glance but when lights hits it a certain way, the little flecks really light up. I’d be sure to pick my slabs as some has more copper than others. In this photo the copper flecks aren’t really showing but it’s definitely in there. Just to avoid confusion- this bath picture is regular wide-grain oak vanity, not the QSO of my kitchen.

it shows more in this install photo, ignore the scribble where I blanked out my name :)

OneRidgeOff: Thanks. I deliberately chose the Black Galaxy because it's not a busy granite but it's got bling so it isn't boring. My kitchen is always somewhat dark because it's at the end of my unit furthest from the wall of windows and semi-shrouded so I always need artificial light and the artificial light really picks up the flecks. If you have pictures of your cabinet doors, I would love to see them.

When I look at closeups of quarter sawn cabinets, there does seem to be some amount of quiet wood and as posted above, perhaps the chatoyant pieces are interspersed in normal cabinetry versus being 100% in more expensive furniture. I am attaching a picture of a quarter sawn curio cabinet I reluctantly had to part with to make room for my new remodel :-( And thank you cluelessincolorado for a fabulous new word :-)

I am going this morning to see his most current work and he is going to be making a sample door in both the quarter sawn with rift panels and vice versa. I also am calling the company that had my inspiration kitchen cabinets on their website to discuss what wood species they used.

At least I have settled on the stain color for WHATEVER wood I wind up with as my designer and I went to the unit I am storing all my stuff in and I pointed to a chair and said that's the color - so she's taking it to the cabinet maker so he can work from the wood and not a photo which might not be exactly the same on his monitor.

Epitome of quarter sawn oak - very chatoyant :-)

I’m not at home today but will try to get you some cabinet pictures hopefully tomorrow. Never did actual reveal photos yet as I stalled out on decisions with the final decision, Wall paint. But got that sorted and painted now.

Good choice, finding your stain color in the real world, to show the cabinet maker, I did something similar and got the results I wanted.

I haven’t looked it up to confirm, but I suspect new growth oak will not have quite the same complex and striking grain as old growth. Some of those Victorian pieces like your curio are quite something - either like it or you don’t, right? I’m obsessed with this piano at a local tea shop, I don’t ever see this busyness in modern cabinetry.

This is a section of the top of the corner table between my couch and loveseat (yes, ouch, a loveseat). It isn't as red as it looks in this photo. It's had cats racing across it and it's been touched up with a stain pen. I love it to death.

That piano is gorgeous and completely unique. I wonder if it was special ordered back in the day because I have never seen anything remotely like it.

I had a site visit with my designer to inspect cabinets for condos she is doing for other people - I am definitely the poor relation as these were multi-million dollar units - one in Century City and one on the Wilshire Corridor :-)

The cabinets being installed were gorgeous although not the style I am going for but the quality is what I was interested in as well as the installation. The unit on the Wilshire Corridor had flip up cabinets which opened by pressing them and closed by pushing a hidden button :-)

I did get to see a lot of wood which was white oak centers regular with rift sawn framing the center panel and they looked great so I think I will go with the quarter sawn in the center panel and rift paneling on the framing and the applied moldings. So that is done and I can move forward and agonize about other design decisions like not being able to justify the cost of upholstering my sofa and chair in mohair :-(

I would not do the black countertops in a kitchen with this much wood and a copper ceiling. It will make your kitchen VERY dark. I would stick with either a white quartz or Corian countertop to lighten the look.

I'm very comfortable with my design decisions. Most of the time I would not be in my kitchen during the day so what difference does it make as I will always be relying on artificial light anyway as would most people when the sun isn't shining however bright their kitchen theoretically is during the day.

Ok Anglo we all know you are the biggest fan of plastic white Corian but that would look terrible with Helen’s other choices. Nothing wrong with preferring darker counters. I love mine.

Addendum: after living with dark counters and backsplash for a few months- don’t skimp on overhead and under counter lighting. I have 22 can lights (30 foot long kitchen) but they are both dimmable and tunable LEDs. I have mine automated to about 4500k task lighting for working hours of the day, and soft 2700k in the after dinner hours. On sunny days I have east and west exposure and don’t need lighting. This is about a third of the overheads on- I can bring it to operating room brightness at full capacity ;)

2700 k

Maximum-6500k

-If I was in your position I'd go and talk to the cabinetmaker. Ask if you can see his wood stash of qs boards. See how he responds to some of your favorite examples. You're relying on his artistry. Red oak is also available quartersawn.

I'm not worried about light - I'll have lighting under the cabinets; recessed can lighting and also uplights in the soffit to highlight the coved copper ceiling.

OneRIdgeOff - Is that granite Black Galaxy? It is gorgeous but looks more like a Laboradite as it appears to have some blue - at least on my monitor.

All of my inspiration kitchens had a medium stained wood cabinet with a dark counter. Traditionally a lot of the authentic period kitchens might have used soapstone if they didn't use tile of some kind.

At any rate, I did think about quartz or neolith but they didn't feel very organic to me.

dan: He is going to make up two cabinets doors as samples and I am bringing in the chair to use as an example of the color stain I want. I don't know if I can view a large stash of wood because I suspect that it would be ordered in large quantities after I approved the sample as I don't think he has a lumberyard on site :-)

One of the units I viewed today had oak cabinets that he had wire brushed and these were really lovely so I am quite confident of his workmanship.

Helen, may I hijack your thread with a question for OneRidgeOff? What kind of sink do you have?

I also have QSO cabinets and a repurposed black (from a lab or school I'm guessing) sink. We have it set so one of the black sides shows.

Hi Barncatz sorry I just noticed this:

its the Silgranit Ikon 33 in Anthracite. I adore this sink, ask anything about it!

Helen, I will have more kitchen pictures coming soon, but it’s a dusty mess from just finishing up trimwork. Here’s closeup of the wood grain.

OneRidge - Those are just gorgeous and what do you know LOL - they are the color I want as well. If I didn't have the chair to bring to the cabinet maker, I could use your photos :-)

And I just don't understand why people consider wood in that color to be dark. Wood in a medium tone is warm and it also has those golden undertones in the grain so it's completely unlike paint. I view my kitchen as light floors; medium cabinets and dark counter. In terms of discordant - white counters would actually be a much more jarring looking to me visually. Your tiles and mine both have I think the same color tone - i.e. transitioning between the black counters and the lighter medium tone wood of the cabinets. Sisters in taste indeed - your backsplash even has the same movement as mine LOL. I don't have a picture of it but I will post it when I do because the coincidence is too funny - mine is green and yours is blue :-)

I can’t remember if you are doing inset or overlay cabinets. So here’s a closeup of inset, it does end up looking “busier”,

Helen, forgot to answer your question about the counter, it’s Volga Blue /extra/. extra because it’s chock full of blue and blue/green? These really need direct sunlight to pop, like in these western sun pictures. I do have Black Galaxy in a bathroom and also dry Bar.

Because I'm extending the cabinets into the dining area, I want a more furniture look so I am going with inset doors and full overlay drawers. The inset doors really don't impact storage as much as inset drawers do.

I do love that granite but it's a bit busy for my small kitchen so I'm going with the Black Galaxy which picks up the copper. I would dearly love to do a granite like that in my guest bath but I only need a relatively small amount and buying a full slab - as opposed to being able to use a portion of the second Black Galaxy slab would be fiscally crazy since the Laboradite slab is about $4000 - The yard called it blue butterfly but those names seem to vary - it looks a lot like yours though with those gorgeous blue and green iridescent flecks :-)

I'm very happy with both Volga Blue and Black Galaxy- which I think is a great choice with the other copper elements.

My kitchen took two full slabs and I was willing to splurge to get just what I wanted, three hour drive to the regional slab distributor to pick them myself :) But the rest of my house got remnants, have you gotten to the stage of choosing your stone installer? I saw so many exotic stones in smaller vanity sizes, if you have time to hunt and shop around I bet you could find something WOW for the bathroom at a great price.

I'm working with a designer so the fabricator is someone both she and my GC have worked with - I'm relying on their expertise of tradespeople. The only intercession so far has been going with the HVAC company that I have used for years because they are familiar with my system - it's a quirky HVAC system installed in the ceiling which uses a common water line that runs through every unit in a stack :-)

My designer really wants to get the blue remnant for my guest bath and she says she's checking with her sources so we'll see. Using leftovers from Black Galaxy wouldn't be the end of the universe - especially since my guest bath is opposite the kitchen and will have the same cabinetry and a copper sink so it would like coordinated. :-)

Good luck with your designer’s search, there’s so many interesting stones out there with iridescence- I think it was called Blue Labradorite which I was tempted by for my kitchen- except it was double the price of Volga, ouch! but I agree that the back up plan of Galaxy would look great too.

Thanks for letting me know OneRidge. I am always pleased when I see a combo and think "That's really sharp!" as I did when I saw your sink and cabs, and then realize it's similar to choices I've made. #reassurance.

Your inspiration photo for the cabinets is not oak at all, it's quartersawn Sapele. Sapele is native to Africa and a close relative to mahogany. The ribbon pattern is produced when it's quartersawn. Sapele is also known for a wide variety of other figured grain patterns, such as: pommele, quilted, mottled, wavy, beeswing, and fiddleback.

Here's the link to the Crown Point Cabinet site with more photos of the kitchen with your inspiration cabinets:
Crown Point Sapele Kitchen

If you visit the site for Stickley furniture you can view their catalog of Mission Oak and Cherry furniture. All Stickley Mission Oak furniture is made with quartersawn oak. It doesn't look too busy at all. If you look through their catalog you'll see many examples of case goods that look lovely.

@missenigma: Thanks for providing that link, and it's actually here: Gallery 74. The cabinetry is Sapele, however, it's plainsawn, not quartersawn. Have a great day!

Hey Crown Point - Thanks for the correction - plainsawn versus quartersawn. Regarding links to the Gallery - both of our links seem to lead to a 404 page not found error. That's a shame because all of your Galleries are stunning - "Kitchen Inspiration for the Soul!"

Hi missenigma! Thank you so much for the kind words! And you're right, it appears the houzz link function replaces some characters in the URL, causing the 404 issue. Let's try it this way: http://www.crown-point.com/gallery/Collection%207/Gallery%2074/index.html

Thanks again, and have a great day!

Helen my apologies for the delay, life got busy and I forgot to show you a better kitchen picture. Wanted to show you that medium brown oak and black granite and colored backsplash doesn’t have to be a dark hole, when you have adequate lighting.

I am swooning over your tiles. They are absolutely gorgeous.

As is your kitchen. It’s much grander than mine will be in scale but yours is far from the black hole that people seem to think anything but white will be. :-)

i just wrote a check for my tiles so I am swooning a bit for other reasons. LOL.

Ironically the perfect color was a chair I had and my designer and I were visiting the furniture I kept and I showed her the wood color and so the chair is now with the cabinet maker for him to replicate the stain on oak.

I love your tile choice, very Arts and Crafts and a bit reminiscent of verdegris copper, so I think it’s a brilliant choice with your copper accents.

interesting coincidence about your chair being the model stain- the barstools you see by the island, I had owned years before the new kitchen, and I used them as the model stain too. They blend so well, people have asked me if the stools came with the island :) Also, I have been searching for an original Mission oak crib style settee/bench for the hallway/mudroom area, and finally acquired it this weekend. (It’s just to the right of the fridge) Its also a perfect match to the cabinet stain.

What is even odder is that the chairs are actually mid century modern chairs which I inherited from my mother and am repurposing.

I noticed that settee bench in the corner. It’s lovely and the perfect size and proportions.

I didn’t post my kitchen tiles because I don’t have a picture of them. The Encore tiles are for my bathrooms. The kitchen tiles are pretty similar in feel except they have an iridescent luster which picks up the copper. But yes, the greens with movement are very reminiscent of the Arts & Crafts aesthete without being a slavish reproduction.

Oooh, that sounds lovely, I can’t wait to see it all come together. Do you have a projected date for cabinet install?

I wish as I can’t believe I vacated on March 27 and so far only the things done are the ones you don’t see like sub floors, new pipes and drains, electrical panels and other boring stuff.

I am hopeful I will have a toilet and shower by the end of June.

Tiles won’t even be delivered for four weeks.

I did find a picture of the tile I am using for the backsplash - It's Pratt & Larson C611 in a blue tone and will be accented with copper subway tiles from Premier Copper.

It's prettier in person because the picture doesn't capture the iridescent quality of the glaze - They call it metallic but it doesn't read metallic in person.

OneRidgeOff - I really feel like your Mini Me in terms of my color choices since the kitchen backsplash is going to read blue like your tiles. LOL

These are the Pratt & Larson Tiles

These are the copper accent tiles from Premiere Tile

This is the design layout for the tiles - the far right is the dining room built in and the copper tiles will be above the Black Galaxy Counter

Wow, those tiles will be stunning! Yes, great minds think alike lol. It’s nice we found each other, Houzz can be a lonely place when you aren’t doing a white shaker with marble look counters.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with white and marble and when done right it’s beautiful- but it would be so so wrong with my house and my existing furniture and decor. My house is a 70s contemporary and since it has lots of natural stone, medium brown woodwork and exposed beams, the Mission style works very well with it. Having said that, I also thought a slavish reproduction of Mission/Arts and Crafts wouldn’t fit, but incorporating some of those elements was my goal. My parents were both antique collectors and a lot was passed down to me, so my decor is a lot of Mission but with some Empire, Eastlake walnut, and a few 60s-70s pieces thrown in the mix, in homage to my “contemporary of its time” house. My eclectic/eccentric style, for lack of a better term, isn’t something I see much in the modern HGTV world, but I often find inspiration in real estate photos from England, where I used to live, where being eccentric eclectic is a more accepted way of life :)

Addendum - apparently, I am on trend, my design philosophy does exist on Houzz - interesting article

[https://www.houzz.com/magazine/world-of-design-11-secrets-of-british-eccentric-style-stsetivw-vs~64367492[(https://www.houzz.com/magazine/world-of-design-11-secrets-of-british-eccentric-style-stsetivw-vs~64367492)