Tomatoes that might be nice for use in crosses

6 years ago

Here are some tomatoes that I think could be quite useful in crosses. When I talk about things like improving flavor and productivity, I am willing to sacrifice some of the good qualities for those qualities in some cases (e.g. I might sacrifice some size to get more productivity and flavor).

Tatura: Flavor, at least when it's cold, if not when it's warm, too (this is possibly the best-tasting tomato I've tried); potential earliness (although it wasn't early for me in 2017); uniform, blemish-free, round shape; decently firm; it could be an excellent market tomato). It's basically produces the perfect tomato; in crossing, I would seek to increase yield, earliness, and/or size.
Sub Arctic Plenty: very prolific; earliness; uniform shape; firm; extremely thick walls; great market potential (I would primarily use this to improve other varieties with regard to the aforementioned)
My Pink Berkeley Tie Dye (which might be a cross with a large tomato, but I'm not so sure): prolific in drought; large (in crosses, I would seek to increase shelf life / hang time, how long it produces, acidity and some general stuff; roundness; firmness)
Ambrosia Red: I haven't actually tried the pure Ambrosia Red, but an accidental cross with it as the mother was extremely vigorous and prolific. So, it seems like it might be a good breeding tomato. It's supposed to be early and very good, too.
Mountain Princess: taste; earliness (in crosses I would seek to make it more indeterminate and all-season, as well as to increase yield, although it's not a poor yielder)
Sasha's Altai: taste; earliness; produces all season (in crosses, I would seek to increase fruit size and the number of fruits it produces at a time)
Sweet Orange Cherry: earliness; yield; vigor; produces all season; decent taste (in crosses, I would seek to increase size, shelf-life, and flavor—not that it has bad shelf life or flavor; I would primarily want to use this to improve other varieties with regard to its good points)
Green Giant: taste; juiciness; potential yield; size (in crosses, I would want to improve earliness, heat-tolerance, yield, and shelf-life)
Pruden's Purple: size; earliness; taste (in crosses, I would seek to improve yield, shelf life, and flavor—not that it has bad flavor)
Matina: foliage vigor; very-indeterminate; produces all season; early; prolific in the right conditions; tasty (in crosses I would seek to make it more prolific in drought conditions)
Stick: leaves are small so as to leave the fruit more visible (this also allows more plants to get more light); earliness; size for the earliness
Chapman: size; smooth and uniform; taste/texture in some conditions; good market potential (in crosses, I would seek to increase productivity, reduce mealiness in some conditions, increase acidity, etc.)
Sweet Ozark Orange: size; yield; firmness—except when extra ripe (in crosses I would seek to make it much earlier, and make it more acidic)
Thessaloniki: taste; size and productivity in some conditions; uniformity in some conditions; texture (in crosses, I would seek to improve its performance and size in drought)
Galapagos Island (Solanum cheesmaniae; the kind I have): early; prolific; produces all season; heat-tolerant; small foliage, but still indeterminate; can be quite tasty (in crosses, I would seek to increase fruit size and plant height to give it more protection from cats—and to get new flavors)
Paul Robeson: flavor (in crosses I would seek to improve heat-tolerance, productivity, size, and hang time)
My OP Husky Cherry Reds: taste; firmness; hang-time; shelf-life; sugar; produces all season; can be prolific (in crosses I would seek to increase fruit size and get new flavors)
George Detsikas Italian Red: size; earliness for the size; production for the size (in crosses, I would seek to further increase earliness and yield—and to improve taste, although it can be tasty)
My Amana Orange (which might be a descendant of an accidental cross with a pink tomato): firm; good shelf-life; uniform shape; unique and extra-attractive color for an orange; size; vigor in clay soil
Atlas F1: reported size/yield for a small plant (I'd just like to breed OP varieties out of it, and maybe use them in crosses)
Manitoba: taste; acidity; earliness; size for its earliness; yield for its type
New Yorker V: taste
Marmande: similar to Tatura, but not quite as much taste, more prolific, less uniform (in crosses, I would seek to improve yield, uniformity, earliness, etc.)
Aussie: size; taste; earliness in my climate (in crosses, I would seek to increase yield)
Roma: yield; small plant size; heat-tolerance; drought-tolerance (although I would probably avoid using this in crosses much, due to BER potential, I think it has some great qualities that can't be ignored)
German Pink: extremely meaty; good texture; large (in crosses, I would seek to increase earliness, heat-tolerance, and yield; I may seek to reduce the plant size)
Coustralee: size; yield (in crosses, I would seek to increase earliness and flavor)
Black Bear: size; yield
Mexican Yellow: size; yield
Pink Cheeks: size; yield; ripening speed (not earliness to set, though); taste

Here are some possible combinations (including some varieties I didn't describe above, too)

Sub Arctic Plenty x Tatura (or vice versa)
Chapman x Pink Berkeley Tie Dye
Pink Berkeley Tie Dye x Tatura
Paul Robeson x Tatura
Mountain Princess x Tatura
Pruden's Purple x Tatura
Tatura x Ambrosia Red
Pink Berkeley Tie Dye x Sweet Orange Cherry
Green Giant x Pink Berkeley Tie Dye
Green Giant x Tatura
Green Giant x Galapagos Island
Mountain Princess x Green Giant
New Yorker V x Green Giant
Green Giant x Pruden's Purple
My Amana Orange x Galapagos Island
My Amana Orange x Sweet Orange Cherry
My Amana Orange x Tatura
My Amana Orange x Pink Berkeley Tie Dye
My Amana Orange x George Detsikas Italian Red
Black Beauty x Maglia Rosa
Black Beauty x Chocolate Pear
Black Bear x Chocolate Pear
Pruden's Purple x Chocolate Pear
My Amana Orange x Ron's Carbon Copy
Tatura x Sweet Orange Cherry (or vice versa)
Tatura x Sasha's Altai
Sasha's Altai x Pruden's Purple (or vice versa)
Pruden's Purple x Ambrosia Red
Ambrosia Red x Sub Arctic Plenty
Pink Berkeley Tie Dye x Marmande
Tatura x Manitoba
Sasha's Altai x Sub Arctic Plenty
Sasha's Altai x Mountain Princess
Pink Berkeley Tie Dye x Matina
Sub Arctic Plenty x Matina
Chapman x Sub Arctic Plenty
Sweet Ozark Orange x Sub Arctic Plenty
German Pink x Sub Arctic Plenty
Sweet Orange Cherry x German Pink
Pink Berkeley Tie Dye x Roma
Sasha's Altai x Roma
Sub Arctic Plenty x Roma
Sub Arctic Plenty x Galapagos Island
Matina x Galapagos Island
Pink Berkeley Tie Dye x Galapagos Island
Thessaloniki x Galapagos Island
Thessaloniki x Sub Arctic Plenty
Aussie x Matina
Coustralee x Sweet Orange Cherry
Coustralee x Matina
Coustralee x Sub Arctic Plenty
Sub Arctic Plenty x OP Husky Cherry Red
Sweet Orange Cherry x Galapagos Island
Pink Berkeley Tie Dye x Sasha's Altai
Pink Berkeley Tie Dye x Thessaloniki
Scary Larry x Thessaloniki Ox Heart
George Detsikas Italian Red x Galapagos Island
George Detsikas Italian Red x Sub Arctic Plenty
George Detsikas Italian Red x Chocolate Pear
Pink Berkeley Tie Dye x Chocolate Pear
OP Husky Cherry Red x Pink Berkeley Tie Dye
George Detsikas Italian Red x Pink Berkeley Tie Dye
George Detsikas Italian Red x OP Husky Cherry Red
Scary Larry x Chocolate Pear
George Detsikas Italian Red x Sasha's Altai
Pink Berkeley Tie Dye x Sasha's Altai
Tatura x George Detsikas Italian Red
Tatura x Galapagos Island
Marmande x Galapagos Island
Pink Berkeley Tie Dye x Galapagos Island
Tatura x Thessaloniki
Black Beauty x Tatura
Black Beauty x Marmande
Black Beauty x Sasha's Altai
Stick x George Detsikas Italian Red
Stick x Matina
Stick x Sweet Orange Cherry
Stick x Pink Berkeley Tie Dye
Stick x Thessaloniki
Stick x Black Bear
Black Bear x Thessaloniki
Black Bear x Black Beauty
Black Bear x Galapagos Island
Black Bear x Sasha's Altai
Black Bear x Mountain Princess
Mountain Princess x Galapagos Island
Tatura x Black Bear
Black Bear x George Detsikas Italian Red
Sweet Orange Cherry x Black Bear
Black Bear x Mexican Yellow
Black Bear x Pink Berkeley Tie Dye
Pink Stuffer x Galapagos Island
Pink Stuffer x Stick
Pink Stuffer x Sweet Orange Cherry
Pink Cheeks x Galapagos Island
Pink Cheeks x Sweet Orange Cherry
Pink Cheeks x George Detsikas Italian Red
Pink Cheeks x Sub Arctic Plenty
Pink Berkeley Tie Dye x Pink Cheeks
Mexican Yellow x George Detsikas Italian Red
Mexican Yellow x Pink Berkeley Tie Dye
Sub Arctic Plenty x Mexican Yellow
Stick x Sub Arctic Plenty
Red Beauty x Sub Arctic Plenty
Manitoba x Sub Arctic Plenty
New Yorker V x Sub Arctic Plenty
Red Beauty x Galapagos Island
Black Beauty x George Detsikas Italian Red
Black Beauty x Red Beauty
Creole x Sweet Orange Cherry
Creole x Pink Berkeley Tie Dye
Pruden's Purple x Pink Berkeley Tie Dye
Pink Berkeley Tie Dye x Snow Fairy
Pink Berkeley Tie Dye x Payette
(Pink Berkeley Tie Dye x Payette) x Sweet Orange Cherry
Creole x Thessaloniki
Black Beauty x Sub Arctic Plenty
Sub Arctic Plenty x Black Bear
Black Bear x George Detsikas Italian Red
Pink Cheeks x Mexican Yellow
Pink Cheeks x Snow Fairy
Sasha's Altai x Pink Cheeks
…

Comments (4)

FrozeBudd_z3/4
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
Wow, you've really had your thinking cap on when it comes to contemplating tomato crosses! I can't make any recommendations, I've never before have hybridized tomatoes, though I'd like to make some crosses with 'Defiant' due to it's blight resistance and good taste. For many years, I've been hybridizing very hardy roses and have dabbled a bit with raspberries and clematis, all fun stuff!
Mokinu thanked FrozeBudd_z3/4
Mokinu
Original Author
6 years ago
One thing I think is pretty fun (and doesn't require one to do any cross-pollinating) is just to grow out F2+ hybrids (derived from store-bought F1 hybrids). It's an easy way to breed new kinds (at least, if you're not trying to get them to be exactly like the F1—that's understandably a more involved process).
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in 1965 the first short stigma varieties were developed. These were mostly put into modern hybrid breeding lines, but if you look closely, after several bees have bite-buzzed a tomato blossum to extract pollen the anthercone shrinks back from the damage exposing the stigma even on short stigma varieties. I do not know where the myth that potato leafed varieties cross pollinate more than regular leaf varieties came from other than that the short stigma varieties are/were RL, but that still leaves a lot of RL varieties out there that are not ancestors of the short stigma breeding lines. It is just easier to tell that your PL plant has been cross pollinated because you can see it as soon as the true leaves develop. When you are growing red RL varieties you usualy can't tell if they have been cross pollinated because the visible traits are all dominant (no matter what you cross with a red RL plant you will get red RL offspring the next year --unless it crossed with a cherry, which is also dominant). What is the rate of cross pollination? It depends on your area. I have a lot of bees, and in mid season I have about 20% of the seed from any one tomato crossed. This is an average of fruits showing from 0% to over 40% crossed seed, with the probability of crosses with like-leaved plants factored in (PL plants being crossed with other PL plants). My grow outs with a very small sample size indicate that a single blossom can get pollen from multiple other plants/varieties growing several feet away, so crowding/touching plants is not an issue. Bagging is simple, go to the Walmart party/wedding/fru-fru section and get a 12 pack of 4.5"x6.5" drawstring sachets (I bought some last night for $5/pack), and place them over trusses of unopened buds. You might have to pinch off the first opened flower. I find it easier to turn the sachets inside out so that the protruding cuff doesn't get in the way so much. Once you see fruits form, tie a brightly colored string around the truss to mark it and then sterilize the bag before using again. I drop them in boiling water for a minute or two, some people run a hot steam iron over them. That will kill any remaining pollen from the last plant. For peppers it is easier just to buy organza/tule netting at the Walmart fabric counter and bag entire branches or small plants.
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Rex, With all due respect, it doesn't matter if you think that zucchini, which is Cucurbita pepo, will cross with Butternut squash, which is Cucurbita moschata, because it will not. I won't even address your zedonk example because that involves animal genetics and we're discussing plant genetics. You can't mix apples with oranges. You have to understand the Cucurbita genus a little better, which contains 12 or 13 different species or species groups, of which 5 OR 6 are domesticated species grown for food but of those, only 4 species of squash are grown by most people. Here is the key: each Cucurbita squash species (moschata, pepo, argyrosperma, and maxima) crosses with other squash within its species (and each species has dozens of individual varieties) but the species do not cross with one another, with one notable exception that I'll explain in a minute. So, people who save seed can indeed grow one pepo variety, one maxima variety, and then EITHER one moschata variety OR one argyrosperma variety with no fear of them crossing. With the C. moschata and C. argyrosperma combination, you possibly can have cross pollination, but only if the C. argyrosperma is the female and the C. moschata is the male. You don't get the reciprocal cross. With these crosses, there is little research about how/if they do or do not cross in home gardens because the research has been done with wild squash and Mexican cushaw types, and most people don't grow those types in home gardens. People who have cross-pollination issues usually have them because they don't understand which varieties belong to which species. Each species has its own specific stem, flower, seed, and leaf characteristics. Here's a very brief description of what they are. Cucurbita maximas have very long vines, very huge and hairy leaves, and somewhat soft, round, spongy, hairy stems. They produce seeds that are either white or tan with either cream-colored or tan margins and a thin cellophane type seed coating. The maxima species includes all varieties of Banana, Buttercup, Hubbard,, winter Marrow and Turban types. In her book, SEED TO SEED, which is the definitive book for folks interested in seed-saving, Suzanne Ashworth lists several hundred maxima varieties. Cucubita argyrosperma (formerly known as C. mixta) have spreading vines and large, hairy leaves. Each fruit's stem is hard, hairy and slightly angular. At the point where the fruit attaches to the stem, the stem flares out only very slightly. The leaves of C. argyrospermas are lighter in color that those of C.moschata, they have rounded leaf tips and few if any indentations along their sides. Their seeds are either tan or white with a very pale martin. The seeds have a thin cellophane coating and cracks in the skin coat on the seeds' flat side. C. argyrosperma includes most but not all varieties of Cushaw squash (excluding golden cushaw, orange cushaw and orange-striped cushaw which are C. moschata), and many other squash including native types like Gila Cliff Dweller, Hopi, Cochita Pueblo, Hopi Taos, and Hopi Teardrop. In her book, Suzanne Ashworth lists several dozen varieties from this group. C. moschatas have spreading vines and large, hairy leaves. With these, the fruit's stems out very noticeably at the point where it attaches to the fruit. The stem is very hard, somewhat angular and hairy. C. moschata's leaves are a bit darker than those of C. argyrosperma but they have pointed, not rounded, leaf tips and slight indentations along their sides. C. moschata seeds are small and oblong in shape, beige in color and have a darker beige margin. Within this species, you have all varieties of butternut squash, all varieties of of Cheese squash or Cheese pumpkins, and many others. Suzanne Ashworth lists probably a couple hundred from this species in her book. C. pepo plants have very prickly leaves and very prickly stems, and they are especially prickly by the time they mature. WIth these, the fruits stems are very hard at maturity and have five sharply angular sides. They produce cream-colored seeds that have white margins. This is a huge family that includes all varieties of Acorn squash, all varieties of Cocozelle, some but not all pumpkins, all crookneck squash, all scallop squash, all vegetable marrow squash, all zuchinni squash, and more. Suzanne Ashworth lists many hundreds of varieties that belong to this group and that includes many decorative striped and warted gourds. All squash varieties are outbreeding and are insect-pollinated plants. There techically are six species: argyrosperma, maxima, moschata and pepo as described above, and also C. ficifolia, a species grown in Mexico and used in candy-making, and C. foetidissima, a wild gourd commonly called Buffalo gourd. The name foetidissima is a clue that their leaves have an unpleasant odor. The fruit are used for oil (from their seed) but are not eaten. For seed-saving to be done properly to preserve the characteristics of each variety, you need to ensure a greater amount of genetic diversity by choosing your male and female blossoms from different plants of the same variety. If you save from a very small population of plants, over time you will have lower and lower quality of plants and fruit as you lose genetic diversity. I don't rely on anything I find on random websites on the internet because there is a lot of misinformation out there and often the info given is too general. I rely on books written by acknowledged experts and on info from university or agricultural extension websites. If you are truly interested in saving seed, you need to buy or borrow a copy of Suzanne Ashworth's book "Seed To Seed: Seed Saving and Growing Techniques for Vegetable Gardeners" which is the definitive book on the subject. If you are interested in the squash family, do yourself a favor and read Amy Goldman's outstanding book "The Compleat Squash: A Passionate Grower's Guide to Pumpkins, Squashes and Gourds". To save seeds successfully, you have to have a broad-based knowledge of the types of plants you are growing and a thorough knowledge of seed-saving and the techniques needed to do it properly. You need to know not only how to do it but also why it must be done a certain way. Simply hand-pollinating and bagging a few blossoms is a minimalist approach that can give you seeds that run out if you aren't careful. Running out means that you lose genetic diversity with each generation you save because you are saving too few seeds from too small of a population. What you consider simple and efficient leads to weaker and weaker seeds and plants over time and isn't recommended. I'm not saying that to be mean but just to emphasize that there's a better way to do it. Dawn
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What you describe is similar to how Joseph Lofthouse breeds landraces. He probably intentionally crosses some plants, though. I recommend that you study up on landraces and Joseph Lofthouse. He definitely selects for desired traits. The idea there is generally to get plants that are more adapted to a local climate and set of conditions. It's not the way the industry tends to breed things. Yes, if you plant enough kinds of tomatoes, you're bound to get some crosses. I planted about 30 kinds in close proximity in 2015, and about 100 kinds in 2016 (and about 105 kinds in 2017). I've had a fair number of obvious crosses (but most have not been obviously cross-pollinated). I've probably had more crosses than average. Tomatoes have perfect flowers; so, a flower can pollinate itself. Also, crosses don't happen as often with tomatoes as with some other kinds of plants. If you want a lot of crosses, you're better off with squash (of the same species), melons and other cucurbits, as well as peppers. Peppers have perfect flowers, too, but they cross easily anyway, if they're the same and/or the right species; okra is probably similar there. Joseph Lofthouse is working on developing tomatoes that cross-pollinate more easily. Any tomato crosses you get will be potentially a little to a lot different every generation you grow them (especially if you keep letting them cross, and if you don't try to stabilize them). F1 hybrids are just crossed plants. So, you'll have similar results with those as with your crossed plants (except you probably don't know what either of the parents are; so, you may get more surprises).
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FrozeBudd_z3/4
6 years ago
Today, I was eyeing some of the tomatoes in the store with your comment in mind. There's a large beefstake type that has surprisingly good taste (for what is generally cardboard flavored) and I think I'll try growing some of the seeds as you've recommended, sure can't hurt to try!
Mokinu
Original Author
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
I wouldn't recommend that for tomatoes from grocery store produce, if that's what you meant. They may grow just fine, but there may be legal issues, which may additionally be a problem if you breed a new variety and want to release/sell it. I'm not sure about Canadian laws there, though. :) I'd recommend researching it first, anyhow, and see if the company will tell you if the variety is patented and/or PVP (if they have patented and PVP plants in Canada). PVP isn't necessarily a no-go, though, since laws may be ambiguous for seeds obtained via purchased fruits, and PVP seeds, if legally purchased, can be used in breeding programs (in the USA). If they're patented, though, unless it's an invalid patent, I'd steer clear.

Also, it might not be a hybrid, which is great if you like it as is, but the offspring won't as easily lead to new varieties. You'd have to do selection, find mutations and stuff.

Tomatoes that might be nice for use in crosses

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FrozeBudd_z3/4

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Tomatoes that might be nice for use in crosses

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