Eld, I didn't care for TSOW at all; it just left me cold. However I'm always up for some movie chatting ;).

I didn't pick up on that sub-theme with the advertising guy but maybe???

As for the talking I thought that was just a dream.

Here's something I wondered about: Elisa is mute, she has scars on the side of her throat and she was supposedly found abandoned beside a river. Anyone else wonder if she was somehow a true mate for the creature? As in, were those gills? Did they somehow reconstruct themselves in that last sequence underwater?

We saw it Saturday night and I agree about the goriness/violence. I closed my eyes several times.

I didn’t pick up on that about Giles and his former employer, but you may be right.

I think the scars on Elisa’s neck were definitely gills. I assume she was also some kind of water creature since they said she was found abandoned next to the creek and loved water. I did hear her utter a sound at the end but don’t know if it was real or imagined.

Overall I thought it was a beautiful film and that it provided lots of food for thought and unanswered questions like all of del Toro’s films.

Running, re; the scars, DH thought the same thing. I don't know, to me, they just looked like scratches.

Texan, I didn't catch that she was found next to the creek!

Although it didn't seem like it, I assume she became alive again under water?

I think that at the end Elisa was regaining her speech because of the fish man's healing powers.

I didn't pick up on any subtext with the advertising guy.

Runninginplace, the creek bank, the scars turning to gills, that was pretty much exactly what I though, except...

Did anyone else have the sense that Giles was an unreliable narrator in this? He narrates it as if he is telling a story, but there's no way for him to know what happened after they went in the water. He seemed like the kind of person to spin a fanciful happy ending to the story rather than to face that it ended tragically.

I was interested in seeing this but after reading the posts, I'm thankful that I was spared. I abhor gore and violence.

I so want to see this, but I live in the boonies and it's not playing anywhere near me!

Sm, I don't and yet it took a while for it to come to my theater.

Spoilers.

I also found it unnecessarily violent and gory in places. Shut my eyes several times. Even my DH looked away a few times. I didn’t pick up on anything between the ad guy and Giles, but I do think that he was visiting the bad pie guy due to an attraction rather than for the pie.

I took away that the scratches were unopened gills. Interesting and weird at the same time. A sci-fi/spy/fantasy/musical/love story.

I thoroughly enjoyed The Shape of Water. It has been a long time since I enjoyed a movie so much.

Most hit movies leave me cold; I do not even bother seeing them. Quality, well acted, unpredictable, interesting movies are far too rare. And when I do find quality films, they are often sad, tough, disconcerting. I appreciate these films but I usually do not feel like I was entertained so much as enlightened, or educated. (eg the last 4 movies I saw were Three Billboards, Florida Project, Mudbound, Ex Libris and Maudie)

By contrast, SOW was entertaining. It felt like an old fashioned, big, sweeping movie. I adored the sets, the music, and the quirkiness. It was not predictable To me, it was a touching story of marginalized people (racial minorities, LGBTQ, immigrants, the disabled, etc) banding together. Yes, there was some gore and I did have to (she says with hand to forehead and a faint drawl) "avert my eyes" from time to time. But the level of violence would not stop me from seeing the movie, at all.

As to the OP questions. IIRC Liza had a voice during the dream sequence? I do think he may have "healed" her at the end, but at that point not sure a voice would matter IYKWIM.

As for the artist, I got the sense that the guy was a friend, but that the organization the guy worked for was discriminating against the artist. The guy wasn't successful at getting the organization to accept the artist's work and did not know how to tell him.

ETA - if it was too oblique, i meant they were discriminating against him for being gay.

Mtn, this is what makes the world go round--I simply did not care for the movie. It never engaged me emotionally, and I actually got bored waiting for the thing to play out and end! I never felt any connection with the creature or the hapless cleaning lady. I detested the cinematography; all those dank dark broken down interiors, both at her home and at work. It really left me unimpressed all around.

It was pretty depressing wasn’t it? The guy three seats away from us was sleeping, lol.

I enjoyed it, too! Perhaps I've seen too many GOT episodes as it didn't seem overly gory or violent to me.

I loved this movie. I found it fantastical, a kind of grown-up fairy tale, and beautifully and imaginatively filmed. I thought that the artist friend was being sidelined due to his sexuality. And I thought it seemed that Elisa was some kind of magical amphibious foundling creature. She understood and bonded with the amphibious man, loved her baths (ahem), and those scars on her neck pretty much looked like gills. I loved the mix of magical realism and drama and romance. It was really original and nostalgic at the same time.

It was really original and nostalgic at the same time

A perfect summation, KKay !

ll those dank dark broken down interiors

Too funny, i loved her apartment, and esp the bathroom! Not every movie has to look like SGTG

ETA - forgot to add .... i assume she had had gills, because of the placement and symmetricality.

I didn't expect to like the movie having seen the previews, but I really liked it. Yes, there was some gore, but I didn't find it too gory. I was a very enjoyable surprise for me.

The Shape of Water is such an interesting film--people have SUCH different reactions!

Mtn, my office husband and I were laughing this morning; both of us are fussbudgets and neatniks and we both agreed every time we saw that bathtub we were mentally saying 'someone get some replacement tile and bleach in here stat' LOL

... and I was saying, omg i love that old tile, and look at that big zaftig tub, yum

Maybe a little regrouting, that's all

So funny. I also really liked Eliza bathroom. I especially like the broken tiles!

Hm, I was somewhat disappointed with it. The whole time I was watching it I kept thinking "just like Splash". The sea creature in the bathtub, the love story between the sea creature and the human, the evil scientists who want to exploit the sea creature, the end where they swim off together. It was a cross between Splash and The Monster from The Black Lagoon.

I saw The Post over the weekend and really enjoyed that.

ETA: I thought Octavia Spencer did a terrific job in her role in SOW.

I forgot, i saw the Post too. Fabulous. But it also made me angry and made me cry too

The bathtub grossed me out. How could anyone relax (or whatever) in that tub with that nasty looking grout? Ick.

I read that there were claims of plagiarism, but not with Splash.

Do tell, Jellytoast!?

Can't remember where I read it first, but google "plagiarism the shape of water" and there are numerous listings. Here is one from Vanity Fair, but that's not where I first saw it. Apparently there are claims by playwright Paul Zindel's son that the story was taken from Let Me Hear You Whisper. The claim is disputed, despite the similarities in the two stories.