Hi

Before installation the wood has to acclimate to the condition inside the place being installed for couple days, if the air is to dry inside condominium or apartment ( i asume is one of two as most of the problems of this type occur in those places due to dry air) then it is a problem as dry air will suck out the moisture from wood and makes it to shrink, usually the gaps apear in couple days after installation, the filler will come out in time... Check humidity inside, should be btw 35-60%, if lower than that get a humidifier to bring the moisture up, it has to be constant throughout the year! Also keep a constant temperature!

Good luck

Mike

Common expansion and contraction. Throw some stain in the joints if it bothers you that much.

Pictures, please.

Thanks all. I was trying to take this one problem at a time. But, I'll go ahead and explain the whole situation and post pictures. Besides the gaps, I feel that the whole job was done poorly. Here is additional information: We have humidifiers and have kept the house between 38% - 50% humidity (and between 68 to 74 degrees) since before the wood was even delivered to the house. We also have 3 hygrometers throughout the house (that also show the highest and lowest humidity in the last 24 hours). The wood was in the house for about a week before installation. We live in a 3,700 sqft house (not apt or condo). As I mentioned, most of the gaps have since been filled with putty - and it doesn't look too horrible for the most part (if this was the only problem, I think we could live with it). But, the putty was also used for some areas where it looks like there are some chips or splinters in the wood. The engineered flooring and the bullnose at the very top of the stairs are different heights, so you could easily trip. The staining (on the stairs, railing, and a bullnose on a step between a hallway and a room on the first floor) was done poorly (and a spot on the railing was completely missed). The wood used for the railings is starting to splinter. Here are some pictures:

I know some of these pics are from closer up than you would normally judge a floor - but things don't look much better from a few more feet away.

Any comments, ideas, or suggestions about what to do from here are much appreciated! What do you think would be reasonable for us to ask our flooring company to do to fix this?

Thanks in advance!!

Was this a stand alone full spread glue job? Glue and nail assis? Or nail and glue assist?

Looks like a typical rush job and/or inexperienced installers and possibly lousy product to work with. It's all too common these days. The work along the stair nosing proves that. If you're happy with the fixes leave it go.

What is the name/brand of this flooring?

Hi Violet94, curious as to the brand and color. Thanks in advance

The floor is Mannington Norwegian Oak (first floor is the color Glacier and second floor is the color Rawhide). The planks are 6.3" wide and 3/8" thick. It was a full spread glue job. The flooring company we went with had such high reviews on multiple websites, and are considered a reputable company in the area - but I agree with Uptown Floors above that it must have been a rush job and inexperienced installers. We're definitely unhappy about the whole project and it seems doubtful that any installers/stainers/etc. who would think that the above end results are acceptable could even fix these issues - so we're not sure if we should even have the original company continue to come back and try to fix these things or find a completely different flooring company in the area who may be able to do a better job.

I would advise you to get another company come out and fix it if you can find one, after seeing the pictures i have to agree this was done by inexperienced workers... How some of this guys stil have work it's a miracle!

I can empathize with you. We are in our biggest nightmare... We moved into a new construction semi-custom home in November and have daily battles to get our floors fixed (let alone punch list completed). I will note that our issue seems to be related to the contractors, not the actual floors...

We have dips in the floor between beams, abnormal gaps between planks, empty nail holes, and terrible squeaking -- all which have gotten progressively worse since we moved in. While the GC suggested that we nail into the floor to "secure the beams" and "stick some putty in the empty nail holes", external flooring contractors (as well as the GC's own guys) have informed us that this is not a permanent solution and that the subfloor underneath needs to be examined and repaired (i.e., sanded down, planks replaced, etc.). The GC continues to tell us that the floor "meets industry standards..."

We're also having issues with the stairs... They need to be sanded down and restrained... or something.

At this point, we don't know what to do aside from taking the GC/developer to small claims court. It's a big, embarrassing mess for a new and expensive house... Every day feels like a terrible nightmare-- it's really defeating when you just want to make your house a home.

Sorry for the rant. Hang in there, @Violet94. I feel you.

Thank you, I appreciate everybody's responses.

@REL0516 - hopefully they don't use too much putty! A lot of putty was used in the gaps of my floors (took 2 workers 5 hours to putty the biggest gaps!), and now I have dark gray streaks on my socks anytime I walk on the floor and the putty is already falling out in places. We also have noticed that by our fireplace, the wood slopes down - the marble of the fireplace is level. On the left side of the pic below, the marble extends only 1/4" above the wood, but on the right side, the marble extends 5/8" above the wood....so we're talking a 3/8" elevation difference over about ~14 inches of the flooring.

Wow. More "installation error" going on with a floor that was not leveled. To be fair, we have to ask how much you PAID for leveling/subfloor preparation. If you paid for it, you should get it. If you did NOT pay for it, then there is *nothing missing (from a contractual point of view....sad as that is to say).

Check your paper work. The sloping subfloor is going to be your ticket OUT of this bad floor. I kid you not. The contract is going to tell you how to get free of this floor and this company - at the company's expense.

The putty falling out already means their "fix" didn't even make it a month!!!! Another nail in their coffin. The stain is coming off on your socks. Another nail in the coffin.

Go ahead and deep 6 this by finding your paperwork - and find the line item that says "subfloor prep" or "leveling". If you PAID FOR IT - you GET IT. Because you have evidence that you did NOT get "leveling" you have enough evidence to REQUIRE a new FLOOR!

Yes. Lack of subfloor prep (so long as you paid for it) is enough to have this floor ripped out and replaced on their dime. I highly recommend you pull out the paper work and find that single line item.

Let us know if you paid for subfloor prep or leveling.

So, I checked our invoice/contract - and it doesn't mention anything about the subfloors one way or another (just mentions "installation labor" but doesn't go into what all that entails). We didn't even know there were any issues with our subfloor - nothing was ever brought up about it. Who should have brought this up - installers, flooring company, or us? We thought that proper preparation of the floor was standard procedure (I guess we were wrong about that!)

The contract does say that they guarantee that the work and product will be free of defect for 12 months after installation. I definitely don't think that what they've done is free of defect!

Thanks again everybody for all of your input! We have been in contact with our flooring company, but they are being very slow to respond. Any other input you can think of is much appreciated!!

Technically the subfloor belongs to the "homeowner" and is therefore the perfection (or lack thereof) belongs to the homeowner. For that reason, the preparation is a separate contract/requirement. In other words the homeowner is on the hook for the subfloors in their possession but it is up to the professionals to at least DISCUSS the concerns. The problems the professionals face when the subfloors are covered by stuff like carpet, laminate, hardwood, etc. when they come in to make a bid on the project. If the condition of the subfloor was HIDDEN during the time they came in to do measurements, they may not have been required to discuss preparation at the time.

Once the contract was written and signed, it is often "too late" for contractors/flooring professionals to add-in the subfloor costs...homeowners seem to become rather upset and fear the "bait and switch" when honest contractors attempt to bring this to the owner's attention. You can see the "rock and a hard place" this puts flooring professionals in.

If there is a General Contractor (which is a legal term as well as a job description) then it is the GC is responsible for making sure it has been noted and dealt with by the subcontractors that work for them.

The problem comes in when there is NO GC. In Canada, if there is no designated GC, then by DEFAULT the HOMEOWNER takes on all the legal implications of being the General Contract. A problem like subfloor preparation becomes the homeowner's responsibility.

It is up to the subcontractor to INFORM the GC (ie. the homeowner if there is no GC) that there is a concern. If the GC (ahem...homeowner) chooses to ignore the concerns, then the GC takes on all responsibility for the concerns that pop up later.

If you have a GC (it would say it on paper...with earnings listed to be 15% of costs+labor), then the GC is the one you go to. If you do not have one, then you are the GC. The flooring company is normally considered a subcontractor (who chooses to use labour from multiple sources) - not the GC. You can see where this gets muddy REALLY quickly.

Subfloor preparation is normally a separate line item. It *might be buried in the "installation labour"...but I doubt it. Installation labour is often reserved JUST FOR the labor to install the wood floor product (hence the wording). Preparation can be broken down (but often is NOT) into "materials required" (like plywood, screws, self leveling compound, etc) and "preparation labour". This is rare but it can be separate lines.

The subfloor preparation *should have been mentioned in a basic/quick quote with a range that would have looked like "Preparation Costs: $1.50 - $4.50/sf depending on conditions of substrate." This quick quote would have been written AFTER the contractor/flooring installer WALKED THROUGH YOUR HOME to take measurements/look at conditions. If this did NOT happen....then things were in the *red flag* area before you picked your wood.

Now to be fair, this type of wording scares the HECK out of homeowners because it means they are "on the hook" for a price that is NOT set in stone...

Too many homeowners have WALKED AWAY from quotes with this type of wording/numbers. And companies (big and small) are getting tired of losing bids to the "lowest bidder" who LEAVES OUT this important information.

So the companies that are on the "up and up" eventually have to make the change to the "bare bones" quotes that wins the bid. And then they have to HOPE BEYOND HOPE that NOTHING goes wrong (like in your situation).

That guarantee is going to be as good as it gets. You better find the small print to see if there are caveats to the 100% guarantee. Push hard for the 100% guarantee.

It is probably time to spend another $$$ to bring in an NWFA Certified Flooring Inspector. Their report is good enough to go to court with...which means it is good enough to trigger the 100% guarantee.

SJ McCarthy, Thank you for all that information. It explains why I had 5 floor guys run for the hills when they saw my floors. Never returned phone calls or even bothered to give me an estimate. Well one responded but took forever and was always busy when I tried to schedule it all. I have saltillo tile on top of slab. Of course NOW I have a GC who has dealt with this before. His team is going to strip the floor of the tile with a jackhammer and then prep the floor (filling in holes with concrete..) and then lay down a prefloor and then our engineered hardwood on top of that. And yes it is going to be more than the original floor quotes but I believe this is the right path to take with my floors.

Everything you wrote is so helpful to me. Thanks again.

@boxerpal - it sounds like you found a good one. Saltillo tile is a NIGHTMARE to deal with (usually cemented in with thick mortar = horrible to remove).

All I can say to someone in your situation is this: "Pay the good professionals what they ask. They are worth it. It will push the low-bidders to the curb."

Sadly the "good guys" are being pushed to the curb because most customers want the lowest price - regardless. Which means the "bad guys" are winning every bid. And the "good guys" are left in the gutter because they will not cut corners.

Hello all - Since nobody from the flooring company ever responded to the email we sent about 4 days ago outlining all the issues in detail (with pictures), my husband called our project manager. He did say that he read our email - although didn't say why he didn't call or email us with a response. He seemed irritated and kept interrupting my husband when he spoke, but will meet with us again to go over all the issues. When my husband brought up our concerns with all the putty used, the project manager said that using putty is standard in all of their engineered wood floor installations, and that the installers spent a lot of effort in filling the gaps (I'm thinking - there shouldn't be so many gaps that they HAVE to spend that much effort/time!). He told my husband that the Color Putty will dry in about a week, will become "rock hard," and will become a "permanent fixture." He said it is normal for putty to get all over your socks until it dries. It is my understanding that the putty isn't permanent and will crumble and fall out (which it already has in places). He said that the putty "was the only thing that they could do outside of tearing everything apart."

We'll see what he says when we meet with him, but it does NOT seem like he'll agree to anything outside of "touching up" the staining and finishing/fixing the baluster installation (neither of which we trust his company to do correctly) . Sounds like an inspection from a Certified Wood Flooring Inspector is in our near future!!

They did not properly fill the gaps in your pre-finished floor. The focus is to fill the gap and not the bevel. This is their problem, they have been filling the bevels. Which can be up to an 1/8" of putty. The proper way to fill pre-finished flooring is to fill the gaps up to the bevel. And then using the end of a piece of scrap wood with a 90 degree corner. Scrape the edge, removing any excess putty. It will leave you with a fine line. The putty would not even be visible.

The problem they have now is that the putty they have applied will be rock hard. They can try wetting the putty to see if, they can get it soft enough to scrape off.

@G & S Floor Service - what you're saying makes sense with what I'm seeing. The gaps with the putty don't have a bevel anymore. It's just like the putty was used in the same way you'd grout tile. Also, on the wood surrounding the filled gaps, there's some sort of residue that you can see when light hits it the right way - like the putty got on the wood and wasn't really wiped off very well. Thanks for the insight!!

This is sounding more and more like a complete demo/redo. It wasn't good at the beginning of the thread. But now that we hear more, it is becoming clear that this isn't going to make as an "appropriate" install.

www.nwfa.org

Go ahead and find the closest installer to you and get them out to inspect your floors. The GC and his "floor company" isn't doing anything other than messing up.

I've been in touch with the nearest NWFA Certified Wood Flooring Inspector to schedule an inspection of everything. We're just finalizing a day/time for him to do the inspection - hopefully early this coming week.

Thanks to everybody for all of your guidance on this matter!

Excellent. Let us know the findings.

Thank you, I will let everybody know what I find out. The inspection is scheduled for tomorrow afternoon.

So what was the verdict?

The inspector said he should be finished with the report sometime next week - I'll post his findings.

For anybody who is still following this, it has been almost 5 weeks since we had the inspector, but we still don't have an inspection report. The inspector told us a couple of weeks ago that it was almost ready....we waited a few days and no report (he said it would be emailed to me). So, my husband and I have both contacted him multiple times since then (spoke to him over the phone, texted, and emailed)....and if he responds, he says that it'll be ready "tonight" or "tomorrow".....then the time comes and goes without him saying why he hasn't emailed me the finished report....then we call/text/email....and the same thing happens. This has been incredibly frustrating!!

Anybody have any ideas on what to do at this point?

That's crazy. Is he a certified inspector?

Yes, he is certified. I found his name on the National Wood Flooring Association website.

Have you paid the inspection fee? If you have, that report belongs to you...and if he fails to produce it, that is a BIG legal no-no.

I've seen quick reports take 2-5 days. I've seen complicated reports (30+ pages + 30+ pics) take upwards of two weeks. With the amount of problems you have, I would expect two weeks would be the natural length of time for this.

I would say 5 weeks is too long. I would question whether or not he lost part of his notes... or has had a horrendous family event that has prevented him from getting to the report.

Yes, I have already paid the inspection fee (I paid it upon completion of the inspection, just before he left my house). With as many problems as there are, I would expect this to take a few weeks....5 weeks just seems a bit too long. Even then, if the inspector would just communicate with me and let me know that he's running behind, something came up, etc., I would be more understanding. But, when he gives a time that the report will be finished....then that time comes and goes without letting me know that it won't be ready....it just really makes me wonder what's going on.

I would not hesitate to contact him again and ask him exactly what IS going on.

Hound the inspector. Call morning, lunch and afternoon...every day if needed.

I want to follow this. You need a dose of justice. I hope the inspector does the right thing. Is there anyone in charge of all the inspectors? I wonder how much do those inspectors charge, and did you pay with a credit card?

Hello to everybody still following along with this! We finally did get the inspection report back - it was a very through, detailed report. To make a long story short, the inspector found issues with everything: installation of the floors/railings/balusters, staining, the flooring product itself, etc. He addressed every concern that we had, and even found additional issues. I shared the inspection report with the flooring company who installed the floors and stairs, and they have agreed to remove and replace everything. Once we gave them the inspection report, the flooring company has been really great about wanting to make everything right, and making sure that we get a really nice floor/staircase/railing system. They assured us that not a single person who worked on our project initially will be working on it this time. In fact, all of the people who originally worked on our project were either let go, or left the company on their own.

Since there were also so many issues with the flooring product and the gray color, we actually decided to go with a completely different brand, color, and species of wood. Our next step is to decide on a schedule for the work - so I'm sure it'll be a while until everything is completed.

Thank you to everybody who commented on this thread with your ideas, suggestions, and comments!!!

It's amazing what a properly written inspection report (that is detailed enough to take to court) can do for a homeowner.

I'm sorry you've had to go through this. I'm just happy to see that you will be getting the floor you paid for.

It just SUCKS that so many folks have to go through all this. Makes one hesitant to ever hire a floor company in the first place. Or even get wood floors!

Glad everything worked out in your favor.

I feel your pain!!! Glad you got someone to help with this! Give us an update on how everything turned out!!!