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pgee67

Walker MTGHS Kohler CH20S 64554 Electrical Problem

pgee67
6 years ago

My 2001 Walker MTGHS Serial No.
51338 with very low miles and well maintained died abruptly after mowing an
hour. It was as if I killed the engine (Kohler CH20S, 64554). It started right
back up and then died again. It would not start after that. When it runs it
runs well. When it dies it is as if I turned it off.

I first checked the safety
interlocks. All three are in working order. After testing and ensuring that the
starter and solenoid were both good, I started the engine. It fired up easily
and ran well for 10 minutes then died as before. The next day it started fine
and I mowed for about 45 minutes before it died again. It would not restart that
time after dying, only sounding oil pressure and temp alerts. Now, I can start
the engine and it will run for a few minutes before dying.

I know it sounds like a fuel
delivery issue but I really think it is an electrical short issue based upon
what I have done:

  1. Fuel

pump is working properly. Bowl is filling and sending fuel to chambers. Sparks
present, plugs wet. And fuel shutoff solenoid working. Therefore do not believe
it is a fuel delivery issue.

  1. Even

though the start circuit (key) energizes the fuel shutoff plunger, it only
reads 6.5v at the solenoid. Therefore, I fed the solenoid 12 volts directly
from the battery to see if that might be the problem. It apparently did not
change anything. Can still start the engine but it will die after 3-5 minutes
of run time.

  1. If

I turn key to RUN position, without starting the engine, the oil temp and oil pressure
lamps both sound the horn. And the voltage meter would not work, which is
atypical. Typically for 16 years upon starting engine only the oil pressure
light would sound until engine started. And typically the voltage meter would work
upon putting key in RUN or START.

  1. What

I noticed this time when turning key to RUN, without starting the engine, is
that the RED battery and PUR accessory wire out of the ignition switch became
extremely hot (and would emit electrical burn odor). This made me believe that
I had a short in the electrical system. I replaced the 30 amp auto reset
breaker and began testing the electrical circuit.

  1. First

tested the IGNITION SWITCH and it is not internally shorted.

  1. At

the IGNITION SWITCH I am getting 12.63v at “B” RED battery wire.

  1. At

the IGNITION SWITCH I am getting 12.63v across “B” + “A” (PUR accessory wire).

  1. At

the chassis plug that feeds starter and engine components, I am getting 12.63v
at PUR wire and at the BLU wire when IGNITION SWITCH is in RUN.

  1. At

the chassis plug that feeds starter and engine components I am getting 12.63v
across YEL wire when moving IGNITION to START.

  1. All
    this tells me that the START RELAY is working properly. Nothing surprising so far.

  2. De-energized
    system and began testing short to ground on the wires at different intervals:

  3. At IGNITION
    SWITCH, going through START RELAY, with 5-pin DISCONNECTED from engine, light accessory
    disconnected and delay relay disconnected NO SHORTS except black wire.

  4. At IGNITION
    SWITCH, going through START RELAY, with 5-pin CONNECTED to engine, everything
    else same as no. 12, the PUR wire shorted as well as the BLK.

  5. At
    console, testing 8-PIN CONNECTOR, with ENGINE CONNECTED, and delay and lights disconnected,
    it yields SHORTS at PUR, YEL, BLU, BLK and GRN. NO SHORTS at RED, WHI and GRA. If
    I plug in the lights, then the GRA would short at same test site.

  6. FROM
    8-PIN TO 5-PIN plug going to engine, ALL SHORT EXCEPT WHI. SHORTED ARE two BLK
    wires (shrink wrapped – maybe containing diode to stator), PUR wire, BLU wire
    to solenoid and RED wire.

  7. All
    the above continuity tests were performed with lights and delay relay isolated.

  8. With
    delay relay connected, then WHI shorts at the ignition switch, everything else
    connected except for the lights, and the BRN/WHT to Neutral Switch shorts.

The only component I have not
isolated and tested is the time delay module. I have independently tested the
three relays and they are functioning properly. I have also checked and rechecked all grounds
and they appear good. Based upon the tests, it seems that the PUR to the voltage
regulator is acting up intermittently. Maybe loose but haven’t had time to pull
engine to remove cover to get to VR.

Attached (I think) at page 95 is the Wiring Schematic for this Serial No. Walker. the only difference is that the circuit breaker controlling the gauges and safety interlocks is a 7a fuse not a 5a. I can send a service manual if helpful.

I’m sure I’ve missed something. I really appreciate the help diagnosing this
issue. Thank you.

PS Well guess I'm not smart enough to upload the wiring schematic. I can email or it can be found at http://www.walker.com/manuals/  select: T- Series Mower 06/01/2002 49592-71496. What an inconvenience. My apologies.

Comments (6)

  • tomplum
    6 years ago

    A breeze through your very detailed testing sparks a thought in regards to the low voltage at the anti backfire solenoid. Have you physically inspected the engine harness? I know sometimes on these horizontal mower configurations, it can be tough. These seem to get brittle. From the 12.6 voltage we can assume that the charging system has output or has it been supplemented by charging? If so, be sure that you have a working charging system. Should you have to pull the shrouding, if it were me I would install the updated ignition kit which will delete the module and replace the coils and kill harness.

  • pgee67
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    Thanks for the recommendation. Thought I might have provided too much information but the issue was getting the best of me.

    Here is what I did since last post:

    1. disassemble and check entire wiring harness. Wiring integrity appeared intact. Now a new challenge: rebuilding and reattaching the harnesses.

    2. located the VR/rectifier, which is accessible without removing shroud.

    3. remove the VR/rectifier, which had two White wires coming from stator to VR/rectifier with Purple wire going out to battery by way of accessory at ignition.

    4. Start tractor without VR/rectifier connected, and engine ran fine. Red (Bat) and Purple (Acc) wires no longer getting excessively hot and tripping breaker.

    5. While engine running at full throttle, I tested AC voltage output coming directly from stators White wires, and it showed 42v, which confirms that stators working properly,

    6. I guess this means I need a new VR/rectifier and tractor will be running normal again.

    It has always been the purple wire shorting out in all my tests. Purple comes from Accessory at ignition and is the B+ connection at the VR. Initial problem was that engine died leaving both Red and Purple wires extremely hot, presumably causing 30a breaker to trip.

    Perhaps the VR was internally shorting thus causing excessive output amperage to return back through the hot wire (purple) causing excessive heat and ultimately shorting out system?? If it were a failed diode causing the problem then presumably I would not have AC voltage from the stators?? I don't know the answer. Interestingly, running the engine without the VR yields sporadic and almost unintelligible voltage across the battery terminals. Would have thought the battery would read 12+ volts, declining as the engine ran?? Maybe someone can explain if my diagnosis makes sense and how the VR is causing the problem.

    Thanks again.



  • tomplum
    6 years ago

    You should always have AC out of the stator when running. You should also have a consistent battery voltage at the B wire at the regulator w/o it being connected. The diodes in relation to the charging system are in the regulator. Your engine should have a ground wire that attaches at the block and to one of the regulator mounting screws. That's a lot of shoulds, but if all else were normal I would concur on the regulator diagnoses. The assumption that you should have a steady , eventually declining voltage w/o the regulator hooked up is correct. The question is what is buggy and what the bizarre readings are from with no regulator connection. Goofy battery itself, connections?

  • pgee67
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    For what it's worth, I pulled engine and discovered a bolt wedged between the stator and engine wall. Presumably the bolt had cause one magnet to break into two pieces. This was probably causing the intermittent problems. Bolt was one from carb bracket that holds breather hose. Fell months ago and unable to locate. What are the odds it would fall where it did and cause so much problems.

    Regarding your advice to change ignition modules, it appears there are two choices, the CDI, which I have currently (DSAI?) or the MDI (presume this is the "upgrade" you are referring to). I have heard that I should stick with what I have because the MDI could create unexpected problems. Can you explain the difference and what all is entailed in making the conversion (different flywheel, other parts)?

    Thanks for the extra help.

  • pgee67
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    If it helps, the current ignition modules are not powered by the battery. They only have a kill wire going to each.

  • tomplum
    6 years ago

    Thanks for reporting back. Many of these are still running the original ignition so no problem. Should the module fail, they are not replaceable. There were I think 4 Command ignition systems. One you have to change the flywheel and strangely is cheap to do so as opposed to buying just a stand alone flywheel etc. Yours I think is just the coil and harness conversion. I made the assumption that your Walker may be a bugger to work on and to do the ignition while you were there. That's all really. Did you buy a new flywheel?

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