Christopher, thank you for sharing your pruning practice with once-bloomers too as I've been confused about them. I'll also get Salet soon and have a few hardy repeat bloomers, but the pruning of once-bloomers mystify me (old vs. new wood). Your description of late winter/early spring pruning is most helpful indeed. As for summer pruning, when you say that you cut them back harder after the first bloom, could you please tell more about it? How hard back and what canes (main, lateral or both)? As I understand, this applies to both Salet as originally inquired about and once-bloomers too.

Brilliant pruning method and description, Christopher!

Roselady, Christopher also mentioned providing support, and I thought I'd chime in on that piece. I often insert a rebar tripod or other structure around my arching OGRs, even the smaller ones like Salet. (RdR, in contrast, is pretty compact, so I haven't offered support to that one yet.) The rebar doesn't really show through the foliage, but it makes for an interesting architectural accent in winter. You can even crown the top with a finial if it suits your taste. I like to use old doorknobs! :-) Carol

Christopher...thank you so much for that detailed description! It's good to know that Salet blooms on new wood. After cutting out all the old wood on a Fortuniana rose recently without realizing it only blooms on old wood, I'm more hesitant with my pruning.

I love these support "structures" idea you and Carol described. I've seen something similar in pictures from Mottisfont. The ones there seemed to be made with branches or willow.

vesfl -- my once-blooming oldies are limited, in that I don't have any Albas or Centifolias, and aside from a few young Damasks in pots, the two I grow are 'Botzaris' (which is rather like a very prickly stout Gallica in habit, which also fits 'Leda' and a handful of others) and 'Quatre Saisons Blanc Mousseaux'. I have a few Gallicas planted where they can sucker if they want. Then there's "Nouveau Monde -- in commerce as" and a couple other oddballs. I've lived with them for a few years now, and let them teach me. So take this with a grain of salt.

When I say I prune harder after the bloom, it's to sort of "refresh and contain" the roses. If I just dead-head the once-bloomers, they'll put out their new growth from where I cut off the faded blooms, and that new growth will continue growing, uninterrupted by a second flush, for another four or five months. I've been hypothesizing that the number of actively-growing buds is dictated by the extent of the root mass, as if the roots say "ok, we can support this many growth buds" to the top growth. That number can be contained within a few very long canes each with many active buds, or a lot of shorter canes each with fewer active buds. If you cut long canes back hard, lower growth buds which were sort of suppressed into dormancy by those higher up will sprout, making for bushier canes. If that's not enough, more new canes will emerge from the roots, and/or suckers will form. It's as if the roots say "hey, we said we could handle this many, but we're not getting as much food coming down here....do we need to send up more growth from below?" and they do.

I like the Gallicas and 'Bozaris' to be broad, bushy, and low -- maxing at about four feet tall. So after they bloom, I cut the bloomed canes down by half (even if already shortened by a third before they leafed out), remove entirely any with few or no blooms, and if two canes are too close together, I cut out entirely the one that seems less vigorous, or older. From there, they will put forth next year's blooming canes. Because my growing season is longer than yours, I anticipate how big they'll be by Winter and keep that in mind when I'm deciding how much to remove. For you, reducing their length may not be necessary -- they may have only two months of active growth after blooming before going dormant in your area. I also find that doing this prompts suckers to sprout -- if they're in the way, I remove them as I find them. Otherwise, I leave them. The Gallicas were planted where I wanted them to sucker, but 'Botzaris' suckers get in the way, so I dig them out.

Then there's "Nouveau Monde -- in commerce as" which I grow as a big climber against a raised deck railing, and a little into a tree. This rose was described by Vintage Gardens as belonging to "growth habit #3", which meant growing into a big, suckering haystack. Its main bulk fans out about fifteen feet wide and nine feet tall. All of its top-growth emerges from one cane emerging from the soil line. It has never sent up a sucker, and the only other cane it had was its original baby cane, long since pruned away. This remaining cane is over an inch in diameter now at the base. It grew up, then I turned it 45 degrees to the left, which prompted laterals, and those laterals were further turned, etc. This meant a LOT of actively-growing buds -- and probably what is suppressing the emergence of any new canes or suckers. So, in this case, I actually want to keep this situation going, because I simply can't fit any more of this rose in its spot -- new canes or suckers would not work. Before it leafs out, I just remove the dead or diseased parts, arrange the stems to where I want them to go, favor the stronger of two that are too close together, cut anything too thin to support a bloom, then snip what's left back just a bit to make it all fit. After the bloom, I cut it back harder, but only the parts extending beyond the top and sides of the railing. All the stuff below I pretty much leave.

October 2013 -- six months after coming as a band. Note the cane going up against the railing -- this was trained to the left as it continued growing. Note the new shoots that seem to be coming from the roots -- they're not. They are laterals on that cane against the railing. Note the thin, twiggy bits down front -- those are the baby canes, which I later snipped away.

Here it is in May 2014 -- baby canes still there, but all new growth you see along the railing began as laterals on that first new cane. There's also a clematis growing into it.

May 2015 -- see how laterals upon laterals are growing? I got that starting because when the laterals went up and over the railing too high, I started tucking them back down to between 45 degrees and horizontal, in the opposite direction of the cane which sprouted the lateral, prompting those laterals to make laterals, and repeat. Lots of top mass suppressed more new canes and suckering. The baby canes are still there, but I cut them off after the bloom.

April 2016 -- ok, now it's really getting huge, and still all of this is laterals upon laterals upon laterals.....from one main cane. If you look in the second pic, you can see that I've already cut the longest canes, which were long enough that they were arching toward the deck floor from their weight. Snipping them back made them stand upright. I then shortened those laterals, and trained them horizontally (or nearly so) against the top of the deck railing (after these pics were taken)

And late May 2016 -- you can see the lateral-upon-lateral effect going on.

Elsewhere, 'Duchesse d'Angouleme' (the one aka 'Wax Rose') is being trained the same way, but it's growing much more slowly than did NM-ica. Same idea, though -- one main cane, trained sideways, causing laterals to sprout, those laterals also trained sideways, those also sprouted their own laterals, etc. All that top growth is suppressing new canes and suckers below, so no worries about it taking over.

So, long story short, I prune them after learning what they want to do, what they can do, and bending that to work for what I want them to do.

:-)

~Christopher

As I said before, brilliant! :-)

Christopher you are Gift to flowers and roses. Your knowledge is way above anyone I read on threads and how you handled anything make me wonder if you are a botanist, it is a word I am looking and I can't find it .. agriculturist. You are very good and Brilliant. Glad to ' know you '.

I book mark so I can try what you did if I ran into issues. Thank you

Jin

Rose , I am so glad you you did this thread. I am sure I will ran into issues one day. Now, I learned about one time bloomers ,new wood and old wood which I have no clue.

Thank you

Jin

P.S. : Chris nice pics, roses are beautiful and breathtaking.

Christopher, I cannot thank you enough. There is so much to learn from your thoughtful approach to rose growing and the generous spirit in which you are sharing it. Many books give simple directions for how & when to prune roses based on whether they bloom on 'new' or 'old' wood, but you nicely explain the logic behind the pruning method and its timing which is much more helpful than any list of 'rules' (BTW, I noticed some discrepancies between books on pruning different rose classes). Your garden is beautiful and the way in which your lush 'Nouveau Monde' rose is overflowing with its dainty flowers onto your porch is very enchanting. Of course, it's all with your sage guidance and help. I will be growing a few climbers/ramblers next year and your illustrated post is also a great lesson in how to train them. This is definitely bookmarked. As Carol said, simply brilliant!

Christopher...let me echo the sentiments above!!! That is EXACTLY the kind of detailed advice I need! Thank you for taking them time to explain and illustrate your pruning methods. It's incredibly helpful for all rose growers, but especially people like me who've not grown many roses before.

In the past I was a rose "plunker". I'd buy a rose and then plunk it in the ground and kind of forget about it. Thankfully, because of these forums, I realized I wasn't getting the results I wanted because I wasn't giving each rose what it needed.

The great English gardener Christopher Lloyd had a saying that I love:

"Low maintenance equals low braintenance"

You really can't have a low maintenance approach if you want to get the very best from your roses :)

This is such a good thread; thank you Rosylady for starting it,and I can only heartily agree with the assessment of Christopher's advice. I wish I could post photos; I'd love to get that sort of advice on what to do about my Frederic de Prusse and General Stefanik...I guess I really sort of am a "plunker",lol. Hopefully I can turn over a new leaf. I definitely have to start experimenting more with pruning, and work on making decent support structures that won't get blown down when the fierce winds hit.