Got any pictures of the existing space? -------- New topic -------- What are your feelings about graph paper? For everyone's sake, it would work better if your room was drawn to scale. For instance, I can't tell how much room you have left on the current plumbing wall after the doorway, could be 16 feet or it could be any other distance. If you can please tell us the size of every individual segment of the walls like how much wall is to the right of the living room opening? And whether the measurements include trim? With (I guess) 30" pro range + 30" sink + 36" ref, of the (I guess) 16 feet available, 8 feet are gone to appliances and sink. It's sort of recommended to "surface" the ref so other family members or sous chefs can use it without walking behind you - so let's reverse the layout of that wall. So starting from the corner where the ref used to be, there would be a 24" cabinet, 30" range, 36" cabinet, 33" sink base, 30" cabinet, 36" + 3" for building a refrigerator surround. It's not too bad for working but it becomes a one person kitchen with an assistant. Stuff comes out of the ref, sometimes runs through a cleaning process at the sink, is chopped on the other side of the sink and thrown into a pot. Flipping stuff back and forth onto the island is a thought, but you'll still need a fatish aisle because of the dishwasher and having people bypass to do things like the dishes or setting the table. 36" of great prep space "sounds ok", but reality is it will likely contain drying dishes or the coffee pot or something - just because your wall space is so limited. And that pantry is still 19 feet away (38 feet roundtrip). If it were me, I'd be looking to move somethin'. -------- New topic -------- These are combo questions about your preferences and your budget... Can you have another sink? Not trying to sound challenging or 'nuthing but has a plumber actually looked at it? Sometimes its cheap and sometimes its not. If you liked a plan enough, would you be willing to buy the island trim kit (~ $120) for the range and an island hood (pricey)? Can you replace or fill in any of the windows? Can we fill in any of the opening to the living room? As an example of what that might do - moving a lot of the pantry to that section of wall between the living room entrance and the bow window would be nice. Are you attached to that orientation of the island? Do you want a micro, another wall oven, the miele built-in espresso maker, toaster oven, tv, or next week's winning lottery number? -------- Partial interrogation questions ------ How many family members? Do you entertain? Bake? Can? Possess a small blow torch or a 30 qt mixer? Anybody with professional level cooking skills? How big is that table? Is the 13'6" empty space on the far side of the island reserved for some purpose? Buehl's Read Me First has got a long list of questions that is good to read and at least think about. There are also walk throughs for posting pictures and other information on design topics.

Deck access has to stay where it is, got it. FYI for future projects, you can always make an opening smaller without replacing a header. You wouldn't have needed to order a custom sized door (unless you were trying not to deal with siding). So here's my idea based on the doors and windows staying in place with 2 people at home and 2 big dogs. My measurements are counter to counter, counter to fridge door (assumed 33" depth for box and doors), and counter to wall. I included a smallish coat closet by the front door. I realize that you keep most shoes and coats downstairs in the basement since you come in that way from the garage but a small coat closet upstairs would be useful for company or for other storage. Your husband will need to add a small header for this closet (I suspect this wall may not be load bearing but you'll still need a header). If you really don't need a coat closet in the front hall, add more pantry storage in its place with the fridge centered between the cabs, creating a "wall of tall" with loads of storage. If you do this, you may be able to get away without uppers on your range wall. I kept the existing doorway (but eliminated the door) so that if you're in the LR, you don't have to walk all the way down the hall, into the DR and then into the kitchen to get a beverage or snack. I'd find that a PITA. Keeping that opening also brings light into your front entry. It looks to be fairly dark with minimal views through to the back so keeping a doorway here would alleviate a tunnel feel for the space.If you can add skylights or windows into the front hallway, even better. Lastly, keeping that opening gives you 2 ways to get to the deck from the front hallway/entry. That's a plus when you have 2 big dogs who, I'm sure, have a habit of getting underfoot. ;-) I placed a 12" pull-out pantry cab between back of hall closet and fridge, pulled forward to be even with the fridge box. In the future, if you decide to opt for a counter depth fridge, you can always set this cab back against the wall. This cab between fridge and closet will allow room to open the fridge doors wide enough to pull out fridge drawers. I wouldn't go narrower than that and I might actually increase it to 15" since fridge specs do change. To give you more counter and storage space (despite its odd shape, it is a large space), I moved the clean-up sink and DW from the island to the far wall and added a prep sink to the island. This gives you a very good work triangle between fridge, pantry, prep sink and range with room to work at the island and on each side of the range. Oops, I meant to add a MW drawer to the island at the fridge end. I intentionally placed the prep sink at the right end so that you can use the left end of the island for a fridge and pantry landing zone. It will be a good place to set down bags of groceries. The island is inset from the range counter by 2" (my drawing makes it look like more than that). I had to guesstimate on the length of the island. I hope it's not less than 60" and hopefully it can be a bit longer. The distance between island and exterior wall is actually 35.7 (I rounded up). I wouldn't make this any narrower so that you can easily get from deck to fridge through this area (assuming you have a grill on the deck outside the kitchen). You didn't specify that you wanted island seating but you should be able to put 2 stools at this island. Mark it out on the floor with blue tape to see how it will lay out. I did the minimum recommended aisle of 44" behind one stool but I increased it to 50" between island and clean-up sink so it won't feel crowded when cab drawers are open. I added glass uppers on each side of the sink to create a lighter feel in the clean-up area. I don't know what kind of style you prefer but the glass can be clear, seeded, frosted, ribbed.... there are many options. Here are a few images of clean-up sinks against walls, not under windows, to inspire you: [[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/kitchens-by-julie-williams-design-traditional-kitchen-san-francisco-phvw-vp~114198) [Traditional Kitchen[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/traditional-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2107) by Novato Kitchen & Bath Designers Julie Williams Design [[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/design-build-industrial-kitchen-dc-metro-phvw-vp~931636) [Industrial Kitchen[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/industrial-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2113) by Fairfax Station Design-Build Firms Kingston Design Remodeling [[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/trish-namm-farmhouse-kitchen-new-york-phvw-vp~555498) [Farmhouse Kitchen[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/farmhouse-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2114) by Kent Kitchen & Bath Designers Trish Namm, Allied ASID - Kent Kitchen Works [[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/island-view-traditional-kitchen-boston-phvw-vp~696524) [Traditional Kitchen[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/traditional-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2107) by Boston Kitchen & Bath Designers Dalia Kitchen Design

WhostheBosch, I agree it IS a flat out gorgeous kitchen. The whole the purpose of the thread is to explore any and all solutions that would be the least destructive to all that beauty. That 20 inch aisle is really quite wacko though, and the range island is woefully out of scale and has no work room. After seven years, it is time to think of how to fix it. Loves2, An island (with reasonable aisles) can't fit without taking out the Advantium AND bumping into the breakfast room (which means moving the porch door). The alternative is Buehl's much earlier drawing of a range penninsula where the skinny penninsula is now. Buehl, appreciate your keen thoughts on deploying each inch. 42 would be better at the sink for sure. A few of you have noted that point. Well taken. Valins, the counter treatment is dicey. (Great memory on SIL Barrelhaus' kitchen BTW! She remains thrilled, and while breaking all kinds of clearance 'rules' the kitchen still works great for her and her family. A Gardenweb triumph! And what IS with my family and weird kitchen design challenges anyway...?) I could see a different counter treatment for a work island, but that still leaves seaming in the range area. Sure would be nice to somehow recycle the skinny island's 19.75 x 54 granite to left and right of the range... First thing first though. Sis needs to determine her limits - dollar and energy wise. This has been a very helpful and fruitful discussion. I know my brain got well exercised. Whatever direction she chooses, I feel pretty sure all the options have surfaced here. Just as I hoped. Thanks!!

Thank you, lharpie, funkycamper, and buehl! Lots to think about. lharpie and buehl - I think you may be right about a movable cart being better than an island. funkycamper - is that a prep sink? It had never occurred to me that my kitchen was big enough to have two sinks! I love how that layout opens up the front window area. I wonder if there is a way to add more counter space near the range? My current layout, and my prior house, both had limited counter space near the cooktop and oven and it turns into a bit of a juggling act when I am cooking a lot of dishes. Also, I apologize for leaving out the stairs to the basement on the prior plan. I love your idea of a second pantry, but because of the basement stairs, I am not sure it could go in that spot. buehl - I am adding an updated layout that has the entire first floor and I think has all the relevant dimensions. Good point about the fridge. It is currently next to a wall and that does obstruct the side door. There is an unfinished basement and I have added the stairs and access area to that. The room to the left where the basement stairs are is sort of a dead space right now. The full bath next to the kitchen needs remodeling as well, and I have thought of moving the bath closer to the basement to make more kitchen space. I am not sure that level of alteration is in my budget, however. I also have another bathroom upstairs and some exterior work to do. The main entry door on the main floor is the side door that opens to the dining room. The front door actually opens to the second floor. It is an unusual layout!