I prefer Pavie, but Daley is very nice. I'd recommend partial shade for both, at least in hot to pretty warm climates. I've grown them in afternoon shade in PDX. Better color and longer lasting blooms. Both are very nice and I like Daley almost as much as Pavie. Useful, modest size, flexible, healthy, thornless, sweet fragrance--both. Pavie seems slightly more fragrant to my nose, but that could be imagination. Carol

I bought 2 Marie Pavies and 2 Marie Daleys from ARE and planted them around the end of Dec, 2007. MP got bigger - easily twice as big. Neither did well here from the beginning IMHO, but MP has done better. MD's color was pink in the bud, barely pink upon opening, and whitish thereafter. Very little difference from MP. They both have suffered from tan leaves, not exactly BS, but sickly looking and very little blooming through the summer. I tried to move the MDs to pots, but they croaked in short order. Maybe my thumbs aren't as green as they need to be. The weather is becoming cooler, and it shows. MP has more flowers, bigger leaves - though still a good many tan leaves. I'm not real pleased with them, but they are young. My opinion of the EarthKind rating is that it may be irrelevant in humid conditions - which much of Texas is not. We'll see now that our humidity is about to break how MP does, but we will never have 10 or 20 percent humidity in Florida! All of this that I have described may be summer dormancy, too. Most everything in my garden (Teas, HMs, GaA & even Chinas - except Monsieur Tillier) dropped their leaves and stayed bare for more than a month in August & September. I am really hoping that with maturity will come the ability to handle the heat better. But back to Marie Daley...I was unimpressed. Sherry

I don't know which mine is, and I call her 'Marie' ;) I'm glad yours made it! Mine has been treated so badly, but I did transplant her this spring so I don't forget about the poor thing anymore. She's tough! Mine got hidden in Bermuda grass in a very small garden area I didn't expand after I put her in. Oops. Now she's in a real bed and much happier, lol.

According to Vintage Gardens last catalogue it is classified as a polyantha & Gregg characterises it as perfect. I agree, I have grown 3 for the last 5 years trouble-free, always in bloom, right now 2 of them are covered with buds, the other one has kindly been pruned by my citified deer. They easily jump (or walk over my picket fence)but are not much of a nuisance. My soil is acid clay which I have amended with my compost & sundry mulches etc. The plants have a beautiful shape without much help from me.Very healthy here where blackspot is usually a problem. Hope my rambling is of some value. Jane