Questions about Loba Invisible & Supra
cac546
6 years ago
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Extra Matte Floor Issues? (Loba 2K Invisible Protect)
Comments (24)The training of the pro will always dictate the level the product will perform. Loba products are very expensive. As soon as a pro uses it exclusively then you are working with a HIGH END pro with outstanding training. No one voluntarily works with **EXPENSIVE product if they can't get it to work. The hardener is the stuff that makes things cure quickly. The faster it cures the faster it becomes 'tough'. In theory, Loba 2K Supra AT can be used without the hardener but it takes over 1 MONTH to reach final hardness (2 coats = 30 days; 3 coats = 60 days or more). If someone believes they can make something 'go further' by mis-managing the LABRATORY produced mixture is often considered a pretender. That being said, there are MANY uses for the products without the hardener...but only the very well educated high-end pros (the one's who made it through College or University but chose to work with their hands) will grasp the subtleties of 'off-label' uses....See MoreLoba 2K Supra A.T. coating questions
Comments (44)Actually, I think you might be fine to move forward with your final 2 coats of Loba 2K Supra AT (for 3 coats total). One of the exceptions to this is if you need something to prevent side bonding with your wood. Look up side bonding and then figure out if you think it is going to be a problem for you in your climate. That's the main thing that the WS EasyPrime prevents is side bonding; in addition, it brings out a rich wood color and helps the first coat of Supra AT to go on more evenly. If you like the color that you have now and side bonding is not a huge concern, then you would probably be better off to move forward rather than trying to sand that floor down again as that could create some brand new issues for you. It's probably not the end of the world that you skipped the hardener on the first coat. If anything, it might make the upper two layers a little more prone to impact, but this coating has a lot of flex built into it, and if you can live with the risk, it might be acceptable for your application. If this is an expensive home with a heavy grand piano or big dogs with claws, then reconsider leaving that first coat unhardened. Also, if this is an area where heavy appliances will be moved or set, I would also consider a re-do. Although I've worked a lot with WS EasyPrime and Loba 2K Supra AT, I'm not a professional, and Loba has an excellent customer service department, at least in the USA where I have utilized it, so if you are able to call and talk to a company representative, that would be the best option for professional advice on your situation. You may find it interesting to know that Loba makes a product called 2K InvisibleProtect AT which is designed to be used alone, without primer, in order to keep the wood as natural a color as possible. Some people have had issues trying to apply InvisibleProtect AT without a primer first, but it can be done. The 2K Supra AT is not usually used for this because it does impart more of a darkening effect than the InvisibleProtect AT--therefore primer doesn't take away from the final effect when Supra AT is used, and there are benefits to primer (side bonding prevention mainly), so it is standard procedure to use the WS EasyPrime under Supra AT. Note that Supra AT is overall more durable than InvisibleProtect AT, though both are outstanding finishes....See MoreHow to get rid of bubbles in Loba 2K Supra AT?
Comments (17)@Chelsea Ivers I have only done door panels on sides of boxes, and they turned out reasonably well, but I am still having problems perfecting my finishing method. The doors and drawer fronts will be the next things I tackle. My latest issue is pock marks, otherwise known as fisheyes, that I think are appearing due to excessive humidity. I have created an enclosed painting booth that tends to trap vapor as it evaporates from the coating, and during a rainy week here where I live, I could not control the pock marks appearing in all layers of Loba 2K Supra AT even with opening a couple of windows that adjoin the booth. The WS EasyPrime did not have this issue, but again, that was the first layer, and successive coats in the 4-coat system released more humidity into the air. Other things can cause fisheyes like excessively thick coats or improper temperatures of the air and substrates, but I believe in my case it is humidity and will be trying to address this going forward with a robust dehumidifier inside the painting booth. I would be happy to personally speak to you about the process, but it would really be better if you started your own thread and posted questions there so that everyone searching for Loba application information in the future could benefit. Alternately, I just switched my settings over to allow you to be able to message me privately, but if I don't hear from you, I'll be switching that back off by the end of January 2021. You should be nervous, actually! This is a terrible coating to apply on cabinetry, and I highly encourage you to select a different finish! I'm in the middle of a project so already committed, but many times during the 16 coats I have already done with 6 to 8 hours of prep for each coat (with the exception of the hot coat of Supra 1 hour after primer) and at least half of the work left to go for a small kitchen, I have regretted ever signing up for this monumental task. If you haven't read my other thread on Loba for cabinetry and followed the links within the posts there, it would be of benefit to you: https://www.houzz.com/discussions/5927222/loba-2k-supra-a-t-coating-questions#n=26 If you haven't yet purchased your Loba products, please visit the Envirolak website and check out their clear coat finishes. Envirolak would be much more suited to a cabinetry application. Envirolak is based in Canada and is gaining a solid reputation for robust, one-part waterborne coatings, including clear coats, that are created to be brushed and rolled on. If you don't have a dealer near you, you may contact Envirolak directly, and they'll be able to work with you to get their products. This would be the next-best thing in durability to a catalyzed 2K (two-part) finish such as the Loba 2K Supra A.T. Another alternative would be General Finishes. They do some beautiful one-part waterborne clear coats that are probably not as resilient as Envirolak's but are easy to apply with brush and roller, and many people who have posted in the Houzz forum have used General Finishes to satisfactorily coat their cabinetry projects. Here is one thread with more information about that: https://www.houzz.com/discussions/5633128/most-natural-matte-satin-finish-white-oak-cabinets#n=33 One of the first problems you will encounter with Loba 2K Supra A.T., or indeed any of Loba's 2K coatings, is that they begin to set up at lightning speed. You must lay the coating down and walk off and leave it within no more than 10 minutes per piece, and really more like 3 minutes per each section of each piece. The learning curve is steep, and I'm still having problems getting my coating to lay down without brush marks as the quick drying occurs. Another problem you will encounter with Loba's products is that they are formulated with no vertical hang properties. All the leveling properties are horizontally self-leveling. So, any time you have something other than a perfectly flat surface, the Loba coating will drip, run, or puddle. I have created a complex system of taping off low-lying areas, then wiping the puddles with a microfiber cloth, then removing the tape with care not to drip onto finished sections, then painting the previously taped areas, then sponging off more puddles, then wiping out more puddles with craft swabs. This all happens within seconds as I move quickly with no wasted motion as the coating is already flash drying in surrounding areas. The process is difficult, stressful, and not entirely successful as I have many surface blemishes throughout the project thus far. I have had to coat each plane separately using several rounds of Frog Tape with plastic draping to mask off non-working sides. Please, if you have any other options, go with the other options. The best thing would be to order prefinished cabinetry or to have a professional spray the project with Milesi or Renner. You may learn more about professional spraying options at this group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/diycabinetrefinishing The Loba 2K Supra A.T. with a 4-coat system including WS EasyPrime primer as the first coat is basically impervious. You'll never be able to refinish your cabinetry pieces unless they are flat surfaces that can be mechanically sanded. It's that tough. You may even have a hard time hand sanding between layers prior to full cure due to the incredible resilience. It's like dipping everything in plastic. The finish is beautiful, but I think in most cases that the durability is overkill for cabinetry. Loba's 2K products are designed to last 20 years on a flooring surface that you walk on during those decades. The Envirolak or General Finishes one-part waterborne products should give you plenty of years of wear without the headache of dealing with 2K application concerns. I hope this is helpful to you. If you would like to start a new thread with your own project and photos, please be sure to link it back here so we can follow and comment on your new thread....See MoreLoba 2K Invisible Protect on rift white oak floors - project summary
Comments (5)ngifford87, my use case is much lighter than yours - I don't have kids or pets (it's all older adults here). If you haven't already done so, you should check out Mommy to the Max's blog / more specifically, check out the reader comments on her Loba install there may be some relevant comments for you. https://www.mommytomax.com/natural-looking-white-oak-floors/ Also, check with your regional Loba rep - our rep, Adam Morin, was extremely helpful. He even made a visit to my home during the floor installation phase and showed me the different Loba products on some of my wood floor samples. Adam recommended the installer (very important to find a trained and experienced Loba installer). Back to answering your questions: The finish has been very strong with no issues on delamination or peeling/uplift. It has been resilent to food and household chemical droppings/spills. No stains at all (I have wood floors in my kitchen). I'd say it is a tougher finish than the Bona commerical finish I had on my previous floors. I've had no need for touch ups. It is very easy to clean (I use the Loba spray product and a bona mop). I don't allow shoes in my home - so, it's bare feet, socks or house shoes only. Workers must wear shoe protection or take off their shoes/boots. I don't believe shoes would be a problem for the finish, it is just so much easier to keep the floors clean when people aren't tracking in dirt and grime. Do know that this Loba finish leaves a slight feeling of texture from the wood - it is not a glass smooth finish. I like the finish and feel of the finish quite a bit. I've had some very slight fading - which is only noticeable when furniture or rugs are moved. I waited almost 1 year to put down a rug in my front bedroom. After a few months, I lifted the rug up and I can see a very, very slight difference between where the rug is and the rest of the wood floor. I also had a Chilewich door mat at the entrance and there is a very slight difference there as well. I do have a lot of large windows in my home / and the front door has large glass inserts. Possibly it is the Loba product or it could be the lighter color (and no stain) - or maybe it's a combination of both. Again, I don't believe anyone coming into my home would see the difference (somewhat looks like a slight shadow on the floor / if the Chilewich mat is moved) If you don't rearange your furniture or rugs often, I'd say it isn't an issue. BTW - I have seen MUCH, MUCH worse fading on other wood floors (e.g., sunlight rays burn-in. None of that happening on my floors). All finishes do fade when exposed to lots of sunlight, I expect. I'm very, very pleased with my Loba floors and would definitely use the product again. If going with the same Loba product, I recommend 3 coats vs 2 coats (I have 3 coats on my floors)....See MoreAglitter
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