It looks good assuming you will have a corner cabinet with lazy susan instead of blind-corner cabinet and upper cabinets on both sides of the hood-vent can be wider unless you looking for that open look.

These “ton of contractors and designers” gave you that plan? Or, no one told you the lie you wanted to hear that agreed with your plan? And you weren’t willing to pay a design retainer to an actual KD to get real design work? Designers don’t work for free. And contractors that would give you estimates on non existing design work are not worth hiring. Spinning your wheels.

The Refrigeration That Ate The Whole House is completely out of scale to your home. And it’s front and center on display. It’s a terrible look. And not great for functionality either since it’s not readily accessible to those from outside the kitchen.

If you’re removing walls for that open plan, finish the job. That little wing wall detracts. And you’re missing the will be needed post on the outside wall to support the needed header. That is going to impact the table clearances.

A much better look would be to have the cooking zone be the focal point from the living area, not the Fridge Monsters. Then reduce the cold storage to one, and place it and the other talls on the short wall. Including pantry cabinets. Not a closet pantry. That is the worst of all worlds. It’s nether a walk in, nor cabinets. It remains difficult to organize and access.

Kind of following up on Sophie's comment - here's the kitchen with everything rotated position

- Pantry, fridge, prep sink and stove (+ovens) are all to one side

- Clean up sink, dish storage, DW on the other side

- Room for 3 seats at the island

HI -- Yes ,

much better !!

I would do pullout pantries since that is really no a walkin one anyway, the bottom wall oven will be just as possible to burn little fingers as the one in the range . I would remove the wall cabinets from either side of the cooktop since the ones there ruin the symetry of that wall and the pullout pantries will hold a lot more than that one you have designed so whatever was in those cabinets can be located. I do agree the fridges the wall ovens should all be in one wall and it looks to like the best place for the cooktop would be on the wall where the sink is since that appears to be an outside wall and would make venting simple. BTW I sure hope that is not a 48” cook top becusae your venting will cost at least as much as the cooktop and will be noisy as heck .

Patricia makes a good point about the cooktop + venting

Seems worth it to get a quote for moving the window - it'll dramatically improve the flow of your kitchen. As is, the aisle between the fridge & island will have all of the traffic going through it (opening fridge/freezer for prep/setting table; loading/unloading DW; getting dishes; going from island prep to cooktop; accessing the trash).

Also, trying to make a 3' deep pantry a 'walk in' is just wasting space since you need ~24" for the human to walk, you're wasting 2/3 of the area for that alone, leaving you 1/3 for storage. Having either pull-outs or a shallower cabinet is a better approach

Do you use a microwave? Where's its planned location? Do you need two ovens or would 1 oven + a i.e. steam oven work?

Over the sink

That stub wall by the pantry can be cut back so that the cabinets on that run die into it. It may need a new beam, but that stub wall is s big PIA for clearances etc.

Consider putting a small fridge, mainly for beverages, in the island in a spot that will allow easy access for your kids (away from the stove and close to the dining table). Then reduce the size of the main fridge.

I like your plan.

If the only reason for the wall ovens is keeping your kids away from them, I would just recommend teaching them "no, hot" and that you mean it. The three year old can probably already reach the top of the hot stove, right? They will grow big enough to encounter dangers so quickly. Better to teach them what the dangers are and how to be safe than to make big decisions like this based on trying to isolate the dangers altogether. And now I've ventured into parenting advice territory. Sorry.

The minimum size for a walk in pantry is the same for a walk in closet. You’re not getting storage on two long sides without it being at least 72” nominally. Remember that the studs and drywall take up 4.5” per wall. And that’s putting 12” shallow storage on one side, 24” deeper storage for the other, and only allotting barely a 30” walkway. It’s really tight.

You can do a “step in” pantry, with bifold doors, in a 24” deep space, with 12” shelving, and have the “ears” turn the corner with 24 ” deep shelves. But it’s far more awkward. Access is much worse, especially for those ears.

The best, most efficient, easiest to access, pantry storage in the smallest footprint is from a cabinet pantry at least 24” wide, with roll outs.

In the design suggested above would you or the sink or the cooktop on the left wall where the fridge/freezer?

I don't quite understand your question... I wouldn't put anything else on the short wall if the FF + the ovens are there. Leaving space between the ovens and FF == landing spot for stuff going in and out of the ovens. Leaving space on the other side of the FF == second prep location/area for small appliances (food processor, etc).

As for the pantry - you can see shelly_k's in [this thread[(https://www.houzz.com/discussions/minimum-size-for-walk-in-pantry-dsvw-vd~2671167) is similar size to the one I added to the two plans posted below. As noted by Sophie, basically it'd be a whooooole bunch of 12" shelving.

The compromises are either (1) a range [not separate cooktop/ovens] or (2) a smaller fridge/freezer

(1) Range

(2) smaller FF

I think your pantry will be fine and makes good use of that space.

The fridge/ freezer does seem huge for the space. Could you do two separate units? A freezer where you had it in your first layout (near the dining table / sink) with the freezer where you have it in your second (near the pantry)?

This is what my mom has and yes she uses all that and more (full sized back up fridge for beverages in the garage).

Also consider a panel-ready fridge/freezer so it blends in more.

Do you have space in your house (garage, basement, laundry, etc.) for a backup fridge or freezer? If so, then the space you have allocated for that massive unit seems like overkill.

I'd definitely consider moving the range top to the sink wall and a smaller refrigerator to the oven wall. I have double ovens and love them but as someone above mentioned, the kid safety factor is there regardless of whether you have a full range or separate units.

And before you get a 48" range top, definitely consider your cooking habits and whether you'll EVER have SIX pots on the stove at the same time. Also consider how often you'd use that griddle. I have a 36" KA range top (all burners) and I've never once used all at the same time. DH wanted the griddle but I insisted on all burners and we use a griddle pan that covers two burners or an electric skillet if needed. My SIL has a 48" range top and she swears it's overkill and wishes it were smaller. In my next house, I'll do things differently and have two portable induction elements if I need more burners. Also, a vent hood for a 48" range top will sound like a jet plane about to take off.

I think the ceiling does a good job of defining the kitchen and you shouldn't crowd the dining area. I'm mulling over an idea for you.

What is the length of the wall from the soffit-like drop near the dining room back to the corner? The red line:

Curious about benjesbride's idea.

Why the gigantic appliances and pantry for a family of four?

Among my friends I have several homeschool scratch-cooking moms of 5 as well as a couple who are an executive chef and a pastry chef. No one has the refrigeration, storage and cooking appliances you're planning.

What is presently behind the kitchen? (behind the ovens and fridge)

Are you trying to maximize a view with this renovation? I'm wondering if putting the kitchen + island in the formal dining area and having a singular dining space under the vaulted area would be a better use of space? If you're up for it, you could post a sketch of how this floor layout.

Not to sound trite, but sometimes liking the look of something versus the functionality of it are two entirely different things. A 48" range top is going to require a 54" vent hood at least. That's a lot of cabinet real estate for your size kitchen. It doesn't really appear to me that you'll be gaining that much more storage to reno your kitchen than what you have now if you have a massive fridge, wide range top and double ovens. Just my two cents.....

I like benjesbride's idea of posting your complete layout.

I had a drawing almost done and the Ikea planner crashed. Whomp whomp. I'll have a chance to put it together again this afternoon.

In the meantime... Have you heard about the Kohler Stages 45? I included space for one in my drawing. You might like it... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnVOympznlI&feature=youtu.be

You're going to love it.

If you want a double fridge, get one. A step in pantry would be a dream come true for me.

It looks like there are stairs behind the existing fridge. If there are.. just want to make sure... there's no below-stairs area on that back wall we can capture for pantry space?

Cool. Strange that they put them there in the drawing.

I highly recommend a walk-in pantry no matter what you have to do to get it. They are so functional and give a lot of bang for the buck. Have you considered putting your main sink in the island? I never thought I'd like it but our new kitchen has it and it's fantastic. I can watch TV while at the sink and you may be able to keep an eye on the kiddies better than if your back is to the family room. Good luck!

This space does not have room for a walk in pantry.

For fun I tried a layout that used the corner to anchor an "island" rather than let that corner create an awkward pinch point or an awkward and inefficient step in pantry. I also wanted to try to make your exhaust hood more prominent and hide the monolithic fridge/freezer/pantry situation as much as possible.

The cooktop is positioned so it is completely under the lower part of the kitchen ceiling. I'm not a fan of the look of the double oven, but if its required, I do think it's best for ovens to be close to the cooktop both for the benefit of the exhaust hood and also for those occasions when things go from cooktop to oven so you're not hauling a hot skillet across the kitchen.

I'm limited by what the Ikea planner offers, so the ovens are 30", the exhaust hood cabinet is 42", the cooktop is 36", the fridge/freezers are 36" each, the pantry is 30" and the two 24" sinks represent a stages 45. Note that there is an additional 10 feet of 15" deep base cabinet storage across the back of the island.

Please take a look again and compare. An island up against essentially a post with a 4' aisle around it is no more closed off than what you originally posted, it's just a more efficient use of clear floor space.

A walk in pantry is basically another room. As Sophie mentioned upthread you're looking at a 72" wide space and I'm guessing at least 72" deep. I don't see how you're carving out a >6' x >6' room within this room without it being absurd. A 3' deep step in pantry is terribly inefficient IMO. Reach in pantries with pullouts store a ton of stuff.

I'm not a fan of corner pantries, but if the pantry isn't situated between
major appliances, or in the middle of the kitchen, then it can work.
Using Sophiewheeler's suggestion to make the cooktop and hood a focal
point, and using the existing window, I put the cooktop/hood on the
exterior wall, with a prep sink on the island. I wasn't sure of the
exact location of the window, so the cabinet widths will need tweaking.
Island stays in current orientation.

Jennifer M suggested using separate fridge and freezer--there is a freezer column drawn beside the pantry, with refrigerator and ovens on the short wall. A MW on a shelf
beside the fridge, or in a drawer below, is part of a snack center, where someone can grab something without entering the prep and cooking zones. Instead of a MW drawer, you could have a beverage fridge, which should relieve some of the congestion in the fridge. Dishes would be stored in the uppers to the right of the DW, and/or in drawers on the end of the island, also accessible without entering the prep/cooking zone.

There is zone crossing in this plan, but space to go around the open DW door. The DW is 18" from the corner, which is less than the NKBA recommended minimum of
21"--but 18" is workable, and depending on the location of the window, you might have a few spare inches.

Prep sink is centered on the island--I put the trash pull-out on the side nearer the cooktop, but it could be placed on the other side, near the clean-up zone.

Fridge is outside the recommended distance from the cooktop, but the corner of the island will not interfere with the path. Landing for the fridge will be in small snack center, or the island; landing for the ovens will be to the left, or on the island. The two narrow areas--one beside the DW, and one beside the oven cabinet, could be pull-outs or slots for baking sheets, cutting boards, boxes of food wraps, etc.

ETA, sorry about the weird spacing of the text--I tried to correct it, but it's not working.

Just to add to the mix...two ideas to consider.

Putting the sink off-center on the island leaves a larger prep area. I am happy we made this decision with just space for pull-out trash/recycling at the short end making that accessible to folks outside the kitchen workspace.

Consider refrigerator drawers. A friend of mine uses these for lunch items and it works perfectly.

Curious about your strong desire for a pantry (even a small one). Is there a reason?

“We have met with a ton of contractors and designers ”

And have yet to commit to any of them to develop any real plans based off of the real construction possibilities. Thus ever more churning and burning of brain cells without the appropriate constrains being really considered and the inappropriate ones discarded.

Constraint #1 is in your mind about that stub wall. It can be removed and a steel beam from the rear corner to the outer wall placed. And it would suit the style of the home too.

Constraint #2 is self created as well. You want an appliance showroom in a space too small to support it. Stop with the out of scale choices, and the design improves dramatically.

Constraint #3 is also self created. You’ve talked to lots of people but have not committed to working with any. You need professional design and build help here. And you are spinning your wheels without it.

You don’t need the “we can do whatever you want” wimpy wallet pickers either. They’ll agree to whatever as long as they get the job and can pocketbthe money.

You need someone with some sensible pushback to these ideas of yours that have hindered your project. But you won’t make the leap of trust that it takes to make that happen. That is your biggest issue. And you need to stop everything until you solve it.

Your original layout is good (even though the fridge IS a bit too big) because at least the appliances are in the right order. I don’t object to seeing a fridge in a kitchen. The prep sink should not be all the way at the end and a 2’ deep pantry closet is more efficient than a 3’ deep closet because it holds the same amount in less space.

Benje’s layout is also good. Creative use of space.

If you want wall ovens, get them. You have plenty of space for them. They are desirable not only for little kids’ sake. Not sure why all the negative comments about them on this thread when they are recommended on others.

I'm hoping Sophie Wheeler didn't mean to be as, well, critical as it sounds. You need encouragement not analysis. Anyway, you're on the right track and will get a wonderful result in the end. On wall ovens, the only drawback that I see is that if it's all one unit and if one breaks, replacement means both have to go.

I have a large pantry that includes large sink (an American Standard similar to the Kohler system: fits my largest roaster and came with sliding, removable dishpan, strainer, and wood chopping board) and a second dishwasher. Can't recommend two dishwashers enough if you cook for a crowd. But then, my actual kitchen area is quite small (about 12 x 9).

P.S. Just checked the website and it seems American Standard doesn't make that sink any more.

Hello Again!

We took all of your ideas and suggestions back to a designer and came up with this new design. We hope to take this to our contractor and get started. The blue on either side of the stove are windows but I’m not committed to those if it seems out of place. Would love any commentary. Please see the posts above to see original kitchen. We now plan on moving the original window over per your suggestions.

Thanks!!

The things I liked about your original plan were the fridge and second sink were at the edge of the kitchen. I find there is a lot of traffic to the fridge and second sink by my family. Everyone in my house uses the second sink as a handwashing sink. It is also closest to walking in the house from the garage at my house. Your current fridge location is ok, since people can access it from the right without walking through your work area. In your layout, people can use the main sink to wash hands or veggies if they are helping cook if you are working between the fridge and stove. To me the second sink placement on that corner of prime work space in your "work triangle" is not ideal and seems like it would get in the way and only be usable by one person. But if it has a garbage disposal, perhaps it is a great prep sink location and won't be used for handwashing as my second sink is.

With your current plan, I like that the dishes and silverware are at the edge of the kitchen, assuming they are in the drawer and cabinet closest to the dishwasher. That is the other thing people go to grab a lot so you want at the edge. Though it is a bit far to grab a plate or then go to get food or drink through the work triangle from the fridge in this layout.................

The bottom line is that you need to think about how you live and use your kitchen. I do not mind the fridge being visible from other areas, and I am with you on the bigger it is the better!! There is no such thing as a too big pantry or fridge to me, and if you have the space, go for it.

Everyone will give you slightly different opinions on what to do where. If you are getting multiple contradicting opinions, it means there is no "right" answer and you have to go with what you like.

You have a lovely interesting ceiling and room around the kitchen. I am sure whatever your final layout, it will be nice and work for you! The less plumbing,gasline changes you have to make moving things around, the less cost.

Imagine how you all will use the space and do what is best for you :)

lafdr

I can imagine cooking in this space myself; it's a good layout. One thing you might consider is moving that sink over a foot or so. Visualize taking a head of lettuce and some carrots and a pepper out of the fridge to wash them. You would have to put them either behind the sink or past it. Not a major item of course. And I'm not personally a fan of open shelves (maybe because I'm at best a reluctant duster!). I'd go for a wine/wineglass rack or a rod for hanging kitchen tools or a knife magnet. I have the first two and use them every day.

I know you took into account the suggestions up thread, but I like your first layout better. The fridge, prep sink, and stove are just too squished in the latest layout. You’ll be crowded on the short end of the island.

Whichever one you use, move the prep sink away from the edge of the island.