Keep or throw away Princess Alexandra of Kent roses?

6 years ago

I feel like replacing 3x PAoK roses, having grown it for 3-4 years. I need to make room for other roses coming in this winter: Cressida, Constance Spry, Evelyn and Veterans Honor.

Now I can understand why another member on this forum hated this rose. It just doesn't bloom profusely; has weak neck that makes the bloom nod downwards. The bloom form is not always beautiful, upright or perfect like the photos posted on David Austin's website. Mine looked too blousy, and messy and it's not really a pink rose!

But every time I visited David Austin's website or watched the Youtube clip of this rose posted by shinichi rose , I feel that "one day" my Princess Alexandra of Kent roses might look as perfect as them. Or am I dreaming here? How can I make it prolific bloom machine with strong neck?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_bWWxfownE

Featured Answer

jo_pyeweed (z9 SF Bay Area)

6 years ago

My two PAoKs are 5 years old, and are grafted on Dr. Huey. They have a spectacular spring flush and very modest repeat the rest of the year. I see stronger repeat if I can get around to doing a hard pruning after the spring flush. I also suspect that the bushes would benefit from my giving them more water than I can during the summer months.

As PAoK was in Nanadoll’s garden, mine are thugs too. They are both 10’ wide and 5’ tall. I have had to take out roses on either side of them as I just couldn’t get them to stay less than 10’ wide.

I second Nanadoll’s suggestion to get rid of two and keep one, Tangles.

Nanadoll - I did read in another post that you had gotten rid of your PAoK. Sorry that she didn’t do well for you. I finally removed my once-blooming-only-at-the-tips gigantic Crown Princess Margareta, and it was liberating.

HY - your garden is lovely! My PAoKs started throwing out thick basal canes a few months after being planted. Looks like yours are starting to do that. You will likely find that the canes will not be as floppy as before.

A few pics from my garden (mild winters, cool,dry summers, very windy).

PAoK last April:

The other one - pic taken in May:

Close-up:

In October, when the color does shift towards coral:

Comments (44)

Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
6 years ago
I have seen lovely photos of it on occasion. Mine was not great here yet (too coral) but I'm giving it another year.
nanadollZ7 SWIdaho
6 years ago
I think that PAoK hating forum member was me, sad to say. First of all, she was huge, and a big thug, always intimidating neighbor Munstead Wood, in spite of my constant trimming of PAoK. After a big spring show, PAoK didn't bloom a lot, but worst of all, when the heat set in, her blooms turned a nasty bright coral and shrunk down a few sizes. There were no weak necks, though. I hope I can find a photo of this to show. So last summer, I dug her out, and it took two days. She grew on a slight slope, and her roots went down three levels and included many anchor roots. I replaced her with another Munstead Wood, and I may add a Twilight Zone (tall and skinny) to fill in the bed. Could you remove two of your PAoKs? That would free up some room for the new incoming roses, but allow you to give the remaining PAoK one more chance to improve. I think I grew mine for about four years. She never changed. Diane

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Well, Lilyfinch, APdL hasn't turned out to be a fabulous rose like Bishop's Castle, but I suspect that it is not a problem with the plant, but a problem with my climate or where it is planted. Keep in mind that roses tend to grow very slowly for me (for example Abraham Darby is still quite short for me but for many people, it can be a climber). My Alexandra, Princesse de Luxembourg is planted right next to Abe, and still has only 3 basals, and those are not well branched and only about 2 feet tall. She doesn't look much like the photo that Vaporvac posted above. She is also one of the roses that were planted at the edge of the drip zone of Vlad the Impaler (English Hawthorn), under which the roses that were planted failed to grow entirely ("the Zone of Death"). The flowers are quite large, about 4 inches across here, but I bet they would be quite a bit larger in a wetter climate like yours. To put it in perspective, the flowers are larger than Abraham Darby, and twice the size of Alnwick Castle. They are probably a little less than twice the size of Souvenir de la Malmaison that grows in the local rose garden. Her colors are a touch brighter than SdlM as well. The flower form is more structured and fuller than Sharifa Asma, and has more durable petals, many more than SdlM. Her flowers do have a worthwhile fragrance, but not as strong as Sharifa and none of the beer-like quality of SdlM. Flowers open rather flat, not cupped. She's not a "covered in flowers" type of plant, but she is not particularly stingy either. The flowering is more steady. For me, she's not overflowing with growth, but I suspect that in a lower elevation with more water and humidity (and without the overhanging Vlad) she would be a great plant. I'm going to try to pamper her a bit more this year and see if ishe takes off, now that I've removed Vlad. I think that for you, she would be worth a try if you like the flower form and color and want a rose with a more traditional fragrance than SdlM. Again, don't take my experience too seriously, because my conditions are particularly challenging, but I like her enough to keep trying to see if I can get her to grow better in my garden. From September 2018 after the huge hailstorm ripped up the leaves: click to embiggen Peter Kukielski describes it in his book as tall and arching or spreading 5-7 feet and vigorous and fragrant. I'm not saying this to try to convince you to get her, but just that my experience with her is probably not a good example. Also worth mentioning is that in his book, the photographs make her look like an HT, but in my garden, she is not very HT-like.
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Diane, I'm so glad to see you still have your sense of humor in the face of extraordinary obstacles this season. Things are pretty awful here, too. I haven't even deadheaded all the roses from their first flush, indeed, they didn't even get pruned to begin with. Such high hopes throughout winter, then plans fell flat. The good side of it is that it can only get better. Next year will be our year! Instead of long canes shooting straight up as most young Austins do, PAoK's long canes reached out along the ground, curving and squiggling all over the place among the other roses as if they were searching for something. You may make 'beached octopus' yours as I have made 'bloomiest' an oft used word of mine. I am honored.
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Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
6 years ago
A sad story!
HY aka NewbieRoseLover
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
Oh, don't get rid of her! She's gorgeous! :-) She's one of my favourites in my new garden - her blooms are massive, so they're easily seen from far away and they really are a "glowing pink".

BUT - my experience might not be worth much - haha! I've only started gardening 8 months ago and only got my new roses 4 months ago - so I'm probably still in the honeymoon phase. But for what it's worth, here's my experience with PAOK so far...

Mine is still young (2yrs), so she's not a big bush yet (about 3 feet tall) but she's been one of the most vigorous of the Austins I planted, constantly putting on new growth & buds (she's grafted on Fort). And she doesn't mind the heat/direct sun - her blooms don't fry (we're in mid-summer now in Australia, with very intense sun and 30+ C (90+ F) on most days) and they last for a couple of days, both on the bush & in the vase.

I don't think she has "weak necks" as such - the blooms themselves are actually quite upright compared to some other Austins - but she has very lax canes, which flop everywhere. So I've had to tie her up to bamboo stakes, especially as mine is planted at the edge of the (very narrow!) bed and so she keeps arching out over the path. But I don't mind using a few judicious stakes here & there, plus I quite like the wild, romantic way she splays out over the edge... as you can see here :-)

(Of course, I'm very new to roses so maybe my standards aren't high enough - haha! I get excited if I get 1 bloom, so I don't expect a big bush covered in flowers, like I've seen some members get here in their gardens. My definition of "bloom profusely" is probably very different to yours ;-) Also, I like the natural, overgrown cottage garden look so I don't mind if my rose bushes aren't perfectly symmetrical, etc.)

The bloom colour is very changeable, though, I agree - the buds start off bright coral red but as they open, they turn warm pink - and then finally fade to lilac. It makes the bush very interesting, I think, as there are blooms of different colours on it all the time. You can see blooms at different stages & in different colours in this photo (all the blooms/buds are PAOK. The crazy octopus cane in the very back is Lady of Shalott planted to the left, who decided she wanted to join Nahema on the trellis - LOL!).

You can also see a thick basal cane from PAOK on the right side of bush (just in front of the trellis) that SHOT
up almost 3 feet in a few days and it's already thicker than my thumb - I
was quite shocked by that. (It's why I love my Austins so much - they
grow so fast & are constantly putting out new growth & buds & blooming - it's really fun & full of
surprises). I'm staking this new basal cane upright now in the hope that once
it hardens, it will be stiffer and not flop over so much.

~ HY
HY aka NewbieRoseLover
6 years ago
Yikes! I just read Nanodoll's post and now I'm terrified - LOL!

GULP. I hope I'm not going to be pulling my PAOK out in a few years too...
HY aka NewbieRoseLover
6 years ago
OMG! OMG! Jo - I'm swooning here!!!!!

If my PAOK produces half as many blooms as yours, I think I'll die of delight!

OMG... I can't get over your first picture! Now THAT is "bloom profusely"!!!! And the close-up - so many blooms in there! When I take close up pictures of my roses, I'm lucky to get 2 blooms in the frame - haha!

Your garden looks like absolute heaven to me - just the PERFECT garden, with a mix of other plants & flowers, not just roses, and all rambling at different heights in a natural way...

Sigh.... if only mine will be as beautiful as yours one day... :-)

~ HY

ps. what's the little purple flower you're growing with PAOK? And the pale green/while one?
Tangles Long
Original Author
6 years ago
Goodness me ! Thanks for showing all those beautiful photos of PAOK!! Now I feel like I don't want to get rid of her. I'll probably give her another year.

What do you guys feed her with? I think its the way I prune my roses- I only dead head her very lightly which might be reason for weak necks.
jo_pyeweed (z9 SF Bay Area)
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
HY - you are so sweet, and I am absolutely flattered. But my 5 year old garden is a mess and is very messy. The drought in California put a damper on my garden plans and I have areas that are partially dug up and as yet unplanted. I cunningly don’t show the bad parts!

Now, your garden - I have been enjoying the pics you have been sharing, so very lovely. I love what you did with the side yard - you clearly have an eye for beauty; I am a plonker. And, your hollyhocks - just gorgeous.

The purple is geranium ‘Rozanne’ and the white flowers are annuals which reseed - Minoan Lace. I love both.

Tangles - I meant to ask you what zone you are in and what your general location is. And, is your PAoK grafted or own-root?

I added some 10-10-10 into and around the planting holes when I first put in the PAoKs back in 2014 but have not fed them since - I have been too scared to! But, this year I plan to - at least some alfalfa and perhaps a dose of liquid fertilizer after the spring flush.

Jo
HY aka NewbieRoseLover
6 years ago
Tangles - my PAOK has only been planted 4 months (in early summer) and my garden is new, so I haven't really experienced all the seasons yet and I haven't had to prune her other than deadheading.

My soil is very sandy so it's heavily amended with sheep manure & compost + a bit of clay. And I mulched with a thick layer of dried sheep manure when I first planted, followed by a layer of lupin mulch. I haven't fed her anything else - oh, I do try to remember to give some Seasol (seaweed tonic) every fortnight. That is supposed to thicken cell walls and help strengthen roots & improve disease & heat & drought resistance.. do you get that where you are?

What my PAOK does get is copious amounts of water. She (and all my roses) are on drip irrigation for deep watering twice a week and I also water by hand every day if it's hotter than 30C (90F) - the owner of the rose nursery told me the secret of success in Western Australia is to water every day for the first year your rose is establishing and I'm following his instructions religiously! ;-)

By the way, is yours grafted or own root? From what I've read & learnt on other posts, it seems like that makes a big difference to vigour sometimes?

~ HY
HY aka NewbieRoseLover
6 years ago
Aww, thanks, Jo! We're beginning to sound like a sickening mutual admiration society - haha! - but honestly, your garden is NOT a mess!! Or if it is, it's certainly my kind of mess! :-) Even if I could have 1 corner looking like yours, I'd be ecstatic.

I think part of the problem is that I'm a very impatient person and I want my garden to look lush & full & blooming to the hilt - the way more mature gardens look - but I want it now!! LOL. (And I know I'm already lucky that I live in Australia where we have lots of sunshine, mild winters and a long growing season - so things seem to grow really well and really fast here. I sometimes think I'd really struggle if I'd started gardening somewhere with much cooler temperatures and slower growth and I had to suffer frustrations like winter dieback)

Oh, thanks - I will look up 'Rozanne' and Minoan Lace. I hope they're available in Australia! I'm still learning the names of lots of plants and every visit to the garden centre is still like a huge treat! :-)

(My problem is, I want to plant one of everything - just to try it - but I'm rapidly running out of space in my tiny suburban garden!)

~ HY
Lisa Adams
6 years ago
I’ve also admired PAOK, but Diane’s experience saved me. Thanks Diane! Everything grows huge here, and I’m sure she would have been no exception. She is gorgeous, however. I’m still waiting for that “magic pill” that will stop the rose from growing any larger, while still allowing it to pump out the blooms. I’m not going to be holding my breath.

Jo, your photos are lovely! I grow the same fillers you mentioned. I’m pulling up Minoan Lace seedlings by the handfuls. They’ve come up by the hundreds. The other name for them is Orlaya grandiflora, yes? I just love it. They make wonderful cut flowers, too. Is the tiny flowered geranium I spy in your first photo, ‘Bill Wallis’? I grow that geranium, as well. It self sows politely, and seems more drought tolerant. You seem to grow many of my favorites! No wonder I love your pictures so much.

HY, it’s too bad I can’t send seed seeds to Australia. You like the same ones, and I’ve got oodles! Oh! That reminds me. I need to send seeds to Jin. I’m SO forgetful. Lisa
Plumeria Girl (Florida ,9b)
6 years ago
That's okay Lisa. I am not in any rush. Thank you :)

Jin
sultry_jasmine_nights (Florida-9a-ish)
6 years ago
Mine doesn't get the coral tones here. Just big yummy cupcake blooms. The plant does get huge.
Lisa Adams
6 years ago
She IS gorgeous! If I had the space, I’d order her in a flash! Lisa
jo_pyeweed (z9 SF Bay Area)
6 years ago
“Big yummy cupcake blooms” is absolutely right! I can’t recall if I mentioned fragrance but PAoK has an amazing fragrance when conditions are right. That’s not often in my garden unfortunately but when it is - icing on the, um, cupcake.

Lisa - good eye! That’s indeed Bill Wallis. So very lovely and floriferous but a rampant reseeder in my garden. The first few years I was delighted; I am getting a little annoyed now. And again you are right - Minoan Lace is Orlaya grandiflora. What else do you use for fillers?

HY - I have been fighting the urge to come back home with one plant each of everything new I see in a nursery for years....

Jo
RoseannRG Utah, Utah County 7A
5 years ago
Is PAOK good as a cut rose? Do her blooms last long?
User
5 years ago

Our PAOK.
Plumeria Girl (Florida ,9b)
5 years ago
Biff, they are gorgeous. How many did you planted in a row like that ?
jin
User
5 years ago
last modified: 5 years ago
Plumeria girl. Howdy to Florida and thanks for your kind words. There are 4 in a row right now. It will have 5 when it's finished. I really like paok. Does really well here ( in the desert) and the fragrance is xcellent!
Krista_5NY
5 years ago
It does make a good cut flower, but like many of the Austins, the petals can wilt in my garden setting.
HU-802245981
3 years ago
Gorgeous PAOK!
KittyNYz6
3 years ago
Hi,

Better late than never.... reply to you 3 yrs ago! Oops! Did you keep A Kent rose or dispose?

Many lovely photos of Alex. Of Kent from all of you! I ordered her for spring 2021 and she was my favorite for DA prolific rose blooming! I read she has coral to pink blooms so I am prepared! I am amazed that the rose could get 10 ft wide maybe in warm climates like CA, Florida or Australia? I live in NY zone 6, so only hope she grows well as possible.

DA are often a little gangly so I just expect it and plant them in areas where it wouldn’t matter... like sides and back of yar.d.

If you do feel a rose doesn’t grow as you like and you want to try something else, I’d just remove it, pot it and give it away as I plan to give a few away this spring! Neighbors love free gifts!! Prune it nice, pot it w/a bow and give generously! May start your neighbors on a new hobby as I did once.

Enjoy the coming spring!!!

Happy Gardens,

Kitty
Ann-SoCalZ10b SunStZ22
3 years ago
Kitty: I’ve been debating about this one for my Southern California Garden. I currently have Princess Anne... my first and only DA rose. Hoping for good things from her as she’s planted in a prime spot but right now just mostly long gangly canes. I planted her last spring. love your idea of potting up and giving roses as a gift. I have a few roses I need to give away.
Ann-SoCalZ10b SunStZ22
3 years ago
Tangles Long: I’m so curious to know... is Princess Alexandria of Kent still in your garden? Would love to hear an update on what you decided to do.
Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
3 years ago
Mine got decimated by voles last Winter, just when I'm starting to love it. I'm hoping it regrows from the roots since I had to cut the canes so far back. I should have taken a photo of the damage before cutting it off for my own records at least.
noseometer...(7A, SZ10, Albuquerque)
last year
I was regretting getting PAoK last year, but this year she is just gorgeous so far.
Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
last year
Mine is regrowing too, Nose. Yours looks gorgeous.
sanjosegardener Zone 9b
last year
So excited to have found a forum for PAOK! I ordered my first and ever DA bareroot roses in march. PAOK is the fastest growing and the flowers are blooming already!!! I absolutely love the color, it is a glowing pink, but the petals seem to be wilting as the flower blooms. Any advice on the cause of this would be helpful. sharing pics of the bareroot stock in March and now.
Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
last year
Where are you? Water more.
sanjosegardener Zone 9b
last year
@Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR Hi Sheila, I am in zone 9b. I have been watering the roses every 2-3 days. Should I change to a daily watering routine?
Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
last year
Here, emitters can clog. Make sure your system is watering this rose adequately. One hr? 2 or 4 gallons? I have a moisture meter to help me. You can dig down and see if the soil is moist.

So much depends on the weather. I do water daily when it gets really hot.
noseometer...(7A, SZ10, Albuquerque)
last year
@Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR - good luck in getting your PAoK to grow back after the vole attack. Nasty voles!

PAoK is beautiful this spring, but there is hardly any fragrance. All I get is wet paper towel smell. Does anyone get fragrance? I hope she doesn‘t turn that strident coral in the summer. that would be a big downer.
Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
last year
last modified: last year
Yes, noseometer! PAoKent is growing back.
librarian_gardner_8b_pnw
last year
Beautiful! And great news, Sheila.

Noseo, my PAoK is fragrant this year. But my Young Lycidas isn't giving me the fragrance that i remember from last year. Our weather is different than it was last May...maybe that's it or me?
Diane Brakefield
last year
At least you guys have blooms. I'm still waiting. Watch out for strident coral--haha. Diane
KittyNYz6
last year
last modified: last year
@sanjosegardener Zone 9b

I used to live in Los Angelis and loved my rose gardening there. In spring, summer, fall spriklers went on every day on grass/roses for 10 minutes each line. Roses will tell you they need water if they are wilting.

Also, if your soil is clay it may need amended w/ nutrient rich soil and mulched to retain moisture for the roses. It soil is drying out quckly mulch will help keep mousture in.
KittyNYz6
last year
last modified: last year
I love my vigorous growing PAOK. She was a favorite when I first bought her spring 2021. She was pruned back a lot after my NY winter, but has grown quickly more than many of my roses-so considered a good DA to aquire for NY gardens as I need vigorous hardy roses!!! I enjoyed her blooms in her first year 2021 & look forward to them this year. I do see all my roses starting bigger this year & will be filling up my beds…. but dont see her stretchibg 10 ft wide-Yikes!

I do remember in CA that roses grew so tall I just loved to cut back 4 ft canes!!!! Ridiculoudly too much growth! So in NY all my roses are smaller than the CA, Florida, and Idaho rosarians! Even some climbers of mine are only 2-3 ft right now., But I am happy to see them all groe to 4-5 fy bushes and 10 ft climbers when summer tajes off! So I’ll be pouring on the fertilizers!!!!!

Anyway, Princess Alexandria of Kent is a keeper for me and highly recommended to Eastern gardners & cooler areas!!!! And to other warm regions who like taller/wider roses Lol!

Her colors seemed pretty pinks w/ my NY weather-it’s not really too hot in summer w/mostly some 70-80F & rains plenty so her truer pink shades I see more, than coral.

i ordered PAOK having in mind an English court of roses: Princess Alexandria of Kent, Princess Anne, Anne Boleyn, Queen Elizabeth. Those are my English Court collection now….

Queen Elizabeth rose is next to her mother, Anne Boleyn rose, in my garden!! The painter’s Leonardo da Vinci rose & Michelangelo rose stand on either side to glorify them! The Princesses are playing in other places of my gardens.

PRINCESS ALEXANDRIA OF KENT
rosesmi5a
last year
Kitty, I love the idea of an English court of roses! Now that I think about it, David Austin hasn't name any roses after the Kings...well, there's The Prince, but he was a weak grower here. Hmm...
noseometer...(7A, SZ10, Albuquerque)
last year
Wow, Sheila, that’s a lot of growth, even growing in the middle of other plants. just what I need in my garden.

Nice blooms, Kitty! and fun idea. Are there any non-Austins named after kings?
Diane Brakefield
last year

The Prince is not a weak grower here and is in constant bloom. Downside is dry heat he doesn't like' and the thrips love him in spring. Diane
librarian_gardner_8b_pnw
last year
I've found that my own root PAoK has naked legs, so I planted some companions (chives, foxglove and nigella) and they're all looking good together. PAoK is a tall rose here. I'm 5'9 and many of her blooms are at my nose level.

You can see that she does get some blackspot in our cool and very wet PNW weather.

Diane, your The Prince is gorgeous 😍
DLEverette_NC_Zone7b
last year
last modified: last year
@librarian_gardner_8b_pnw Mine is the same with the bare legs. All the growth is at the top. I'm wondering if I didn't prune it back far enough this spring. I left it at 2ft. I may take it back to 12-15in next season.

@Tangles Long I just saw the youtube video and it wow......it totally blew my mind! I've only seen pictures of this on DA's website (they've since removed it). Pictures/videos like this are the reason I planted a hedge of PAOK in the first place in 2018. My hedge is still very leggy, but it did bloom frequently this year. Until I saw that video, I started to think this kind of display isn't possible in reality. Boy, was I wrong!

To top it off, @jo_pyeweed (z9 SF Bay Area)'s pictures are stunning too! I really REALLY want this type of display from PAOK, and really any rose in my garden. It's not enough to have pretty blooms any more. I want full and lush shrubs, even when they're not in bloom.

I've been looking into how to make that happen, and I think it really boils down to hard pruning in warmer zones and buying grafted. I buy own root exclusively, and every picture I see of a bushy rose, it is one that is grafted. I don't think that's a coincidence, since grafted roses can offer a more uniform experience across many different conditions and rose types. For that reason, I think I may transition to deliberately growing more in pots, since soil conditions are more uniform. (Or I just need to be more patient, since I'm dealing with own root roses lol)

@noseometer...(7A, SZ10, Albuquerque) Fragrance is the only thing that disappoints me so far with this rose. It's present, but not strong at all. I've read that it's really strong and that it takes a few years to develop it's power. I've had mine for 4 years and it's only a lite fragrance so far. Nothing really blows me away like the website and stories would suggest.

I really did a nerdy ramble here haha, but this thread really speaks to many of my sentiments around growing roses. I want to look outside or walk around and see what I've seen in this thread all the time!
noseometer...(7A, SZ10, Albuquerque)
10 months ago
This year, the fragrance of my PAoK is much better, about on par with my Abe. I’ll have to see how she does this year when the heat really sets in, but this year I’m loving my PAoK. I’m glad I didn’t remove her, as I was tempted to do.

Keep or throw away Princess Alexandra of Kent roses?

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