Shaw 3/8 engineered glued over osb... ? Cork underlay?

6 years ago

last modified: 6 years ago

So here is the situation. I have osb on my 2nd floor and feel stuck using the 3/8 shaw engineered epic 5" hickory that came with the first floor (surprisingly it wears and feels like iron actually even though I wouldn't pick it). An experienced installation co wants to glue it down with Fortane as permitted by Shaw...or we will also glue 6mm acousticork as permitted by shaw for sound dampening. I'd rather keep my ugly carpet than float the floor and have it sound hollow so floating is outterly. I was told by another installer that stapling is out.

I am reading so many conflicting things about gluing over osb. I am leaning toward gluing over 6mm cork glued down since the drywall in this shoddy new construction is paper thin.

Any experts out there see any red flags?

PS this is a dry area and I'll never change the flooring. And PS my osb squeaks like heck right now in one room

Thanks!

Featured Answer

PRO

Cinar Interiors, Inc.

6 years ago

Add a layer of luan plywood 1/4" and glue. Use a urethane glue. Screw down the luan, no nails.

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Comments (17)

User
6 years ago
Get rid of the too thin OSB and squeaks by instaLLING ply underlayment. Then staple.
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helbrod
Original Author
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
Unfortunately that isn't an option for a lot of reasons....I thought about applying plywood over the osb but I'm not sure how that will help firm up the osb ... not that it only pops in one room. Wonder if I need to scrap this project. Sad.

I do note that on the first floor, which is over a crawl space, they glued over osb and it sounds great.
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I realize that. It's actually a bit more complicated. These flakes (def: A flat thin piece or layer; a chip.), not gouges (def: A groove or hole scooped with or as if with such a chisel.) actually showed up a year ago. Because of extended cancer treatment away from home, we are only now able to address them. So, although we bought the floor 5 years ago, the flakes appeared after 4 years. (and one year, no one was using the floor since we were away for treatment). "Wear through" was never defined to us (and is still not defined on the Cancork website) as "flaking." Again--a normal average person not trying to be deceptive by redefining words would never equate "wear through" with "flaking off." So we needed to refinish areas that are not high traffic after 4 years now? Because of water damage on another part of the floor due to a broken hose that had water on the floor for 10 minutes and buckled the flooring, we will be replacing the entire miserable thing. You just need to make sure that as you "counsel" these poor people on this site that you give them the entire story: Flaking = gouging= wear through to be expected Begin planning to refinish every 4 years even if your are extremely careful and the floor does not get a lot of wear The "super good" refinishing product is $180/gallon. You will need 3 coats the first time. Who knows how many the second? The warranty conflates the words "wear through" "flaking" and "gouging" so that Forba ensures nothing will be covered. Even with meticulous preparation and following of instructions the Loba might very well not adhere and will peel off requiring another $180/gallon reapplication, and Cancork and their former employees will blame the customer That's all. Just be honest.
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Just want to chime in here for those looking for the more "green" option: Green Building Supply sells a proprietary chemically-sensitive version of QuietWalk without the biocides/fungicides that make up the "antimicrobial" characteristics of conventional QuietWalk. (I confirmed this with MP Global.) I don't work for Green Building Supply or receive any commission or anything else. Just passing that along for those with chemically-sensitive household members! :) And @SJ McCarthy, I was just about to give up on QuietWalk and go with thin foam FloorMuffler Ultra Seal, since that's the only underlayment my local flooring store recommends (at 59 cents SF, hmm). Then I saw an old thread where you gave big thumbs up to QuietWalk. Several flooring stores told me FloorMuffler can't be beat for sound absorption, but my skeptical self wonders if it's more a matter that it's a higher profit margin for them vs. QuietWalk. I need to write a check for my flooring today---any last words of wisdom on QuietWalk vs FloorMuffler (over concrete slab, single story)? Thanks! @jfcwoodd too
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The 1.3 R value is HUGE on a floor. Imagine your concrete slab as a HUGE refrigerator. And imagine it is left with the door open and running full throttle 24/7 for DECADES. That's what a slab is. We call it a heat sink. Because heat SINKS into it (never to come back out). What you want to do is COMPARE the COST of the DriCore R and the TOTAL RENOVATION cost of the in-floor radiant heating. The 'extra' $1300 for the DriCore is ONLY what you pay for. Leave the heating in the home as it is. I'm not kidding. Us the DriCore to UPGRADE the insulation in the home. And continue using the heating system you have. Now compare the cost of the HYDRONIC heating system purchase and installation with the DriCore R. I'm going to guess there is a HUGE difference. If you do NOT install SOMETHING insulating over that slab, you are going to heat the refrigerator and the EARTH below it. You are going to make some worms VERY happy....nice and toasty. You must have some form of heat break. Gluing plywood to an old slab isn't going to get this done. And this is precisely why the cost of RETROFITTING a hydronic system over a slab is one of the MOST EXPENSIVE upgrades you can do. The cost to do this properly (which means removing an inch of concrete, adding an insulation barrier like cork and then adding the tubing and then pouring new concrete) is exceptionally expensive. Trying to figure out a DIY level hydronic heat retro-fit over concrete slab is very tough. You have already stated you will be adding 2" of flooring height. But where is the HEAT BREAK? The cost of heating a heat sink (your concrete) is VERY HIGH. You will not see any savings. It might even become more expensive. Who has 'sold you' on the retrofit hydronic heat over concrete slab??? I'm in Canada and have had people in Northern Saskatchewan (1 hour drive south of the Territories). They routinely reach -40 C (same as -40 F). The basement never reached 16 C (60 F) in the winter time. They added 6mm cork (1/4") over the basement slab then added 11mm cork flooring over that. The basement was the warmest space in their house. It sat at a comfortable 22 C (72 F) without any change in their lifestyle (setting on their thermostat sat at the same place all the time). I saved them $25,000 because they were going to do the hydronic heat (properly). Not bad for a day's work (talking on the phone with them = 4 hours). All they needed was a regular heat source and some INSULATION over the slab. The 6mm cork underlay = the same as the insulating foam in the DriCore R (1.3 increase). The 11mm cork floating floor = same again (another 1.3). A regular heat source PLUS insulation over cement = warm spaces PLUS reduced heating costs. Nothing else needs to be added. No expensive retro fit (which needs to have the concrete jacked out and the insulation added then the tubes sunk in cement). This is the POWER of insulating a HEAT SINK. It's like turning off the refrigerator AND throwing down some carpet. Remove the chilly iceberg and you will automatically save money. It's your call.
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Sorry I wasn't clear. Floating a wood floor means you are allowed to float the cork as well. Yes I've stepped on high end 19mm hard wood over cork. It's fantastic. A 'permanent' floor means it is glued, nailed, stapled or mortared into place. A floating floor is attached to itself, but not the subfloor belies it. Can you confirm the THICKNESS of your wood? A 6mm (1/4" ) floor is very thin. Are you talking about the TOTAL thickness of are you talking about the WEAR layer thickness?
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helbrod
Original Author
6 years ago
How does the Luan make the osb less squeaky? It just firms it up so the floors don't flex as much? That may work...I would scrap the cork
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helbrod
Original Author
6 years ago
I think maybe 3/8 plywood is the ticket...same price as the cork...will scrap the cork
0
PRO
Cinar Interiors, Inc.
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
If your subfloor is squeaky it may not be screwed down properly or may need a few extra screws. Somewhere in there is give and it's rubbing.

Check the installation guidelines of the product you're using and check to ensure it states whether or not your product is warrantied over 3/8 plywood.

This info will be available on the manufacturers website.
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helbrod
Original Author
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
Thanks guys. I met with an honest contractor...said my shaw 3/8 engineered floors are essentially laminate they are so thin...and that by the time we install plywood over my osb I should find a 3/4 solid prefinished I like...which I have...we will glue to the osb...less labor cost for me- he said put the money towards the product.

I feel good about it. For the same money, I might as well put down a decent floor. :)
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SJ McCarthy
6 years ago
I was about to save you money by telling you to float the cork over the OSB and then float the engineered hardwood over that. It shouldn't have ANY movement. The MOVEMENT is what makes something sound hollow. Cork removes the hollow sound. And if you have noise issues the cork is MUCH better than the 3/8" plywood. It will offer 2-4 dB. The 1/4" cork = 11 - 12 dB. That is TRIPLE the acoustic value of the plywood. And the squeaking of the subfloor is due to NAILS being used with OSB! OSB SHRINKS! And that leaves the nails exposed to rubbing. The rubbing of the wood on the nail will cause the squeak.

And floating everything is MUCH cheaper than gluing.
User
6 years ago
No way in hades would I glue down 3/4” over the subfloor that you have. Quick waste of money with a tail light warranty.
helbrod
Original Author
6 years ago
Really? Not even if it is 4" beveled edge? Stick with 1/2 engineered or solid?
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helbrod
Original Author
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
Oh goodness!!! So confused again... maybe floating the way to go over cork??? How the heck do you float cork? Can I use the click lock 1/2 or 3/4 solid or engineered? I
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User
6 years ago
Fix the darn subfloor. It isnt optional.
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helbrod
Original Author
6 years ago
Can you elaborate? I can't replace.
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SJ McCarthy
6 years ago
Cork underlay comes in sheets - like a beach blanket. The installer throws down the sheet (large rectangle that is 2ft x 3ft in size) and it SITS THERE. Nothing holds it down. Ok...gravity and the floor on top hold it down...but that's just getting into semantics.

The installers LOVE working with floating cork. It takes 10 minutes to get it into place. No nails. No glue. Nothing. Just some shims at the walls to maintain the expansion gap needed for the flooring.

Then the wood floor is floated on top. The engineered hardwood (which SPECIFICALLY STATES IT CAN BE FLOATING) is then laid. The installer applies glue to the tongue/groove of the plank (appropriate glue...not just any glue). The wood is NOT attached to the cork. The cork is NOT attached to the subfloor. This is a "floating" floor (floating means there is nothing holding one surface to another). The glue is then allowed to cure (about 1 day). And you have a fully functional floating wood floor.

Done. Done. And done.

Fix the squeaking of the subfloor FIRST (screws are used to do this...which is what *should have been used to lay the OSB in the first place - but I digress). And then go ahead and lay the cork (it just sits there) and then the wood floating on top.

Much cheaper and much faster than laying new sheathing and then gluing/nailing wood over top.
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User
6 years ago
Won’t is different than can’t.
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helbrod
Original Author
6 years ago
Both in this case...can't afford it so won't
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User
6 years ago
Then you aren’t ready to do the job if you won’t do it right. Putting pretty swirly fondant roses and pearls on top of a mouldy wedding cake is skewed priorities. Save more and do it right.

Shaw 3/8 engineered glued over osb... ? Cork underlay?

Cinar Interiors, Inc.

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Shaw 3/8 engineered glued over osb... ? Cork underlay?

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