One petal, one bird, one drop of pink and he considers it femenine.

I believe you, but that's a very recent development, you know. The house I grew up in had a pink hall bathroom--pink tile and fixtures, pink formica vanity with gold flecks, and a very lovely wallpaper of casurina branches in shades of pink and dull gold on an ivory ground. Nobody ever said eek. The original houses on our street were all white with trim in different pastel colors. Ours was aqua, but the pink one sold just as fast. Yes, pink was for girl babies and blue for boys, but after that it didn't matter so much. Men used to wear pink shirts and think nothing of it.

The idea a single drop of pink will give a guy cooties somehow is so weird to me.

Hubby has pink golf shirts and nearly a week goes by that there isn’t a flower bouquet somewhere in the house, 1/2 of which he buys! I think it’s different than seeing it on wall or sleeping/sitting on it.

but again, it’s just a taste thing, not a social/political declaration. Different strokes for different folks.

On the subject of dated, to me that’s just a word. There is a millennial in the family that loves dated surroundings b/c it reminds her of safer times and therefore soothing. She works in a high pressure environment. I change often b/c it rejuvenates me, change excites me. Just tastes, just tastes. If somebody gets offended, it’s unfortunate. If somebody says it maliciously, even worse. Just words....

Perhaps I've always had more of a curious mind...I've never been happy with the answer "because I said so"...in any form, which is exactly what "dated" (or any of a number of other terms) means to me in this respect and on this forum.

An explanation needs to be given to me for me to understand it and not follow blindly along. I was a teacher's nightmare when I was younger...

I feel very strongly that a lot of the instincts of the homeowner, no matter how tentatively conveyed, are right. After all, they live in their homes and we get one photo...

I especially have issues with those who are PRO's who are not design gurus. I wish there was a different designation for that as I think it causes additional confusion.

Thank you all for letting me have my therapy moment here. You all help me crystallize these random thoughts of mine that I know bother me, but I really am unsure of why.

Now I know. :)

1) Why is it acceptable that women live in "masculine" decorated rooms but a man can't live in a "feminine" decorated room

2) It seems that the men who are most uptight about a room or a piece of clothing being too feminine are the least interested in decorating and dressing themselves.

3) Some people will find this offensive, but so be it. It's also often a class related thing. Houses with $100K worth of DeGournay floral or chinoiserie wallcoverings and delicate antiques in the dining room or Pyne Hollyhock all over the bedroom are not solely inhabited by wealthy women or gay men.

Pal,

1). I personally didn’t say it was a rule and never heard of it as a law written in blood anywhere. Just see it as different tastes

2). True. Husband does not care to decorate

3). Possibly, but I don’t automatically equate $$$ to love of flower/bird decor. There are birds/flower motifs in every price range. Some like, some don’t. That’s all.

"Dated" is so subjective. I think mostly it's used as a put-down, like looking "old."

My house is probably dated in somebody's opinion and I both agree and don't care. It's my house. It's paid for. I could change some of the more "dated" aspects but I'm not sure why I'd do it. I have a couch and love seat that are getting kinda shabby looking, so their age is telling. I'd like some new rugs because my taste has changed since I bought the ones I have. Will it change my life? Probably not. Maybe just an extra smile or two. My cats will still throw up on them.

I don't give any weight to a PRO designation. I think of them as sales people. I much more value some of the dedicated regulars here.

Many men and many women live in essentially "masculine" decorated houses because the men find anything "feminine" unacceptable. I didn't mean it was a rule, I meant that it seems to be much more common than not. You rarely see anything remotely "feminine" in most of the houses posted on here for example, unless the poster is an older woman.

Possibly, but I don’t automatically equate $$$ to love of flower/bird decor.

I think it's more that those people (and I dealt with them daily for many years in my job) are not influenced by the Taste Machine. They help run it, some of them, but it plays no part at all in their own lives, except when it pushes something they want to do anyway, like not having to spend money for musicians for entertaining anymore, and then they can use it as an excuse.

because the men find anything "feminine" unacceptable

But so do the women. "Feminine" has become somehow synomymous with "girly" and so almost always pejorative in use now.

Edited for clarification:

You rarely see anything remotely "feminine" in most of the houses posted on here for example, unless the poster is an older woman

Is that necessarily bad or necessarily good?

and before I appear too polarized, I’m buying these today, can’t wait. To me they’re girlie, do I want it on our wall? No. Just my taste.

@writers, we cross posted. I did not use girlie or girly as a pejorative—just as an adjective

The DATED idea has been brainwashed into us by TV shows like House Hunters, where people walk into a perfectly beautiful and functional kitchen and gasp, "This is so dated. We have to redo this whole kitchen."

BUY, BUY, BUY. This is so American.

Realtors want homeowners to keep up with current trends because they think it makes houses easier to sell.

When I first arrived at GW, ORB fixtures were still a thing, but shortly people were telling me ORB was about to become DATED, and that I should think twice about getting them. I shrugged, and yes, ORB isn't talked about so much these days, but I absolutely love my ORB fixtures. Fortunately I've never been much impressed about the word, DATED, unless we're talking washboards or Fortran. (Having a log home here may help...)

Nope. Sorry for them, but I am not moving. I will keep what I like and it can be an AS IS/Fixer UPPER/ WE HAVE NO CLUE WHAT THEY DID OR DID NOT DO after we are dead.

This stuck with me. Pennydesign said she did not like the term ‘b/c I said so’ and preferred a more elaborate explanation. I’m with that.

if people elaborated on what they mean by dated, perhaps audience would be more open to the statement from pro or otherwise.

i remember when I first moved to DH house. I called it dated. What I meant but failed to accurately explain was that I wanted to make it MY/our own. The word dated could be subjective indeed.

Palim, most of my house is fairly masculine in décor (by today's "word"), and I'm a single woman in her early 60s. I am just largely not into flowers unless they're in the yard. (Or, if edible, in the salads...) Although I did add a more feminine ambiance to the guest room, to vary things up. I may not have gone overtly feminine because of this being a log home... It hasn't stopped me from throwing in Asian influences... But I get your point.

The men I know who are interested in decorating (which aren't that many, but I do know several) do enjoy houseplants, and I guess the only birds that showed up at one household were the silhouettes of ravens that appeared one year for Halloween.

I'm like penny..out of all of it, I like explanations most of all. One good explanation would inevitably lead to another (because new questions will come to my mind)and I think it's great.

I don't quite get this masculine-feminine thing especially as it all changed so much through the centuries, and was different thing at different times, in terms of visuals and colors and fashion for sure, even blue for boys, pink for girls is but a century old, but folks already think it's some ancient truth.

bossyvossy I love flowered shoes..i just bought my DD similar sneakers with Liberty design..well I wanted them for myself but she needs another pair more))

back to feminine/masculine..it is a very interesting subject, precisely because it's complicated and intervined, and there's so much to study about it yet, it's fascinating, and when one simplifies on it too much, to me, something gets missed, and that's a very important something.

I even strongly disliked this book, "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus". Lol. I'm probably picky but in some things, simplicity comes from huge talent and wisdom. Like with books and interiors, for example. Otherwise it's a pretend simplicity. I dislike it. I see danger in it, to a degree. People mistake it for a real one.

Bossy, I guess I always called it, "I don't like that", or "that's just not me," or maybe even most accurately, "I'd like to put in my own touch in this new space".

Agree, I s/h said Just that. But at the time, dated is the word that came to mind and I must have not been in touch my decorating soul.

eta: this was just to support statement that if people elaborate, true meanings come out.

Good point, April about the masculine/feminine thing changing thru time. Remember when masculine men wore wigs and powdered faces? (French revolution days?). It convinces me even more that it’s just a taste thing.

I just got off the phone with a girl friend who said to me, Terri you are going to think I'm crazy but I want wallpaper in my living room. She went on to say how her other friends poo poo'd the idea because it is dated. I said, wallpaper is "hot" right now. She had no idea but didn't care one way or the other. Dated is just a word.

terri would she be brave enough to post here? I would love to see what's said...

Or maybe I'll open another account and do a little "research" of my own ;)

She doesn't even have a Facebook page so I doubt if she would post here. It's not her thing.

I couldn’t resist posting this in a most interesting thread. Dated could also mean dingy, sturdy, worn. Would you want the Pro to actually say dingy? For ex. Here is a pic of a kitchen in a Doris Day rom-com. It is gorgeous! But imagine it after 60 years of average use. Hardly anybody wouldn’t call it dated.

but in this pic it is brand new. But blue counters, orange and blue laminate cabinetry, yellow fridge? Come on, how many have a kitchen like this now who didn’t update or in the process of?

And for the “it’s just words department”. Girlie it’s just a word. This is girlie and oh so beautiful but also up in years. From the movie Lover Come Back, 1961. Dated, it’s just a word

Well...I'm quirky, so yes I would have it the kitchen...the hat? I'm not a hat person...

I understand that many wouldn't though. After all, we must do what other's think we must... :-/

But would you love it with 60 years worth of use?

LOL probably not...Even I enjoy change..

I do feel sad when some of these great 50-60's bathrooms come up for discussion here...new homeowners wanting it to look "updated" and not enjoying it for what it is.

But would you love it with 60 years worth of use?

I might, actually. People use antiques.

Today, though, the word "dated" means 10 years old and implies throwing it all out and spending a ton of $$$ to build it new.

The idea that things are not up-to-date (dated) is certainly nothing new. I'm thinking of ads from the fifties basically (or even outright) saying that. Then, as now, some people were influenced enough to say "I need new!" and some weren't. The people who are influenced by it are the people who worry about things being dated. So maybe they should listen.

I don't think it's any more helpful, for those people concerned about such things, to tell them "No! That's classic!" when clearly the choices are driven by what is popular at the moment. Like it or not, those things will appear dated to some people in the not too distant future.

When my parents' house was sold it was to a couple of around thirty who were fairly well-to-do, or at least on that trajectory. I had imagined that the kitchen and bathrooms would go almost immediately (and honestly, my dad's alcove bath was not in great shape, the soap dish was broken and the tub had some rust around the drain).

So I was surprised to see on FB that the kitchen appears to have been updated with granite on the existing cabinets (almost 50 years old). I imagine at some point it will be remodeled but not so far.

I have plenty of pictures of kitchens saved from real estate that are over fifty:

This one comes to mind. This entire house was very well maintained.

We have one of those wonderful pink and black tiled bathrooms in our 1950 home. It is vintage for sure and I love it so much. The toilet, sink, and floor were replaced before we bought the house, but the cup, toothbrush, and toilet paper holder and all but two tiles are in perfect condition.

Pal, that is indeed a very beautiful kitchen that I wouldn’t touch. But for every one like that one, there are 99 others, same vintage that didn’t look like that pre gut or remodel.

it would probably be a shame to alter that particular kitchen but if somebody did, It’s not a right or a wrong thing. It’s just a matter of different tastes.

rats, I want that kitchen

bossy I agree. Most 60 year old kitchens are not in that condition. Most 20 year old kitchens are not in that condition. Many things are not well-built and more people than not are hard on things. The kitchen in question was also in the house of someone who was surprisingly wealthy but lived very modestly (size wise). The house was decorated in the late 50s and early 60s and everything is of the highest quality.

I am sure the entire house has been gutted. And ergonomically there are a few issues with the kitchen like the DW opening down in front of the cooktop, and having to lie down on the floor to turn on the lower oven, for example.

I am in the process of gutting a 50-odd year old house myself. It is a nice design and concept, but the house was not built exactly as conceived and a lot of things have been done in the interim that were very cheap and shoddy. It was a rental the majority of its' life. My plan though, is to make the house look like it should have 50 years ago (without creating a fake time capsule).

Kitchens are a particular room that is technology driven. No one expects someone who lives in a mid nineteenth century house (of which there are many where I live) to use a fireplace to cook (or to use a privy).

But I am not sure that changing something built, that is in good condition, only to conform to the vagaries of current fashion, is always a great idea.

I definitely agree on Pros taking over the decorating side. And was on the receiving end of some rudeness when I dared post my own ideas about what was going on in that forum. I haven't posted much over there any more. I don't need the drama.

When I was first living in my own home where, at long last, the decor was entirely up to me - I was a bit too narrow-focused and then learned over the years after, what I liked didn’t have to be so boring in execution. I’ve never been into patterned stuff, even dots or stripes are noticeably absent from my side(s) of the closet. In the house, you still aren’t going to see the traditional patterns like dots, stripes, or floral - but nowadays you won’t only see crayon box specified blue and white exclusively either. Blue has grown to encompass the color of the Atlantic ocean during a storm, the calm almost tropically bright blue green seas around island archipelagos, June skies over SoCal, and more. White is restricted to being a minimal accent color. It may not be everyone’s cup of tea, but then I’m not forcing anyone to ‘drink the tea or else’ either.

The mister could care less - the house could be decorated in every shade of pink imaginable with purple floral accents - as long as I’m happy with it he’s happy with it. My dad’s the same way (my mom can do what she wants, he prefers not to have her continually ask and debate whether he likes something or not). Of course none of us are professional interior designers by trade, but we tend to stay put in a home for quite a long while, so whoever buys our home once we die can rip out whatever they like once they get the deed and keys. We replace what is broken, or what has reached the end of its lifespan. Carpets and floors are changed out after 10+ years, not because we want to have something new and trendy, but because even a dyson can’t do anything about how worn things look.

There are so many "pro" responses on the decorating side and I seldom try to offer a response because I'm a "take your time" and "first, try to use what you have" kind of person when it comes to decorating. I can't see suggesting another person spend thousands of dollars unless they state their budget is big. Also, I suppose I'm intimidated by the pros because I'm not an expert.

I suppose I'm intimidated by the pros because I'm not an expert.

I can't think why. If you look at the work that many of them proudly post, neither are most of them, unfortunately.

To some extent some of the pros are probably used to working with turn-key situations.

One of my instructors in design school said if he was doing a room or rooms with clients he never delivered things piecemeal. He warehoused everything and did an installation of the room all at once. Of course the room might not be 100% decorated a la Candace Olsen on Divine Design but the majority of the room was installed in one fell swoop and not delivered piecemeal. And he usually sent them off to lunch or away for the day so they were not seeing it partly done.

When my parents bought their new house in 1969, they started working with an interior designer several years earlier and picked out everything for the house as it was being built. We moved into a new house complete with carpet, window treatments and fully furnished in every room. Not a lot of accessories but the rooms were essentially complete. The only thing they kept was their old dining room set, which never got replaced (and we still have it).

People are afraid to do this even if they have the money. People are afraid it will be impersonal and it will not reflect the owner. I don't happen to think this is true, I think a good designer delivers what the client wants. My dad took a (third) part-time job to pay for the furniture. When it was paid for, he resigned that job.

This is how most of the name decorators and designers work, they deliver a finished project, not a little of this and a little of that as time goes on (and on and on). So that may be why many pros look at the room as a whole not at the sofa or the wall color as a particular piece.

The next two rooms to be done in my house are fully designed down to bedding and or upholstery and the demolition hasn't even begun. I am not a wait and see how this looks then wait and see how that looks and then try this or that sort of person. The room is almost complete before it's even started.

That's very interesting, dyhgarden. Yours is a very memorable house, one of my favorites. You're one of the last people who should feel intimidated, imo..then I know that "should feel" doesn't have much sense, since one feels whatever he feels..one can do things with it, of course, he's not destined to feel always one thing, but it's also hard to dictate "feel this, not that!" lol

Makes me wonder though why I'm not intimidated..in this particular case...I think it's good to wonder and to doubt oneself from time to time, so thank you..you gave me food for thought.

palimpsest, that's very interesting and gives one perspective for sure, why questions are often handled differently from what we got used to, here.

I do miss the discussion part in such cases, the journey so to say. But maybe an OP benefits from seeing just a visual or two.

Pros often also answer with the recipee of sorts. A scheme.

GW users try to learn more about an OP.

That's the differences that come to mind.

On the flip side, it's important to remember that the value of Houzz is exactly because you may hear what you don't want to hear. If you don't want to hear that your thingie looks dated, show it to your mom; she likes everything you do.

Sure some here struggle with their tone occasionally; myself included, but that doesn't excuse a poster from some difficult and valuable introspection.

I think in person a good pro will try and learn a lot about a client. My parents' house looked nothing like the houses the same designer had done for other people. Their may have been a "point of view" in the execution but they were not at all the same otherwise.

However some designers do have a strong signature and some designers create the same rooms over and over for different clients and some clients want that.

I had another instructor in school who said be did essentially the same living room, dining room and master bedroom in all the houses of a number of related people. They all wanted no better or no worse (in their minds) than what their siblings had, and they all had the same taste.

And then I think some designers are one-trick ponies and can only do one sort of room and you just relied on the notion that a lot of you clients may not know each other that well.

I think the internet has complicated this somewhat because if you have a website, your portfolio may show the interchangeability of your work in different houses for different people.

And I do think that a lot of GW users steer others toward exactly what they have done. There was a person in the Kitchens Forum who turned every kitchen design posted into a reiteration of her own kitchen. And many people will suggest only the exact paint colors they used.

The odd thing about the internet is that the general public now has access (at least visually) to literally Every Single Resource available to the professions. One would think that there would be an explosion of different expressions compared to when only the pros saw a lot of what was actually available. But I think the opposite has happened, I think there is increasing uniformity.

If you don't want to hear that your thingie looks dated, show it to your mom; she likes everything you do

hilarious and so true

Yes, i think even some PROS become repetitive. Some might say it’s their “signature” element but to critics, they might just call it repetitive.

Hmm, Joe, all I can say is you never met my mom. :)

Ha

palimsest I agree with you more than I can say. I'm thinking about my own field (I don't work for years already yet it's still my field), and it should be so that as knowledge becomes more available people become more knowleadgeable?

But I'm afraid they don't. It's some erzatz of knowledge, widely available, widely spread, but in a some thin way like butter on a piece of bread, and while in decor nothing truly bad is going to happen anyway, well hopefully, whatever I read that pertains to my modest knowledge, or whatever's left of it, it's scary, actually. It's universal where it shouldn't be. It's full of mistakes sometimes, and how somebody without some previous background, or curiosity to dig further, or maybe an ability to see a thoughtful answer from not a thoughtful one, how that somebody even benefits from reading it? He might think he learns too.

(no, my Mom started liking everything I do just recently lol. Decor though was never a problem, true. She's not really into it too, my Grandma was and I am and as long as I, in terms of approach to decor, vaguely remind her of Grandma, in terms of approach to decor, she's good.)

I like this forum precisely because it's like a school-some things are more precise, math-like, some are vague..one can learn from all of them. But I do want to learn. It takes a lot of reading. And good posters. So in forum format, it's easier to spot good posters and to read to one's heart content.

Other platforms might look very different.

What Pal said makes me think...Logic says that exposure (via simple clicking) to so many varied and utterly delightful visuals would give us the freedom to trust our own selves when it comes to how we want our homes to look...So where does the Pottery Barn lemming mentality come from? And why are so many PROS feeding that (to varying degrees)?

I honestly thought that Houzz would be a place that would show me individuality and creativity. On all levels. (DIY, high end, middle of the road...).

There is a discussion over there that has to do with a bland room that looks like the OP just needs a tiny bit of confidence to jump right in and go for it...sadly, she's getting the same old same old from all, brainwashing her to believe that that's what she really wants...

I very much admire ALL here who show individuality and I'm sad to read the inevitable negative thoughts on their threads. It's happened to me with my own thread and I'm not a strong person. I wish I was. I will never, ever forget one of the comments who gave me the push. She did more for me in that one sentence than I could express without embarrassing myself.

I’m very visual so a lot of inspiration comes from Pinterest. Sometimes I have a vision, do a Pinterest search and sure enough my vision or close to it is there. Serves as springboard to complete project. I must admit I don’t have many projects as most of space is the way l like it