I got all set up. Started laying the flooring and right away relized it doesnt interlock like it should. The butt joints dont lock like its missing a edge on the one side. . Once locked, the over lapped side lifts up .

trying to figure out if its legit or not or if its a manufactures issie . Its made install a nightmare and to say F it and find another installer. So i started setting doors and getting ready for trim in the carpeted areas.

@ HU...5241 Please start your own thread. We are not sure as to what you are trying to discuss. It is best to start with a good title, some photos and a description of your problem. That's why it is best to start your own dilemma thread.

One quick question since the floor boards are even more damaged when I saw them a couple of days ago while my parents had gone out of the unit. Can I put Crazy Glue along the planks so they stay together for now?

At present, we are using tape, but I can now feel the boards moving and shifting while walking on them, Very, very worried for my parents' safety. And with Covid, we don't have the option of doing the full reno now. l

Can anyone help? Shaw, the flooring retailer and the contractor are not answering my question: What can we do as a temporary solution?

Washroom latest image

Temporary = more tape (do more of what you are already doing). Or hands and knees with a TON of crazy glue. No. I'm not kidding.

Thank you again SJ McCarthy....and bless you.

I have been asking Shaw, the contractor, and the retailer this question for weeks now and received no reply other than the contractor sending a text telling me he has never had this problem before and that the same floors he installed in his basement are fine, which is nice for him but does not resolve the issue. After that, I was trying to find YouTube videos that might help and asking friends.

By the way, the condominium management wrote telling us that we certainly are allowed to have the top of the concrete prepared and levelled for installation and that a neighbour did this recently. Their installer made the request, and the condo Board was happy to approve it.

Thank you again for all of your help.

Since it sounds like you installed your own floor, HU....1242 The question becomes how much subfloor preparation did you do? How many bags of leveler? How flat did you get the subfloor? How level?

We didn't install the floors. We wouldn't know how. The contractor did the job, and the results are shown in the pictures. Now we know that he should have made sure the subfloor was flat before installing the LVP Coretc Galaxy floors last year.

We put $14k worth of Shaw flooring in our new home. We selected the “level 1” flooring and assumed it was considered that level because it is the 3.25” plank and fairly basic. We did NOT think it was due to lack of durability - and we were not warned. if we had been told that these floors would chip, crack, bubble and peel in the first days/months, we would have paid for the upgrade. We wanted LVP but were told we couldn’t have it on our second floor (which is interesting Bc our neighbors do).

We contacted the builder for issues we noticed before we closed, and they sent a guy to repair. He replaced a few boards and then started to use a filler...laughing when I asked him if this was common.

We asked the builder to file a claim. The installer came out to review and he submitted the claim for us. An inspector came out, and before he left he told us we weren’t doing anything wrong, to keep caring for the flooring as we had been.

The inspection was in August and we finally received a snippet of the report from the builder after Thanksgiving. It said one plan had an issue that should have been corrected at the factory. It called out several other planks that should have been culled prior to installation...the rest of the report was not provided and the builder has gone silent when I have asked for the complete report. We want to see what the installer said about installation and our care. We know when the floor was installed and what the conditions were.

These floors are a disgrace and NOT the “floors you can live on” as Shaw represents them to be. We couldn’t even move our refrigerator out without giant dents!

Our next steps are to hire our own inspector and an attorney if Shaw and the builder continue to ignore our claim. This is false advertising.

amore427, Sorry to hear about your very disappointing experience which sounds like it could have been avoided if the builder/installer gave you the guiding information on vinyl flooring(LVP) (simply put the equivalent of a user manual as one receives with a new car). Can you post a photo of the end flap from one of the boxes which would describe the product you actually purchased? Or in the alternative describe in detail what flooring you actually purchased? And a photo of the flooring damaged area?

From your description it sounds like a WPC product was installed for your application and intended use where a SPC product might have been more appropriate? This all should have been discussed with you before you selected the flooring along with the performance capability differences of each. WPC describes a wood/ polymer core composition and SPC describes either a solid or stone/polymer core. For the WPC the wood is like a saw dust that is whipped into a froth with the polymer, as one might expect this presents a softer surface which would be subject to indentation when heavy loads are placed on it. Further heavy rolling loads across the joints can cause joints to disengage and floor failure (i.e. wheel chair with a overweight person or moving dolly with a heavy appliance). Flooring limitations and cleaning guide for the product should have been explained to you ahead of the purchase and printed out in owner/user type guide for the product you purchased. Normally when moving an appliance i.e. a refrigerator it is recommended that a sheet of plywood or Heavy cardboard be put down to move an heavy object across the vinyl floor and into position. Normally furniture pads are recommended under the feet/legs of heavy objects ( I used cut to size scrape pieces of flooring and under the refrigerator/stove/dishwasher I used a cut length of flooring).

Earlier on in this link I described my own horror story working with the local Floor shop(s), flooring manufacturer (regional reps, Corp reps and their legal dept), multiple installers, inspectors(both manufacturer and my own hired), and flooring training/certification industry (Dalton, GA). What I learned is they all cover for each other when obvious mistakes are made. From my personal experience with the vinyl industry I am of the belief that none of the contacts I made have a clue in the proper use and installation of vinyl flooring(LVP) from the manufacture to installers and Cert agencies. While in the end ALL said LVP could not be used in my application, in the end (being an engineer by profession) I proved that an "engineered" solution in fact did work in my application! It was a simple task of evaluating the materials specifications in direct regards to installation environments.

I've now successfully installed both Shaw and Mohawk LVP flooring planks on the first and second floor in my home "myself" and would say both brands have their own unique problems which need to be addressed with an engineered approach but one MUST be able to discern the issues for proper installation in each environment.

For all claims I would recommend first deferring to your product warranty. An example being that a large flooring manufacturer marketing material may claim that their flooring is suitable for atrium and sun room areas and that it "stands up to direct sunlight" whereas their warranty states "do not place in direct sunlight" and the max temperature rating is lower in the warranty then what is stated in the marketing materials. These types of conflicts are common in the industry and I could go into similar more recent issues with a large well known window manufacturer but that is for a different blog... Buyer Beware!

@Doug T thank you! Our flooring is the standard builder engineered oak flooring. It’s garbage. We wanted LVP but they told us we could not have it on the 2nd floor. This is the “scufresist” DURAS hardwood...”floors you can live on”

We’ve moved a few times - we’ve never had to pull the fridge out - but just a couple of feet, and we have easy dents. I dropped a can opener, I have a dent. office chair left marring (my chair, while I was waiting for the floor pad...my husband’s didn’t). Honestly the dents, I can live with. It’s the veneer that is flaking, chipping, bubbling, splitting and cracking. We had issues before we moved in and they continue. My guess is that there is a reason they do not want to give us the full inspection report.

We’ve had engineered and site-finished flooring...nothing like we are experiencing with this product. The durability is garbage.

Sigh...this is why I always suggest the homeowner pay for their own inspection. In the building industry the rule is: "She who pays for the report, owns the report (and doesn't have to share until a judge askes for disclosure of documents)".

I'm sorry this has happened. To get anything done, you will have to pay for the NWFA Certified Wood Flooring Inspector. You can find the closest one off the website

www.nwfa.org

The NWFA inspectors are trained to create a court-ready document. It can be 10 - 30+ pages long with photographs and detailed testing.

This court-ready document is often enough to get everyone back to the table. Builder's recognise the dangers of a homeowner with an INDEPENDENT (ahem....not the same as the manufacturer's report) Inspector. The manufacturers are well aware of the NWFA qualifications and the ever-so-desirable/believable INDEPENDENT inspection.

Believe me it is WELL worth the money spent. Imagine paying $950 (can be much more thn that) for a report that SCARES THE PANTS off of the builder/manufacturer. That's what you get when you pay for an NWFA Pro.

Sometimes just THREATENING to hire one is enough to have them come back and offer replacement.

Please post photos.

thank you. I asked for the report again today - and advised that I’d be hiring my own inspector and would be needing the installation information.

I know they installed with the HVAC off - in April. They didn’t acclimate the flooring. I don’t know much more - but that is enough according to a friend who is a builder (he built our last home), and explained that builders like this flooring because of how cheap it is. We get the excuse that it is a “production home”...means nothing to me. We’ve never had issues like this!

amore427, below is a link for the manufacturer warranty I believe is for the flooring you described. I will assume you received a copy before, during and/or after your installation along with the builder/installer warranty? Based on manufacturer warranty it might appear that this particular product might not be appropriate for your conditions, use, wear which you described. It seems that you should be able to demand the full inspection report from your builder and/or expect him to refund the full amount paid for flooring, you may need to find a lawyer familiar with construction Law though. Photographs of your particular flooring issues along with State/climate information of where your home is located could be helpful for discussion here?

https://shawbuilderflooringsf.com/flooring/how-to/hardwood-how-to-s/warranties/hardwood-warranties

https://pdmsview.shawinc.com/viewer/doc/3592

My experience with certified inspectors has been that for $700 they will provide many pages of BS and photographs unrelated to the real problem. They appear to defend the manufacturer and/or shop that is responsible for the install rather then the home owner. This may not be understood as you paid for the report but it's a conflict as their main source of income originates from flooring manufacturer, shops and installers disputes, very seldom will home owners request an inspection for no reason.

There are reports on the internet of home owners paying $30,000 for flooring jobs with many defects, then paying $50,000 for attorney fees over several years to get the problems corrected.

The honorable flooring companies will install the flooring properly the first time around, the ones that are less then know they have you over a barrel unless you prepared for a lengthy expensive legal battle. These harden pro con artists, know the ropes and simply don't care!

Did builder originally explain why they felt LVT would not be appropriate for YOUR 2nd floor??

We are in southern NC. The builder did not give us any of that information that I recall. We had a very small folder...maybe it is on a thumb drive, but not sure. I am familiar with the link you provided - I keep it open on my phone, and studied it the minute we started having issues. Our prior builder also pointed me to it - and said that if they didn’t have the HVAC on, it’s a problem. They didn’t follow the instructions for installation. I spoke to the installer, and flat out asked him about the conditions...and said, “if you said to the builder that you couldn’t install before the hvac was in and the conditions correct, what would they say?“...he knew what I was getting at...they wanted the work, they did what the builder says. I asked the construction manager that completed our home - and told him that our friend had mentioned the hvac being on as an important step...his response? “That’s bullsh*t” as he stormed off. My friend explained that it’s about getting the house done - and waiting for the correct conditions delays construction.

I cannot recall why they said we couldn’t have LVP on the 2nd floor. I can tell you that our 2nd floor is not level in so many ways. We had a riser built in our media room - the contractor showed us how off it was, and he had to add an extra 3/4” of wood to make it even. Outside of our media room, we have closets with wood flooring. I stood and looked on day, and you can see a huge difference in the space between one side and the floor, and the other. Again, not being here during construction was not helpful. We moved in and saw shoddy work - we were told by the warranty guy that we should have called it out prior to closing...well, my husband flew in for the walk-through, about a week before we closed...and we were moving from another state. He had never been to the house - had never walked the floorplan. That little walkthrough wasn’t enough. Horrible service.

Aside from the chips upon move-in, my complaint started with and continues to be with the spacing of the planks. It is uncomfortable to walk on these floors - I can feel the grooves - it was uncomfortable in the summer and continues now in the winter. The humidity in our house is around 50-55% (within Shaw’s range)

The builder is wrong. And he knows it. That's why he stormed off. The improper install VOIDS the warranty...on every thing.

This is now on the builder. The floor manufacturer is out of the picture. They won't help because it isn't their fault. It is the fault of the builder.

I assumed...is there ever a way to install when the hvac isn’t on?

this is a National builder...why would they do this? Assuming that nobody would fight it?

And would the inspector still call out bad planks if the warranty was void?

Sounds like you have a lot going on, if bad install and/or planks damaged before/during install one can not blame the manufacturer. If sub-floor is defective and the builder/installer went ahead and installed then its on them. Its unclear whether you had a walk through and signed off on this project without making notes of the defects on the sign off form, understood you were under gun for the move and to move in, but...? Did you make your decision on flooring based on marketing brochures and/or what you were lead to be believed was an ACTUAL representative sample board??

The fact that you suggest the second floor was not flat enough for LVT seems goes to point of sloppy construction to begin with. I assume "builder" was the general contractor on the job?

As far as running the HVAC it would be a matter of seasonal temperatures/humidity both during flooring storage and at site during install. Important factors would include how quickly flooring was installed after the home was FULLY enclosed and if necessary was the home given enough time to dry out if a HVAC system was not present and running? The flooring manufacturers generally list a range for install temp and humidity which install can proceed without "acclimation" but wood is more sensitive to these specifics then LVT.

If the inspector is certified by a recognized certification agency, the inspector should call out in the written report ALL defects with supporting photos and written text describing what they believe is causation based on their training and experience. While the report maybe the possession of whoever paid for it, you have a claim against the job therefore require proof that the defects were not due to construction workmanship. Demand the full written report which should include inspector's full background, certification(s) and years of experience in the wood flooring (not carpeting) industry. In my case the flooring manufacturer, Mohawk, sent out an inspector with a carpeting background and his report was written on a "carpeting" form without even correcting some of the pre-printed information which related only to carpeting??

In your information posted you make reference to "builder", "prior builder", installer" "construction manager" and "they" , can you be more specific on what you believe was the scope of responsibility role of each of these separately identified people on your project?

You stated as particular problem..."Spacing of the planks", can you include photos in your postings to show the defects you refer to? The better you document the problems the easier it will be for a construction attorney to determine legal merits for proceeding on your case.

I tried to comment with photos but it wouldn’t upload. “Former builder” is the guy who was the construction manager for our last home - we were there every single day, and he was fantastic. Construction Manager here was responsible for several homes in this community, and then others in another community he was assigned to. Installer was a sub-contractor that handled the carpet, tile and hardwood...at this point, I know that if the installer told the builder he’d rather not install due to conditions...he’d be out of a job.

I do have a plank left!

Some examples. I guess it didn’t like them unless I’d already saved to my phone. It’s always seemed that the finish on the sides has worn...overall, there seems to be NO finish. The builder did tell my husband that the floors would look less matte and more “shiny” after we had walked on them for a while. I don’t know about that...

OK...the 'gaps' are called bevelled edges. These edges are softly rounded on factory finished floors for the simple reason that a square edge is really really really difficult to install AND look good. What you are seeing (physical gap) is not a gap at all. It is where two sloped shoulders meet = a little valley. This is absolutely normal.

The 'no finish' on the edges is NOT NORMAL. That is a factory issue. The sloped shoulder makes it easier to install but they are slightly harder to 'stain/finish' because the brush/spray/rollers have to go AROUND a rounded shoulder...factory mechanicals do NOT like going around a corner. They like straight.

The worn finish or 'lack' of stain is a plank that should have been culled. The installer is responsible for this plank. And for all the planks that DO NOT have stain on the edges. These planks should have been sorted/culled. For this reason the manufacturer suggest 5% waste...so that the installer has extra for these 'mis-milled' planks can be tossed into the 'use in a closet/on the edge of a wall' pile.

The manufacturer is 'allowed' to have 5% milling defects. That is according to the NWFA. Anything MORE than 5% = manufacturer's responsibility to replace at no cost.

BUT (big but here) as SOON AS the defective plank is installed the manufacturer is OFF THE HOOK! And EVERYTHING falls to the installer!!!!!!

So again...here we are with fingers point to the installer AND the builder who hired him/her.

Hi!

yes, aware of the beveled edges. These are micro-beveled I believe - in the past we had the straight-edge, and then with our site-finished, obviously no spacing. These feel very wide, at least to me...super uncomfortable to walk on.

I again just think this is a bad product. Shame on the builder for offering it knowing it is bad. The inspection mentioned several planks that should have been culled - but the warranty guy said he would only replace the one that was identified as being a factory issue.

it leads me to the descriptions that Shaw uses to sell these floors...we have scuffing, dents, and chips on floors we are supposed to be able “to live on.” They’re a disaster.

The 'mirco' means depth not necessarily the width. I'm sorry you don't like bevels. They are 99% of what you find with factory finished floors. Should you ever wish to work with factory finished again, you will need to reconcile yourself to this reality.

The factory issues are the ones where the stain is missing on the edges and on the surface. After that, the only option (to save the floors) would be a sand/refinish. That may not be possible because of the thickness of the wear layer.

You can measure the surface wear layer by finding a floor vent and popping it off. To achieve a full sand/refinish you will need 3mm (or more) of the top hardwood.

Most of your fight is with the installer. The installer is an employee/contractor of the GC. That means the GC/Builder is responsible for the quality of the build...subfloor...installation.

Have you spoken with your realtor to find out what your options are?

I guess I don’t! I can tell you the veneer on these planks is razor-thin. It’s not worth sanding and finishing...I’m not sure it could even be done? there are a lot of areas where the edges are peeling. The chips, and scratches/scuffs are what irritate me the most. Everytime I look down I see a new piece missing. We have small dogs (under 20lbs, that are lazy and do not run in the house), and kids (who hide in their rooms). We shouldn’t have damage like this already. If we should have expected zero durability...we would like to have known so we could have selected an upgrade.

our realtor agrees it is ridiculous. These same floors were in the design center and we did not see any wear despite having people walking on them at all times. She just dealt with another homebuyer that the builder had upset - they haven’t closed yet, but they did a number on her house - wrong brick, wrong flooring, wrong exterior...nightmare. This builder used to have impeccable service - now it’s about money.

At this point it is going to be between you and the builder. It will be up to you to decide when to get a lawyer involved. Usually a well drafted legal letter will get the builder's attention...but it could also shut down any communication that is still occurring.

Or you could pay for the NWFA Certified flooring inspector (these guys are known to offer the best inspections because they rarely turn up 'nothing') and see if can use the inspection letter to do the same thing: get them to realize this is going to be a legal problem they cannot walk away from.

That is the plan! I still feel Shaw should stand behind their product...false advertising! :)

For the most part I concur with SJ McCarthy which is why we were asking to see the revealing photos. However, if it was the Builder who hired and directly paid the installer... the Builder is responsible for all the installer work. He failed to detect all the defects in the planks before installing and he should have put the defective ones aside to use as cut pieces to fill in or just discarded. Every manufacturer warranty I've seen has the disclaimer NOT to install defective planks as they are to be returned to the manufacturer. But once again if the defective plank is installed and/or cut it would be on the Builder who hired/paid the installer and not manufacturer. In hind sight it sounds like you might have been happier with a SPC product considering dogs, kids and rough housing. These are discussions which should take place at the concept stage with sales staff so that they could have been integrated into your solution to make the floor "USABLE" for your family. This flooring is referred to as "engineered" for a reason and a sales staff that previous held a job as hair stylist have no clue!

In my naive days the Flooring was installed by the local Flooring shop installer where the installer damage EVERY single plank used on the first level installation (about $3000 in flooring material). The shop and installer had to settle this mistake between themselves. The second time around the installer did a rush job, with many sloppy cutting errors, basic mistakes and later found out they had not even recommended the correct material to be used in direct sunlight. Needless to say they were never given the opportunity complete the install for our second level. The matter of them recommending the wrong material in the first place still remains in dispute with them to this day. Being an engineer by profession I corrected the material issues myself on the first level and then successfully fully completed the second level myself. If interested you can find my sage described earlier in this thread although it involved Mohawk and not Shaw. Although Mohawk product was used on the first level we used Shaw on the lower level because we felt the lower level would less demanding of the flooring materials (bed rooms). By the way the Shaw product we used on the lower level had less of a "micro grove" and felt more like real hardwood although I do not believe it would be as durable as the Mohawk product in a harsh/rough environment. It is critical to select the material to match the environment!

As for a good attorney, retaining one that has been through this type of situation is important. I would look for one who has had this type of case on trial and won at trail and even better if the Builder appealed and the attorney also won on appeal. I would not pick an attorney that said he would have to research first, you want one that has been around the block a couple times and had previously researched on similar case issues. This is the approach I took with a prior home where problems with the Builder occurred and where the village would not enforce their own building codes. Lastly the attorney was even creative enough to involve the IEPA with the errors the builder was making in violating codes. Beside needing to correct the original problems the builder had to pay around $10,000 in IEPA fines. A good attorney can be creative in ways to get his point across. You must select a attorney that is NOT part of the local "good old boy" system. I had to find one from out of state that just happened to be finishing up on a larger similar case in an adjacent county in my state. He had recently won at trial and on appeal. Winning at trial and on appeal goes along way in backing written claims made in a letter. You said the house had other shoddy work done, try to document this for the attorney so potentially he can tie this in for a larger settlement then just the flooring. Document, document, document!!

I'm still of the opinion that the flooring industry grossly lacks appropriate training and oversight, even the certification agencies themselves and the ENTIRE Flooring industry needs oversight and regulation! When a manufacturer of vinyl flooring states in their marketing materials that their product can be used in atriums, sun rooms and "stands up to direct sunlight" but where their warranty states "do not place in direct sun light" leaves serious questions of the potential for problems with the flooring NOT being suitable for its intended purposes.

Inform yourself through reading marketing brochures, warranties, looking at real samples and even walk, scratch, sniff, taste and apply water to the sample boards as that is what you, your spouse, kids and pets will all do at some point. Ask questions and take photograph of everything to keep these manufacturers and shops honest!!!!

Doug T has all the info needed to move forward. If you want to hold the manufacturer accountable you will probably need to look at a 'Class Action'. You can start one ($$$$$) or you can join one.

It is INTENSELY difficult to get a manufacturer held responsible for a poorly INSTALLED product. As SOON as the INSTALL is bad, they walk away. It is CLEARLY written in their warranty.

As for the hair stylist-come design dude, he really doesn't understand the real world. Too many are looking for their paycheck and not your sanity check.

I bought a Shaw carpet with a lifetime warranty from Paynes Carpet in Niagara Falls and I've had no luck with them filing a claim to Shaw for traffic area crushed and matted carpet . Started 1 week after having carpet installed even tried contacting Shaw myself but got nothing but a run around just like Paynes Carpet in Niagara Falls gave me . So don't waste your MONEY. $1155.00 later what a shame.

So the builder stopped responding...Shaw won’t answer my request to even understand the result of the claim. We have decided to install LVP over the crappy flooring, and be done with it. The builder will understand that I never forget - and will tell my story to anyone and everyone of their poor service. This isn’t our first build, and won’t be our last I’m sure...but it will be the last with them. The shoddy workmanship, and poor service was not what I expected based on past awards and reputation. I’m getting the one-year inspection done, my expected repairs, and then I will make sure that they understand just how loud an unhappy customer can be. I know the game, and will play it. Shaw won’t be installed in my home - they didn’t even give me the respect of a return call.

Never install vinyl over wood! EVER!

Rip out the wood and then pay the vinyl. If you don't, you will have more issues and costs than you thought possible. I'm not kidding! We are seeing issues with vinyl over wood floors inside of 3MONTHS!

Please be FULLY aware of how much it will cost you to save $2/sf on removal costs.

Interesting - we’ve not had anyone mention issues. What happened?

I’m having similar issues. I have filed a complaint with Shaw. They sent an inspector. The floor started showing signs of stain and finish wearing down 6 months after we moved in. The damage has increasingly got worse and additional war and damage is throughout our home. Shaw is only willing to replace one plank due to manufacturing defect in our 1900 square foot home. Their guarantee is a hoax.

That floor looks like it has been beat to hell.

Yes and it is only two years old. I’m trying to get Shaw to do something about it.

My floor has done the same as many of yours have. When the claims guy came out he just gave some lame excuse why the floor indents little lines every time you scoot out from the table, i have knots chipping out color wearing off and the middle of planks splintering up they dont honor their warranty or stand behind their product. I dont recommend!!

I purchased Shaw Timberidge Honey Walnut Vinyl Laminate Flooring in January 2021 as we were doing remodeling for my husband who is handicapped. It showed and was sold as being ADA which I told salesperson was a requirement as my husband who is a veteran would be getting a powerchair from the VA in the near future.

They chair arrived a couple months later and within 3 months the floor start getting wavy and it started peeling. I filed a complaint which was like going through a divorce. You can't talk to a human. A form has to be filled out and sent to Menards Corp office then it is forwarded to Shaw and it's reversed when a decision is made.

The decision was for a Certified Independent Flooring Inspector to come look at the floor which he did. His decision was the floor was put down wrong, the subfloor wasn't level, and there was too much furniture on it. You have to be kidding me! The flooring was put down by a company that does this daily.

The flooring replaced Shaw flooring and there was no problem with it. I didn't know you could have too much furniture. The house was built 1978 by my husband and I. We told the inspector what the flooring that came up so the Timberidge could go down.

He said flooring should have been glued down. Wish someone would have told us this, you know like putting it on the box, or in their advertisements, or by a salesperson. When it said ADA I assumed it was what I should buy as did the salesperson in two stores. Shaw said the floating flooring can't be used with a powerchair without being glued down.

I think that should be a disclaimer on their advertisement to tell people that before they invest thousands of dollars in their product. The salespersons weren't aware of it either nor was the installer. I was told I should have read the warranty that is online. Everyone should know too that they are buying waterproof flooring that can't be wet mopped.

I haven't figured how it can be sold as waterproof. I have a couple pictures of bad places and there are lots of them.

I didn't want anyone thinking I was complaining about one place. It's awful.

I don't think many people understand the glue-down vs floating issue. Unfortunately since the floating is an easier install and many folks want easy/cheap over good, that is what gets marketed. I agree it is frustrating - you really have to do a lot of research on this sort of thing now. You just can't rely on the marketing.

.My problem is it is sold as a floating floor and if a person should have to use a wheelchair they are screwed. It should be sold as a glued down floor then not a floating floor.

There are places coming up on this floor that have nothing to do with the wheelchair. When the Roomba ran today there were

places that just peeled up.

Connie Kempf; my similar issues with store, salesman, inspectors, and even manufacturer and the regional representative!!! They don't understand the engineering aspects of vinyl flooring! In my case the problem involved temperature in a HVAC control room with sunlight on the flooring. They had NO clue even though I engineered a successful solution even though they said it could not be done with vinyl!! They don't understand the specific application and the engineering aspects of vinyl flooring! You can see my nightmare earlier in this post dealing with the various industry personnel. The inspectors have a conflict of interest and are not trained well enough either. As I mentioned you can find my rant on the vinyl flooring industry earlier in this thread.

Please note, before buying one should read ALL marketing materials and WARRANTY info which is where ALL their dirty secrets are contradicted and are hidden in the fine print!!! Be forewarned you probably knew more then anyone of them combined. I believe most manufacturers do not recommend rolling loads (esp wheel chairs) and the problems are only compounded if individual is over weight and sub-floor has defects. It's my opinion, the salesman should have stopped the sale when he heard you would be running a wheel chair (esp a heavy power chair) across the floor. From my experience none of the staff to which I was exposed had any knowledge of proper application and installation of vinyl. Even in my case the first thing they blamed for flooring failure was on the sub-floor and floor joists. Reality, the sub-floor was within the flooring manufacturer published spec. Obviously since I'm not there I can't comment on your specific floor. Also note, I'm a self proclaimed vinyl installer beginner, with no prior flooring experience! (my only prior training is in electronic and computer science engineering with 45+ years experience solving engineering issues as Staff Engineer, I can now claim I have retrained myself on vinyl).

SJ McCarthy is a regular poster here and may chime in with some helpful suggestions for your situation ?

Wonder how many floors they have ever covered under warranty. Guess anyone can say a product has a 30 year warranty if they can always find a reason to get out of covering it. I asked where in the warranty it said flooring wasn't covered. They said online. That's a good place for it.

I have been reading the comments about hiring our own inspector. Shaw has already sent one and the others in the area (there are 7 for the state of Missouri) also are used by Shaw so what's the point? They have to be Independent Certified Flooring Inspectors and at this point I can't afford to be out another $700 either, but I can make people aware that they need to be aware of some of the problems others have had. Anyone can end up in a power chair and if the floor isn't glued you are screwed. So they can say whatever they want about how floor not being level. No explanation as to why their other flooring never had these problems. When you take one of their products up which was still in good shape but couldn't find a match to it and replace it with another of their products which is crap you get a little frustrated. Anyone know how to get these article to Shaw's attention? I've told them I've filed online complaints and that there are lots more.

Can anyone give me advice on what to put down for flooring that will work with power chair?

Tile is best. Here is an article for you...

https://www.allaboutmaterials.com/is-vinyl-flooring-good-for-wheelchairs

And a thread right here on HOUZZ about it.

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/2367571/what-kind-of-floors-with-wheelchair

DOnt buy your floor baseed on warranty buy your floor based upon claims filed for that company - wood flooring 2 options - buy any prefinished wood flooring from canada - Ive been in the flooring business ( grew up ) - Candian compainies are the bentley of floors ) Mirage is where you can start - call me if you need consulting - i love what I do and will guide you down teh right path - if you have a household very active and it was me I would look for flooring thats busy or is a charcahter grade - reason why - the floor is unique and due to the variances, and streaks and charachter grade the floor will and it will get scracthed over time - but you will not be able to notice the scratch or qwear and tear - sheen - very low gloss - the lower the better - reflectivity will show the wear and tear if the sheen is gloss. Prefinished or Unfinished finish on site - 99% prefinished products all come with eased edges and this will not have a visual smoothness to it - unfinished to sand in house you will get the even glass like surface where its nothing between the boards to seem its seperate or beveled - Do not buy wood from Shaw or Mohawk - they mass produce and speed is the name of their game - the milling is off the finish are never on point - my email is sfalk@chelseafloors.com feel free to email me if you have any questions

Warranty means nothing as I have learned. Do you have flooring that will hold up with a power wheelchair used on it? That is what the "floor inspector" said was part of the problem. To be covered under warranty flooring needed to be glued down. Not everyone thinks about having to get a powerchair. It's kind of hard to glue down the floor after you get a chair so you might as well kiss all that money goodbye.