Why not get a Miele?

I considered Miele but going with the whole suite for Thermador. The professional oven and range top fit our needs... Miele oven is all digital, we don't like that. We like the knobs... not touch digital.

Gotcha. And I guess when you said you’re not sure the star is worth the extra $$, you’re talking about the Star-Sapphire d/w, which I’d never even heard of until I went to the Thermador site just now. If I were set on buying all Thermador appliances, I’d buy it because it is the most $$ and has the most “stuff.” I like stuff. :)

We were quoted the Topaz by salesperson, he too saw best value in that one. With 4 to pick from with three with different $ up charges. I rather put the extra $$ flash in a fancy toto washlet toilet with the works ;) over a blue light d/w... ha ha

The light inside, which comes with Sapphire and star Sapphire, is nice to have but probably not worth the extra $200 upgrade. I got a steam range which gives the Sapphire "free." I'd say topaz is probably best value.

I recently got a Bosch 800 series. I wanted the 3rd rack and had to have a water softener. I don’t think you could go wrong with any of them. They all clean dishes beautifully.

I looked at the Thermadors to replace one of mine. I needed panel ready and it came down to the Bosch Benchmark or a Thermador Sapphire or Star Sapphire to get the features I wanted and the racking I liked best. Of the Thermador, we felt the Sapphire was the best balanced option --- that would be my pick but consider the racking differences and chose the option that works best for your use. The cycles and such should be good for nearly anyone when you get to that level. If you have a special need, you would know i and wouldn't be asking.

To be fair, we got the Benchmark, but it was a toss up and the Benchmark was less. In your case, it would bee the Sapphire.

FYI, Miele makes ovens with knobs :-).

https://www.mieleusa.com/domestic/convection-ovens-1451.htm?mat=10773320&name=H_6281_BP

https://www.mieleusa.com/domestic/convection-ovens-1451.htm?mat=09769420&name=H_6180_BP

Like Michelle and others mentioned, I also found best value in the topaz. I would have opted for the Bosh benchmark dishwashers but I wanted my handles to match the fridge. There is something about the fit and finish of the Thermador pro style that I really like, and it's mostly in the feel. Can't put my finger on why.

I got whichever one comes free with a range. It cleans great - what more do I want? (I do wish it had the top third rack.)

I do love the top rack. I really needed the water softener- we’re on well water and it’s HARD. Dishes come out perfect. Bosch has a 300 series with the softener feature in case anyone’s on a strict budget. I had a lower end Bosch for 10 years in my old house. Never had an issue. Can’t go wrong with the free dishwasher!

According to the online specs, Emerald does not. Topaz does. I would check Sapphire and Star-Sapphire but I see no reason they wouldn't if Topaz does.

ETA - Sapphire and Star-Sapphire do as well. So only Emerald does not have a softener.

I purchased the Thermador DWHD650WPR dishwasher in November 2020. I've been using for 7 months. It's terrible, doesn't clean the dishes, doesn't dry the dishes, the wash cylces are extremely long. Very bad value for the high price tag. 0 out of 10 score.

Is it installed correctly with regards to the high loop and drain?

Are you using the recommended detergent?

Are you using rinse aid?

What temperature is your water heater set for?

Do you have hard water?

Are you making sure not to pre-rinse too much?

Tx for getting back. The water here is hard, I don't pre-rinse much, I don't know how or where to set the temperature. I use cascade detergent, I'll try a rinse aid. I had the machine installed by a trusted installer. The only good thing is that the machine is quiet.

We have had the Thermador DWHD870W* for about year now, after getting it as a floor model. We have been happy with its performance so far, and I love the design of the third rack for my smaller cooking utensils.

Thermador produced their dishwashers first. Later, Bosch bought Thermador and patterned their dishwashers after the Thermador design. I've owned the Sapphire for many years and love it. I have had the E15 error come up recently. The tech replaced the switch/sensor in the bottom that prevents the machine from flooding the floor. It was old at that point. Works perfectly again.