Thanks Armjim - I did ask the delivery person how to make sure I was getting hot water for the wash and he had also advised me not to use the Normal cycle but to select either the Permanent Press or the Heavy Duty cycle and it would fill with all hot water. I love that. I had to lift the lid a few times to check if it was actually hot water and it was. Even the top of the machine on the outside was hot to the touch. :-)

As with any topic ... what you know and have personally experienced is one thing ... what you don't know and haven't experienced is another.

True permanent press clothing should be washed in warm or hot water to relax the fabric and finish for releasing wrinkles. That's how the designated perm press cycles were originally designed. Maytag's original perm press drying cycle on electronic control models (wayyy back in the 1960s and 1970s) dried to satisfy the sensor, then continued running to heat the clothes to 165°F before finishing with a cool down.

I'll place a bet that some of you are waiting on my response to washing perm press (poly) in cold water...Haha

Poly is water resistant...it does not like water. Washing poly in cold water will cause dingy whites and dull grey colors not to mention the nasty whiff it will put off. Poly requires at least very warm and plenty of room to move around In order for solution to penetrate those man made fibers. Always turn spin speed down for poly.

Lol was typing while Dadoes was submitting.

Dadoes, I didn't know that about the water temperature and permanent press clothes. And you make a great point about what we don't know and haven't experienced. I agree with that.

Thanks Mama for the additional info on permanent press. Personally I love to buy 100% cotton, but we do have some PP clothes in the house. It's hard to get away from them these days.

I haven't encountered too many people who like top load HE machines. I've had front loaders now for about 17 years and I'd never go back to a big old fashioned top loader. I've used them up North and remembered why I don't like them. If you have a good front loader, that's the best to me.

I have a top loading Maytag purchased from Lowes two years ago. I have never in my 54 years of being married, been so disgusted with a washing machine. We're in our 70's and we're not rolling around out in the dirt so we don't have extremely soiled clothing like when the kids were home yet. This machine cannot get anything clean! I've tried every option on the dial, different detergents, and different water temps. Nothing works. All I get is a lot of lint on everything. I didn't know our clothes could shed so much. As far as saving water? My water bill has gone up. Besides, whoever came up with the idea of getting laundry clean without water? I could get things cleaner in the creek on the rocks! But my age has something to do with that idea too.

dqlts, would be helpful if you cited the model number of your machine.

Anyway ... I've been using a Whirlpool Calypso for approx 9 years, which was the original HE toploader on the market in the early 2000s (both Kenmore and Whirlpool labels). It operates much differently (in fact, uses LESS water per fill than the impeller-type HE toploaders) and much more effectively than the current designs. Unfortunately WP discontinued it. It was mechanically complex, costly to produce, and consumers had a hard time changing their laundry habits to use it properly.

The bulky/deep water setting uses too much water for appropriate wash action in the cabrio. Try mixed/deep water settings to get a better water level for stronger wash action. This should also use warmer water. All of this certainly makes me glad to own my Duet.

Dadoes, the model number of my Maytag is MVWC565F. I wanted an agitator and this model had one. Many of the machines I looked at did not. I'm just so disappointed in this machine because I've had other Maytags and was always pleased with them. This one, not at all.

This machine is considerably different from older Maytags of your previous experience. Per the user manual I found online the cycle choices are somewhat limited. A problem with the Deep Water Wash (if it has that feature) vs. Auto Sensing is that you have only the choices of a lower fill level that the machine attempts to sense/match to the load size or a FULL fill. As DoreyCrouse says above, contrary as it may seem, too much water is not conducive to good action for smaller loads or regular-type clothing. Proper detegent dosage is also a factor in flushing lint away ... check if the water feels "slippery" between the fingers ... although some liquid detergents may not give that result even with a good dosage due to differences in the formulation vs. powders. Be aware also that the water temperatures are "dumbed-down" for energy-saving/HE reasons, meaning that Warm may be restricted to 75°F to 85°F. Hot may be 105°F to 110°F on some cycles (which is what Warm was 20 years ago).

Another vote for speed queen washer. I have their top model from 2017.. By far, the best and most flexible washer I have ever had. Can control water level, temperature and runtime, cycles. Can add up to three rinses - if needed (great for people with sensitive skin or allergies - this can be a problem with front loaders and other Uber efficient machines that use very little water because they leave detergent and other residue in clothes). For example, I use an extra rinse cycle when washing cleaning rags, so residue from cleaners doesn’t get onto next load of clothes. it has a really good spin cycle so clothes come out of washer alot dryer than my previous machines. Has a quick wash cycle that is about 30 minutes. Doesn’t lock! Can add clothes while it is running. Functionally, I much prefer loading and unloading from the top. I hate having to bend down at awkward angles to put things into and take them out of front loaders. SQ washer seems to get everything clean and in much less time a front loader. We had front loaders when I lived in Europe and it took six times as long to wash bedding for a family of five. Sheets would need to be untwisted and untangled when we pulled them out of washer. I always had one thing I would forget to put in before starting it the load and there was no way to quickly add it to load in progress.

HouztonGirl, SQ completely changed the mechanical design and washing action of their agitator toploaders effective 2018. They had to add auto-sensing water level to comply with required energy regulations, although the machines still also have three manual water level selections, and the lid locks a few mins into the cycle.

Mine actually has 4 manual levels of water selection. I assume if the lid locks there is some auto-sensing involved with water selection level? It’s too bad my model no longer exists.

HouztonGirl, yes as I said SQ toploaders for 2018 have water level auto-sensing (as an optional setting). Locking lids are required if there's no brake to stop a spinning drum within a specific number of seconds (I think it's 3 seconds). The lid lock is because of the mechanical redesign that doesn't have a spin brake.

If you have a tankless water heater, you have an additional problem as I do. The new water miserly HE washers put bursts of water into the machine. If you want a HOT or even a WARM wash, you may never get one. The problem is that my tankless hot water heater is in the basement and my washer is two floors away upstairs. This is a new construction build and I had no say in the design. Because the old fashioned washers loaded all the water all at once, you got hot water eventually. With these new HE washers, you may never get hot water because the washer doesn't call for water in long enough spurts to actually get hot water in the pipe. I HATE my washer, but its not really the washer's fault. But what I wouldn't do to have my washer from 15 years ago back. I could get a real hot, soapy water wash no problem. Hang on to your old washers as long as you can!

If you have a bath room sink close to laundry you could run hot water there until it's hot, then start washer. Might not be hot at washer but should be warm.

Sparky823.... thanks for the tip and I have started doing that but I hate the waste of water. I'm also investigating running a short empty load or perhaps a low fill/drain option to get hot water at the tap when I want to do my whites. Still experimenting. Such a pain in the you know what. I wish I could get a Speed Queen but I need a front loader that will allow a stacked dryer because of the size of my laundry closet.

Since I bought a Speed Queen top loading, that allows me to lift the lid, I have been able to test the water with my hand to see that its plenty hot coming into the washer. Sorry you aren't able to get a Speed Queen right now, but maybe there'll be one in your future.

I know I'm not going to change anyone's mind but with 4+ yrs of experience with the Miele Little Giant pair can only say with cotton whites such as towels, sheets and dishtowels, the 95c wash gets them clean while minimizing water usage. No musty 'stale grease' smell on kitchen towels. White bath towels seem to last forever. Other things get clean in the cooler cycles. No repairs, no problems. I don't hate my washing machine.

I love my 2016 mechanical Speed Queen TL washer. Old school, simple and so easy to use.

https://www.houzz.com/user/uavviperswife what model do you have?

https://www.houzz.com/user/limi38 what did you end up getting and do you like it?

https://www.houzz.com/user/brucec76 which model did you get?

I hate my Whirlpool Cabrio washer - it's a piece of junk. As others have said clothes come out tangled, wrinkled, twisted like someone has wrung them out by hand and left them that way. If I could afford it I would replace it (with what I'm not sure) in a heartbeat.

Spin speed has no relation to tangling. Wrinkling, yes. Tangling/twisting, no.

Clothes are pressed stationary against the drum during spin, which can cause wrinkling at high speeds. There is no movement of the clothes during spin in relation to the drum or to other clothes in the load, so spin cannot promote tangling. Any tangling/twisting occurs during tumbling or agitation for the wash/rinse periods.

LittleGreeny what you said is completely misleading.

I was watching this whole thing unfold over time and the standards WERE set down by the federal government, even if the manufacturers themselves came up with the original numbers to argue about.

Knowing that they simply were not in the business of washing machine design, the government approached the manufacturers and required them to come up with proposals of what they could find feasible. The government simply did not want to enact numbers willy-nilly and end up with a fiasco as a result. But they did make it clear to them that large water and energy cuts were coming.

And a fiasco is precisely what happened in the end.

Note: The manufacturers have no stake in this game. Not one of them cares if their machine works well so long as all of their competitors are in the same boat. This has been a cluster-F from day one, and the enacted stage in 2018 of further reductions in power and water has only made it worse. EVEN SPEEDQUEEN is completely useless now.

I do believe in government intervention when needed. Had we intervened earlier, we would have had HDTV in the 80's like Japan did, and there are other examples. However, this one is a disaster.

I had a front loader for nearly 8 years that did "ok" so long as I added 15 liters of water. (!) I now have a 2019 top loader (Maytag) that couldn't clean if it had a gun to its head.

All it does is swish-swish-swish-swish-swish, regardless of whether I let it choose the water level or not.

So to recap, here's what happened.

1. The government (and states such as California) notified the manufacturers that a restriction on water and energy usage was coming and to come up with numbers they could find feasible in a certain time frame.

Understand? The GOVERNMENT forced this issue, so please stop saying that it came from the manufacturers.

2. They *then* met and negotiated numbers, including that document you posted. 2018 is the latest installment of that growing cluster-F.

3. Government turned that into law.

4. We're now in a crappy universe of non-functioning washing machines.

Correct about the govt. being at center of this. For 25+ yrs. we had a top-load Maytag that was great, but it was tired. A friend was (now retired) mgr. of appliance dept. in chain that sell top-end appliances. We went to him. They had a Whirlpool in clearance section for great price. He said he wouldn’t sell it to me. We bought LG front-loader & gas dryer. My wife loves washer. Only problem we ever had was when she opened the door with water in it, flooding laundry & hall outside, ruining oak in hall. The high-speed spin at end really does save time in dryer. We’ve had them ~4 years.

This is very interesting read.

Thanks for posting the links to the govt regulations & appliance standards terms above. That explains a lot what happen to the appliance industry.

of course saving water & electricity is good for the enviroment,but making machines that do not last as long or subpar is filling up our landfills causing too much waste.

Planned obsolence is a horrible business model. Maybe the govt should give tax incentives to companies & or consumers who make machines that perform well, last longer & save water & electricity.

I mentioned our Maytag washer lasted 25+ years. It may’ve been closer to 40. We bought it before Amana wa sold. We bought an Amana fridge when I got out of Navy in ‘73. It lasted almost 40 years. It still worked but it was an energy hog.

No fiasco with my water saving machine here!

We have an extra large front loading HE Maytag washer and dryer. I believe Whirlpool already owned Maytag for quite a couple of years when we bought them in 2008.

I absolutely love them. The washer can be opened during the cycle if the cycle is paused, otherwise it's locked. So no spilling accidents possible. Never had a single problem with either one of them. Everything comes out clean. They're both really quiet and cause no vibrations in the house like the old top loader and the old dryer did.

My neighbor has an LG top loader and complained about mold and a smelly laundry room and machine. Well, no wonder. Turns out, her teenager would often forget to remove his clothes after washing, only looking for them a week later when all of a sudden he needed them urgently. Well, hot summer temperatures and wet clothes combined led to the stench. I told her to run the empty machine with a bit of chlorine. Problem solved. The kid moved on to college and all is good in the laundry department ever since.

I grew up in Switzerland in the 60s and lived there in my own apartment for a couple of years after college. Our house as well as the apartment building had front loaders (water at bottom only). Never had a problem with clothes coming out dirty other than when a really old machine was dying. My family lives there and I've never heard of any of my siblings complaining about their washing machines not working well, or smelly machines either.

I agree 100%!!! I absolutely hate this washing machine! It never puts enough water in, and it doesn't agitate. I've actually taken pictures of my laundry to compare it in five-minute intervals, and the clothes don't move. I actually have to push my arm in there to move the clothes around so that they can wash. I end up having to reset the load so that wet clothes make it think that there's more stuff in there so that it fills up with enough water, but then it fills up with too much water! I might as well just use a bucket water and soap!

I can remember the washing machine my parents had when I was growing up into my teens, and you could lift the lid when it was going and see the agitation. It was amazing the amount of agitation it produced. Everything moved a lot - up and down motion I believe. The clothes always came out clean, well rinsed, no problems at all. Lasted us over 25 years, never called a repairman. I don't remember the brand, but the difference between my experience as a consumer then and now is remarkable. Not that getting the same brand now would be as good as they used to make them.

It's odd and discouraging that over time, instead of improving the function of appliances, they have gone down hill precipitously. And we pay more for them and they last a shorter time. By design I believe, so they can sell us more.

My parents have the Kenmore Elite 31633, which boasts a capacity of 6.2 cu. ft., and can fit over 30 bath towels into a single load.

"Montana Lolly" is a prolific necrospam editor. Please go back over previous posts and flag all the spam, there's a lot of it. https://www.houzz.com/activities/user/webuser_813144749/comments

31633 is not a full Kenmore model number. Wild-card search finds 110.31633610, 110.31633611, and 110.31633612 for washers (also some riding mowers, water heaters, a microwave oven, outdoor grill, and a television, LOL). Those washer models date to 2016. Good luck finding one new today.

You all should have bought a Miele, they have an onboard heater and mine is over 10 years old and not a problem,yet.

I just watched the washing action of the Calypso and Cabrio washers on Youtube and would not own either. Clothing just sits on top.

I just searched Kenmore 31633 and it came up. It is one of the Whirlpool based 6.2 cu. ft. machines. You might be able to place 30 towels in the machine, but it certainly will not wash them. I have used a Bravos XL and did 12 towels and it struggled to wash them on PowerWash. The next time I used the machine I tried Deep Water. Same result. Either not enough water or too poor of wash action.

Yes, I saw that claim that it could wash 30 towels and said to myself. Nope. They're not going to come out clean the way I like them. [g]

@elbits, the wobbling wash plate on the Calypso bounces and rolls the items over. What videos did you see with that not happening? Anyway, Calypsos were introduced circa 2001 and on the market for 5 to 6 years, no longer available.

My new Speed queen TR7 is built to last for sure, but it doesn’t clean clothes at all. I spot clean first and usually have to wash 2times. What a huge waste of money it was. It’s only 4 months old snd I hate it!

Very happy with our Speed Queen TR5003.. It replaced our 21 year old Maytag top loader which I was sad to see go. This new SQ uses a different wash method which rotates the entire drum but also has an agitator. I have no complaints on how well it cleans.

One thing I really like about it is how quiet it is compared to the old washer. In agitation mode it is 43 db which is close to the level of a Bosch dishwasher. The lid lock doesn’t engage until agitation begins and the auto fill feature works quickly and provides the correct amount of water for the cycle and load. Most loads are complete in less than 35 minutes.

Ursola Rose. Your SpeedQueen may not even be built to last. Our SQ Front loader lasted 7 years until the very expensive inverter control board failed. SQwanted $1200 for a new one, although they can be had for $600 on ebay etc.

How timely. We are now in an era where the government is demanding electric vehicles by XXXX date. They don’t care how well they work, how much they cost to fix, how many miles you can drive them, etc. The gas trucks are getting horrible results wrt range in the real world. As soon as they have to do any hauling, the range decreases immensely, as in well under 200 miles in some cases.

It's become apparent that appliances are not made too last like they use to be therefore have a shorter life span. The planned obsolence business model has overtaken the industry. All these subpar appliances are wasteful. It's filling our landfills to fill the bank accounts of these businesses who's motto (make it cheaper, so they buy more).

I'm hoping that maufacturers go back to making quailty products with good service.

As a consumer, I find it so frustrating finding true quality products.

If the people in power truly care so much about the environment,

then they should do something about this. For example,

give tax incentives to businesses & or their customers for making & buying quality.

If they can make products in the past decades last, there's no excuse they can not do it today. The reason appears to be nothing more than, common greed.

Here's a good video on the subject.

Appliances Made to BREAK! What Should You Buy Built to LAST?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cRgbfxJ8MTQ&list=PLnfYqjEAY82EAYfO5o6BZzWD3RkbsuCK0&index=9

Miele makes quality washers and dryers. They price them that way as well.