Before you buy that next big kitchen appliance . . .

7 years ago

I have been slowly remodeling my 1k sf home circa 1970's. Trying to ready it for retirement in 6 six years. This past year my adult daughter ended up buying the same model fridge as I did. It is a Whirlpool and I have to say I was so disappointed in this fridge as far as quality. She is disappointed too. Whirlpool used to be the fridge and freezer maker and now it is like the rest. They have all cut corners. The stainless steel is rusting in less than 4 months! It is a noisy unit. I thought spending 1,100.00 was going to buy me a decent fridge. It doesn't. My daughter's 4 yr old washer just broke down and finding a good model is one compromise after another.

I noticed that Bosch is now focused on small appliance sizes. All the dishwashers got smaller not more efficient. Many of these appliance manufacturers have been bought up by investment groups and the quality is just gone now. Most are cutting corners and providing sub standard options.The Home Depots and Lowes are pushing all these crapping models too!

I need a new stovetop and oven but after all these fails I have watched recently I am changing my thinking. I wanted an induction stove top but now I am not going to spend a lot of money on one. Nope, instead I decided to first try one out with a portable induction cooker I found on Amazon for about 55.00. Heck if I scratch it I can buy another one instead of having to replace a huge one. I only use maybe two burners at once so will store these units in a drawer, this way I can use the counter top for other things when I am not cooking. This is a good way to test out if I like it and it works for me.

For an oven I am going with a better smaller brand. A counter top Wolf oven. No more standing on my head to wipe out the ash from the self cleaning oven.

Also while renovating I can plug my counter top induction hot plates and my counter top oven in with any outlet so love how freeing this is. I can use the hot plates as warmers. I can cook outside if I want. I really hate how much moisture a pressure cooker and the smell it puts out so maybe opt to cook that outside under cover.

I think Bosch gets how we are being squeezed into a corner on downsizing for many reasons. Can't afford bigger homes. Don't want to clean bigger homes. Don't want to pay taxes for bigger homes. Don't want to buy big poorly made brand named appliances that fail on so many levels. Can't afford the better brand appliances in regular sizes.

My grandfather was a custom cabinet maker back in the 1960's and the cabinets I see today are not as well thought out and built unless you can spend a fortune on them and even then there is no guarantee. We plan to make our own cabinets since if you look at them there are not that complicated. You can make lots of other built ins around the house with the tools too for a small house that will meet your needs. Also if something fails or you want to change things up you can easily do that. Learn to be handy and this will free you from Lowes and Home Depots out there who are ripping folks off in a big way.

I think the dwindling middle class is being taken for a ride by these major brands and stores. They're over priced and under delivered should be their mottos. Is it no wonder that the Tiny House phenomenon has taken off like it has? Unfortunately downsizing to this extreme is the new norm for many and the only thing they can afford. Too many things stacked against folks and they are sick of paying for expensive things that are not that efficient and don't last long.

You might as well buy the cheaper things and replace them. A Frigidaire induction cook top will run me about 1300.00 which is on the cheaper end whereas an induction hot plate 10" will run me all of 55.00 I could buy replacement hotplates for years and still be ahead. If it gets scratched no big deal and just replace it at a small cost. But I plan to store these in a top drawer so if they are scratched who cares since no one can see them when not in use.

Bosch I noticed seems to get this shift in a big way and has positioned itself to be attractive to this new tiny house wave. Wolf is now getting this with their counter top oven too. There are a dozens of brands for the portable induction units for sale online. Ikea has a small 6" induction burner one that is selling like crazy from what they customer service people told me but the burner was too small. I found a 10" induction burner for my 12" saute pan from NWK for 55.00. You don't have to spend a fortune for induction compliant cookware like All Clad. I found Cook's to work but you can use cheaper cast iron as well. I was about to ditch my cast iron for a fancy induction cooktop but realized with these hotplates I won't have to. I won't care if they are too scratched since I will store them in a drawer.

I am now looking for a better approach with kitchen fan. Maybe a slide out or an under cabinet unit that is flush with the cabinet so that counter space can be used in other ways. I see Bosch makes the slide outs in 24, 30 and 36". That would be expensive but will to roll the dice with them over the major U.S. brands that are just awful today.

My Miele vacuum cleaner was a great investment and Consumer Reports never included this brand in their assessments at the time I was buying many years ago. I know the big push is to buy American and I would like to do that too but it is getting harder and harder to do that when companies from other countries are offering better products. You get burned enough with these big brands you will look for alternatives. I I was also willing to pay a bit more for a Miele since I knew it would last. Can't say that about any major brands in the U.S. unless you spend a fortune more. I can't afford to be taken to the cleaners anymore. Whirlpool is a joke. I actually tried to find a brand of stainless steel appliances that didn't rust and all the major brands had tons of complaints from consumers. I even looked at the non stainless steel ones and they looked worse. They use a cheaper stainless steel now and they dump these on consumers. I had Whirlpool since a contracted tech to come out and just give me the song and dance about it and they do nothing and they know it is a common problem. I should have caught the rusting in the first 30 days not four months later apparently. Their warranty is insulting to consumers. But those reviews were not the top reviews online, you have to sort and dig to find them and I wonder now about how real many of those reviews were. I was going to buy a Whirlpool freezer after this fridge but will never waste my money on this company again after watching my fridge rust in front of me without scratches. It is insulting. Maytag is made by Whirlpool btw. I wonder how many consumers out there are rethinking all of this like I am and the paradigm is changing within this sector. Are consumers fed up enough yet to change their preconceived ideas of what a kitchen should be and have and willing to break from Lowes and Home Depot and the major brands et al? I sure am!

I am letting go of all the marketing that is done to us and trying to
find a better path on what works, not too expensive, will hold up, looks
decent not fancy, has a small foot print but big enough to get the job
done, with more flexibility to use that space more ways if possible and
geared to older buyers who are going to have more access issues as they
age. Especially with all the millions of baby boomers who have retired
or about to and don't have money to waste.

Not many reviews for slide out kitchen exhaust fans, open to any good reports on brands and models or new approach to this. Maybe placing a wall fan under the cabinets to the exterior wall like one of my grandmothers had in the 1960's still is a good option? I hate to spend 700.00 on a slide out fan that fails in 4 years or rusts. Maybe I can make my own slide out? I don't know why these fans are so expensive for what they do and the motor they have!

Featured Answer

dan1888

7 years ago

The current industry standard 1 year warranty in the US is a joke. Imo this is because of lack of competition now that Whirlpool was allowed to buy Amana, Kitchenaid and JennAir. Our market needs a reliable reasonably priced frig. Hopefully someone will step up.

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Comments (25)

Toronto Veterinarian
7 years ago
There will never be a major manufacturer without lots of complaints because nothing and no one is perfect. There are always going to be hundreds of ones that have problems and don't work well, so don't waste your time looking to find a brand that doesn't have complaints. And don't waste your time wishing things were like they were 50 years ago either.
User
Original Author
7 years ago
Well I totally disagree with you. I have friends that have older stainless steel appliances within the last 10 yrs and they don't rust. There are many articles about how they are using a lower grade stainless steel to save money on the appliances. Google for yourself there are tons of articles regarding this:

"According to a report in the Minneapolis Star-Tribune, the prices of nickel and chromium have risen dramatically
in recent years, due to increasing demand from the aerospace and
healthcare industries. This change in the cost of doing business could
theoretically influence manufacturers to lower the nickel and chromium content in stainless appliances, thus giving them less protection from the elements. Manufacturers
don't provide stainless grade information to the public, and neither
did the representatives we contacted, so it's hard to be sure whether
they're cutting corners."

That is not about perfection that is about lowering standards so low that it causes all the complaints. There are so many complaints for all the big brands now, it is more than just a quality control issue. I am not wasting my time at all. I have moved towards better alternatives and wished I had thought of this earlier and found the options earlier. I found two great alternatives and will totally avoid GE, Whirlpool, Maytag, Frigidaire etc. sub par offerings. Hey I am not wishing for 50 yrs ago maybe even 10 years might have been better. Not sure what you point is Toronto but your post has not been helpful at all.
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I don't particularly rely on a store to provide me with repair work except for the immediate delivery of a product. I have Bosch appliances and I would contact an authorized Bosch dealer in my area or KA. Similarly my Apple computers and other devices are serviced by Apple or Apple service people once they are out of warranty - I've bought them from numerous places including mail order back in 1991 when I bought my first Apple Performa :-). @Lizzie - Hi there! My kitchen is finally finished but construction continued around me until fairly recently as odd stuff would happen - my washer dryer was a bit too deep for the closet so that had to be reframed. My hood was the wrong size and so that delayed finishing kitchen for a while because they didn't want to install cabinets on either side until the hood was put in - and didn't want to finish the backsplash etc. etc. etc. I am still not completely finished as they have to come back for various items on the "punch" list but it's livable except for the boxes which are still in the living area as I was a pack rat and I am still slowly going through stuff - and I have furniture I can't use and nobody wants :-( Apologies for hijacking the thread by responding to Lizzie but here are photos of the kitchen and dining area. I am really happy with the way it turned out and spending time (SO MUCH TIME) on houzz asking questions and reading threads helped me so much in terms of getting the best result possible. I worked with a very knowledgable designer but thanks to houzz, there was stuff that I asked for which she had never heard of like my toe kick step stools. It truly is correct that having the luxury of living in a space gives one a better understanding of what doesn't work in the space and what would make it work better because almost everybody has certain constraints that impact the design of the kitchen. In my case, I was working with a small urban kitchen in a high rise - the kitchen is 8' x 10' so I needed to expand functional storage. @Lizzie - here are a few pictures of my finished kitchen. To the left of the cooktop I have a Bosch side opening wall oven with a microwave drawer below it and a VERY shallow tall cabinet with shelves. It is in front of a concrete support beam so it is about one can deep. This is the area behind my dining area. The tall cabinet to the left can be seen in the first photo. There is a door on the side and so the KA mixer and Cuisinart can just be slid out when I need it. The tall cabinet to the right is my broom closet. Excuse the mess on the counter as this was taken just when I moved in. This shows the tall cabinets in my dining area better in terms of the appliance storage and how it relates to the kitchen counters. I had the interiors painted blue but the shelves are clad with blue laminate and the sink cabinet is also clad in blue laminate for easier cleaning. This is the sink wall. The kitchen sink is disproportionately large (36" for the space) but because it's a ledge, it is super functional since the grad which you can see to the right of the sink gives me very functional "counter" space. I can store it on the bottom of the sink and I also got the cutting board. There is a sponge caddy to the extreme left which is a narrow removable shelf which is handy for sponges and other wet stuff. My KA refrigerator is on the right peeking through. It is counter depth but not integrated but I "cheated" the look by having my lower cabinets made slightly deeper than the standard 24"; having a panel on the left side and having the cabinet maker clad the sides that protrude with matching wood. With a counter depth, you need to have it protrude slightly so the hinges are clear of obstructions but since I had those parts clad in matching wood, it fools the eye. Not part of my kitchen ha ha but this is one half of the wall unit in my office/den area. Since I have an open concept space, it relates to the kitchen cabinetry in terms of color as well as having slight Art Deco style elements. This was my sad kitchen prior to the remodel. Again apologies for taking this thread in a direction completely unrelated to the original question.
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mishmosh
7 years ago
I'm pretty happy with my appliances...all bought within the past 2 years. Our Whirlpool fridge is probably my least favorite but that's only because the icebox in the fridge section is problematic. No rust.
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User
Original Author
7 years ago
Well I can show you endless reviews where this is not the case. I can show you mine that is rusting and my daughter's fridge too. I can tell you that Whirlpool doesn't do a darn thing about it either. I had them out. Mine is noisy too and that is another problem with these units. I followed some threads with sound proofing these and some guys found some really simple things that would improve the sounds from these and simple engineering changes could have been done with these sub par appliances. All he did was fiddle with the way the air flowed and used some aluminum tape for this stove. So they are lazy about really improving on these when average Joe can trouble shoot these. My 1998 18 cubic foot Kenmore fridge didn't make as much noise as my 2017 25 cubic foot Whirlpool french door fridge. Look at all the new buyers reviews here and see how bad it is, don't just take my word for it:

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Whirlpool-25-2-cu-ft-French-Door-Refrigerator-with-Ice-Maker-Fingerprint-Resistant-Stainless-Steel-ENERGY-STAR/1000228559
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mishmosh
7 years ago
twenty years ago, people weren't posting online reviews like they do now. just because you had no problems doesn't mean others didn't. our whirlpool fridge is still miles better than our KitchenAid fridge from 20 years ago with exception of the icebox. but that's just me. one data point. i didn't post any reviews back in those days.
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User
Original Author
7 years ago
Yeah I am not arguing the fact that there were no reviews back then???? I am explaining what my experiences have been. Your mileage will vary but if you look at that link you will see that many others are having the same bad mileage. My daughter included. You will see the same common complaints with these units with all the big manufacturers. The rusting, the noise, the break downs etc. Now a washing machine is good if it lasts like 4 or 5 yrs. They are also expensive now at 800 and up for the front loaders which is the only group that got into the 80's for the reviews but the trade off is the mold they create and the vibrations. Check out Consumer Reports and you will see how dismal the ratings are for top loaders and even the mold problems with the front loaders still carry on today even after class action law suits. Which is the least evil you think you can live with when it comes to these top brands in the U.S. is what it is boiling down to.
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mishmosh
7 years ago
not sure what your point is except to vent. nothing has really changed in the last 20-30 years. even that link you posted... average 4.5 stars. I'm sure it's a 1 star to you. That $800 fridge in 1990 would cost $1500 today... not $1000. you spend less, you get less.
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Jakvis
7 years ago
Just a long winded vent. Doesn't want answers that may be contrary. I'm moving on.
dadoes
7 years ago
Regards to MishMosh's experience with his/her KitchenAid refrigerator ... I have a 1997 KA that has had no repairs for the duration ... well, except the light bulb in the freezer had to be changed last year, LOL.
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User
Original Author
7 years ago
last modified: 7 years ago
I know selling is a key element here and maybe this is not the forum to talk honestly about the failings of this appliance industry and better options. If you reread it you would find I am asking about kitchen vents and options. Maybe this was too much to read for you in one sitting? Sorry to over burden you. Best to move on to 40 character tweets.

@mishmosh As far as spending if you track the incomes over the last few decades the middle class has been on a steady decline. Salaries have not kept pace with inflation. So spending 1200 plus tax was a lot for me and my daughter. So go troll elsewhere. My 1998 fridge didn't cost anywhere near 1200 but held up much better.

I was able to track down a peer review paper on kitchen vents which explains how this area is not regulated and well you don't need to spend an arm and leg on them but none of them really do a great job and yes the fumes from the cooking can be carcinogenic and it is something to be concerned about. But maybe that is considered venting by you too? Yes this sector is not really stepping up to the plate for providing better approaches.

http://eetd.lbl.gov/sites/all/files/publications/lbnl-5545e.pdf
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Toronto Veterinarian
7 years ago
"this is not the forum to talk honestly about the failings of this appliance industry"

Right. This isn't a website frequented by consumer watchdogs or by people interested in entering politics and trying to whip up public sentiment for their causes. This is typically a forum where people come to share ideas and advice about appliances (not the consumer industry as a whole). And it's OK to vent one's frustrations, but vent them and move on - don't berate others for not wanting to join your blame game.

If you are unhappy with the current options for buying a vent, then I'm sure you could find someone who could build one to your specific requirements. People get them built for all sorts of specific needs (aesthetic, space limits, etc), so there's no reason you couldn't get one built for your specific engineering needs.
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tjmwine
7 years ago
You need to understand that when you "change" the way you make stainless to be " finger print resistant" you will change other characteristic of stainless steel as well ' Finger print resistant stainless is "cut" different so it has a duller finish and yes CAN RUST !
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Dianne H
7 years ago
last modified: 7 years ago
We just bought a home that came with the major appliances and I'm not in a position to upgrade at the moment (My dream is a dual-fuel range but it'll have to wait until the new year).

But, I understand what you are talking about. Our last residence was a rather well-appointed apartment. We were the first renters in our unit. Everything was brand new and every appliance was Whirlpool.

"Stainless steel" appliances had rust spots in less than a year. And, I'm rather scrupulous in regards to cleaning and wiping up in the kitchen. The fridge would alternately run too cold and then too warm. The dishwasher detergent "holder" would refuse to open and release detergent. The washing machine would refuse to operate at times requiring me to go shut it off at the fuse box because just unplugging it didn't reset it. The only positive thing I can say is that the oven temperature was spot on so baking was foolproof.

I'm trying to figure out what gas/electric range combo to buy and which one comes with the best warranty (not an add-on warranty either). Within the month I'm going to purchase a deep freezer but I'll probably go cheap because my experience has led me to know that paying more only reinforces the "fool and his money" adage.
User thanked Dianne H
mishmosh
7 years ago
Bottom line: sometimes buying cheap products costs you more in the long run both in reliability and also satisfaction.
thomas makowsky
7 years ago
Yep I do. I've been selling refrigerators for over 10 years. And the number one comment I hear from customers about stainless steel is that they don't like the fingerprints. The manufacturer's heard that loud and clear and started doing stuff to show less fingerprints. Why do you think they came out with colors like slate and black stainless steel? They are trying to get those customers to upgrade to stainless or a different color so they can make more money.
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dadoes
7 years ago
"Dianne H: The washing machine would refuse to operate at times requiring me to go
shut it off at the fuse box because just unplugging it didn't reset it."

That's impossible. Power *cannot* get into the machine if the plug is removed from the socket. There's no effective difference between unplugging the machine and turning off the breaker/removing the fuse. You were either unplugging the wrong cord or not leaving it unplugged long enough.
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tjmwine
7 years ago
I'm in retail appliance sales for actually 12 years but guess because you don't like my answer based on my 12 years working with customers and manufactures ( GE Whirlpool, Maytag, Kitchen Aid, Electrolux/Frigidaire LG and Samsung for that makes me a troll.
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Dianne H
7 years ago
dadoes - I took care of the issue the way the maintenance man showed me after unplugging it didn't work. It worked so I fixed the issue that way when it occurred again.
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User
Original Author
7 years ago
@DAN1888 I totally agree with you. It is shocking really to spend that much money for something they only guarantee for one year. Also the warranties are not that good for the first year. Whirlpool will not fix my six month old rusting fridge. I would have had to have caught the small rust spots withing the first 30 days to get them to replace it or take it back. But I wouldn't want another one since I would be dealing with the same problem soon there after. I had no idea Whirlpool owned those as brands as well. So basically Whirlpool bought out a huge chunk of their competitors and have set an all time low standard for this sector. I know the top guy at Whirlpool just stepped down in October. My last fridge was a Kenmore and now that brand is no longer what it used to be. Before the Lowes and Home Depot Sears appliances were very popular and they tended to last a long time. Didn't Amazon buy up Kenmore or you can buy them on Amazon? Not sure if that new method of selling will improve the brand. Thank you for posting : )
Dianne H
7 years ago
I was lucky to have a very responsive maintenance team that offered super-quick responses.

Overall - Range was great. Clothes washer shut down on its own accord and maintenance had me reset it at the circuit box. Dishwasher needed special attention - Detergent would not disperse (it clogged) until dishwasher was set to use extra-hot cycles (Maybe an issue between liquid v powder in the dispenser)? The icemaker in the freezer needed to remounted after 18 months.

All that I know after those two years is that I'll not ever consider purchasing Whirlpool appliances.
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3katz4me
7 years ago
I also had a stainless KitchenAid range that corroded - regular stainless, not fingerprint or smear free. Friends had same range and same problem. Also had an expensive built in KA fridge that was poorly designed - ice maker drawer could not be removed plus poor build quality for a $5K fridge. No more Whirlpool products for me. I always used to buy Whirlpool fridges but never again.
User
7 years ago
A $1000 fridge in 1978 is now $3800. Some of you need to reset your brains on costs.

A good appliance salesperson would show their customers how to easily clean their stainless and keep the fingerprints under control. It’s not hard. If you don’t know, then,.........
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Old Red 5b
7 years ago
Diane H. - I don't operate the dishwasher but know that my wife, as advised by a repairman in the past, does not use the soap dispenser but instead drops the soap someplace in the back
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wekick
7 years ago
"mishmosh

Bottom line: sometimes buying cheap products costs you more in the long run both in reliability and also satisfaction."

My appliances on my last remodel were all terrible as far as the way they are made. My Wolf dual fuel range was the biggest disappointment and was the one that could not be fixed. Having used appliances over the last 50 years, they have gradually dropped in quality. They might have more bells and whistles and use less energy but they tend to break so you are trading out every 7-10 years or with washing machines possibly more often. I have several friends with washing machines that lasted 2 years. I do love my Speed Queen top loader. Old school though.
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Before you buy that next big kitchen appliance . . .

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